Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
I was wondering what people believe about Baptism. Is is necessary for salvation? Or can one be saved without being baptized? Please use the Bible to back up your belief.
Acts 10
[sup]34[/sup] Then Peter opened his mouth and said: “In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality. [sup]35[/sup] But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him. [sup]36[/sup] The word which God sent to the children of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ—He is Lord of all— [sup]37[/sup] that word you know, which was proclaimed throughout all Judea, and began from Galilee after the baptism which John preached: [sup]38[/sup] how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him. [sup]39[/sup] And we are witnesses of all things which He did both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem, whom they[sup][e][/sup] killed by hanging on a tree. [sup]40[/sup] Him God raised up on the third day, and showed Him openly, [sup]41[/sup] not to all the people, but to witnesses chosen before by God, even to us who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead. [sup]42[/sup] And He commanded us to preach to the people, and to testify that it is He who was ordained by God to be Judge of the living and the dead. [sup]43[/sup] To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins.”
[sup]44[/sup] While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. [sup]45[/sup] And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. [sup]46[/sup] For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.
Then Peter answered, [sup]47[/sup] “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” [sup]48[/sup] And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.
John 14
[sup]15[/sup] “If you love Me, keep[sup][d][/sup] My commandments. [sup]16[/sup] And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— [sup]17[/sup] the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. [sup]18[/sup] I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.
Acts 1
[sup]4[/sup] And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; [sup]5[/sup] for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” [sup]6[/sup] Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” [sup]7[/sup] And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority. [sup]8[/sup] But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me[sup][a][/sup] in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”
Hey all, I like to thank the people who took time to post their beliefs on the topic "baptism". I hope it will continue.
I will briefly tell you my belief , "is baptism is necessary for salvation?"
Why should one be baptized?
1. Because Christ commanded it. Mark 16:16
2. For (unto) the remission of sins. Acts 2:38
3. To wash away sins. Acts 22:16
4. Because Peter said that baptism saves. 1 Pet. 3:21
5. To enter Christ. Gal. 3:26-27
6. To reach the atoning blood of Christ shed in his death. Rom. 6:3-4; John 19:34
My replies to bud02 in blue.
So I am going to presume you mean all the usages of the word baptism above are referring to water baptism.
Its pretty clear from scripture there are 2 one of water and one of Spirit, the latter one is what saves.
Exactly which of the scriptures given are you saying is about water baptism, and which ones do you think are about baptism of the Holy Spirit?
In short I would recommend using Strong's Lexicon numbers to see the use of the Greek words translated baptism. http://www.eliyah.com/lexicon.html
Why are you relying so heavily on Strong's interpretation of the Bible? He is a man that could and does makes mistakes.
907. baptizo bap-tid'-zo from a derivative of 911; to immerse, submerge; to make whelmed (i.e. fully wet); used only (in the New Testament) of ceremonial ablution, especially (technically) of the ordinance of Christian baptism:--Baptist, baptize, wash.
908. baptisma bap'-tis-mah from 907; baptism (technically or figuratively):--baptism. 909. baptismos bap-tis-mos' from 907; ablution (ceremonial or Christian):--baptism, washing. 910. Baptistes bap-tis-tace' from 907; a baptizer, as an epithet of Christ's forerunner:--Baptist.
I don't see the good explanation here. Do you think you might point it out and explain it better to me? We can be immersed in the water---for a water baptism, and when Jesus gives us the Holy Spirit, we can be immersed with the Holy Spirit.
Mark 16:16 is from Jesus speaking to the Hebrews and referencing Johns baptism 907 it is speaking of those that heard John and believe in Jesus but before the HS is given to the Apostles in Acts.
Acts 2:38 Peter has spoken the word and the hearers are cut to the heart and ask what shall we do. 907 its an outward act of an in word conversion / conviction.
Acts 2:28 is also about water baptism. 1 Peter talks about the water which saves. And in another scripture, 1 Corinthians 10:1-2 is also about water, water from the sea, and water of the cloud. 1 Corinthians 10:1-2 For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers and sisters, that our ancestors were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea.
1 Peter 3:21 Peter
18 For Christ also suffered nonce for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death pin the flesh but made alive in the spirit, 19 in which3 he went and qproclaimed4 to the spirits in prison, 20 because5 they formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water. 21 Baptism, which corresponds to this,(SEE ABOVE BOLD TEXT) now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and xis at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him.
The word used here is 908 its used figuratively in reference to the context. being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, Water baptism is is a figurative expression of the baptism that saves threw Jesus, the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
1 Peter 3:21 is about water baptism and "an appeal to God for a good conscience." Peter speaks about the water which saves. And in another scripture, Paul speaks about the water which saved too...1 Corinthians 10:1-2 For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers and sisters, that our ancestors were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea.
So are you really trying to say it doesn't have anything to do with actual water?
Gal. 3:26-27 Here Paul uses 907 but follows with the definition "For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ." It would seem to be clear that Paul is speaking of the baptism of the HS.
Don't know what your trying to say. You can't say Galatians 3:26 has nothing to do with water baptism, in fact, it is much like Romans 6:3-4. Why are you trying to get rid of water baptism? You are denying the scriptures. Believers get water baptized. And some are baptized with the Holy Spirit before water baptism, and some are baptized with the Holy Spirit after water baptism.
Rom 6:3-4 the same is true in Romans, he follows with into Christ, not into repentance. What are you talking about? Romans 6:3-4 illustrates water baptism!
So you cant just go threw scripture and find every accout of the word baptism and apply it to water immersion. Seems like you are trying to get rid of water baptism. If you look, perhaps you will see many things that were done by men that are a reflection of the reality. Water baptism is a reflection of the reality of being baptized with the Holy Spirit. It was introduced by John whom God used to prepare the way for the real thing. Those Jews that received Johns baptism and believed on the one whom John pointed them to, were destine to receive the reality, being born again of the Spirit. It was Gods provision to those that heard and knew the truth, outside of the teachings of Pharisee's. This distinction must also be realized when reading scripture, at what time were they speaking before Pentecost or after. As I said before baptism was first exclusively for the Jews pre Pentecost. As you pointed out in Acts it follows the work of the Spirit. In fact Acts 2 was before the Spirit was pored out on the Gentiles, so these were Jews who were not baptized by Johns baptismal but were convicted by the Spirit. Are you trying to get rid of confessing/repenting?
Jews born of the Spirit
Acts 2 37 Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” 38 And Peter said to them, Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
now compare that with the Gentiles receiving the Spirit.
The Holy Spirit Falls on the Gentiles 44 While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. 45 And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles. 46 For they were hearing them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared, 47 “Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to remain for some days.
Its the reverse order from Acts 2, first convicted by the Spirit, now repent and be baptized, then you shall receive the HS. This is the Jewish salvation method.
Acts 10 they received by hearing then were baptized. This is the method to the Gentiles.
There isn't a different methold of salvation for the Jews and a different one for Gentiles.
To summarize baptism was necessary for the Jews to receive the HS. It was not necessary for the Gentiles. I could explain it in more detail but I find such things are not for the majority you must know the basics, No, this isn't right.
those basics include the times in which things take place in context with to whom they were intended. There is a reason the Jews were required to be baptized before the promise went to all the Nations. The Jews had to repent. And so do the Gentiles!
After the pouring out of the Spirit on Cornelius and his house hold, all men including Jews are saved by faith threw grace. 70 weeks are determined for you and your people, I believe that week ended when Cornelius and his household received the promise. Just look at all the hevenly signs to both Cornelius and Paul, this event was orchestrated from above in person. But don't get me wrong just as Peter says, Acts 10 34 So Peter opened his mouth and said: “Truly I understand that God shows no partiality, 35 but in every nation anyone who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him.
From 1 Corinthians 10:1-2, Galatians 3:26, Romans 6:3-4, and 1 Peter 3:21, you should be able to see that your theory is wrong. Don't try to do away with repenting and water baptism.
Truly I understand that God shows no partiality, the question is do you? Do you understand that all men now stand on equal ground. 70 weeks are determined for you and your people.
Now you go and be baptized, the keeping of the law is always pleasing to God.
Lets just say we don't understand each other.
I feel a bit mislead in replying to Humblemans second post on this forum, but its feels as thou I was batted into a topic that he already had an firm opinion about.
I've conversed on this topic many times and its clear that you and he see baptism as the same in every situation reguardless of the time or to whom or what it applies to.
I'm certain that someone knows what I'm talking about, God bless
I think I do understand you....I just hate to think that you are really trying to talk people out of water baptism. So, you don't want to look again at 1 Peter 3:21 and 1 Corinthians 10:1-2 ? You don't want to admit that these scriptures were about literal water too? When the earth was flooded in Noah's time, and the time with the cloud and Moses, and the parting of the sea....you don't want to admit it is about water?
As for Humbleman....so what he wants to talk about water baptism? There's nothing wrong with that. I think it is good that he brought it up, especially if there are Christians who don't see water baptism in the scriptures when it is there, and those who don't think it is even a necessary to do.
Who said anything about talking people out of water baptism? Would you consider baptism a work of the flesh? I would, so If its nessasary as you say then we must ignore the teaching that we are saved threw faith by grace, not of works. Eph 2:8-9 Gal 2:16
My intent is to bring understanding to the concept in context of all scripture, so you can fully understand the concept. I never said don't be baptized, but what was to be gained in Acts 10 by baptizing the Gentiles after receiving the Holy Spirit? Will you boast of your good works by which you received salvation? Or will you praise God for the renewing of your mind in understanding how you received salvation? If you notice I closed my last reply with, Now you go and be baptized, the keeping of the law is always pleasing to God. Rom 3:20
You deny the scriptures that speak of water baptism as speaking of water baptism. When you deny the scriptures that speak of water baptism and say it is not about water baptism---you ARE then trying to talk people out of the truth. You don't understand the scriptures. You ask me "will you boast of your good works by which you received salvation?" A PERSON WHO ALREADY BELIEVES GETS WATER BAPTIZED. UNBELIEVERS DON'T GET BAPTIZED. You said "I never said don't be baptized" and then you said "but what was to be gained in Acts 10 by baptizing the Gentiles after receiving the Holy Spirit"! We are commanded to be baptized! It is a pledge of a good conscience! You say "or will you praise God for the renewing of your mind in understanding how you received salvation?" I praise God for revealing the truth to me about water baptism. I pray that you will stop believing that THOSE SCRIPTURES WE DISCUSSED DON'T TALK ABOUT WATER BAPTISM. You STILL haven't acknowledged your error in 1 Peter 3:21 and 1 Corinthians 10:1-2.
It seems you want to argue. Your first 3 statements are manufactured strawmen arguments. Like I said in the first place, we dont speak the same language
But your reply to my decline to respond seemed genuine in wanting to have a dialog. It's completely clear you don't, your looking for someone to beat on with a different opinion than yours. There are several others here that share the same attributes as you, the conversations consist of repeating myself simply because they continually misinterpret my statements. My time is spent defending myself from false accusations. I can't help but think the same thing happens when you read anything, including scripture. Good by. Pr 20:5 Pr 20:3 Pr 9:7-8
2 Tim 3:5-7
I was wondering what people believe about Baptism. Is is necessary for salvation? Or can one be saved without being baptized? Please use the Bible to back up your belief.
Please don't make the mistake in believing that you receive the Holy Spirit at the time you decide you need to be water baptized there is no scripture that supports this notion.
Rom 3:20Now you go and be baptized, the keeping of the law is always pleasing to God.
If you discern what I have been saying from the beginning I'm more concerned with the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Will you be risen with Christ with only a water baptism no. Why? simply because you can go any church and have someone baptize you
Will you be risen with only a Holy Spirit baptism yes. Why? because it is the seal of our redemption from God. Eph 1:13-14
Hello Bud,
Actually, it has to be both water and spirit. St. Peter said that water baptism also saves you (1 Peter 3:20-21). Water baptism did not come from man. It came from God (Mark 11:30 and John 1:33). Christ said that one must be born of "water and spirit" to enter the kingdom of Heaven (John 3:5). When Christ spoke those words to Nicodemus, He was referring to baptism - the same kind of baptism that Jesus underwent in the Jordan River. As you read in the Bible, when Christ was baptized by St. John the baptist, He was baptized in both water and spirit. He rose out from the water and the Holy Spirit descended upon Him declaring "this is my Son, whom I am well pleased."
In Christ,
Selene
You are of the Catholic faith so are these also a necessary work for salvation as well? The other 6 sacraments?
I just want to know how long the list is
Baptism, Confirmation, Holy Communion, Confession, Marriage, Holy Orders, and the Anointing of the Sick