Once Saved Always Saved

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
@justbyfaith, @Blood Bought 1953

Concerning Romans 10:13...

One ought to realize that it is a given that whoever calls the name of the LORD is a believer and have faith in the LORD.

It is not as though that the passage could apply to the unbeliever. That would be foolish to think like so, I should say. And even if there are unbelievers who calls the name of the LORD for whatever reason they call, I don’t think they will be saved, unless they believe in God and in Him whom He sent, Jesus Christ.

When the verse is paraphrased as "Whoever asks to be saved, will be saved" the paraphrase in question implies that a man can come to God apart from faith in Jesus Christ.

No matter how you wish to paraphrase that, you can not take away that the given that the one who calls or ask in the name of the LORD is a believer or have faith in the LORD.

Read the immediately following verse, Romans 10:14 and listen to what Paul will tell you regarding that.

Tong2020 said: ↑
Tell me, how does one who is in a state of death, being dead to God, do anything pertaining to the things of the Spirit of God?

God enables him with his drawing power.

God enabling him to make a decision to either receive or reject Christ, does not guarantee that the person will receive Christ, is what I am saying. The person must volitionally receive Him in order to be saved.

Otherwise, if you once felt you were drawn to Christ, you were saved; even though you may have rejected Him.

Whatever and however you may call it, any enabling of one dead could be nothing but a quickening or making alive.

Tong2020 said: ↑
Regarding John 1:12, I also have already shown you the misuse of that verse.

No, you have not.

Read verse 13. John describes there who are the them that believe in verse 12.

Tong2020 said: ↑
So I ask again, who are the “them” that believe, according to John? Tell us please.

Answer me this, and I will also answer you: what comes first according to John 1:12? Receiving and believing; or becoming a child of God?

John was not telling us what comes first JBF. John in v.13 tells us who the “them” in v.12 who believed. He is not in v.13 speaking about a becoming or being born of God.

Tong
R2781

 

[justbyfaith]

No matter how you wish to paraphrase that, you can not take away that the given that the one who calls or ask in the name of the LORD is a believer or have faith in the LORD.

Nevertheless, no one can come to the LORD except through faith in Jesus Christ; and @Blood Bought 1953's paraphrase doesn't include that basic truth in what it says.

Whatever and however you may call it, any enabling of one dead could be nothing but a quickening or making alive.

If anyone followed this conversation, let them know that such a thing is heresy; for it implies that a person can reject Christ and yet be saved. In that a person who is drawn to Christ and yet reject Christ; but your doctrine says that in being drawn, they were regenerated (born again). Therefore the person who is drawn to Christ but rejects Christ will go to heaven even though they rejected Christ.

Read verse 13. John describes there who are the them that believe in verse 12.

Nevertheless, believing and receiving come first.

 

[marks]

It's true in every case.....every case where the Holy Spirit continues to dwell because of one's continued believing.

Again, you are changing the text, adding your own ideas into it.

If it were as you say, this would not be true in every case:

Colossians 3:1-4 KJV
1) If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2) Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3) For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4) When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

True in every case exactly as written.

IF you've risen with Christ, you SHALL also appear with Him in glory.

Not, If you continue to believe, that's not written there. Nor is, If you don't turn blue. Or, if you don't become a Methodist. Or whatever other condition you might try to add.

Stay with what is written, and if your doctrine doesn't agree, don't change the Bible, change your doctrine.

The same truth appears in this passage:

1 John 3:1-3 KJV
1) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3) And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

We can know this, not in some self-deluded way, as if "Yes, we know we will be like Him, except, maybe we won't, because maybe we won't be able to keep believing."

Either you know something that is true, or you don't. Either you believe this passage AS WRITTEN, or you don't.

Much love!

 

[marks]

No matter how you wish to paraphrase that, you can not take away that the given that the one who calls or ask in the name of the LORD is a believer or have faith in the LORD.

People wriggle and squirm trying to avoid the simplicity of what is Written.

And the truth is so liberating!!

Much love!

 

[justbyfaith]

People wriggle and squirm trying to avoid the simplicity of what is Written.

And the truth is so liberating!!

Much love!

What truth?

That we can be saved apart from faith in Jesus Christ?

That is not the truth; that is a dangerous lie.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

How did it get this bad in the church?

Great Question! Probably because of disobedience to 2 Timothy 2 : 15 KJB!

Not Rightly Dividing, But Wrongly Combining TWO Different gospels into ONE!:

See #'s 5 and 6 in my signature - God Bless!

 

[Wynona]

One time, I tried to go back and read every past post in a long thread like this one. I never made it! So I won't try to read every single post in this one.

That being said, I want to respond to what Pearl said.

Maybe it is but my point is once you are born you can't be unborn. And whatever you do, even denying Jesus we remain his children and he never stops loving us and welcoming us back when we see the error of our ways. Don't forget that Peter denied Jesus three times but he was forgiven.

You may not be able to be unborn but you can still die.

Its true that Peter was restored when he saw the error of his ways but it was Jesus Himself who said Matthew 10:33


33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.


But what if a believer sins and doesn't see the error of their ways? What if they don't repent? Does God not warn them?

Romans 11:22

22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

 

[Taken]

It's true in every case.....every case where the Holy Spirit continues to dwell because of one's continued believing.

The Holy Spirit continues to INDWELL...
Because God Promised He would NEVER LEAVE a "Converted" man.

The Belief of a "Converted" man Continues...
By Gods INDWELLING POWER.

 

[justbyfaith]

The Holy Spirit continues to INDWELL...
Because God Promised He would NEVER LEAVE a "Converted" man.

The Belief of a "Converted" man Continues...
By Gods INDWELLING POWER.

Yes, the law, which was 430 years after the promise of the Spirit, does not make the promise of none effect (Galatians 3:17). In other words, our violation of the law, if our hearts are right and it is not willful disobedience, the Holy Spirit isn't going to leave us over it.

 

[Taken]

Yes, the law, which was 430 years after the promise of the Spirit, does not make the promise of none effect (Galatians 3:17). In other words, our violation of the law, if our hearts are right and it is not willful disobedience, the Holy Spirit isn't going to leave us over it.

"Your" Violation of "WHAT" Law?

 

[Taken]

Again, you are changing the text, adding your own ideas into it.

If it were as you say, this would not be true in every case:

Colossians 3:1-4 KJV
1) If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2) Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3) For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4) When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

True in every case exactly as written.

IF you've risen with Christ, you SHALL also appear with Him in glory.

Not, If you continue to believe, that's not written there. Nor is, If you don't turn blue. Or, if you don't become a Methodist. Or whatever other condition you might try to add.

Stay with what is written, and if your doctrine doesn't agree, don't change the Bible, change your doctrine.

The same truth appears in this passage:

1 John 3:1-3 KJV
1) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3) And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

We can know this, not in some self-deluded way, as if "Yes, we know we will be like Him, except, maybe we won't, because maybe we won't be able to keep believing."

Either you know something that is true, or you don't. Either you believe this passage AS WRITTEN, or you don't.

Much love!

Some people continue to "THINK", they are KEPT "in Belief", by their own power.

Making a FREEWILL decision to SUBMIT to the Lord God....IS EXPRESSLY authorizing God to HAVE FULL POWER over the mans spiritual Life...That Gods Power does the KEEPING.

 

[justbyfaith]

"Your" Violation of "WHAT" Law?

In the past, I have not measured up fully to Matthew 5:27-30.

Doing better in recent days.

But I know that I still need to heed the warning of 1 Corinthians 10:12-13.

 

[justbyfaith]

Some people continue to "THINK", they are KEPT "in Belief", by their own power.

We do keep ourselves (1 John 5:18) by the power of God (1 Peter 1:5).

 

[Behold]

A true heretic teaches contrary to biblical doctrines.

Im teaching you Pauline Theology.
Go and look it up, and learn to hear it, and then you'll be able to get away from the dark lights, and follow the real Lights.
But not until.

 

[Behold]

I am no pretender; but in saying that I am, you have three fingers pointing back at you (Matthew 7:1-5, Luke 6:41-42)

Ive read your theology.
Its anti-Cross.
You are the gospel of water + works.
Galatians 1:8

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The passage itself is whether or not that action occurred.

You have become a partaker IF . . .

He would have used the Aorist tense to say that, not the Perfect tense. The Aorist tense is what signifies that an action has occurred. The Perfect tense signifies that an action has occurred with results continuing up to the present. And so he's saying you have the continuing effect of being made a partaker of Christ (Perfect tense) if you continue in your faith. He's not saying you have the completed action of partaking in Christ (Aorist tense) if you continue in your faith.

It does not say, for example, You remain a partaker if . . . Though apparently that would be more useful to your doctrine.

It's not that it's more useful to my doctrine. It's what it says. The verb tense the writer chose makes the conditional statement about whether the continuing effect of the completed action is continuing up to the present or not, and he says it does if you continue to believe as you did from the beginning. You're changing the tense of the verb to the Aorist tense thereby making the conditional statement about whether the completed action itself of partaking of Christ has occurred or not.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Ive read your theology.
Its anti-Cross.
You are the gospel of water + works.

He knows no obedience to a ceremony of cleansing has the power in and of itself to make a person righteous. He knows faith in Christ is what cleanses the heart.

 

[Taken]

We do keep ourselves (1 John 5:18) by the power of God (1 Peter 1:5).

We do keep ourselves (1 John 5:18)

Disagree.

1 John 5:18
[18a] We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not;

^ That is speaking about a BORN AGAIN EARTHLY MAN.

[18 b] but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself,

^ That is speaking about Christ Jesus, NOT Human men.

Christ Jesus IS THE ONLY, Begotton of God.
Christ IS the Power of God.
Christ KEEPS HIMSELF.
Born Again Human men, ARE KEPT BY the Power of God.

[18 c] and that wicked one toucheth him not.

^ That is speaking about Christ Jesus, is NOT Touched (influenced or tricked) by that wicked one.

 

[Daniel Veler]

Those who Agee or disagree have not understood eternal life. They have not understood psalm 89. If they understood either they would understand correctly. Alway ask God for understanding and not the opinion of others.

 

[Taken]

In the past, I have not measured up fully to Matthew 5:27-30.

Doing better in recent days.

But I know that I still need to heed the warning of 1 Corinthians 10:12-13.

A "Converted" man "IN" Christ has already,
"Measured up"... for his "Reasonable Service".
He Accepted Gods OFFERING...on Gods Terms.
He "Freely" Confessed, having NOT believed,
(Repented)
and THEN "Freely" Confessed Heartful Belief.
He "Freely" Gave His own life, unto Death, crucified with Christ.
He "Freely" Accepted the Lord MAKING him "changed".
He "Freely" Accepted the Lord KEEPING him
"Changed".

Rom 12:
[1] I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

Thereafter....there is a multitude of WORKS a converted man "CAN DO"...TO GLORIFY Gods Great Name.

Such Works...DO NOT, give "MORE" measure to your Salvation.
Your Salvation is a Done deal, and can not become "undone".

Works you "DO", that "DO" Glorify Gods Great Name....Shall be JUDGED, worthy of a REWARD, given you, FROM GOD.

Works you "DO", that "DO NOT" Glorify Gods Great Name...Shall be JUDGED, Unworthy of a REWARD...and simply BURNED. <---
* There IS NO NEGATIVE Judgement AGAINST a CONVERTED man.
* A Converted man HAS fulfilled his Reasonable Service.
* A Converted man IS KEPT Converted, BY the Power of God.

Works...are UP TO YOU.
As a Converted man...YOU ARE "PREPARED" TO DO WORKS to Glorify Gods Great Name...

Converted men...all day long DO WORKS, that Glorify Gods Great Name....AND DO WORKS...the DO NOT Glorify Gods Great Name.
For example:
* IF you are Giving Aid/Charity TO the less fortunate, and Giving God the Credit, TO HAVE something TO GIVE...Your Works Glorify His Great Name.
* IF you are Giving Aid/Charity TO the less fortunate, through Compulsion of A forced Tax, you are NOT Glorifying God, you are NOT Giving from your heart, you are giving Because you are Forced...the Giving to the Government, who THEN doles out the AID...
IS Accredited to the Government...NOT GOD.

THAT ^ is a prime difference between;
The Political terms...
Socialism and Capitalism.
* Socialism promotes Forced compulsion of men giving their wealth and assets TO the Government, and the Government Decides WHO they say can receive, how much, and the Government receives the Credit for the giving.
- Society that GIVES calls this ^ A dreaded Burden. (Theft under "color" of law.)
- Society that RECEIVES calls this ^ A FREEBIE.
* Capitalism promotes Individuals give to whom they choose, and Accredit their ability to Give, TO God.
Scripture calls this ^ Charity of Cheerfully giving.