Brakelite
Well-Known Member
Amen. When God gave Christ to the human race, it was an eternal gift. The Son of God is forever intimately connected to humanity through His own human nature.
The Absolute Equality of Jesus With The Father
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Brakelite
Well-Known Member
Show me one person on this planet who can explain fully the nature of the Godhead without any presumption or assumption.
I put it to you that no-one can fully explain it understand that which is infinite. Much less should anyone declare to another... You misunderstand the trinity. Uh, duh. Of course I do. Who doesn't??
Jostler
Well-Known Member
Luke 24:39 NKJV — “Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.”
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
You contradict yourself with these two quotes. You correctly state that begotten means unique offspring. Not created, but brought forth. Then you say in the second quote that the one brought forth... The one begotten... Is the same person as the one who begat. Can you clarify please?
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no, "μονογενής", literally means "one of a kind", and has nothing to do with any "begetting" of "offspring". Where do you see any contradiction in what I have said?
The Bible is very clear on the God of the Holy Bible. That there is One God, or Godhead. And this Godhead is eternally of Three distinct Persons, Who are in the Bible known as YHWH. This means that the Three are uncreated, unchanging, coequal, coessential and coeternal. There is no "ranks" in the Trinity, as though the Father is "primary", Jesus "secondary", and the Holy Spirit, even "lower". The fact that The Three are YHWH, shows their absolute equal Deity. All of this is in the Bible.
Jesus was the father on earth. In praying I believe Jesus taught Christians how to pray. And in doing so when his miracles happened, showed them that prayer does serve.
The flesh,bone and blood man God knitted together in the womb of Mary and for the purpose of his good will was nailed to the cross.
That form was both of and from God. Created of God, who was with his people, Immanuel. And Immanuel was indwelt with the spirit of God. Which is why he performed the works of God, miracles, to the people watching them.
In those times blood sacrifice covered sins according to Jewish tradition.
Jesus, Immanuel, poured his blood out on that last and final altar to sin, the cross. Taking the sins of the world upon himself there.
That whomsoever believeth in him shall never perish in their sins, but shall have immortal life.
Just as he proved when, seemingly crucified to death on the cross as many a mortal were in those days, he conquered the tomb three days later and walked among his people. Continuing to teach and lead them to the truth of God for another 40 days.
And not a member of the temple, nor the Roman authorities, laid a hand upon him nor even appeared to know he, that man they killed as they had soany others, was alive and preaching still.
That's God.
You said, "Jesus was the father on earth", which is IMPOSSIBLE. The Father and Jesus Christ are TWO DISTINCT PERSONS.
Jostler
Well-Known Member
John 14:9 NKJV — Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
The “or” part is a total invention. Like the trinity, “Godhead” is not to be found in the monotheist text of the Bible.
Philip was here doubting the Authority of Jesus' claim that He is THE Way, Truth and Life
Jesus is here responding to Philip's question in verse 8, "Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.”"
In the passage, it is clear that Jesus is NOT saying that He and the Father are one and the same Person. In verse 7 Jesus says, "If ye had known me, ye would have known my Father also: from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him". Here, as elsewhere, Jesus speaks of "the Father" in the third person, which can hardly be meaning Himself! Jesus' words to Philip are a rebuke, as Philip here was doubting what Jesus was saying, and supposed that the Father was a greater Authority, and asked to "see Him". Jesus' response is clear, there is no difference between Himself and the Father, as though by asking about the Father, this was a "greater" thing to do. If God the Father were to become Incarnate, He would even look no different to Jesus Christ. There are many examples showing that there is a clear distinction between the Father and Jesus. In the very first verse of John's Gospel, we read, "the Word was WITH God (the Father)". In the Greek, "πρός", which is, "on the side of", "near to",etc. In John 10:30 Jesus says, "I and the Father are one". Which is clear in the Greek, "εγω και ο πατηρ εν εσμεν", literally, "I and the Father WE are one". The masculine plural, which can hardly mean on and the same person! In John 14:10-11, Jesus says, "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.". Because both the Father and Jesus Christ are ONE and the same NATURE, as Almighty God. In verse 12 Jesus says, "οτι εγω προς τον πατερα μου πορευομαι", literally, "because I go to My Father's side". same Greek preposition used in 1:1, "πρός". Again, quite impossible to mean that Jesus and the Father are the SAME PERSON. This is shown not ot be the case by very careful Greek grammar
Romans 1:20, " For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse".
from "θειότης", "the Divine Nature", as was used by the Greek philosopher, Plutarch, in the first century A.D.
Webster's English dictionary says of "Godhead", "divine nature or essence", Definition of GODHEAD
Jostler
Well-Known Member
and I never have claimed Jesus and Father are the same "person"...they are not....they are One. Yet Jesus is subordinate to the Father....by Will, submitted to Father's authority.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Sad reliance on a trinitarian corrupted translation. From a literal translation of the verse.
Romans 1:20
New Revised Standard Version
20 Ever since the creation of the world his eternal power and divine nature, invisible though they are, have been understood and seen through the things he has made. So they are without excuse;
Yes, I did say that.
Nothing is impossible for God."I and the father are one."
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