Once Saved Always Saved

[Ferris Bueller]

My favorite example of the perfect tense is a "rung bell", or, as Paul says, "Have I not seen the risen Lord?" But if that bell ceases to exist, it evidently won't be anything, a rung bell, an unrung bell, nothing.

All actions are historical facts that can not be undone and erased from history as if they never happened. The distinguishing factor of a Perfect tense action is that the results of the action continue up to the present. In the case of the Perfect tense verb of having been made a partaker of Christ, the result continues up to the present IF you keep the beginning of your commitment firm to the end.

For we have become partakers of Christ if we keep the beginning of our commitment firm until the end Hebrews 3:14​

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Surely, that is your definition. And many do have that same definition. That is why, there was need to say “true Christians” today, to be clear as to whom one is talking about about or referring to in a discussion.

Giving a general definition is one way of refraining from judging others in not calling them a Christian, or saying that they are not a Christian.

It can be said that those who are not born again may indeed be a Christian; certainly not saved: but we can most certainly say not that they are not a Christian and violate the rules of the boards, while speaking forth the reality that if they were to continue on in the state that they are in, they will not go to heaven.

There is nothing wrong in giving a general definition. But we must be careful especially when passages such as that you cited are referred to. For it may mislead one to think that the true Christian may be not known by Jesus. And being intentionally careless to present the truth just because we want to avoid any man made rules, I think is not at all commendable nor encouraged. We are to please God rather than men. I know you will agree with me on that.

Tong
R2762

 

[Tong2020]

I do have rewards in mind in the fact that I work the work of the ministry, and I don't think that that is an improper motivation.

If for motivation, no problem. But if for purpose and intention, that is different.

As I said, rewards there will be, regardless.

Tong
R2763

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Here is your lie.
Your lie is to say that i have taught that we dont need to keep believing.
So, that's your lie.
Stop you lying.

You said you do not have to continue to believe in order to be saved.↓↓↓↓

However, if you lose faith, fall away, etc........and you were born again before you did, you are just as saved as the Blood Of Jesus has the power to cleanse you of all sin, including those, and all others..
See, sin was dealt with by God on the Cross, and you denying it, wont change it for me, or for any real believer.
Once you are born again, you are always born again, and how you think or believe, later, has no effect on the NEW BIRTH.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

What i teach is that you dont hold unto your faith to keep yourself saved, as when you do that, you are trusting in your own effort to BELIEVE, when you need to only Trust in God who has already given you eternal life, as proved by being born again.

You're saying, 'don't hold onto your faith, trust in God'. Holding onto your faith IS trusting in God, lol. Continue to believe means continue trusting in God.

So do not throw away your confidence Hebrews 10:35​

 

[Tong2020]

All actions are historical facts that can not be undone and erased from history as if they never happened. The distinguishing factor of a Perfect tense action is that the results of the action continue up to the present. In the case of the Perfect tense verb of having been made a partaker of Christ, the result continues up to the present IF you keep the beginning of your commitment firm to the end.

For we have become partakers of Christ if we keep the beginning of our commitment firm until the end Hebrews 3:14​

Nonetheless, that does not take away the sense of the “if” where it says “if we keep the beginning of our commitment firm until the end”. It would be different as if it says “while or for as long as we keep the beginning of our commitment firm until the end.”

Besides, concerning that passage, the “if” is not really about the matter of continuing to keep but about the firmness or steadfastness of the keeping the beginning of our commitment (confidence in other more literal versions) until the end.

Tong
R2764

 

[Ferris Bueller]

It would be different as if it says “while or for as long as we keep the beginning of our commitment firm until the end.”

It does say that. That's what 'if' means.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Besides, concerning that passage, the “if” is not really about the matter of continuing to keep but about the firmness or steadfastness of the keeping the beginning of our commitment (confidence in other more literal versions) until the end.

How you keep the beginning of your commitment is not the point. The point is that you keep it. But even if how you keep it is the argument the writer is making, that's still a condition to be satisfied to have the continuing result(s) of having been made a partaker of Christ. In fact, you just made it much worse. You just dissed every struggling saint with weak faith, but who have faith, nonetheless.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
It would be different as if it says “while or for as long as we keep the beginning of our commitment firm until the end.”

It does say that. That's what 'if' means.

Oh no sir.

“If” is different from “while” or “for as long as”.

But of course if you want to make them the same, then will so be, but only for you.

Tong
R2769

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Besides, concerning that passage, the “if” is not really about the matter of continuing to keep but about the firmness or steadfastness of the keeping the beginning of our commitment (confidence in other more literal versions) until the end.

How you keep the beginning of your commitment is not the point. The point is that you keep it. But even if how you keep it is the argument the writer is making, that's still a condition to be satisfied to have the continuing result(s) of having been made a partaker of Christ. In fact, you just made it much worse. You just dissed every struggling saint with weak faith, but who have faith, nonetheless.

<<<How you keep the beginning of your commitment is not the point. The point is that you keep it.>>>

You ought to read again then.

Hebrews 3:14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end

While keeping or holding is pointed out, it is really the steadfastness to the end that is the main point and concern of the “if”. For to whom that is told are those who hold such confidence. They are to hold it steadfast to the end, not loosely. For context speaks of a seemingly apparent apostasy of some who in the beginning have professed to have such confidence. See verse 12.

Tong
R2770

 

[Behold]

You said you do not have to continue to believe in order to be saved.↓↓↓↓

Yes, you do not need to continue to do anything, to remain BORN AGAIN.

See, you think that holding unto your faith, is saving you, vs, trusting that God has already saved you.
So, what this means, is that you are not even able to comprehend yet, the most basic understanding of Salvation.
Typical of a Legalist.

 

[Behold]

So do not throw away your confidence Hebrews 10:35​

Yes that verse is a great one.
The born again, are never to lose confidence in the Grace of God.
We are never to "fall from Grace", as you have, and revert back into..>"here is what im doing to try to stay saved".

 

[Behold]

I don't think that the Lord is going to hold me accountable for not listening
Of course my ministry is primarily on these boards and so I will also continue to pour my life into what I am posting here.

The judgment you'll receive is for being a pretender, who is an attention hound, and will say anything to try to avoid responsibility for your previous statements that are found false.

So, listen up, Mr Water + works.
Your day is coming.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Hebrews 3:14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end

While keeping or holding is pointed out, it is really the steadfastness to the end that is the main point and concern of the “if”.

You can think that if you want, but that's still a condition to be satisfied to have the continuing result(s) of having been made a partaker of Christ.

For to whom that is told are those who hold such confidence. They are to hold it steadfast to the end, not loosely. For context speaks of a seemingly apparent apostasy of some who in the beginning have professed to have such confidence. See verse 12.

So now you're saying your interpretation of the verse means not only does falling away into unbelief show you were never a Christian to begin with, but having weak faith that isn't holding firmly in confidence shows you were never a Christian either.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Oh no sir.

“If” is different from “while” or “for as long as”.

But of course if you want to make them the same, then will so be, but only for you.

Tong
R2769

For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end Hebrews 3:14​

At any time before the end, you have the continuing result of your steadfast confidence. You don't have to wait to the end to have the continuing result of having been made a partaker of Christ in your possession right now.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

...and will say anything to try to avoid responsibility for your previous statements that are found false.

When are you going to take responsibility for what you said here?↓↓↓

However, if you lose faith, fall away, etc........and you were born again before you did, you are just as saved as the Blood Of Jesus has the power to cleanse you of all sin, including those, and all others..
See, sin was dealt with by God on the Cross, and you denying it, wont change it for me, or for any real believer.
Once you are born again, you are always born again, and how you think or believe, later, has no effect on the NEW BIRTH.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The born again, are never to lose confidence in the Grace of God.
We are never to "fall from Grace", as you have, and revert back into..>"here is what im doing to try to stay saved".

You never did show us where it says in the Bible that having faith is you trying to save yourself in a self righteous works gospel. Did you try Googling it?

 

[Behold]

When are you going to take responsibility for what you said here?↓↓↓

I dont take responsibility for your inability to be honest, or your lack of understanding of Salvation.
That's all on you.
You are the one who is trying to stay saved by holding onto your faith.
And until you realize that this can't keep you saved, you'll just keep Trolling the Forum.
Nothing new for you.

 

[Behold]

You never did show us where it says in the Bible that having faith is you trying to save yourself

All i have to do is let you talk.
You are showing us the mind of the self saver, the Legalist, the self righteous, who is trying to keep yourself saved by holding unto your faith.
See, its always the Legalistic Theologically backwards, fallen from Grace people like you who are the best examples for me to use.
All i have to do is let you post, and you'll show us everything that is theologically wrong, misguided, and heretical.
The only better example i can use is justbyfaith, and i'll use him later.
You'll do for now.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

All i have to do is let you talk.
You are showing us the mind of the self saver, the Legalist, the self righteous, who is trying to keep yourself saved by holding unto your faith.

Why is anyone who challenges your doctrine labeled a self righteous, self saving legalist? (in this case @Ferris Bueller).

Who taught you to speak this way?

I have never heard anyone proclaim that they saved themselves and were righteous in their own merit, never.