Christian "gay Bashing"

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Foreigner

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"There is a difference between telling people to 'sin no more' and condemning their personal sin by name." - Aspen

-- Just how are they going to know if what they are doing if no one points it out? Most people today do not think that their actions are sin.




"Jesus, Paul and the disciples condemned sin in general" - Aspen

-- Paul, in his letters, spoke about specific sin more than once, INCLUDING homosexual activity BY NAME. You need to check your facts a little better.




"We are supposed to let people know that sin is something we need to repent of and then let the Holy Spirit convict their hearts of the specific sin." - Aspen

-- We are supposed to let people know that Jesus loves them, died for them and then help them understand why they must get rid of the sin that is in their lives.






"In fact, pointing out specific personal sin is actually contrary to the gospel" - Aspen

-- You my friend have some scriptural reading to do. There is nothing in the Bible to support the position you claim.





"Shame is not good - it is felt when a person has already repented" - Aspen

-- Are you kidding? The repentence of sin and having it washed away by Jesus' blood removes feelings of shame, guilt, conviction, embarassment, etc.
I don't know where you are getting your information but it isn't the Bible.



Aspen, might I ask...do you think Homosexual activity is a sin?
 

aspen

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"There is a difference between telling people to 'sin no more' and condemning their personal sin by name." - Aspen

-- Just how are they going to know if what they are doing if no one points it out? Most people today do not think that their actions are si
n.

I thought I was clear when I stated that the Holy Spirit will convict their hearts - I hope you are not denying the power of the Holy Spirit??

"Jesus, Paul and the disciples condemned sin in general" - Aspen

-- Paul, in his letters, spoke about specific sin more than once, INCLUDING homosexual activity BY NAME. You need to check your facts a little better.


You need to re-read my statement, I said that Jesus, Paul and the disciples condemned sin in general. Now what does in general mean? It can mean calling all individual sin by the term 'sin' and it can also mean listing specific sin, without assigning them to an individual. An example of speaking about Christmas in general might look like "Christmas decorations include a pine tree, lights, candles, etc", without getting specific about who needs to use these decorations in their celebration.

"We are supposed to let people know that sin is something we need to repent of and then let the Holy Spirit convict their hearts of the specific sin." - Aspen

-- We are supposed to let people know that Jesus loves them, died for them and then help them understand why they must get rid of the sin that is in their lives.


We agree. Speaking generally, we need to let people know that they are no longer slaves to their sin - they are now free to behave in a manner that is not self destructive. We are in fact called to repent - change the direction we seek our happiness from. Now longer do we have to lust - Christ calls us to have meaningful and deep relationships within the marriage covenant. No longer do we need to be slaves to our consumer culture because Jesus is the never ending well - we will never thirst again!

"In fact, pointing out specific personal sin is actually contrary to the gospel" - Aspen

-- You my friend have some scriptural reading to do. There is nothing in the Bible to support the position you claim.


When taken out of context, my statement is not supported - but when you continue reading you find out that I am comparing pointing out personal sin with pride and shame - it is indeed supported by the Bible.

"Shame is not good - it is felt when a person has already repented" - Aspen

-- Are you kidding? The repentence of sin and having it washed away by Jesus' blood removes feelings of shame, guilt, conviction, embarassment, etc.
I don't know where you are getting your information but it isn't the Bible.


Really? And yet, my kids are going to college because my private practice is filled with Christians who still carry shame, despite the fact they have repented from their sins.....hmmm. Maybe people still have a hard time forgiving themselves for things they have done or things that have happened to them......they sure doesn't sound like guilt, which was given to us with the Law......it must be shame, a grossly exaggerated form of guilt that is not motivating, not helpful, and not an accurate picture of a person's condition before God.

Aspen, might I ask...do you think Homosexual activity is a sin?


Homosexuality is a sin. We are living with a lot of sin in the end times. Consumerism, political corruption, arrogance, greed, willful destruction of the earth, etc. Part of living in modern society is living with sin in our lives. Many sins are so entrenched in everyday life, we cannot avoid it. So what is sin? Sin is the misuse of creation. Homosexuality, infidelity, sadomasochism, pedophilia, rape, dominating one partner in marriage, refusal to be intimate in marriage, withholding sex in marriage, are all examples of sin - but why are they bad? They are bad because they rob the person or people from the benefits of God's ideal relationship. Therefore, people who sin need help realizing that God has something better in mind for them not that they are depraved, and are somehow hurting God with their behavior. Did God have something better in mind for homosexuals - yes! Does that guarantee that they will ever experience something better outside of a homosexual union - nope. A homosexual union, might just be the closest they are going to get to God's ideal - and denying it is only going to make them miserable. Does that mean that all homosexuals need to give up and live a homosexual lifestyle - no! They are called to struggle with it - all heterosexual should thank God they do not struggle with such a horrific burden. Viewing personal sin in others is only possible so that we can develop empathy, not condemnation.

Peace
 

religusnut

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My only question left is why are those professing to be Christian so infatuated with homosexuality?
 

aspen

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My only question left is why are those professing to be Christian so infatuated with homosexuality?



I have the same question. For my part, I am infatuated with promoting empathy (not acceptance of the sin) for people who struggle with homosexuality. I am a bit surprised that you are asking this question since the entire reason I got involved in this discussion started when I saw certain Christians singling out the sin of homosexuality from other sins and condemning it. My guess about why this is true is that homosexuality is one of the only sins that is not tempting to everyone so it is often singled out by people who are not tempted by it. I kind of feel like we have been singing "there's a hole in the bucket"

 

religusnut

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I have the same question. For my part, I am infatuated with promoting empathy (not acceptance of the sin) for people who struggle with homosexuality. I am a bit surprised that you are asking this question since the entire reason I got involved in this discussion started when I saw certain Christians singling out the sin of homosexuality from other sins and condemning it. My guess about why this is true is that homosexuality is one of the only sins that is not tempting to everyone so it is often singled out by people who are not tempted by it. I kind of feel like we have been singing "there's a hole in the bucket"

Every time I looked this thread was on Homosexuality. If we were on a thread on say stealing then we would be discussing the sin of stealing. HOEWVER, this thread was on homosexuality and of course it was to paint those that disagree with it as the mean old Christians.
 

aspen

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Every time I looked this thread was on Homosexuality. If we were on a thread on say stealing then we would be discussing the sin of stealing. HOEWVER, this thread was on homosexuality and of course it was to paint those that disagree with it as the mean old Christians.

I didn't start the thread. Also, Christians need to look at themselves and discover how they can best witness Christ - there is no condemnation here - just a chance to refine our witnessing skills. Do you have a hard time accepting constructive criticism?
 

Martin W.

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Every time I looked this thread was on Homosexuality. If we were on a thread on say stealing then we would be discussing the sin of stealing. HOEWVER, this thread was on homosexuality and of course it was to paint those that disagree with it as the mean old Christians.

That's how I read it too.
 

marksman

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I have the same question. For my part, I am infatuated with promoting empathy (not acceptance of the sin) for people who struggle with homosexuality. I am a bit surprised that you are asking this question since the entire reason I got involved in this discussion started when I saw certain Christians singling out the sin of homosexuality from other sins and condemning it. My guess about why this is true is that homosexuality is one of the only sins that is not tempting to everyone so it is often singled out by people who are not tempted by it. I kind of feel like we have been singing "there's a hole in the bucket"

One of the problems that we face with homosexuality since governments have caved in to the militant homosexuals, it is in your face. I wrote elsewhere that the day will come that you won't be able to get a job unless you are a homosexual. In the UK as of this year, if you are a homosexual you can adopt children. If you are a christian, you can't.

Having pushed their agenda onto an unwilling society, we have three choices. Ignore it, which is nigh impossible, speak the truth about it or embrace it. Some churches have done the second and some have taken the third course. That being the case, you are up against it as the gaystapo are very deft at making accusations like "this denomination embraces homosexuality, so you must be bigoted and intollerant because you don't."

We are not going to make friends by pointing out any sin, so we have to grin and bear it. If it is not that they will find something else to critisize. Speak the truth in love and yoou won't go far wrong.
 

aspen

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One of the problems that we face with homosexuality since governments have caved in to the militant homosexuals, it is in your face. I wrote elsewhere that the day will come that you won't be able to get a job unless you are a homosexual. In the UK as of this year, if you are a homosexual you can adopt children. If you are a christian, you can't.

Having pushed their agenda onto an unwilling society, we have three choices. Ignore it, which is nigh impossible, speak the truth about it or embrace it. Some churches have done the second and some have taken the third course. That being the case, you are up against it as the gaystapo are very deft at making accusations like "this denomination embraces homosexuality, so you must be bigoted and intollerant because you don't."

We are not going to make friends by pointing out any sin, so we have to grin and bear it. If it is not that they will find something else to critisize. Speak the truth in love and yoou won't go far wrong.


Christians cannot adopt children in Britain? I find that hard to believe. Also - how is 6 to 10% of the country (homosexuals - the only people who will be able to work) going to run Britain??? This sounds like fear mongering to me......

 

religusnut

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Christians cannot adopt children in Britain? I find that hard to believe. Also - how is 6 to 10% of the country (homosexuals - the only people who will be able to work) going to run Britain??? This sounds like fear mongering to me......


:D Ye facts always appear as fear mongering. We in the US right now are headed that way and of course it is fear mongering. I remember 15 or so years ago we were teaching and talking about one world government and that was "fear mongering". Today it is happening at an alarming rate even in America and it is quite obvious to those that have eyes to see and ears to hear and for many it is still fear mongering......
 

aspen

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:D Ye facts always appear as fear mongering. We in the US right now are headed that way and of course it is fear mongering. I remember 15 or so years ago we were teaching and talking about one world government and that was "fear mongering". Today it is happening at an alarming rate even in America and it is quite obvious to those that have eyes to see and ears to hear and for many it is still fear mongering......

I remember when black people stood up for their rights by refusing to sit in the back of the bus - the majority of white people viewed it as a hostile act. So, pardon me for questioning your 'facts' - I will need more than your blessing before I believe Christians can no longer adopt in England.
 

aspen

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I just did some research on a high profile court case in England - apparently, there is a family that has been providing foster care to children for 20 years; they requires their foster children to go to church with them and have refused to talk about homosexuality as an alternative lifestyle. As a result, they have been refused as foster parents - they are currently in court to fight for their rights to foster children.

In this case, there has truly been a violation of the rights of the parents. There is no possible way these parents should be banned from fostering children and should be re-instated immediately. I find this case to be a shocking example of prejudice and realize that I was too quick to dismiss the possibility that it was actually happening. It just goes to show that we all must be vigilant about looking out for violation of individual rights.

Peace
 

Foreigner

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"I thought I was clear when I stated that the Holy Spirit will convict their hearts - I hope you are not denying the power of the Holy Spirit??" - aspen

-- What a silly thing to say. No one denies the power of the Holy Spirit but the Bible doesn't call on people to not witness and hope that the person is convicted.


""You need to re-read my statement, I said that Jesus, Paul and the disciples condemned sin in general." - aspen

-- And as I pointed out, they ALSO listed specific types of sin. Are you saying that Paul is going against what God wants by not waiting for the "Holy Spirit to convic their hearts?"
Is Paul "denying the power of the Holy Spirit??"



"it promotes pride on the part of the person who is witnessing and shame on the part of the person being witnessed to." - aspen

-- If the person is truly a Christian then pride is not 'promoted.' Their motivation is love and a desire to help and pride will not be "promoted."
When a person turns from their sin, repents, seeks God's forgiveness and is washed clean, shame is no longer a part of them.
How can you say that the Holy Spirit will 'convict' so no one needs to have their sins pointed out, but the Holy Spirit will not wipe away feelings of shame. You make no sense.



"Really? And yet, my kids are going to college because my private practice is filled with Christians who still carry shame, despite the fact they have repented from their sins." - aspen

-- Pretending for a moment that that statement even makes sense, if a person still feels guilt or shame about sin after they have sought forgiveness from Jesus and have been washed clean, that is an issue with the individual, not a matter of Jesus not wiping away guilt and sin.
Many times it is because the person has sought forgiveness but still has not turned away from their sin. The Holy Spirit is the great healer. He WILL ALWAYS wipe away all guilt and shame if people are truly repentent and ask His forgiveness. It really is that simple.



"it must be shame, a grossly exaggerated form of guilt that is not motivating, not helpful, and not an accurate picture of a person's condition before God." - aspen

-- Exactly. And that is why, if they truly are seeking forgiveness and repent of their sins, God forgives and wipes away all guilt and shame.
If the person chooses to hold onto it then they are choosing not to let God work fully in their lives.



"Did God have something better in mind for homosexuals - yes! Does that guarantee that they will ever experience something better outside of a homosexual union - nope." - aspen

-- Apparently God doesn't actually work miracles in your book.



"A homosexual union, might just be the closest they are going to get to God's ideal" - aspen

-- So your saying that the closest "ideal" relationship that a Christian who serves Christ with his whole heart may have to settle for..............................is a relationship that runs completely counter to God's will?
Amazing...simply amazing.
Again limiting what God can/will do in a person's life. What you believe is definitely not a doctrine of victory through Christ.







"My only question left is why are those professing to be Christian so infatuated with homosexuality?" - Religusnut


-- Hmmm. I don't know. Could it be because homosexuals are:

1. Attacking Christians for their believe that homosexuality is a sin and is counter to God's will, calling them 'bigots' 'homophobes' ' zealots' etc. etc. etc.
2. Attempting to get hate crime legislation passed making it illegal to quote the Bible in witnessing about homosexuality, seeking fines or imprisonment for those who do so.
3. Pushing homosexual lifestyle indoctrination in schools, even as early as kindergarten while at the same time working to remove the parent's right of notification or opting out of that instruction.
4. Pushing gay marraige and actively harassing and posting personal information of those that oppose or give to causes that oppose that agenda.
5. Actively moving in certain "Christian" churches to allow for the ordination of pastors that are homosexuals and are practing homosexual acts.

You will notice that the discussion and interaction among Christians and others has been proportionate to the push that the gay community has put forth over the last seeral years.

Christians - besides working to help homosexuals receive healing and deliverance - are literally fighting for the right to continue to practice their religion freely.
If the homosexual community has its way, even speaking a negative word against homosexuality will be a crime. CRIME. C-R-I-M-E. punishable by fine or even imprisonment.

"Infatuation" actually means "responsibility" and a sense of "self-preservation."
 

aspen

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"I thought I was clear when I stated that the Holy Spirit will convict their hearts - I hope you are not denying the power of the Holy Spirit??" - aspen


-- What a silly thing to say. No one denies the power of the Holy Spirit but the Bible doesn't call on people to not witness and hope that the person is convicted.


What can I say? I am just a silly guy.....
Nothing silly about the power of the Holy Spirit to convict a person of their personal sin, however. Refraining from pointing out personal sins does not dilute effective witnessing.

""You need to re-read my statement, I said that Jesus, Paul and the disciples condemned sin in general." - aspen

-- And as I pointed out, they ALSO listed specific types of sin. Are you saying that Paul is going against what God wants by not waiting for the "Holy Spirit to convic their hearts?"
Is Paul "denying the power of the Holy Spirit??"


I already explained how someone can list specific sins in a general way. Paul did not say in any of his letters that specific people needed to stop lying or acting worldly. He was merely listing sins - it certainly wasn't an exhaustive list either - they were just examples of worldliness.

"it promotes pride on the part of the person who is witnessing and shame on the part of the person being witnessed to." - aspen

-- If the person is truly a Christian then pride is not 'promoted.' Their motivation is love and a desire to help and pride will not be "promoted."
When a person turns from their sin, repents, seeks God's forgiveness and is washed clean, shame is no longer a part of them.
How can you say that the Holy Spirit will 'convict' so no one needs to have their sins pointed out, but the Holy Spirit will not wipe away feelings of shame. You make no sense.


I make no sense to you because you seem to have no idea how psychology works. People do irrational things like holding on to pain in their lives and blaming themselves - it is called shame. Also, you appear to be blind to the fact that Christians are just as susceptible to Pride as everyone else who experienced the consequences of Original Sin.

"Really? And yet, my kids are going to college because my private practice is filled with Christians who still carry shame, despite the fact they have repented from their sins." - aspen

-- Pretending for a moment that that statement even makes sense, if a person still feels guilt or shame about sin after they have sought forgiveness from Jesus and have been washed clean, that is an issue with the individual, not a matter of Jesus not wiping away guilt and sin.


No kidding! Yet, it doesn't make it any less real for the person. That is why they are seeking counseling.

Many times it is because the person has sought forgiveness but still has not turned away from their sin. The Holy Spirit is the great healer. He WILL ALWAYS wipe away all guilt and shame if people are truly repentent and ask His forgiveness. It really is that simple.


Wrong. He will always forgive, but there is no guarantee that a person will feel it.

"it must be shame, a grossly exaggerated form of guilt that is not motivating, not helpful, and not an accurate picture of a person's condition before God." - aspen

-- Exactly. And that is why, if they truly are seeking forgiveness and repent of their sins, God forgives and wipes away all guilt and shame.
If the person chooses to hold onto it then they are choosing not to let God work fully in their lives.


Right.....that is why so many people are living shame free and healthy lives! The human mind simply doesn't work in this neat and tidy, idealistic manner - sorry.

"Did God have something better in mind for homosexuals - yes! Does that guarantee that they will ever experience something better outside of a homosexual union - nope." - aspen

-- Apparently God doesn't actually work miracles in your book.

I guess you are a silly guy too. I never said homosexuals should give up without a struggle - but you are blind to the fact that God doesn't cause a miracle to happen in everyone's life.

"A homosexual union, might just be the closest they are going to get to God's ideal" - aspen

-- So your saying that the closest "ideal" relationship that a Christian who serves Christ with his whole heart may have to settle for..............................is a relationship that runs completely counter to God's will?
Amazing...simply amazing.


Why is that so amazing? God didn't plan for divorce either - yet, it was allowed in the OT - in fact it was even suggested by a prophet in relation to God and Israel. I am surprised at your idealism.

Again limiting what God can/will do in a person's life. What you believe is definitely not a doctrine of victory through Christ.

If you are blinded to the fact that countless homosexuals have tried everything to be "normal" and failed than you lack the most basic perspective taking skills and I fear for you because a failure to develop perspective taking skills affect your ability to feel empathy, love and forgiveness. I am just being honest.

"My only question left is why are those professing to be Christian so infatuated with homosexuality?" - Religusnut

-- Hmmm. I don't know. Could it be because homosexuals are:

1. Attacking Christians for their believe that homosexuality is a sin and is counter to God's will, calling them 'bigots' 'homophobes' ' zealots' etc. etc. etc.

People are self-seeking. Most homosexuals want the same rights as you and I enjoy. Some homosexuals want special treatment just like some Christians do.

2. Attempting to get hate crime legislation passed making it illegal to quote the Bible in witnessing about homosexuality, seeking fines or imprisonment for those who do so.

Just like some Christians are trying to get legislation against homosexual union - and anti-sodomy laws.

3. Pushing homosexual lifestyle indoctrination in schools, even as early as kindergarten while at the same time working to remove the parent's right of notification or opting out of that instruction.

So is mentioning homosexual union in schools and explaining the reality of our world today the same as recruiting kids to be homosexuals? What about talking about 1 parent? Is talking about divorce ok, in your book? Just like some Christians are trying to promote Christian prayer in schools and posting the Ten Commandments.

4. Pushing gay marraige and actively harassing and posting personal information of those that oppose or give to causes that oppose that agenda.

Again, there are jerks on both sides of the debate.

5. Actively moving in certain "Christian" churches to allow for the ordination of pastors that are homosexuals and are practing homosexual acts.

Certain "churches" have different views of homosexuality than you do. Homosexuals cannot pass laws in churches without the will of the congregation or leadership - depending on the church.

You will notice that the discussion and interaction among Christians and others has been proportionate to the push that the gay community has put forth over the last seeral years.

I have noticed that certain "Christians" have been getting disproportionately upset over the issue in recent years.

Christians - besides working to help homosexuals receive healing and deliverance - are literally fighting for the right to continue to practice their religion freely.
If the homosexual community has its way, even speaking a negative word against homosexuality will be a crime. CRIME. C-R-I-M-E. punishable by fine or even imprisonment.


Let's pretend that could happen - is you life so anti-homosexually centered that you would actually be in danger of prison? If it is - you really need to get a life.

"Infatuation" actually means "responsibility" and a sense of "self-preservation."

Well, I guess if you feel attacked as much as you do, the label of infatuation really fits.
 

religusnut

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"I thought I was clear when I stated that the Holy Spirit will convict their hearts - I hope you are not denying the power of the Holy Spirit??" - aspen

-- What a silly thing to say. No one denies the power of the Holy Spirit but the Bible doesn't call on people to not witness and hope that the person is convicted.


""You need to re-read my statement, I said that Jesus, Paul and the disciples condemned sin in general." - aspen

-- And as I pointed out, they ALSO listed specific types of sin. Are you saying that Paul is going against what God wants by not waiting for the "Holy Spirit to convic their hearts?"
Is Paul "denying the power of the Holy Spirit??"



"it promotes pride on the part of the person who is witnessing and shame on the part of the person being witnessed to." - aspen

-- If the person is truly a Christian then pride is not 'promoted.' Their motivation is love and a desire to help and pride will not be "promoted."
When a person turns from their sin, repents, seeks God's forgiveness and is washed clean, shame is no longer a part of them.
How can you say that the Holy Spirit will 'convict' so no one needs to have their sins pointed out, but the Holy Spirit will not wipe away feelings of shame. You make no sense.



"Really? And yet, my kids are going to college because my private practice is filled with Christians who still carry shame, despite the fact they have repented from their sins." - aspen

-- Pretending for a moment that that statement even makes sense, if a person still feels guilt or shame about sin after they have sought forgiveness from Jesus and have been washed clean, that is an issue with the individual, not a matter of Jesus not wiping away guilt and sin.
Many times it is because the person has sought forgiveness but still has not turned away from their sin. The Holy Spirit is the great healer. He WILL ALWAYS wipe away all guilt and shame if people are truly repentent and ask His forgiveness. It really is that simple.



"it must be shame, a grossly exaggerated form of guilt that is not motivating, not helpful, and not an accurate picture of a person's condition before God." - aspen

-- Exactly. And that is why, if they truly are seeking forgiveness and repent of their sins, God forgives and wipes away all guilt and shame.
If the person chooses to hold onto it then they are choosing not to let God work fully in their lives.



"Did God have something better in mind for homosexuals - yes! Does that guarantee that they will ever experience something better outside of a homosexual union - nope." - aspen

-- Apparently God doesn't actually work miracles in your book.



"A homosexual union, might just be the closest they are going to get to God's ideal" - aspen

-- So your saying that the closest "ideal" relationship that a Christian who serves Christ with his whole heart may have to settle for..............................is a relationship that runs completely counter to God's will?
Amazing...simply amazing.
Again limiting what God can/will do in a person's life. What you believe is definitely not a doctrine of victory through Christ.







"My only question left is why are those professing to be Christian so infatuated with homosexuality?" - Religusnut


-- Hmmm. I don't know. Could it be because homosexuals are:

1. Attacking Christians for their believe that homosexuality is a sin and is counter to God's will, calling them 'bigots' 'homophobes' ' zealots' etc. etc. etc.
2. Attempting to get hate crime legislation passed making it illegal to quote the Bible in witnessing about homosexuality, seeking fines or imprisonment for those who do so.
3. Pushing homosexual lifestyle indoctrination in schools, even as early as kindergarten while at the same time working to remove the parent's right of notification or opting out of that instruction.
4. Pushing gay marraige and actively harassing and posting personal information of those that oppose or give to causes that oppose that agenda.
5. Actively moving in certain "Christian" churches to allow for the ordination of pastors that are homosexuals and are practing homosexual acts.

You will notice that the discussion and interaction among Christians and others has been proportionate to the push that the gay community has put forth over the last seeral years.

Christians - besides working to help homosexuals receive healing and deliverance - are literally fighting for the right to continue to practice their religion freely.
If the homosexual community has its way, even speaking a negative word against homosexuality will be a crime. CRIME. C-R-I-M-E. punishable by fine or even imprisonment.

"Infatuation" actually means "responsibility" and a sense of "self-preservation."

My question was aimed at those that profess to be Christian that are so intent on helping them in the agenda that you pointed out.

There are those on here that are going to do everything in their power to point out anything they can grasp at straws to find that will make those that have eyes to see what is happening as far as this push for homosexuality to be recognized as normal look like intolerant imbeciles.
 

marksman

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Christians cannot adopt children in Britain? I find that hard to believe. Also - how is 6 to 10% of the country (homosexuals - the only people who will be able to work) going to run Britain??? This sounds like fear mongering to me......

I get a lot of information from people who have their finger on the pulse. They are constantly warning that unless the church gets its act together we will go down the gurgler. We need this as most of the church is playing in the sandpit, not wanting to be disturbed. Homosexuals make up no more than 2% of the population, not 6-10% and I used that illustration to warn (there is that word again) that we are being swamped by atheism and all that goes with it.

In very subtle ways they are takiing over the thought process. They said that the way to take a nation is not by war but through the mind. One example is abortion which was restricted to a few particular situaitions. Now it is open slather and you can have your baby killed any time you want for any reason.

Sex education is another area they have captured. What started out as physiology to senior students is now being pushed to teach homosexuality as normal to grade 1.
 

aspen

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My question was aimed at those that profess to be Christian that are so intent on helping them in the agenda that you pointed out.

There are those on here that are going to do everything in their power to point out anything they can grasp at straws to find that will make those that have eyes to see what is happening as far as this push for homosexuality to be recognized as normal look like intolerant imbeciles.



Wow - I read your post three times and I cannot make sense of it.......let me try again.

Your were trying to ask Christians that want to help promote the homosexual agenda......ask them what?
Some people on this board are going to try to make people who recognize that homosexuals are pushing an agenda look intolerant and stupid?

Ok I think I got it.

I have not seen anyone on this board trying to make anyone look stupid. I think several Christians, including myself, are wondering if other Christians are:

1. Singling out homosexuality as a greater sin than other sins
2. Supportive of laws that discriminate against people who choose not to hide their homosexuality or criminalize the practice of homosexuality - prop 8 in California, anti-sodomy laws in Idaho and elsewhere
3. Supportive of the practice of discriminating against people who are homosexual - denying housing, refusing to disclose medical information to partners, deny employment based on sexual orientation.
4. Supportive of pointing out personal sins of homosexuals as part of a comprehensive effort to share the gospel with them.

I think that is about it. Nobody here can 'make' you feel anything - that is up to you. We are simply hoping that you will review your behavior and make sure it is the most effective way to love God and your neighbor.

Peace
 

aspen

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I think it is important for me to say that I totally agree with the video - it raises some good ideas like, looking past the one aspect of homosexual relationships we disagree with - there is a lot more to homosexuals than sex. Great work and very relevant issues for the Christian church to discuss.

Also, I need to add - what is more graphic? seeing the guys in drag or the explicit signs?


Peace
 

aspen

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Very pretty words, albeit misleading and hellish.

What does Hell have in common with love and a call to develop authentic relationships, which is exactly what this video is about

The point is to follow Christ and His commandments in our lives, not to bend over backwards and 'understand' the world.

Considering Christ died for the world, the least we can do is try to understand the people He died for.....even if it means being in an uncomfortable position.

Loving, committed relationships whether they be gay or heterosexual ARE NOT the basis for peace with God.


And yet a loving relationship with God and our neighbors is the summation of the Law and the key to our salvation.....hmmm

And he that doth not take his cross and follow after me, is not worthy of me. Mat 10:38

Taking up your Cross and following Christ means to sacrifice - we are called to sacrifice everything to love God and love our neighbors through service - this includes our ideals, expectations, judgments, certainties, desires to call out others sins from the sideline, and our false selves because they will get in the way of practicing our sanctification - loving.

The Biblical answer to homosexuality is to deny it; externally in society and internally if it exists there.

You are calling out from the sidelines - get in there and start loving. Stop telling others to deny their relationships and start caring about people. You can start by placing yourself in their shoes - how would you feel? When you recognize and feel a bit of the pain they have endured, try some empathy "hey, this person has had a rough time - boy, maybe I should help them with their cross - sort of like the person who helped Christ". Then try some love - "how can I serve this person? How can I show him or her Christ?" then act on it. Then you can try out the highest form of love - forgiveness - forgive them for offending your pride - recognize that their homosexuality has nothing to do with you - in fact, your comfort level was not considered at all. Then, finally you can truly and honestly relate with them with a humble heart.

Bottom line: follow Christ or follow your libido. You can't have it both ways.


How blessed you and I are that we can have it both ways. You better start at simple perspective talking exercise - based on your statement, your empathy is primitive.

Peace
 

aspen

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The problem is that to bring them to the forefront in any situation in a positive manner is to say that their behaviour is ok.

The Pharisees made similar charges against Jesus because to eat with sinners was to condone their sin, right?

It is no differant than placing a person that is a thief in the forefront. We would not openly place a thief or a we would not put a open prostitute in the forefront telling everybody that they were a prostitute..... and then placing that person as a leader....that affirms what they are engagued in.


Or a liar? Or someone who commits adultery? Or a person who openly covets the White House? We elect these people into the White House every four years........are you condoning their sins when you cast your ballot?

Selene homosexuality is perversion. It should not be openly accepted in any situation. We should not put people that are engagued in other sinful behaviour in leadership positions either.

You just don't get it......I am going to have to face that reality.......eesh. I am falling into the arms of the liberal lie - "education is the solution to ignorance"......perhaps I am a liberal after all...mercy!

The reason that there is so much talk about homosexuality is because the activist ar constantly pushing the envelope to get everybody they can especially our children to believe that homosexuality is just normal. IT IS NOT.

Right....I forgot, homosexuality is highly contagious!

I really think some Christians would argue with Christ over this issue - I really do....