Faith is not enough

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Heart2Soul

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theefaith, your posts are too long to get into for me....furthermore, imho it isn't in context about faith but rather sacrament.
I am not a Catholic and therefore am not familiar with sacrament according to the doctrine of the Catholic faith...(which is a doctrine man made).
I believe faith is the foundation for believing in God, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
I believe Jesus is the author and finisher of my faith.
I believe to each of us is given a measure of faith.
I believe in the Gift of Faith given by the Holy Spirit.
I believe faith without works is dead...in other words...if I stand on a scripture as truth then I have a measure of faith to believe it will be done according to what it says....I can heal the sick, raise the dead..etc.
Jesus said let it be according to your faith....
Faith is the substance (the vital component) of things hoped for,
The evidence (the product of, the result of, the proof of) things not yet seen.

Faith is unique to each of us. Some have faith for supernatural healing while others have faith to be treated by doctors.
Sacrament has never been a part of my faith. But yet my faith has allowed me to experience many supernatural events from God/Holy Spirit.
My faith is in Him alone.
 

dev553344

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“Faith alone” sacraments are necessary

Not only sacraments are necessary but also charity:

1 Corinthians 13:2
“And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.”
 

Amazed@grace

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Faith without the sacraments makes you a catechumen not a believer

sacraments are promised by God!



The promise (sacred oath or sacrament) of the Father acts 2:38-39 with reference to ez 36:25-27

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.

Heb 7:21 For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
(Oath = sacrament)

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. Based on Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:



A promise is a sacred oath or sacrament!
Baptismal regeneration is the promise of the Father for union in the new covenant!

The church and the seven sacraments are necessary for salvation

Better covenant on better promises

2 Timothy 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,

Life of supernatural grace merited by Christ in His passion and death!

An oath to sacramental life in the new covenant in union with the mediator and communion with God, and the saints!

Promise of the Father acts 2:23-39
Promise is an oath and an oath is a sacrament! This promise of the sacrament of baptism refers to ez. 36:25-27

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)

Jn 1:5-5 abide in Him, apart from Him you can do nothing.

Jn 10:10 life (grace more abundantly)
All true.
For Catholics.
 

Gary Urban

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So you only think grace is extended to those who believe in Catholic doctrine, but not protestant? Is that the point you are making?

Doctrine of men or doctrine of God ?

Catholics say that only this queen entity that they named Mary received the fullnes of grace everyone else a unknown remnant and they must keep suffering in a unkown place caled purgatory even after they take thier last breath of oxygen for another unknown remnant.

I call it the doctrine of wondering, wondering . . never coming to the knowlegde of truth the salvation of ones soul.
 

theefaith

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So you only think grace is extended to those who believe in Catholic doctrine, but not protestant? Is that the point you are making?

grace comes only thru christ and his church (his sacrament life) Jn 10:10
 

Gary Urban

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mid baptism necessary for Salvation???

I would say it necessary to get wet.

I would offer. We should be careful on how we hear or say we do. It’s easy to forget we walk by faith the unseen eternal and not after what the eyes see the temporal.

Believers are born again of the water of the word the doctrines of God. Water seen the temporal defines the unseen work of the Holy Spirit who works in mankind to both will reveal and empower them to do His good pleasure .
Water and the word or water as if it was the word of faith all one thing.

Deuteronomy 32:2 My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:

Surely God is not H20

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

H20 evaporates, Water baptism has its foundation in the Old Testament ceremonial a shadow of the unseen it is used when one had a personal desire to join the teaching ministry of priests .

Aaron’s two sons desired to glorify their own self as some kind of sign to those watching .”Look at us we did it, it proves God had favor”.

Offering strange fire to edify oneself proved to be self-righteous disaster .They were consumed by fire as ashes the ceremonial clothing not a scent of smoke.

It does not have its foundation in the new testament .

Leviticus 10;1-5 King James Version (KJV) And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the Lord, which he commanded them not. And there went out fire from the Lord, and devoured them, and they died before the Lord. Then Moses said unto Aaron, This is it that the Lord spake, saying, I will be sanctified in them that come nigh me, and before all the people I will be glorified. And Aaron held his peace. And Moses called Mishael and Elzaphan, the sons of Uzziel the uncle of Aaron, and said unto them, Come near, carry your brethren from before the sanctuary out of the camp. So they went near, and carried them in their coats out of the camp; as Moses had said.
 

Gary Urban

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grace comes only thru christ and his church (his sacrament life) Jn 10:10

Grace comes through Christ alone the author and finisher. the Just and justifier of those born from above (not H20) from earth (it evaporates ).

All believer receive the fulnes of Christ's grace the end of faith the savation of ones new born again soul . . .Christ's understanding working in them . It does not come from some mystical Queen of heaven that Catholics teach as Mary received the fulness of grace alone while the rest of humanity a unknow remnant and they must continue to suffer , suffer, suffer (puragtory) even after they take thier last breath for still another unknow . The doctrine of wondering never coming to the end of faith salavtion
 

theefaith

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I would say it necessary to get wet.

I would offer. We should be careful on how we hear or say we do. It’s easy to forget we walk by faith the unseen eternal and not after what the eyes see the temporal.

Believers are born again of the water of the word the doctrines of God. Water seen the temporal defines the unseen work of the Holy Spirit who works in mankind to both will reveal and empower them to do His good pleasure .
Water and the word or water as if it was the word of faith all one thing.

Deuteronomy 32:2 My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:

Surely God is not H20

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

H20 evaporates, Water baptism has its foundation in the Old Testament ceremonial a shadow of the unseen it is used when one had a personal desire to join the teaching ministry of priests .

Aaron’s two sons desired to glorify their own self as some kind of sign to those watching .”Look at us we did it, it proves God had favor”.

Offering strange fire to edify oneself proved to be self-righteous disaster .They were consumed by fire as ashes the ceremonial clothing not a scent of smoke.

It does not have its foundation in the new testament .

Leviticus 10;1-5 King James Version (KJV) And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the Lord, which he commanded them not. And there went out fire from the Lord, and devoured them, and they died before the Lord. Then Moses said unto Aaron, This is it that the Lord spake, saying, I will be sanctified in them that come nigh me, and before all the people I will be glorified. And Aaron held his peace. And Moses called Mishael and Elzaphan, the sons of Uzziel the uncle of Aaron, and said unto them, Come near, carry your brethren from before the sanctuary out of the camp. So they went near, and carried them in their coats out of the camp; as Moses had said.

ez 36 25:27

And Mk 16:16

and

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
 

theefaith

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Grace comes through Christ alone the author and finisher. the Just and justifier of those born from above (not H20) from earth (it evaporates ).

All believer receive the fulnes of Christ's grace the end of faith the savation of ones new born again soul . . .Christ's understanding working in them . It does not come from some mystical Queen of heaven that Catholics teach as Mary received the fulness of grace alone while the rest of humanity a unknow remnant and they must continue to suffer , suffer, suffer (puragtory) even after they take thier last breath for still another unknow . The doctrine of wondering never coming to the end of faith salavtion

ez 36 25:27 acts 2:38 Mk 16:16
 

theefaith

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Yes, I know. Catholic, the scriptural sense as pertains to universal, is separate and apart from what came later as the Roman Catholic church.

the church came 1st founded by Christ on Peter matt 16:18
One church Jn 10:16
 

Heart2Soul

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grace comes only thru christ and his church (his sacrament life) Jn 10:10
Please let us look at John 10....this is the ESV translation
grace comes only thru christ ......and his church (his sacrament life) Jn 10:10

This teaching that Jesus gave isn't about grace....its about knowing Him as your shepard and not following false prophets, teachers and pastors....there is only one door with which the Shepard stands and the sheep follows His voice only....this chapter is about the Shepard and the Sheep.....or about Jesus and those who believe and follow Him....not hearing any voice other than his...

This is the ESV translation
I Am the Good Shepherd
10 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door but climbs in by another way, that man is a thief and a robber.
2 But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
3 To him the gatekeeper opens. The sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.
4 When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice.
5 A stranger they will not follow, but they will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.”
6 This figure of speech Jesus used with them, but they adid not understand what he was saying to them.

7 So Jesus again said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep.
8 All who came before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them.
9 I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture.

10 The thief comes only to steal and ekill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly.
11 fI am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.
12 He who is a hired hand and not a shepherd, who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and ileaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them.
13 He flees because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep.
14 I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me,
15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16 And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and tthey will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.
17 For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again.
18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father.”
 

Heart2Soul

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I like Matthew Henry's Commentary about scripture....
concerning John 10....
Matthew Henry’s Bible Commentary (concise)
<< John 9 | John 10 | John 11 >>
(Read all of John 10)
Complete Concise

Chapter Contents
The parable of the good shepherd. (1-5) Christ the Door. (6-9) Christ the good Shepherd. (10-18) The Jews' opinion concerning Jesus. (19-21) His discourse at the feast of dedication. (22-30) The Jews attempt to stone Jesus. (31-38) He departs from Jerusalem. (39-42)

Commentary on John 10:1-5
(Read John 10:1-5)

Here is a parable or similitude, taken from the customs of the East, in the management of sheep. Men, as creatures depending on their Creator, are called the sheep of his pasture. The church of God in the world is as a sheep-fold, exposed to deceivers and persecutors. The great Shepherd of the sheep knows all that are his, guards them by his providence, guides them by his Spirit and word, and goes before them, as the Eastern shepherds went before their sheep, to set them in the way of his steps. Ministers must serve the sheep in their spiritual concerns. The Spirit of Christ will set before them an open door. The sheep of Christ will observe their Shepherd, and be cautious and shy of strangers, who would draw them from faith in him to fancies about him.

Commentary on John 10:6-9
(Read John 10:6-9)

Many who hear the word of Christ, do not understand it, because they will not. But we shall find one scripture expounding another, and the blessed Spirit making known the blessed Jesus. Christ is the Door. And what greater security has the church of God than that the Lord Jesus is between it and all its enemies? He is a door open for passage and communication. Here are plain directions how to come into the fold; we must come in by Jesus Christ as the Door. By faith in him as the great Mediator between God and man. Also, we have precious promises to those that observe this direction. Christ has all that care of his church, and every believer, which a good shepherd has of his flock; and he expects the church, and every believer, to wait on him, and to keep in his pasture.

Commentary on John 10:10-18
(Read John 10:10-18)

Christ is a good Shepherd; many who were not thieves, yet were careless in their duty, and by their neglect the flock was much hurt. Bad principles are the root of bad practices. The Lord Jesus knows whom he has chosen, and is sure of them; they also know whom they have trusted, and are sure of Him. See here the grace of Christ; since none could demand his life of him, he laid it down of himself for our redemption. He offered himself to be the Saviour; Lo, I come. And the necessity of our case calling for it, he offered himself for the Sacrifice. He was both the offerer and the offering, so that his laying down his life was his offering up himself. From hence it is plain, that he died in the place and stead of men; to obtain their being set free from the punishment of sin, to obtain the pardon of their sin; and that his death should obtain that pardon. Our Lord laid not his life down for his doctrine, but for his sheep.

Commentary on John 10:19-21
(Read John 10:19-21)

Satan ruins many, by putting them out of conceit with the word and ordinances. Men would not be laughed out of their necessary food, yet suffer themselves thus to be laughed out of what is far more necessary. If our zeal and earnestness in the cause of Christ, especially in the blessed work of bringing his sheep into his fold, bring upon us evil names, let us not heed it, but remember our Master was thus reproached before us.

Commentary on John 10:22-30
(Read John 10:22-30)

All who have any thing to say to Christ, may find him in the temple. Christ would make us to believe; we make ourselves doubt. The Jews understood his meaning, but could not form his words into a full charge against him. He described the gracious disposition and happy state of his sheep; they heard and believed his word, followed him as his faithful disciples, and none of them should perish; for the Son and the Father were one. Thus he was able to defend his sheep against all their enemies, which proves that he claimed Divine power and perfection equally with the Father.

Commentary on John 10:31-38
(Read John 10:31-38)

Christ's works of power and mercy proclaim him to be over all, God blessed for evermore, that all may know and believe He is in the Father, and the Father in Him. Whom the Father sends, he sanctifies. The holy God will reward, and therefore will employ, none but such as he makes holy. The Father was in the Son, so that by Divine power he wrought his miracles; the Son was so in the Father, that he knew the whole of His mind. This we cannot by searching find out to perfection, but we may know and believe these declarations of Christ.

Commentary on John 10:39-42
(Read John 10:39-42)

No weapon formed against our Lord Jesus shall prosper. He escaped, not because he was afraid to suffer, but because his hour was not come. And He who knew how to deliver himself, knows how to deliver the godly our of their temptations, and to make a way for them to escape. Persecutors may drive Christ and his gospel our of their own city or country, but they cannot drive him or it out of the world. When we know Christ by faith in our hearts, we find all that the Scripture saith of him is true.