Giving others freedom to think and believe differently

[saintiaint]

Is there not a heaven and hell?

Better to focus on now. Let God worry about the next life .

 

[DNB]

This is what I found on the web...
The Short Answer
We can say with some certainty that the first widespread edition of the Bible was assembled by St. Jerome around A.D. 400. This manuscript included all 39 books of the Old Testament and the 27 books of the New Testament in the same language: Latin. This edition of the Bible is commonly referred to as The Vulgate.


Jerome wasn't the first to select all 66 books we know today as the Bible. He was the first to translate and compile everything into a single volume.
Who Compiled the 66 Books of the Bible and When?

Oh, sorry, were you referring to the authority of the canon itself, or simply the comparison between the KJV and Catholic Bibles (sorry, I only read your post atht i responded to, nothing prior).
The canon was derived by tradition, no formal council or meeting derived the books to be included. Carthage & Hippo simply ratified what was traditionally in place.
Marcion's truncated Bible offers insight to the earliest books that were considered inspired. Muratorian fragment and Athanasius' festal letter are the earliest attestations to what Christians considerd canon.

The Septuagint and Jerome's Latin Vulgate included the Apocrypha. The Apocrypha are inter-testamental books written between approx 400bc - 100bc. Thus, considered part of the OT, for the sake of argument, ...but, no Hebrew Bibles accept them because, for one, they were not written in Hebrew, but Greek. I forget the other reasons (lack of inspiration?)?

 

[DNB]

and that is a very nasty comment... which reflects that you are being a very disobedient Christian yourself.

Understand it in context.

 

[DNB]

I define evangelism differently. Or more broadly. You seem to limit evangelism to "I'm the expert. Now listen to what I have to say".
There is a time and place for that I admit. But it's only a part of it.

It's the majority of it, ...you're not appreciating the gravity of the situation.

 

[Addy]

Understand it in context.

I'm quite certain I "read" you properly... I am most familiar with the kind of "evangelism" of
which you seem to believe in...
I stay away from Christians with this mind-set as I find they do so much damage to every one they
come into contact with... Just my opinion.

 

[DNB]

Entirely denouncing?? Not sure about that

Maybe not entirely, maybe not denouncing, ...but you are just way too luke warm in your convictions.
I'm not trying too disparage here, but, judging by many of your posts, including this, I find you to be rather secular in your perception of Christianity - you are not appreciating the martyrdom, both physically and spiritually, required in order to be both edified and efficacious.

 

[Addy]

Oh my goodness... REALLY??? Note to self* RUN ADDY ... RUN....

 

[DNB]

I'm quite certain I "read" you properly... I am most familiar with the kind of "evangelism" of
which you seem to believe in...
I stay away from Christians with this mind-set as I find they do so much damage to every one they
come into contact with... Just my opinion.

No, you didn't read me properly, at all. Read my follow-up to aintnosaint in regard to that comment, he appeared to have misread me also.
It's much to easy to take a back seat and simply concern ourselves with our own salvation, and then excuse it as '...I don't want to be annoying or aggressive..'
No one is precluding the need for wisdom, tact and diplomacy in such efforts. Paul become everything, to all men. This is extremely profound and skillful, it is not for bullies nor the obnoxious, but the mature, wise and compassionate.

Just because of the crusades or charlatans, does not make Christianity wrong. As, just because there are some with no skill in evangelizing, does not make evangelization to be avoided.

 

[saintiaint]

but you are just way too luke warm in your convictions.

That might be valid.
Ok

 

[saintiaint]

I find you to be rather secular in your perception of Christianity - you are not appreciating the martyrdom, both physically and spiritually, required in order to be both edified and efficacious.

Yes. I'm in my secular Christian phase.
The honeymoon is over I'm afraid. Or is that just an excuse for lack of enthusiasm?

 

[saintiaint]

It's the majority of it, ...you're not appreciating the gravity of the situation.

Gravity.
You might be too grave for me. And potential converts I suspect.

 

[Addy]

Point is, no matter what the context, when there is error, no matter how egregious the error is, the one who knows better is obligated to step in.
Your attitude is way too complacent. I get your point, but it's not balanced enough, you have not acknowledged the merits and obligation, of evangelism on any level.

It's the majority of it, ...you're not appreciating the gravity of the situation.

Maybe not entirely, maybe not denouncing, ...but you are just way too luke warm in your convictions.
I'm not trying too disparage here, but, judging by many of your posts, including this, I find you to be rather secular in your perception of Christianity - you are not appreciating the martyrdom, both physically and spiritually, required in order to be both edified and efficacious.

No, you didn't read me properly, at all.

The above are all your quotes... In each and every one... you have chosen to belittle... judge and correct @saintiaint.
Please do not tell me that I have mis-read you. I will repeat that I am familiar with this type of so called Christianity...and it
does massive damage to everyone that receives it. I need to move on now... as I have no desire to discuss this matter any further.

 

[saintiaint]

Christianity...and it
does massive damage to everyone

Only if you take it seriously.
My brother is a pentecostal and gets in his evangelizing mood. I tend to tune out. He wants to save us all.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

When is that the case though? Are they dying?
Convert? From Catholic to adult saved paradigm Christian? From atheist to Christian?
Personally speaking I don't try to convert people. I let God do the work by my example if necessary but as I said I don't try to convert anyway. I don't like the word "convert". It implies there is something wrong with them.

You are right on a very important principle, God converts the individual. It is a spiritual act that involves lifting that veil of blindness, shedding light on the darkness, there is so much that we are not capable of doing that. But we cooperate with His love and His Word and He works through us.
Imagine a person who has been fed lies, false religions, doubts, weird philosophies, dark stuff, all their lives. God has to go in and do some surgery, remove, dissolve every one of those bindings (if you will) ... snip ... snip. Each one of them surgically removed. Sometimes it takes years for these falsehoods to dissolve.
I can remember much of my falsehoods dissolving quickly when I became a Christian. But everyone has major stumbling blocks that they need to resolve, they need answers to those complex questions and God reveals those answers. It's a miracle, how He enlightens us and releases us from bondage. We find most of the answers in the Bible, but people just read it and can't believe it.
Your last sentence though, the implication that something is wrong with them is absolutely true. We are all born with this spiritual defect and then of course a sinful nature that is likened to a disease - something is truly wrong with us and we all need a very special Physician to cure us.

 

[Addy]

You are right on a very important principle, God converts the individual. It is a spiritual act that involves lifting that veil of blindness, shedding light on the darkness, there is so much that we are not capable of doing that. But we cooperate with His love and His Word and He works through us.
Imagine a person who has been fed lies, false religions, doubts, weird philosophies, dark stuff, all their lives. God has to go in and do some surgery, remove, dissolve every one of those bindings (if you will) ... snip ... snip. Each one of them surgically removed. Sometimes it takes years for these falsehoods to dissolve.
I can remember much of my falsehoods dissolving quickly when I became a Christian. But everyone has major stumbling blocks that they need to resolve, they need answers to those complex questions and God reveals those answers. It's a miracle, how He enlightens us and releases us from bondage. We find most of the answers in the Bible, but people just read it and can't believe it.
Your last sentence though, the implication that something is wrong with them is absolutely true. We are all born with this spiritual defect and then of course a sinful nature that is likened to a disease - something is truly wrong with us and we all need a very special Physician to cure us.

Excellent post.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

As far as "truth" goes, how you communicate says a lot more about "truth "than the message itself.

Good point. A few verses which have stood out to me and I’ve had to ask: how do you communicate with affliction? Philippians 4:14 Notwithstanding ye have well done, that ye did communicate with my affliction.

fellowship, communicate with, be partaker of.
a partaker with, co-partner.

and 2 Corinthians 1:24 as helpers and not Lords? “Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your for by faith ye stand.”

As helper ...doesn’t that display the Holy Spirit which Helps(the comforter) in our time of trouble.

 

[Philip James]

What is the feast with alexandria , or constantinople .

Hello amigo,

The Feast is the Divine Liturgy, the celebration of the Divine Mysteries, the celebration of the Eucharist...

wherein the Groom gives Himself to His bride, and she receiving Him, 'the two are made one flesh'

This is a great mystery, but I speak in reference to Christ and the church.

The Church in Alexandria: Encyclopedia Coptica: The Christian Coptic Orthodox Church Of Egypt

The Church in Constantinople: Patriarchal History

Peace be with you!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

and to be quite honest.. I would rather be in the presence of an athiest than a great many Christians.

is there a difference between ‘an atheist’ and those ‘against the word they preach’?

 

[Addy]

is there a difference between ‘an atheist’ and those ‘against the word they preach’?

I know your temperament is gentle and therefore... I don't think this is a loaded question... LOL

Can you clarify this question for me please? Is there a difference between an atheist and those who preach against the gospel ??? Is that what you are asking?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I know your temperament is gentle and therefore... I don't think this is a loaded question... LOL

Can you clarify this question for me please? Is there a difference between an atheist and those who preach against the gospel ??? Is that what you are asking?

Your post made me question what is the difference between ‘An atheist’ or ‘the blind leading the blind’. Not to be ugly and this is not directed at you in any way because I was thinking about this the other day before this thread. There is a song “hold onto me” saying when it is too dark and I can’t see ...hold onto me. the song is praising Christ yes for His endurance. But when He does all those things in the song for us ...why do we not then do it for others? Being Lead by the Spirit? In the Old Testament He said He would lead the blind by a way they knew not. Point is, and probably not a clear one; why do we claim God and praise Him for His mercy but refuse to have mercy toward those caught in “when I’ve missed the light the night has stolen”?