Dead to the Law

[BarneyFife]

Thats not written as an exercise for the Born Again.
See, that Apostle has no sin, but those people he is addressing have sin.
He is speaking to them, as a Preacher speaks to a room full.

That verse is written to expound on the difference between who needs to confess, and who does not.

See, if you are a sinner, then this excludes you from being recognized by God as a Saint.
If you are a saint, this excludes you from being recognized by God as being a sinner.

Which one are you, as you don't seem to know.

Isn't that ultimately going to be your decision? I mean, who are we kidding?
You've got everything figured out.
You even know all about what the Bible doesn't say in 1 John 1.
Go troll somewhere else, Behold.

 

[Behold]

No, I don't say that; you imagine that.

Behold said: '''''The Blood of Jesus is the "bible method of Salvation".
What is yours?""""
-
-
BARNYFIFE SAID : = Post # 728

""""I don't have one."""""

 

[justbyfaith]

Thats not written as an exercise for the Born Again.
See, that Apostle has no sin, but those people he is addressing have sin.
He is speaking to them, as a Preacher speaks to a room full.

That verse is written to expound on the difference between who needs to confess, and who does not.

See, if you are a sinner, then this excludes you from being recognized by God as a Saint.
If you are a saint, this excludes you from being recognized by God as being a sinner.

Which one are you, as you don't seem to know.

A saint is someone in whom the element of sin has been rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say over his behaviour (Romans 6:14).

Scripture is clear that all have indwelling sin (1 John 1:8, 1 Timothy 1:15, Romans 7:18, Romans 3:23, Galatians 3:22).

If you are confessing sin, then your Christianity is not right.

Your Christianity is not right if you are denying scripture; such as 1 John 1:9.

If you are found on a Christian forum trying to convince real born again believers that they have "sin" then you are doing the devil's work, again.

Nope.

If you believe that "water" is a part of the "counsel" of God, or as you are actually teaching, that "water saves" then you are just one more "cult of the Virgin" tool who is on a Christian forum causing Chaos.

I will leave the reader to do the Berean (Acts of the Apostles 17:10-11) thing and study out what is written in holy scripture on this subject.

And, i told you......no born again person has any sin.
Jesus has it. He took it, bore it, and died for it, according to the NT that you don't comprehend.
So, if you have your sin, then Jesus does not have it, and you are not born again.

Let me explain this carefully to you.
Someone has your sin.
You have it, or Jesus has it.
You claim you have it. And if that is true then you need to resolve that issue before you die.

"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." (1 John 1:8)

If you say that you have no sin, you are not born again (you are deceiving yourself and the truth is not in you).

 

[Behold]

A saint is

A Saint is a Born Again Believer.
All Born Again Believers are :

1. Temple of the Holy Spirit
2. SAINTS
3. Brethren
4. Heirs of God
5. Joint Heirs with Christ
6. "As Jesus is, so are the born again IN THIS WORLD", and "seated in Heavenly places IN Christ"
7. Redeemed and Blood Bought
8. Bride of Christ
9. Lively Stones
10. "One with God and Christ".
11. "IN Christ".

And more......

 

[justbyfaith]

A saint is someone in whom the element of sin has been rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say over his behaviour (Romans 6:14).

Scripture is clear that all have indwelling sin (1 John 1:8, 1 Timothy 1:15, Romans 7:18, Romans 3:23, Galatians 3:22).

 

[Charlie24]

A saint is someone in whom the element of sin has been rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say over his behaviour (Romans 6:14).

Scripture is clear that all have indwelling sin (1 John 1:8, 1 Timothy 1:15, Romans 7:18, Romans 3:23, Galatians 3:22).



Your Christianity is not right if you are denying scripture; such as 1 John 1:9.



Nope.



I will leave the reader to do the Berean (Acts of the Apostles 17:10-11) thing and study out what is written in holy scripture on this subject.



"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." (1 John 1:8)

If you say that you have no sin, you are not born again (you are deceiving yourself and the truth is not in you).

It's one thing after another with you Jbf!

1 John 1:8 carries the definite article "the" which makes it "the sin" the sin nature.

This verse reads, "if we say we have no sin nature, we deceive ourselves."

Now in verse 10 you can apply just "sin" as it doesn't carry the definite article.

This verse reads, "if we say we have not sinned, we make Him a liar."

 

[justbyfaith]

It's one thing after another with you Jbf!

1 John 1:8 carries the definite article "the" which makes it "the sin" the sin nature.

This verse reads, "if we say we have no sin nature, we deceive ourselves."

Now in verse 10 you can apply just "sin" as it doesn't carry the definite article.

This verse reads, "if we say we have not sinned, we make Him a liar."

What about what I have said makes you think that I am in disagreement with any of that?

 

[Charlie24]

What about what I have said makes you think that I am in disagreement with any of that?

Post #783 you said,

"If you say that you have no sin, you are not born again"

This is what I'm correcting you on, it's not true because you didn't know what the verse was saying.

I wasn't kidding when I said I'm going to find your faults and call it out!

 

[justbyfaith]

Post #783 you said,

"If you say that you have no sin, you are not born again"

This is what I'm correcting you on, it's not true because you didn't know what the verse was saying.

I wasn't kidding when I said I'm going to find your faults and call it out!

Explain to us what the verse is truly saying, then.

It seems clear to me that 1 John 1:8 is speaking of indwelling sin; because if it is speaking of practical sins then it is in contradiction to 1 John 3:9.

But clearly, this is the quotation of 1 John 1:8...

1Jo 1:8, If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

If therefore the one who says that he has no sin deceives himself and the truth is not in him (and the verse would seem to be saying this), how is he born again?

 

[Charlie24]

Explain to us what the verse is truly saying, then.

It seems clear to me that 1 John 1:8 is speaking of indwelling sin; because if it is speaking of practical sins then it is in contradiction to 1 John 3:9.

But clearly, this is the quotation of 1 John 1:8...

1Jo 1:8, If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

If therefore the one who says that he has no sin deceives himself and the truth is not in him (and the verse would seem to be saying this), how is he born again?

I took 2 semesters of Greek in school, not to learn to speak it but to learn how to use it. That's where i learned about the definite article.

Paul and John both speak in detail of sin. They speak of sin we commit and the sin nature. Paul uses it more than John. The Greek definite article turns the word "sin" from an action to a noun, from sinning that we commit to "the sin" which makes it the sin nature.

As I have said, 1 John 1:8 in the Greek has the definite article before it. It is not referring to sinning but "the sin" the sin nature. Verse 10 is referring to sinning in action.

The definite article is found many times in Paul's epistles, but he goes into more detail that any other author in scripture. Especially sin and the sin nature.

If you don't believe me look it up, it may take some serious looking but you will find it.

 

[justbyfaith]

I took 2 semesters of Greek in school, not to learn to speak it but to learn how to use it. That's where i learned about the definite article.

Paul and John both speak in detail of sin. They speak of sin we commit and the sin nature. Paul uses it more than John. The Greek definite article turns the word "sin" from an action to a noun, from sinning that we commit to "the sin" which makes it the sin nature.

As I have said, 1 John 1:8 in the Greek has the definite article before it. It is not referring to sinning but "the sin" the sin nature. Verse 10 is referring to sinning in action.

The definite article is found many times in Paul's epistles, but he goes into more detail that any other author in scripture. Especially sin and the sin nature.

If you don't believe me look it up, it may take some serious looking but you will find it.

I'm not in disagreement with any of that.

I believe that it is the element of sin that John is speaking of in 1 John 1:8; which can, I suppose, be referred to as the sinful nature.

Which element can be rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say over our behaviour (Romans 6:14).

I am in full agreement with the interpretation that would arise from understanding that the definite article precedes the word "sin" in 1 John 1:8, iow.

 

[Charlie24]

I'm not in disagreement with any of that.

I believe that it is the element of sin that John is speaking of in 1 John 1:8; which can, I suppose, be referred to as the sinful nature.

Which element can be rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say over our behaviour (Romans 6:14).

I am in full agreement with the interpretation that would arise from understanding that the definite article precedes the word "sin" in 1 John 1:8, iow.

We all who have been born again retain the sin nature. It is not dead to us, we are dead to it, as long as we don't waver in our faith.

The sin nature can rise up in any of us at any time. It is our faith in Him, keeping in relationship, that puts the sin nature at bay.

The apostles tell us continuously about the sin that so easily besets us. When we take our eyes off Christ, the door is open for Satan and he knows exactly the sin besets each one of us. He and his cohorts watch us, they know what sin we lean to, and that will be the temptation they will put right in front of you.

We have to stay in relationship with Christ, we are no match for Satan, he will win every time. But thank God we have Christ, who loved us and gave Himself for us. He will never leave us or forsake us. But the problem is that we forsake ourselves when we let our guard down!

 

[justbyfaith]

It is not dead to us, we are dead to it, as long as we don't waver in our faith.

The element of sin is rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say over our behaviour (Romans 6:14).

Try looking up the verses this time.

 

[Charlie24]

The element of sin is rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say over our behaviour (Romans 6:14).

Try looking up the verses this time.

OK, hardhead! Let's look at "that the body of sin might be destroyed." KJV

"Destroyed" in the Greek is "katargeo" and means to render idle, inactive, inoperative, to cause to cease.

It does not mean what you think it does, it does not mean to do away with entirely.

The sin nature has been neutralized by faith in Christ, but it's still there.

 

[justbyfaith]

OK, hardhead! Let's look at "that the body of sin might be destroyed." KJV

"Destroyed" in the Greek is "katargeo" and means to render idle, inactive, inoperative, to cause to cease.

It does not mean what you think it does, it does not mean to do away with entirely.

The sin nature has been neutralized by faith in Christ, but it's still there.

Right...it's rendered dead.

So, what do you think of it when I compare Romans 6:6 (kjv) w/ Colossians 2:11 (kjv), (NLT)?

Rom 6:6, Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Col 2:11, In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Here, it would seem that "the body of sin" is the encapsulation of that which is sinful within you; and "the body of the sins of the flesh" is the encapsulation of that which is sinful in your flesh.

Of course, how do we relate this to the fact that sin is relegated to the flesh in Romans 8:3?

(just a rhetorical question)

For it says that the body of the sins of the flesh is put off from us in a kind of spiritual circumcision...a cutting away of the sinful nature very much like the cutting away of the foreskin in physical circumcision.

Col 2:11 (NLT), When you came to Christ, you were “circumcised,” but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision—the cutting away of your sinful nature.

 

[justbyfaith]

OK, hardhead! Let's look at "that the body of sin might be destroyed." KJV

btw, please look at the similarities between the verses that I reference. In Romans 6:6 I was referring to the fact that the old man is crucified; as that is also what is expressed in Galatians 5:24 as regarding the flesh...and I am saying that in that crucifixion sin is rendered dead as we can find in Romans 7:8.

 

[Charlie24]

Right...it's rendered dead.

So, what do you think of it when I compare Romans 6:6 (kjv) w/ Colossians 2:11 (kjv), (NLT)?

Rom 6:6, Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Col 2:11, In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Here, it would seem that "the body of sin" is the encapsulation of that which is sinful within you; and "the body of the sins of the flesh" is the encapsulation of that which is sinful in your flesh.

Of course, how do we relate this to the fact that sin is relegated to the flesh in Romans 8:3?

(just a rhetorical question)

For it says that the body of the sins of the flesh is put off from us in a kind of spiritual circumcision...a cutting away of the sinful nature very much like the cutting away of the foreskin in physical circumcision.

Col 2:11 (NLT), When you came to Christ, you were “circumcised,” but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision—the cutting away of your sinful nature.

What does dead mean jbf, does it not mean "no longer living."

Does the definition of "katargeo" mean no longer living?

Does dead mean, "render idle, inactive, inoperative?"

See, no one can reach you because you are never wrong, you can't be wrong! Of course I'm no longer trying to do that!

I'm going to expose your false preaching on every side! That's a promise!

 

[justbyfaith]

Does dead mean, "render idle, inactive, inoperative?"

That is what I believe it means in Romans 6:6, yes.

 

[Charlie24]

That is what I believe it means in Romans 6:6, yes.

What it means is the you are no longer a slave to sin!

Romans 6:14, "sin shall not have dominion over you."

The sin nature is NOT dead, it is not rendered dead, it is rendered inactive.

Don't deny that you have been leading everyone here to believe the sin nature no longer exists after salvation!

 

[justbyfaith]

You have much to learn jbf! But I'm gonna help you with it, now that you have my attention.

I'm gonna show you some special favor, son!

I'm going to expose your false preaching on every side! That's a promise!

Seems to me like you are contradicting yourself here.

Trying to expose my preaching as "false" is not something that I would call "special favour".

Maybe you should start teaching some things on here and I will show you some special favour by exposing it as false.

You have basically "threatened me" with "special favour".

Maybe I should ask the Lord to show you some special favour by ruining your ministry, whatever it might be.

I think I will.

Because if you are setting out to destroy my ministry, I think it is only fair that the Lord should destroy your ministry.

Since the fact that you are opposing me in this manner identifies you as a false teacher from my perspective.

Just as you have identified me as a false teacher because of what I preach, I identify you as a false teacher by virtue of the fact that you reject my doctrine.

Jesus says to me,

Jhn 15:20, Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

and,

1Jo 4:4, Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
1Jo 4:5, They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
1Jo 4:6, We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

And He says to you,

Jhn 8:47, He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

So the Lord destroying your ministry, in doing so He would be doing you a "special favour" because He would be stopping you from preaching a "FALSE and PERVERTED gospel" and thereby preserving your soul from a very real damnation.

Therefore I believe that the Lord will answer such a prayer.

You can also, try to pray the same concerning me...but it will not avail because the gospel I am preaching is TRUE and WHOLESOME...and therefore the Lord is behind me and what I preach 100%.