The thing that sickens me is that society has sunk to the level that it accepts perversion enough to elect an open homosexual to the position of a college class president in any college. It is equally sickening to see people in a Christian that profess to be Christians protect them like they are just normal people that there is nothing wrong with.
Christian "gay Bashing"
- Thread starter Unifique77
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-- I was born and raised Catholic and understand where you are coming from. I would let you know that in the Christian community - even among Penticostals - a number of these stances by the Catholic church are not seen as Gospel. Song of Solomon would tend to agree with that. The enjoyment of your spouse for enjoyment sake is a gift from God. Sex within a marraige is NOT just for procreation.
Delight in your spouse's body is in and of itself a gift from God. As far as contraception, that is an assumption the Catholic church has made that is not supported or refuted by scripture.
When I was young the Catholic church had taught that the "missionary position" was the only acceptable position for sex between a man and a woman. Again, there was nothing scripturally to support that.
If a married couple finds that the woman is likely to have extreme, possibly life-threatening side effects if she gets pregnant, you make it sound as if the Catholic church's one and only solution is abstinence.
I highly doubt God would mean for this couple in their 20s to spend the next few decades not having sex. Other than contraception or a surgery for one or the other to prevent the chance of pregnancy, what other options would they have?
I know a couple where the wife is bipolar and the Dr. has determined that the medications she requires could cause birth defects in the child and/or early termination of pregnancy through complications.
In order for her to become pregnant they would have to either risk health issues to the child by having the mother not go off medication, risk to the mother by having her go off medication, or not to have children. And as a bonus you seem to be saying that the Catholic church feels that should mean not having sex.
As far as anal sex, oral sex, masturbation within marraige, I see them as a gray area. Mutual masturbation between husband and wife strikes me as an accepted activity, but masturbation in and of it self as a solo activity, I wouldn't think would be okay. Oral sex within marraige is, in my opinion, an accepted practice.
As far as anal sex goes, I do not know. I have heard the argument made that since the married couples are in a heterosexual monogamous relationship, the chance of contracting a disease or spreading it to others is nil so this can be seen as part of delighting in your lover's body.
But that gets to the question that gays have asked. Why is it wrong for gays to have anal sex but not a heterosexual married couple? I don't think giving the Catholic position on sex only being for procreation is going to fly with them. It doesn't fly with the majority of Christians, either.
Is it still the official stance of the Catholic church that sex between married people for reasons other than procreation is forbidden?
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Choir Loft
Very pretty words, albeit misleading and hellish.
The point is to follow Christ and His commandments in our lives, not to bend over backwards and 'understand' the world.
Loving, committed relationships whether they be gay or heterosexual ARE NOT the basis for peace with God.
And he that doth not take his cross and follow after me, is not worthy of me.
Mat 10:38
The Biblical answer to homosexuality is to deny it; externally in society and internally if it exists there.
Bottom line: follow Christ or follow your libido. You can't have it both ways.
Acknowledging that there are people in your immediate or extended family are gay does not alter God's view on the practice.
They are loved by God as much as we are, but - just like us - they have to turn away from sin and give their lives to Jesus to be saved.
They are loved by God as much as we are, but - just like us - they have to turn away from sin and give their lives to Jesus to be saved.
I completely agree Foreigner, you've nailed it on the head. Nothing will ever change God's view on the practice, but it can change in how WE approach and communicate with the gay community
The intent is not to justify homosexuality and make it right, we can never make right what God says is wrong. Its more of how can we better communicate with the gay community so that we can nurture a religious and spiritual growth within their community so that in the end, they can be saved.
Great points RJP
You have some great insights and truths. Just a friendly question though, what would be your reaction if your best friend, father, or children confessed to you that they were homosexual?
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Here is the funny thing......we all agree that homosexuality is a sin. Yet we are all fighting. Religusnut - your last comment is totally outrageous - I am beginning to think that you would bar homosexuals from participating in society, period! Your attitude and your brother Shilvell are the reason we have to protect homosexuals in our society.
Peace
Peace
By openly recognizing a homosexual in any position of authority we are saying that this perversion is ok. Sin always has consequences and the bible teaches that bad company will corrupt good morals......
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Who comes up with these type of standards? So what if the student body president likes to drink? Should we start a blog dedicated to destroying his reputation? If so, I doubt anyone would want to be student body president, let alone be qualified.....
Peace
Selene
New Member
Hello Foreigner,
Our Catechisms states that sex between married people is also for the good of the spouse as well as procreation (CCC 2360). So, delighting in your spouse is approved. However, oral contraceptions and other birth control methods to prevent pregnancy between married couples are not approved by the Church. The outlaw of contraception is supported by Sacred Scripture. Oral Contraception and other birth control methods goes against God's first commandment in Genesis because it prevents procreation. God did not say to stop procreation. We never say that a married couple should abstain from having sex. They can have sex all they want. Unmarried people are the ones who are not supposed to have sex because that is fornication, which is against God's commandment.
Because Christians practice birth control methods, the number of births among Christian families have drastically reduced. Muslims, on the other hand, have lots of children. It will only be a matter of time when the Muslims will outnumber the Christians. Already, their numbers have surpassed the Catholics, who are the largest majority of the Christian denominations. In time, western Europe will have more Muslims than Christians. Something to think about.
It is wrong to have anal sex because research has already shown that it causes sexually transmitted diseases. That part of a person's body was never meant for sexual intercourse. It was meant to take waste out. Having anal sex even among married heterosexual couples will only cause STDs. As I said, the anus was meant to take waste out.
In Christ,
Selene
Selene
New Member
Hello Religusnut,
A Christian is called to love their neighbor and their enemies. Christ love all sinners. We are no better than the homosexuals because we are also sinners. A homosexual has contributed a lot to our society. They are artists, musicians, politicians, class presidents, etc. I don't see anything wrong with them holding jobs. It is not the person (homosexual) that we should condemn because God loves them too. He loves all sinners. It is the act of homosexuality and all sins that God does not approve.
In Christ,
Selene
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
What you do not get, is that the wages of ALL sin is death. God does not differentiate between one and another as you do. If you murdered a thousand people or stole 5 cents, the wages is death. hompsexuality. lust, jeslousy, disobedoence, all leads to death. When you stand accusing people of sin, you are heaping coal on your own head, and as such so shall you be judged. Pray, and let God deal with them.
When you truly find Christ you will understand.
In His Love
The problem is that to bring them to the forefront in any situation in a positive manner is to say that their behaviour is ok.
It is no differant than placing a person that is a thief in the forefront. We would not openly place a thief or a we would not put a open prostitute in the forefront telling everybody that they were a prostitute..... and then placing that person as a leader....that affirms what they are engagued in.
Selene homosexuality is perversion. It should not be openly accepted in any situation. We should not put people that are engagued in other sinful behaviour in leadership positions either.
The reason that there is so much talk about homosexuality is because the activist ar constantly pushing the envelope to get everybody they can especially our children to believe that homosexuality is just normal. IT IS NOT.
People who say that homosexuals are being "attacked" miss what is actually going on.
It is the Christians who are being attacked for not supporting the homosexual agenda. They are called "bigots" and "homophobes" because they refuse to refute what the Bible says about homosexuality.
Homosexual organizations are pushing acceptance and mandatory education (indoctrination) in schools as well as hate crime legislation that would make it illegal for anyone to even say they do not agree with homosexuality.
There are even some 'Christian' churches who are celbrating those in their congregations who are ordaining homosexuals who themselves admit they are sexually active.
The Bible says, "Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness;" - Isaiah 5:20. That is what they have waiting for them.
"homosexuals are modern day lepers" - Aspen
-- Ignoring for a moment the ignorance of that statement, it is hard to call people that when they have opening practicing homosexuals as U.S. Congressmen, Mayors, Entertainers, etc. etc. etc. as well as a large segment of the U.S. population supporting the gay lifestyle and the right to have gay marraige and gay adoption.
Homosexuals as individuals are loved just as much as you and I are by Jesus. It is the sin in their lives - just as the sin in our lives - that causes the disconnect with Jesus.
To call those who Jesus loves as much as you "lepers" makes no sense whatsoever.
It is the Christians who are being attacked for not supporting the homosexual agenda. They are called "bigots" and "homophobes" because they refuse to refute what the Bible says about homosexuality.
Homosexual organizations are pushing acceptance and mandatory education (indoctrination) in schools as well as hate crime legislation that would make it illegal for anyone to even say they do not agree with homosexuality.
There are even some 'Christian' churches who are celbrating those in their congregations who are ordaining homosexuals who themselves admit they are sexually active.
The Bible says, "Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness;" - Isaiah 5:20. That is what they have waiting for them.
"homosexuals are modern day lepers" - Aspen
-- Ignoring for a moment the ignorance of that statement, it is hard to call people that when they have opening practicing homosexuals as U.S. Congressmen, Mayors, Entertainers, etc. etc. etc. as well as a large segment of the U.S. population supporting the gay lifestyle and the right to have gay marraige and gay adoption.
Homosexuals as individuals are loved just as much as you and I are by Jesus. It is the sin in their lives - just as the sin in our lives - that causes the disconnect with Jesus.
To call those who Jesus loves as much as you "lepers" makes no sense whatsoever.
I think you said it the best yet.
Just like the man in the opening video that got this thread going.
He was calling evil bad and not good and he was the one attacked as a bigot or a homophobe and he was the bad guy. The sad thing is that there are many even on here that profess to be Christians that will go after you me or anybody else that calls evil what it is. The guy in the interview that portrays him as wrong knew exactly what he was doing and why he was doing it. This was nothing more than a subtle way to once again attack those evil Christians.
Indeed, its not wrong for the man in the video to express his beliefs and call sin for what it is, but the WAY in which he does it is questionable. As Activist Andrew Marin stated in the video, we can still hold onto our beliefs and maintain the doctrine, while still engaging through peaceful and productive ways.
Finding different ways of communicating does not mean that we have to compromise the word or our beliefs in any way.
I think by now we've gotten our message across: "Homosexuality is a sin." We've succeeded in doing that, now what? What is our next step?
And honestly, I think one Christian criticizing another Christian and calling them out does not make them any less Christian, or somehow evil. An American citizen who criticizes the actions of his government does not make him an anarchist or any less "American" than a person who chooses not to voice his/her concern. Sometimes we have to keep ourselves in check. Just because we have the best intentions in mind does not mean that we aren't fallible.
Selene
New Member
I don't accept homosexuality at all, but that does not mean that we should persecute homosexuals. We are no better than they are because we are also sinners. Murder is also a sin and should not be condoned at all. However, this does not mean that we should torture murderers.
In Christ,
Selene
I have never seen murders marching in the streets celebrating the fact that they were murders. I find no legislation protecting murders as a special protected class of people. I find nothing in the classrooms for little children tell them that being a murder is normal.
Sorry but your agreement with this does not hold water. They need to be put out of the front of society as an accepted class and anything favorable should not be said about them because there is nothing favorable about that lifestyle.
