Once Saved Always Saved

[Behold]

Why is anyone who challenges your doctrine labeled a self righteous, self saving legalist? (in this case @Ferris Bueller).
.

You are not understanding something..
Im not actually at odds with the person, im only at odds with their dark theology.
See, you are defined by what you believe, and if you believe wrong, you are wrong.

So, the people who harass me on Forums, have deep issues with God's Grace.
These dark lights think that God's Grace is "License to Sin".
And the reason they do, is because they are self righteous. And in their self righteousness, you find their doctrine and their belief system that is in opposition to the Cross.

What is a self righteous legalist? What is this heretic?
Its simple........its THE person who does not Give God and Christ ALL CREDIT DO THEM ALONE, for saving them, and keeping them Saved.
The heretic will give credit to God and Christ for saving them, but they will not give God and Christ Credit, full credit for keeping them saved.
This is ferris and justbyfaith, and is it you as well? ARe you going to say there is something you have to add to the Blood of Jesus so that you stay saved?
Do you have a list? Do you have your scriptures, all carefully defined by circular reasoning?
All Legalists are like this, so, thats a real INNER issue they have, and its harmful to other Believers.
The LEGALIST, this HERETIC...... they want some of the credit for their salvation, and they take it, and that is their Legalism or their "self saving" theology.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

@Ferris Bueller @justbyfaith (you have been mentioned by @Behold)

What is a self righteous legalist? What is this heretic?
Its simple........its THE person who does not Give God and Christ ALL CREDIT DO THEM ALONE, for saving them, and keeping them Saved

You are in error here. There are many scriptures that teach you how to remain firm in the faith and blameless. Unless you haven’t read your Holy Bible in a while, how is it that you do not see these things?

This is ferris and justbyfaith, and is it you as well? ARe you going to say there is something you have to add to the Blood of Jesus so that you stay saved?
Do you have a list?

Peter had a list:

2 Peter 1:10

• Virtue
• Knowledge
• Temperance
• Patience
• Godliness
• Brotherly Kindness
• Love

Saying:

...give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall.

The LEGALIST, this HERETIC......

Those who have the law written in their hearts (as Christians are supposed to have) wouldn’t be bothered by a legalist.

Because:

1 Timothy 1:9-10
...the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, [10] For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine

You, as a Christian, is supposed to ESTABLISH the law (Romans 3:31).

they want some of the credit for their salvation

No they don’t. That want to be true to the real gospel that teaches:

Titus 2:11-12
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, [12] Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world

 

[Behold]

You are in error here. There are many scriptures that teach you how to remain firm in the faith and blameless.

Who are you trying to kid with your self righteousness?
You can't fool me with it, and you certainly can't fool God, but you can offend Him.

Look at what you are trying to prove.
You are trying to prove you can remain "BLAMELESS" by your self effort, or your thinking process.
So, what are you thinking, Michiah?

The only reason any one of us is BLAMELESS< is the same reason we are sinless, and born again.
Its because GOD has made us RIGHTEOUS.
WE dont do this. HE DID IT.

You actually believe that you can somehow be a part of the Cross?

'behold, im keeping myself saved by my FAITH and my LIFESTYLE".

No, you're not.
You are kept SAVED by the same BLOOD that saved you, or, you are hell bound thinking you are not.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

My oh my. So much to unpack in your baseless, unscriptural diatribe...

Who are you trying to kid with your self righteousness?

I am not “self righteous” and I am not kidding around here.

You can't fool me with it, and you certainly can't fool God, but you can offend Him

Sir, you are the one who has been fooled. It is quite telling that you use NO SCRIPTURES with your writings.

You are trying to prove you can remain "BLAMELESS" by your self effort

No.

I am trying to show WITH SCRIPTURE that you are wrong. But you have been indoctrinated in a way that scripture doesn’t matter one iota; the only thing that matters to YOU is if they are understood with your doctrine in mind.

The only reason any one of us is BLAMELESS< is the same reason we are sinless, and born again.
Its because GOD has made us RIGHTEOUS.

Yes.

But then you must do as the Lord said:

John 5:14
...Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

You actually believe that you can somehow be a part of the Cross?

Yes. Because:

Romans 1:16
...I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth

'behold, im keeping myself saved by my FAITH and my LIFESTYLE".

Yes, because:

Ephesians 5:5-6
For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. [6] Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

Now the question you should ask yourself is:

Have I been deceived with vain words?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I dont take responsibility for your inability to be honest, or your lack of understanding of Salvation.
That's all on you.
You are the one who is trying to stay saved by holding onto your faith.
And until you realize that this can't keep you saved, you'll just keep Trolling the Forum.
Nothing new for you.

Still no explanation, then, for your post?↓↓

However, if you lose faith, fall away, etc........and you were born again before you did, you are just as saved as the Blood Of Jesus has the power to cleanse you of all sin, including those, and all others..
See, sin was dealt with by God on the Cross, and you denying it, wont change it for me, or for any real believer.
Once you are born again, you are always born again, and how you think or believe, later, has no effect on the NEW BIRTH.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

All i have to do is let you post, and you'll show us everything that is theologically wrong, misguided, and heretical.

All I have to do is let you post, and you'll show us everything that is theologically right, guided by truth, and not heretical. But you won't post where it says in the Bible having faith is a self righteous work of the works gospel. Why not?

 

[Behold]

Still no explanation, then, for your post?↓↓

You are the explanation.

You are the self saver that teaches that you can go to hell by not "believing"< which means your savior is your BELIEVING, in your mind.

See, if you were trusting Christ, then you would say....>"Christ keeps me saved".
But you can't say this, without lying., as that is not your belief.

See, i can never Go to hell, because im delivered from the reason that would have sent me there.
And you can't understand this, because you are a "self saver".

 

[Behold]

All I have to do is let you post, and you'll show us everything that is theologically right, guided by truth, and not heretical. But you won't post where it says in the Bible having faith is a self righteous work of the works gospel. Why not?

Faith is not a self righteous work, unless the person, (You) believes that you can lose your salvation if you stop believing.
And when you became that person, you are "fallen from Grace".

Here is your theology.

"behold, as long as i keep believing, i can keep MYSELF out of Hell".

Thats you. - "Self Saver".. Legalist.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Thats you. - "Self Saver".. Legalist.

I’m better off getting me a pack of these and be a “self life-saver” than continuing to discuss this issue with you. I’ll keep them for myself!

 

[Behold]

I’m better off getting me a pack of these and be a “self life-saver” than continuing to discuss this issue with you. I’ll keep them for myself!

View attachment 14255

Well, i have no issue with you leaving.
But before you go, lets find out if you are a legalist, and a heretic.
Ready?
You'll know instantly.
Here is how.

Do you believe that you can lose your salvation?

If so, you are one of those.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

lets find out if you are a legalist, and a heretic.
Ready?

A true heretic teaches contrary to biblical doctrines. You are not using the Bible to judge, so your conclusions are faulty. An heretic in YOUR mind is someone who teaches contrary to YOUR own sectarian tradition.

Do you believe that you can lose your salvation?

Yes, for the scripture says:

2 Timothy 2:12
...if WE deny him, he also will deny US

Here’s a question for you:

Would you be ashamed to:

Allow someone to slap you multiple times?

Give to anyone who asks anything of you?

Love your enemies and pray for them?

Allow someone to steal from you? Moreover, volunteer to give additional personal belongings while being robbed?

Would you be ashamed to teach any of these things?

If yes, then YOU are the heretic and Christ will be ashamed of YOU when he returns!

Mark 8:38
[38] Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

 

[marks]

The distinguishing factor of a Perfect tense action is that the results of the action continue up to the present.

Take a look back and see if this compares with how Paul used it.

And remember what you are doing to the conditional clause.

You keep saying that this verb tense changes whether we're talking about it having happened at all. Not so, that's a misdirection, or your misunderstanding.

The action having been done . . . ignore for the moment whether we are saying it may be undone or not . . . this continues to be your "OSAS" red herring, so put that aside . . . the action having been done, if this other condition exists. If that condition does not exist, that action had not been done.

When you try to show this as the first action continuing or not, it's just not in that passage. Did it happen? Yes or no? That's how this passage addresses it's topic.

So, going in circles here, I'll leave it to the reader. Moving on to another passage.

Take Colossians 3, if you've been raised with Him, you've died with Him, and you shall appear with Him.

Will you really? Or should we disbelieve this passage?

Much love!

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Hebrews 3:14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end

While keeping or holding is pointed out, it is really the steadfastness to the end that is the main point and concern of the “if”.

You can think that if you want, but that's still a condition to be satisfied to have the continuing result(s) of having been made a partaker of Christ.

Not that I want to think that, but it is really just the point emphasized by the verse. I am not by pointing that out, taking away the “if” part.

Tong2020 said: ↑
For to whom that is told are those who hold such confidence. They are to hold it steadfast to the end, not loosely. For context speaks of a seemingly apparent apostasy of some who in the beginning have professed to have such confidence. See verse 12.

So now you're saying your interpretation of the verse means not only does falling away into unbelief show you were never a Christian to begin with, but having weak faith that isn't holding firmly in confidence shows you were never a Christian either.

No sir. My pointing out the point of that verse is not to take away the “if” part.

Tong
R2775

 

[marks]

A gentle reminder, whatever you do, do it all for God and always for God. If rewards proves to get one out of that focus, by all means, forget about them. They will come regardless.

Best left in Jesus' hands, I think!

We focus on so many things, but what do we need to set our mind on other than communing with our God and Savior, and Creator and Lover of our souls?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Not that I want to think that, but it is really just the point emphasized by the verse. I am not by pointing that out, taking away the “if” part.

Ah . . . so now it's you receiving the innuendos of intellectual dishonesty.

It does go around! I like your patient answer!

Much love!

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Oh no sir.

“If” is different from “while” or “for as long as”.

But of course if you want to make them the same, then will so be, but only for you.

For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end Hebrews 3:14​

At any time before the end, you have the continuing result of your steadfast confidence. You don't have to wait to the end to have the continuing result of having been made a partaker of Christ in your possession right now.

No objection there. However, that is only true or is the case for the true Christian. It is not true for the hypocrite and the false believer and the nominal Christian.

Tong
R2776

 

[marks]

You never did show us where it says in the Bible that having faith is you trying to save yourself in a self righteous works gospel. Did you try Googling it?

You are changing it. Not "having faith" as say here, you preach, unless you maintain your faith you will lose your salvation, whatever it is you call salvation, I still don't understand that.

That you might hold onto, or you might let go of "your faith", and the outcome of that question, not something else, will determine whether you are "saved" at the end.

But this truly calls into question, what do you mean when you say "saved"?

What does justification mean to you?

It is in name only? In practical application to our nature? What does it mean to you?

To me, justification speaks of our joining Jesus in His death and resurrection, so that we are born again from death to life, born of God, no longer from the line of Adam, now born of God. Sin is left with the man born from Adam, and we are born of God. Guilt is left with the man born from Adam, and we are born of God.

While we once derived our life from the fleshy man born of Adam, now we derive our life from the Spirit of Christ within us. That which is born of God sins not. Therefore there is no condemnation.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I have never heard anyone proclaim that they saved themselves and were righteous in their own merit, never.

For some, I'd say it's "in so many words", for others, perhaps for @Ferris Bueller , he simply hasn't thought through the implications of what he asserts, that if you do the work, you earn the reward.

God grants righteousness and rebirth for our believing His message to us. The Scripture consitently shows this to be a transaction between man and God, "he believed God, and God accounted it to him for righteousness". That 'believing God' is consistently portrayed in the Bible as something from which good works follow, and something from which enduring faith follows, but, here's the key point, don't determine.

The good works that follow real saving faith, the enduring believing that follows real saving faith, neither of these are what determine whether or not there was real saving faith, and whether or not God gave us new birth, born from above.

That is when we believe God, and He accounts it to us for righteousness. And then does what He didn't do yet for Abraham, begets us Himself, now His begotten sons and daughters.

Having believed, having been reborn, we go on to do good works, we go on to endure in our faith, because we are true.

Much love!

 

[Tong2020]

Ah . . . so now it's you receiving the innuendos of intellectual dishonesty.

It does go around! I like your patient answer!

Much love!

2 Tim.2:25 Opponents must be gently instructed, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth,

Just trying my best to not let the opportunity to apply the truths I learned in my reading and study of God’s words in scriptures, be wasted.

Thanks and praise be to God!

Tong
R2777

 

[GRACE ambassador]

I have never heard anyone proclaim that they saved themselves and were righteous in their own merit, never.

hmm, let's see: "IF I Continue believing, I WILL BE SAVED!"
How is this claiming "what I did," not "by MY OWN merit"?:

"...that no flesh should glory In HIS Presence. But Of HIM are ye in Christ Jesus,
Who of God Is Made unto us wisdom, and Righteousness, and sanctification, and
Redemption: That, According As It Is Written, He that glorieth, let him glory
In The LORD." (1 Corinthians 1 : 29-31 KJB!)

cp:

"But God, Who Is RICH IN MERCY, for HIS GREAT LOVE Wherewith HE
LOVED us, Even when we were dead in sins, HATH QUICKENED us together
With CHRIST, ( BY GRACE Are ye SAVED: ) And hath raised us up together,
and made us sit together in heavenly places IN CHRIST JESUS: That in the
ages to come HE Might Shew The EXCEEDING RICHES Of HIS GRACE in HIS
KINDNESS TOWARD us Through CHRIST JESUS. For By GRACE Are ye SAVED
through faith; and that NOT OF yourSELVES: it is THE GIFT of God: Not of
works, LEST any man SHOULD BOAST." (Ephesians 2 : 4-9 KJB!)

cp:

"Where is boasting then? IT IS EXCLUDED. By what law? of works?
Nay: but by the law of faith." (Romans 3 : 27 KJB!)

Sounds Plain And Clear enough to me:

Eternal Life Is BY HIS GRACE {UNmerited FAVOR!},
upon our ONE-TIME humble submission To HIM, in faith, Correct?:

According to MY MERIT of glorying in "continued belief"? OR:

"In WHOM we Have Redemption Through HIS BLOOD, The FORGIVENESS
of sins, According TO THE RICHES OF HIS GRACE!" (Ephesians 1 : 7 KJB!)

?See you in In God's Great GloryLand!! ♫ ↑