Bible Translation Study

[Mayflower]

With all due respect to the KJV only people, I learned it rather quickly without attending seminary. Any moderate study of the original languages will reveal it fairly quickly, and it's not as if I had any bias going in. Just that the TR is so obviously flawed that one can't help noticing it.

TR is translator?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I wonder if the people who canonized thought of that also.

If I remember right the people who canonized scripture did so centuries after it was done.

To me I am sure the living church knew what was scripture and what was not long before this..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I can't even find your post now @Paul Christensen . My thought is if the Bible is God-breathed, He wouldn't use a non Christian to write His Word. It wouldn't be worship in the Spirit.

amen to this

 

[Eternally Grateful]

And you admit to committing willful sins of lawlessness?

If I claim to be without sin, I am deceived and there is no truth in me

Sin is sin is sin. Your little oopsie makes you just as guilty as the adulterer in the eyes of a perfect and holy God.

My Prayer is that you soon realize this.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

TR is translator?

TR is textus receptus. The greek text used in the KJV translation

 

[Hidden In Him]

TR is translator?

Textus Receptus, the Greek from which the King James Bible was translated.

Kind of a long story, but I take the same position as Berserk does, who is Oxford educated. Not that I am influenced by scholarship myself - tend to throw out all opinions and start from scratch in coming to my conclusions - but my conclusions often end up being the same as those who have education behind them, at least on matters like this.

 

[Hidden In Him]

TR is textus receptus. The greek text used in the KJV translation

Sorry, didn't realize you answered it already.

Thanks.

 

[CharismaticLady]

One of the first things a student learns at ANY seminary, evangelical or liberal, is how corrupt the Hebrew and Greek texts used by the KJV translators really is. This corruption is the inevitable result of its use of the latest manuscripts which display many centuries of accumulating copy errors. The KJV also contains translation errors, but those are the least of its problems.
The best strategy for the layman is to have one modern literal translation (e. g. NIV) and one more understandable and readable paraphrase translation. Then you can check whether the insights gleaned from the paraphrase still hold up in the literal translation.

Hi B,
You might want to choose another instead of NIV because that is not a literal translation, i.e., word for word, but is actually a thought for thought translation. I would have suggested NASB but have found that instead of word for word, they have corrupted the text intentionally by adding a word, like "practice" and have actually watered down God's holiness. I prefer the NKJV that gives us the most of God's Word without deleting crucial words, plus The Living Bible as the paraphrase. And the Young's literal translation to confirm only. The man that wrote the Living Bible seems to have been a true man of God and didn't have an agenda to create doctrines according to his human reasoning like those of the NASB group.

 

[Mayflower]

TR is textus receptus. The greek text used in the KJV translation

Thank you. Im learning more speaking up. I prolly get lost on terms more then anything else.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Sorry, didn't realize you answered it already.

Thanks.

no problem..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Thank you. Im learning more speaking up. I prolly get lost on terms more then anything else.

no problem at all. Keep asking

 

[CharismaticLady]

One man instead of the election process soon after?

If you trust that one man, yes. When you have a group, you may have a worm in that apple.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I can't even find your post now @Paul Christensen . My thought is if the Bible is God-breathed, He wouldn't use a non Christian to write His Word. It wouldn't be worship in the Spirit.

#37

 

[Mayflower]

I have grown in my Christian walk just teaching my own children and assisting at preschool God's Word. It is more evangelism and teaching them His great love for them, but I love just reading them this translation.

 

[Jay Ross]

Rest Your case?

I never made an argument it should not be changed. I did the opposite. I said to look at context. Then said to look at the definition of the original word. (my response was not even concerning that verse. it was about what happened at the cross)

You should try to understand and not just make assumptions. Because you were wrong in your assumption (you know what you do when you Assume?)

In the case of the water, Turmoil would be more applicable than an earthquake. so I would agree with you here

Please pay more attention when you respond.

If you had stopped and considered my post, I stated that you had given the usual argument that I receive against translating "Seismos" as turmoil rather than earthquake. I also gave examples where the translation of "seismos" as earthquake is illogical. I had also presented the context and the meaning of the Greek word “seisomos” as snips off of my computer screen as insertions in my first post, #14

Let us consider, as an example, the seventh Bowl Judgement as recorded by John in Rev 16:17-21 and consider the historical markers given in verse 19.

Revelation 16:18-19: - 18 And there were noises and thunderings and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake/turmoil, such a mighty and great earthquake/turmoil as had not occurred since men were on the earth. 19 Now (the first historical marker) the great city was divided into three parts, and (the second historical marker during this time period) the cities of the nations fell. And (the third historical marker) great Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath.​

The first historical marker is 1948, when the UN divided Jerusalem into three distinct districts, under the control of Britain, Jordan and the UN itself.

The second historical marker is associated with the cities around Jerusalem being captured by the British and Australian campaigns in the Middle East during WW1.

The third historical marker is associated with the establishment of Iraq in 1926 when Britain and France divided up the Middle East between them because of the Oil that was found there.​

Now these three historical markers occurred during the 20th century. Also, during this time period, the world was in turmoil because of the First and Second World Wars. Yes, there were earthquakes occurring during this period, but the magnitude and consequences of earthquakes start to increase towards the later part of the 20th century. The last two verses of the 7th bowl judgement also confirm this understanding where it speaks of the plague of great hailstones falling from heaven: -

Revelation 16:20-21: - 20 Then every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. 21 And great hail from heaven fell upon men, each hailstone about the weight of a talent. Men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail, since that plague was exceedingly great.​

Sadly, many are looking for physical earthquakes as the signs given in the scriptures that will occur during the end times. Yes earthquakes are occurring and the number of larger magnitude quakes is presently increasing, but this is within the context of the creation groaning because of the sins of the people of the earth. It can be shown that the phenomena of the climatic temperature increase of the earth is prophetically predicted, and a consequence of the bulk temperature of the earth increasing is an increase in the number of earthquakes and volcanoes occurring as a means of relieving the increasing internal pressures within the earth.

If we are to be consistent with the translated meaning of the Greek word “seismos” in the New Testament, then it is my view that “seismos” should be translated as “turmoil” wherever it is found in the Greek text.

This is not the only translation flaw that I am aware of. Another if the use of the English word, “forever” where the Hebrew words have a finite meaning and not an infinite meaning is time as the English Word “forever” conveys. This has led to a wrong understanding with respect to the length of time that Israel will have possession of the “Promised Land.” The Promised Land as set out in Genesis 15 is a solemn confirmation covenant undertaking by God that when Abraham’s descendants have possession and dominion over the described, that they can also believe that at some point in the future, they will also be given possession of the whole earth.

Christians believe that we will be given possession of the whole earth during Eternity, and the same promise was made to Abraham and His descendants as well. Daniel 7:27 confirms this.

Understanding the “flaws” in the scripture and the changes needed to correct these misunderstandings is becoming more and more important for us as we approach the seventh, i.e. the Millennium, Age of the existence of mankind as they are leading us into sin.

Shalom

 

[marks]

Currently we're all so focused on covid as a prophetic indicator, has anyone noticed the last months figures for earthquakes? There have been a series of deep very serious earthquakes all around the Pacific and through Indonesia. So deep the damage was minimal... But concerning nevertheless. The prophetic indicator on the second coming will soon be running concurrently, with intensity and increasing frequency. We are going to be witnessing some serious crisis throughout the globe in the immediate future. Spiritual sleeping is not an option.

This is clearly a time to be wide awake!

Much love!

 

[Mayflower]

Sadly, many are looking for physical earthquakes as the signs given in the scriptures that will occur during the end times. Yes earthquakes are occurring and the number of larger magnitude quakes is presently increasing, but this is within the context of the creation groaning because of the sins of the people of the earth. It can be shown that the phenomena of the climatic temperature increase of the earth is prophetically predicted, and a consequence of the bulk temperature of the earth increasing is an increase in the number of earthquakes and volcanoes occurring as a means of relieving the increasing internal pressures within the earth.

If we are to be consistent with the translated meaning of the Greek word “seismos” in the New Testament, then it is my view that “seismos” should be translated as “turmoil” wherever it is found in the Greek text.

This is the part that stuck out. Good food for thought.

 

[Berserk]

Hi B,
You might want to choose another instead of NIV because that is not a literal translation, i.e., word for word, but is actually a thought for thought translation. I would have suggested NASB but have found that instead of word for word, they have corrupted the text intentionally by adding a word, like "practice" and have actually watered down God's holiness. I prefer the NKJV that gives us the most of God's Word without deleting crucial words, plus The Living Bible as the paraphrase. And the Young's literal translation to confirm only. The man that wrote the Living Bible seems to have been a true man of God and didn't have an agenda to create doctrines according to his human reasoning like those of the NASB group.

The NKJV is more readable than the old KJV, but is almost as corrupt because it still uses the error-filled Textus Receptus. The NIV is not really a paraphrase, but a dynamic equivalent translation, very faithful to the original languages. The best and most readable paraphrase translation is the New Living Translation, which is more faithful to the original languages than The Living Bible. In my Bible studies, I ask members to bring their own Bible. Then they each read aloud their version and I explain what the original Greek and Hebrew mean. They judge New Living Translation to be the most readable and understandable.

 

[Paul Christensen]

I can't even find your post now @Paul Christensen . My thought is if the Bible is God-breathed, He wouldn't use a non Christian to write His Word. It wouldn't be worship in the Spirit.

My point is that theological bias is always an issue when translating or interpreting Scripture.

A glaring example is Church History, where the miraculous has been excluded by most historians to make it appear that the miraculous happened only in the Apostolic Age and ceased afterward. Satan will do anything to suppress the miraculous works of God in any age because he knows that when the miraculous is linked with the gospel, people come to Christ in droves. An intellectual Christianity based on literature is no threat to him at all.

The secular historian, Ramsay McMullen, wrote a non-religious history called "The Christianizing of the Roman Empire" where he included all the miraculous events that religious historians left out. This is because he had no Cessationist bias. He researched and wrote his history exactly how it was, and not through the Cessationist filter of most religious church historians.

It is interesting to note that the earliest Greek manuscript that we have is from the 4th Century - when the active involvement of the Holy Spirit had largely disappeared from the church in general, and the church had changed from being Spirit-led, to literature-based. So, it can be argued that subsequent translations of Scripture were done by people who were literature-based than Spirit-led. This could very well mean that their translations would be basically no different than what a secular translator would do with the same resources.

 

[Paul Christensen]

I can't even find your post now @Paul Christensen . My thought is if the Bible is God-breathed, He wouldn't use a non Christian to write His Word. It wouldn't be worship in the Spirit.

Here it is: Bible Translation Study