Only baptism by immersion?

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes.

Also, its self righteousness that fights always against God's Righteousness.
Its Self Righteousness that has a carnal need to try to get some of the credit for salvation, by insisting that Its NOT JUST JESUS but it has to include me, me me, me, me me, ....look at me......see what i can do.

And what legalists dont understand is when you try to add your works to the "finished work of Jesus on the Cross", you become an enemy of the Truth.
This is why Paul wrote : Galatians 1:8
To rebuke and correct and highlight these deceived people.

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but by his mercy he saved us..

what part of this do they fail to understand? What part of the tax collector went hom justified, the religious pharisee who praised all that he did and was done to him did not do they not get?

 

[April_Rose]

I was water baptized 11 years after i was born again.

Well I don't remember when exactly I became a true Christian without just calling myself one so I can't say how long I waited but it's always better late than never.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Yes,
When you are born, your mother's water, breaks, and out you come, born by water.
Thats the natural birth.
But then....Jesus says.......You must be BORN AGAIN.
And that one is a Spiritual Birth.

Water Baptism is NEITHER.

WRONG.

In John 3:5 - Jesus was answering Nicodemus's question about being Born AGAIN - NOT being born.
THIS is when he told him:
John 3:5
“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of WATER and the SPIRIT, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."

2 Chapters earlier, Jesus was Baptized - and what did we see??
WATER and the SPIRIT.

Its not a good idea to judge someone's "heart" based on if they were dunked or not.

See, you can be water baptized and go to hell.
But you can can't be born again and go to hell.
So which actually matters, in the end?

WRONG again.

The Bible warns BORN AGAIN Christians over and over NOT to fall back into darkness - lest they LOSE their security . . .
Romans 11:22
“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you REMAIN in his kindness; otherwise you to will be cut off.”
Paul is warning the faithful to REMAIN in God’s favor or they will lose their salvation. How can they lose what they never had?

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”
This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation. The Greek ford for “knowledge” used here is NOT the usual word (oida). This is talking about a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei). This verse is about CHRISTIANS who had an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.
Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei) of Christ – CHRISTIANS – who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

Matt. 5:13
You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
This one is self-explanatory . . .

1 Cor. 9:27
"I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."
Paul is saying that he wrestles with his own fleshly desires so that he might not fall back into sin.

2 Peter 3:17
Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.
Peter is warning the faithful not to fall back into sin and lawlessness.

1 John 2:24
See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. IF it does, you also will REMAIN in the Son and in the Father.
This is an admonition to try to remain faithful.

Rev. 3:5
He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.
God cannot blot out a name that was never there in the first place. He is talking about CHRISTIANS who are already saved and how they can LOSE their salvation.

Rev. 22:19
And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
How can God “take away” somebody’s “share” of heaven if they never had it to begin with? This is about CHRISTIANS who may or may NOT make it into Heaven.

 

[theefaith]

Actually yeah it is a work, you could bot circumcize yourself either, but trying to add that to the gospel paul called a gospel of works

You pastor can no more baptize you into Christ as a Jewish priest could cleans a Jewish baby by cutting his forskin

it’s the circumcision otero baptism done by the hand of God which saved, the spiritual baptism

water baptism gets you wet, not saved,

you are rejecting scripture?

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

 

[theefaith]

Umm ... the word actually MEANS immersion.

G907 βαπτίζω baptízō, bap-tid'-zo; from a derivative of G911; to immerse, submerge;

that’s the preferred method but not the only acceptable method

 

[theefaith]

Romans 3:27-31 NLT - "Can we boast, then, that we have done anything to be accepted by God? No, because our acquittal is not based on obeying the law. It is based on faith. So we are made right with God through faith and not by obeying the law. After all, is God the God of the Jews only? Isn't he also the God of the Gentiles? Of course he is. There is only one God, and he makes people right with himself only by faith, whether they are Jews or Gentiles. Well then, if we emphasize faith, does this mean that we can forget about the law? Of course not! In fact, only when we have faith do we truly fulfill the law."

No, nothing worldly, no worldly act can justify us to God. Paul is conclusively saying that no act of the Law can redeem us from the Sinful Nature and subsequent sins. This means that even physical circumcision does nothing, nor does it's brother, Baptism. Neither physical circumcision or baptism can save a person, for these are mere reflections of the exact same thing . . . Circumcision of Heart. - It is so clear, that Salvation is the free gift of God, issuing the New Heart and Spirit, a Spirit who causes us to obey and be Justified before and to the Lord. Without Circumcision of Heart, no one can come to the Lord and become His Child. The fact that verse 29 indicates that God is also the God of the Gentiles, who do not practice physical circumcision, this too proves that physical circumcision counts for nothing, nor does water baptism.

If there is nothing we can do then all men are saved?

God is who baptized us!


Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Baptism that’s not what the Bible says

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

 

[theefaith]

The Blood of Jesus, Faith, and the Holy Spirit, are necessary for Salvation.
Water and works need not apply for those positions.

you are in the church and put in Christ by “faith alone”?


1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

 

[theefaith]

You can't be born again by the city water supply.
Wake up.

You cannot be born again by faith alone!
A doctrine never heard of for 1500 yrs
Never taught by the church of Christ

Context of Jn 3:5 “born again”

John1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; (John prepared the way by baptism)

John 2:6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. (Old covenant prefiguring of baptism, purification from sin)(His disciples believed because the ever Virgin mother of God interceded Jn 2:11)

John3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Baptism)

John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.(Baptism)

John 4:4 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John.

Born again means Baptismal regeneration!

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

Since I arrived here several months ago, you have shown a remarkable tenacity regarding water baptism. I actually respect the fact that you are not backing down. So . . . I'm willing to listen to you, as you have earned it.

Can you give me the greatest bible verse, or a sequential set of verses, that prove water baptism . . . and let's start there. I'm willing to make this thread the focus of my immediate attention. If you would, though, please refrain from page after page of verses . . . I am super busy and won't read them. But, if we can just take one or two verses at a time, my little brain can handle that.

What do you think?

 

[atpollard]

that’s the preferred method but not the only acceptable method

“Acceptable” according to whom?

God accepted the thief with no water.
The Apostles told everyone else to “immerse” themselves.

Salvation is from the LORD. Do what He commands you, or don’t ... but that is between you and Him.

[Romans 14:1-4 NASB]
Now accept the one who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions. One person has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only. The one who eats is not to regard with contempt the one who does not eat, and the one who does not eat is not to judge the one who eats, for God has accepted him. Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.​

... no less true of Baptism.

 

[Enoch111]

You cannot be born again by faith alone!

And you cannot be born again by H2O either. Kindly read and study John 1:12,13 and 1 Peter 1:23-25. It is the Gospel which is the seed of the New Birth, and water is a metaphor for the Word of God (the Gospel). This is the "clean water" mentioned in Ezekiel 36.

That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the Word (Eph 5:26)

 

[atpollard]

You cannot be born again by faith alone!
A doctrine never heard of for 1500 yrs
Never taught by the church of Christ

[Romans 10:6-13 NASB]
6 But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: "DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, 'WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?' (that is, to bring Christ down), 7 or 'WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?' (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead)." 8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus [as] Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same [Lord] is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."


[Ephesians 2:1-10 NASB]
1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

 

[atpollard]

Can you give me the greatest bible verse, or a sequential set of verses, that prove water baptism . . . and let's start there.

Prove what? That water baptism exists?

[Matthew 3:13-17 NASB]
13 Then Jesus arrived from Galilee at the Jordan [coming] to John, to be baptized [G907] by him. 14 But John tried to prevent Him, saying, "I have need to be baptized [G907] by You, and do You come to me?" 15 But Jesus answering said to him, "Permit [it] at this time; for in this way it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness." Then he permitted Him. 16 After being baptized, [G907] Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove [and] lighting on Him, 17 and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased."​

G907 βαπτίζω baptízō, bap-tid'-zo; from a derivative of G911; to immerse, submerge; to make whelmed (i.e. fully wet)

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

Prove what? That water baptism exists?

Thanks!

 

[theefaith]

“Acceptable” according to whom?

God accepted the thief with no water.
The Apostles told everyone else to “immerse” themselves.

Salvation is from the LORD. Do what He commands you, or don’t ... but that is between you and Him.

[Romans 14:1-4 NASB]
Now accept the one who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions. One person has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only. The one who eats is not to regard with contempt the one who does not eat, and the one who does not eat is not to judge the one who eats, for God has accepted him. Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.​

... no less true of Baptism.

spiritual anarchy
You have your own covenant I suppose
Acceptable to the church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles who have the jurisdictional authority to decide. Matt 16:18 18:18 Jn 20:21-23

the thief: baptism and the new covenant are not established until His death on the cross

 

[theefaith]

And you cannot be born again by H2O either. Kindly read and study John 1:12,13 and 1 Peter 1:23-25. It is the Gospel which is the seed of the New Birth, and water is a metaphor for the Word of God (the Gospel). This is the "clean water" mentioned in Ezekiel 36.

That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the Word (Eph 5:26)

yes faith and baptism according to Christ and scripture Mk 16:16 acts 8

 

[theefaith]

And you cannot be born again by H2O either. Kindly read and study John 1:12,13 and 1 Peter 1:23-25. It is the Gospel which is the seed of the New Birth, and water is a metaphor for the Word of God (the Gospel). This is the "clean water" mentioned in Ezekiel 36.

That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the Word (Eph 5:26)

but you are not free to believe whatever you like only what God has revealed

taught Matt 28:19 Lk 1:1-4

Acts 2:42

JUSTIN MARTYR
“As many as are persuaded and believe that what we [Christians] teach and say is true, and undertake to be able to live accordingly . . . are brought by us where there is water, and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated. For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water. For Christ also said, ‘Except you be born again, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven’ [John 3:3]” (First Apology 61 [A.D. 151]).

TERTULLIAN
“Happy is our sacrament of water, in that, by washing away the sins of our early blindness, we are set free and admitted into eternal life. . . . [But] a viper of the [Gnostic] Cainite heresy, lately conversant in this quarter, has carried away a great number with her most venomous doctrine, making it her first aim to destroy baptism—which is quite in accordance with nature, for vipers and.asps . . . themselves generally do live in arid and waterless places. But we, little fishes after the example of our [Great] Fish, Jesus Christ, are born in water, nor have we safety in any other way than by permanently abiding in water. So that most monstrous creature, who had no right to teach even sound doctrine, knew full well how to kill the little fishes—by taking them away from the water!” (Baptism 1 [A.D. 203]).

“Without baptism, salvation is attainable by none” (ibid., 12).

ORIGEN
“It is not possible to receive forgiveness of sins without baptism” (Exhortation to the Martyrs 30 [A.D. 235]).


CYRIL OF JERUSALEM
“If any man does not receive baptism, he does not have salvation.

St. AUGUSTINE
“There are three ways in which sins are forgiven: in baptism, in prayer, and in the greater humility of penance; yet God does not forgive sins except to the baptized” (Sermons to Catechumens on the Creed 7:15 [A.D. 395]).

POPE LEO I
“And because of the transgression of the first man, the whole stock of the human race was tainted; no one can be set free from the state of the old Adam save through Christ’s sacrament of baptism, in which there are no distinctions between the reborn, as the apostle [Paul] says, ‘For as many of you as were baptized in Christ did put on Christ; there is neither Jew nor Greek . . . ‘ [Gal. 3:27–28]” (Letters 15:10[11] [A.D. 445]).

FULGENTIUS OF RUSPE
“From that time at which our Savior said, ‘If anyone is not reborn of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven’ [John 3:5], no one can, without the sacrament of baptism, except those who, in the Catholic Church, without baptism, pour out their blood for Christ, receive the kingdom of heaven and life eternal” (The Rule of Faith 43 [A.D. 524]).

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

the thief: baptism and the new covenant are not established until His death on the cross

How were people in the Old Testament saved? We're supposed to have the same Faith as Abraham, so what Faith is that? What, exactly, is the Blessing? This is the same Blessing that the Gentiles received, so we know it cannot be the physical Holy Land. What, then, is it?

Romans 4:12 NLT - "And Abraham is also the spiritual father of those who have been circumcised, but only if they have the same kind of faith Abraham had before he was circumcised."
Galatians 3:9 NLT - "So all who put their faith in Christ share the same blessing Abraham received because of his faith."

 

[theefaith]

[Romans 10:6-13 NASB]
6 But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: "DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, 'WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?' (that is, to bring Christ down), 7 or 'WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?' (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead)." 8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus [as] Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same [Lord] is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."


[Ephesians 2:1-10 NASB]
1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

so you agree that t CANNOT be “faith alone”

Romans 10:10
For with the heart man believeth untorighteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

eph 2 refers to redemption accomplished by Christ not justification or salvation

 

[Behold]

WRONG.

In John 3:5 - Jesus was answering Nicodemus's question about being Born AGAIN - NOT being born.
THIS is when he told him:
John 3:5
“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of WATER.

Yes, let me paraphase all that for you.


N: says..... Lord you want me to be born again? How do i, as a grown adult, go back into my mother's womb and come out again? How is that possible, Im confused. ?

Jesus: says.....>"no, i dont mean that type natural birth........i mean that you have been born naturally , birthed by your mother, when her water broke, but now to enter the Kingdom of God, a 2nd birth is necesssary, a SPIRITUAL BIRTH.......that births you INTO my Spiritual Kingdom,.... you have to be born again SPIRITUALLY into THE Kingdom of God, , which is the 2nd Birth., or BORN AGAIN. a 2nd time, Spiritually.