'Holiness' Christians

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Hidden In Him

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I can only say, from personal experience and from Scripture, that it is far better and proper to preach only that which is written, and then allow one another to work out our own salvation for ourselves.

I agree.
"And he said unto me, Son of man, go, get thee unto the house of Israel, and speak with my words unto them. But the house of Israel will not hearken unto thee; for they will not hearken unto me: for all the house of Israel are impudent and hardhearted." (Ezekiel 3)

Boy, this is about right, isn't it. I have been in churches where the Pastor preached on gossip, and then later invited me to preach and I preached on it even stronger, and yet STILL the people who were engaging in it never stopped; never even slowed down, LoL. Remlnds me of what James said about no man can tame the tongue, cuz try as we might we couldn't get that mess to stop.
It is not the preacher's 'job' to expect nor to get anyone to do anything.

It's why I'm glad I don't pastor, because often times they don't.
I have 2 questions:

1. What place, as fellow ministers and witnesses and saints in the body of Christ, when it comes to serving others do we have in the carry-out pizza business of the Father?

2. Is the Father's business the 'people business'?

I was just mentioning in another thread that when I first got born again I prayed Solomon's prayer from a pure desire just to want to minister to God's people. I didn't care for money or for building a "ministry" or a title. I just wanted to teach them accurately.

Maybe that goes to your questions, I don't know.
 

robert derrick

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I agree.


Boy, this is about right, isn't it. I have been in churches where the Pastor preached on gossip, and then later invited me to preach and I preached on it even stronger, and yet STILL the people who were engaging in it never stopped; never even slowed down, LoL. Remlnds me of what James said about no man can tame the tongue, cuz try as we might we couldn't get that mess to stop.


It's why I'm glad I don't pastor, because often times they don't.


I was just mentioning in another thread that when I first got born again I prayed Solomon's prayer from a pure desire just to want to minister to God's people. I didn't care for money or for building a "ministry" or a title. I just wanted to teach them accurately.

Maybe that goes to your questions, I don't know.
"we couldn't get that mess to stop." Who said you're supposed to:

"He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still." (Rev 22)

So long as we are not participants thereof we are clean. And if we preach rightly what is true vs what is evil according to Scripture, we are honored by Jesus before men and before His judgment seat.

It is not our church. We do not answer for others, and no other will answer for us. We each stand alone before God. In the end, that is all that will matter. Everything here on earth will pass away, and if we be found wanting, then nothing good we have done here will matter, and if we are found faithful, then nothing we have sinned here will condemn us. (Ezek 3:20-21)

Therefore, let us not fall into the snare of desiring to do for others so much that we do it to them to prove our own abilities, rather than for them to help their joy. The Lord Jesus comes to us gentle and kind, but the devil comes at us roaring accusations with demands.
 

Hidden In Him

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"we couldn't get that mess to stop." Who said you're supposed to:

"He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still." (Rev 22)

Ah, you can't just take a "come what may" approach when you are in leadership. Scripture is given to correct and reprove when necessary, and if they will not listen to the church, then stronger measures have to be taken.
It is not our church. We do not answer for others, and no other will answer for us. We each stand alone before God. In the end, that is all that will matter.

Yeah here would be where we disagree. If the church has no leadership it is destined to fail. You have to take a stand against sin.

But on the rest of your points we have been in agreement.
 
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robert derrick

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I was just mentioning in another thread that when I first got born again I prayed Solomon's prayer from a pure desire just to want to minister to God's people. I didn't care for money or for building a "ministry" or a title. I just wanted to teach them accurately.

Maybe that goes to your questions, I don't know.
"I just wanted to teach them accurately."

Keep that in your heart, and God may have a place for you to stand for Him.

When we know our proper place in the ministry of Christ, then and only then can we enjoy the clear conscience and singleness of purpose that is required for helping His people.

"For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation in the world, and more abundantly to you-ward." (2 Cor 1)

"For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ." (2 Cor 2)

"But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God." (2 Cor 4)

"Pray for us: for we trust we have a good conscience, in all things willing to (minister) honestly." (Heb 13)

The clean conscience and absence of worry and guilt in the ministry is worth it. The only problem is that the right answer to true and pure ministry is a huge ego deflator for men.

The answer to the two questions are:

We are not the Owner, nor the Baker, nor the Deliverer of the pizza to men's hearts. We are the pizza box.

And the Father's business is not the 'people business' but the loving people business.

These are two questions I would ask of any who presume to the calling of the ministry of Christ, and until they get the answers right, on their own, I would say they are not fit for His ministering to His church.

Desire for success in the ministry of Christ is the single most corrosive, pernicious, and destructive seduction of the devil, who's sole purpose is to infiltrate himself into the body of Christ, by the ministry...

"For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before." (Matthew 24)
 
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Hidden In Him

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"I just wanted to teach them accurately."

Keep that in your heart, and God may have a place for you to stand for Him.

Well I hope so. :)
The clean conscience and absence of worry and guilt in the ministry is worth it. The only problem is that the right answer to true and pure ministry is a huge ego deflator for men.

I honestly don't have problems with it. People think I do, but I don't. Just a common man, trying to do his best for God.
We are not the Owner, nor the Baker, nor the Deliverer of the pizza to men's hearts. We are the pizza box.

I think I'd disagree and say we're actually the deliverers, but it's just an analogy so not worth arguing over.

God bless, and good talk to you : )
- H
 

robert derrick

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Ah, you can't just take a "come what may" approach when you are in leadership. Scripture is given to correct and reprove when necessary, and if they will not listen to the church, then stronger measures have to be taken.


Yeah here would be where we disagree. If the church has no leadership it is destined to fail. You have to take a stand against sin.

But on the rest of your points we have been in agreement.
I am not speaking of just letting things go as they may. I am speaking of our place in ministry to the saints vs discipline of the church.

We are to take note of the unruly. We are to ostracize them that profane the confession of faith. We are to keep order in our assembly.

That is simple and straightforward and necessary and Scripturally mandated. That has to do with the whole church together in one place.

My point is that we are not enforcers among the sheep. We are not responsible for the decisions of the hearers. We are not to try and get anyone to obey, what they have heard. We are not go getters of the ministry. What people do in their own lives, whether to obey the Lord or not, is entirely up to them. It is not the calling of ministers to go out of their way to try and get them to do it. That is proselytizing, encompassing land and sea...

That is the source of all anxiety, false pressure, and grievousness of heart that infects many good-willed, sincere, and honest ministers. They get out of their league and above their pay grade.

When we must confirm church discipline as a body together, we are commanded to call out anyone publicly, so as to protect the rest. But privately compelling individuals to do good in their own lives? Not.
 

robert derrick

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Not everything that sounds grand and great is actually good nor true.

"I want to be so holiness and right with God, that if I fall, I want to fall on the right side!!" (Typical holiness pentecostal preaching)

By definition of Scripture, 'falling' is on the wrong side of God. So how can we possibly fall on the right side of God??

We can't, but we can fall on the wrong side of God by transgression, and yet fall on the right side of man by keeping 'holiness standards', while transgressing God's Word.

It is the same error of self-righteousness and constructed religious holiness of the Pharisees:

"But rather give alms of such things as ye have; and, behold, all things are clean unto you."
(Luke 11)

I.e. Even if I commit adultery, I am still on the 'right side' of holiness, because I go out in public and appear before men with the approved holiness standard of dress and speech and...

"Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity." (Matthew 23)

Outward expression of pure religion of God is good (James 1), but externally mandated religious standards of man are deceivably damned:

"And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies..." (Rev 13)
 

Hidden In Him

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My point is that we are not enforcers among the sheep. We are not responsible for the decisions of the hearers. We are not to try and get anyone to obey, what they have heard. We are not go getters of the ministry. What people do in their own lives, whether to obey the Lord or not, is entirely up to them. It is not the calling of ministers to go out of their way to try and get them to do it.

Mmmm... we still disagree some here, Robert. Paul said in one place, "Shall I come to you with a rod, or in a spirit of peace?" There is a place in the body of Christ for those in positions of authority to bring the rod of correction sometimes, and firmly. This is not to help the one who needs correction so much as to warn them that the Spirit of the Lord will protect those they are harming, and they are coming dangerously close to potentially suffering judgment if they continue on the course they are taking.
That is the source of all anxiety, false pressure, and grievousness of heart that infects many good-willed, sincere, and honest ministers. They get out of their league and above their pay grade.

I suppose it may, but that doesn't mean it has to. I correct people on a fairly regular basis, but it doesn't give me any sense of anxiety or false pressure, or even grieve me, like you say. It's just is something I know is necessary sometimes.
 

theQuestioneer

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People who KNOW God have his spirit.
Those who don't DON'T.

Why is this viewed as an "accusation", when even the Pentecostals view it as fact?
 

robert derrick

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Mmmm... we still disagree some here, Robert. Paul said in one place, "Shall I come to you with a rod, or in a spirit of peace?" There is a place in the body of Christ for those in positions of authority to bring the rod of correction sometimes, and firmly. This is not to help the one who needs correction so much as to warn them that the Spirit of the Lord will protect those they are harming, and they are coming dangerously close to potentially suffering judgment if they continue on the course they are taking.


I suppose it may, but that doesn't mean it has to. I correct people on a fairly regular basis, but it doesn't give me any sense of anxiety or false pressure, or even grieve me, like you say. It's just is something I know is necessary sometimes.
Ok, we are talking about 2 different things. You are speaking of the periodic scriptural necessity of ministering correction, whether to the whole assembly or individually. Whether compelled to bring a reprove to a brother, or admonishing an heretic, or general 'cleaning' of the assembly.

I am not addressing the need sometimes of bearing the sword in rebuke and admonition.

I am speaking of the error of then trying to enforce it in a person's life. To preach and minister the faith, whether in spirit of peace or with a rod, is the calling of the minister, but to then try and get people to do it is not.

You must fortunately have no experience where you have actually gone to people, and 'followed up' with them to try and persuade or get them to do what was ministered?

This is where I come from. A kind of ministry that becomes literally like a business-pursuit. The 'people business', a merchandizing effort for profit, where souls were really just a commodity to keep in the church building for the benefit of their offerings and tithes. I know it is heinous, but not absurdly unheard of. It is the very nature of Babylon (Rev 18:13)

Such business terms such as 'three strikes there out', or 'get them all the way in', or even 'pushing the church' for success, begin to be applied to the hearers and believers.

I understand my experience is not common; therefore, the lessons I have learned about how not to minister, are not so readily recognized.

And so I am not arguing against admonition and correction, which is sometimes scripturally necessary. I am arguing against pursuing after people to try and get them to do it, so that they will stay in the building. This type of 'hunter' mentality is neither scriptural nor the spiritual work of restoring a soul to faith. (Gal 6:1)

The anxiety and frustration and even anger that results is as a merchandizing businessman not seeing the success he wants, while working so hard for it. This is the kind that destroys relationships and even marriages. What such 'ministers' do is take too much of the work of God themselves upon themselves whether innocently or devilishly. We sow and water, but only God can give the increase and cause the ground to grow fruit.

I do know what it is like to be in an entire organizational ministry, where we try to get the ground to grow what we have sown and watered...
 
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Hidden In Him

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I am speaking of the error of then trying to enforce it in a person's life. To preach and minister the faith, whether in spirit of peace or with a rod, is the calling of the minister, but to then try and get people to do it is not.

You must fortunately have no experience where you have actually gone to people, and 'followed up' with them to try and persuade or get them to do what was ministered?


I think I know what you are still driving at. And no, I would never attempt to coerce. In fact, the one time when I have personally even seen something resembling Christian coercion was at a Hispanic church where the worship leader would literally stop and tell the congregation they needed to worship God more. I thought, "True worship of God cannot be manufactured," so it didn't sit well with me.

This is where I come from. A kind of ministry that becomes literally like a business-pursuit. The 'people business', a merchandizing effort for profit, where souls were really just a commodity to keep in the church building for the benefit of their offerings and tithes. I know it is heinous, but not absurdly unheard of. It is the very nature of Babylon (Rev 18:13)

Out of curiosity Robert Derrick, what denominational background was this that you came from? Or if not a denomination, what sort of church environment?
And so I am not arguing against admonition and correction, which is sometimes scripturally necessary. I am arguing against pursuing after people to try and get them to do it, so that they will stay in the building. This type of 'hunter' mentality is neither scriptural nor the spiritual work of restoring a soul to faith. (Gal 6:1)

I agree.
The anxiety and frustration and even anger that results is as a merchandizing businessman not seeing the success he wants, while working so hard for it. This is the kind that destroys relationships and even marriages. What such 'ministers' do is take too much of the work of God themselves upon themselves whether innocently or devilishly. We sow and water, but only God can give the increase and cause the ground to grow fruit.

Sounds almost like a Megachurch environment.
 

marks

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Ah, you can't just take a "come what may" approach when you are in leadership. Scripture is given to correct and reprove when necessary, and if they will not listen to the church, then stronger measures have to be taken.


Yeah here would be where we disagree. If the church has no leadership it is destined to fail. You have to take a stand against sin.

But on the rest of your points we have been in agreement.

@robert derrick

Hebrews 13:17 KJV
17) Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

Much love!
 

marks

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My point is that we are not enforcers among the sheep. We are not responsible for the decisions of the hearers. We are not to try and get anyone to obey, what they have heard. We are not go getters of the ministry. What people do in their own lives, whether to obey the Lord or not, is entirely up to them. It is not the calling of ministers to go out of their way to try and get them to do it. That is proselytizing, encompassing land and sea...

That is the source of all anxiety, false pressure, and grievousness of heart that infects many good-willed, sincere, and honest ministers. They get out of their league and above their pay grade.

When we must confirm church discipline as a body together, we are commanded to call out anyone publicly, so as to protect the rest. But privately compelling individuals to do good in their own lives? Not.

All we can do is lead them to the Source. My interest in you is that you will fully trust Him, and that hopefully I might contribute something to you that will show you Him in greater detail, and in seeing Him more, will trust Him more.

Jesus is unto us sanctification. Let us now live holy, trusting His Word.

Much love!
 

robert derrick

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I think I know what you are still driving at. And no, I would never attempt to coerce. In fact, the one time when I have personally even seen something resembling Christian coercion was at a Hispanic church where the worship leader would literally stop and tell the congregation they needed to worship God more. I thought, "True worship of God cannot be manufactured," so it didn't sit well with me.



Out of curiosity Robert Derrick, what denominational background was this that you came from? Or if not a denomination, what sort of church environment?


I agree.


Sounds almost like a Megachurch environment.
No, a newly created Organization of Churches breaking from the Pentecostal Churches that they had decreed to have 'compromised' the holiness standard. It was formed around one man, who was the 'Pastor' of all the churches. They have a particular 'outreach' to the military, called 'Servicemen's Homes', which began in oversea bases, where the preacher would open his own home, on or off base, to young G.I.s looking for a Christian environment rather than the barracks.

The perversion came when these 'Home away from Home' environments were turned into a business for profit, much like used car lots springing up outside of military bases. Filthy lucre, lord's over God's heritage, merchandizers of the sheep.

It is called New Testament Christian Churches NTCC. Under the Founding Pastor, who is now dead, they became the only true and rightly holiness church left in the world: the last true Organization of the churches of God, since the time of the apostles, with 'Pastor' as the modern James. Young G.I.s (myself included) separated from home and hearing the Gospel for the first time, became easy 'pickings' for recruitment into the Organizational Bible College, which was little more than a Business Seminar for 'building churches'.

Mind you none of this sprang up overnight, nor was even planned. And the real wooden hook of bad fishing was in fact the true preaching of Jesus Christ and Him crucified, the Gospel of the cross with the Holy Ghost baptism and Spirit sent down from heaven. I was a licensed minister close to the 'Pastor' for 13 years, until I saw that the Organization had become an inherited business of his personal family, just like any other in the real business world. His born or married relatives would in due time ascend to the top, after doing a 'floor time' in the field of building a church.

Looking at it in this light from the outside would be simple, but from the inside, not so simple. Especially since most all the churches around us were indeed sloppy in righteousness and 'compromisers' to the core, as you point out.

When I did personally break with 'Pastor', the very next day the vail of Pastor was taken away from my eyes (2 Cor 3:14), and I immediately began to see the Scriptures plainly as written, and saw how that most all we were doing in the 'church building business' was against God and His sheep, rather than for Him.

In that day, though I thought myself a castaway awaiting God's wrath, I did what I was normally want to do: pray and read the Bible. I randomly opened the Book to Ezekiel 34, and began to read, and I came to vs 34: "Because ye have thrust with side and with shoulder, and pushed all the diseased with your horns, till ye have scattered them abroad."

And I thought, my God, that is pushing the church! Pushing the church is wrong! And for the next 5 years alone, in solitude not in isolation, I daresay even as Saul of Tarsus in Arabia (Gal 1), the Lord would open my eyes by Scripture daily showing me where we had all been so wrong, and that 'Pastor' was not only not the next James of God's Organization of Churches, but rather there is no such thing as an Organization of God, and anyone claiming to be the 'Pastor' thereof, is usurping the headship of Jesus Christ over His believers: Cult group. Antichrist ruler and dominator over the believers:

"And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer." (Rev 6)

I know what an antichrist is distinctly by Scripture, and I knew one that I once loved as God Himself.

And I also know the little beginnings, the little foxes, the small root going down the road of false ministry (Heb 12:15). It mostly begins with someone sincerely desiring to do good for the Lord in reaching out to a lost and dying world, but they are not called by God, but rather by the will of man. They yet still have in their hearts to fulfill the first commandment of God to all mankind: Be fruitful and multiply: I.e. they have yet to properly succeed in the world and prospered as believers of God obedient to His commandments (Josh 1)(3 John 2), and so they just cannot help themselves from trying to fulfill that God-given urge to succeed, but in the wrong place and at the wrong time: In the ministry of Christ.

The ministry of God is the loving people business , but becomes the 'people business' in the hands of them prematurely seeking full time ministry, and so they begin to pursue and hunt down souls to help build their business for profit sake, rather than simply to help souls to build up their own lives for Jesus' sake.

"He was a mighty hunter before the LORD: wherefore it is said, Even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before the LORD." (Gen 10)

Rather than being ambassadors of Christ beseeching others to be reconciled to God in Christ's stead, they become ambassadors of their church, begging others to be reconciled to themselves instead of Christ. (2 Cor 5:20)

No man does this on purpose from the beginning. No man wakes up one morning and decides to use the ministry of Christ for their own purposes. It only happens because true and sincere believers get it in their hearts to launch off into an endeavor that God has not yet called them to. They become more of a problem than a help to believers.

The mystery of iniquity and the mystery of Babylon, is that the ministers thereof begin in sincerity for souls, but end in merchandizing of them instead. The mystery is that even the antichrists going out from the apostles' fellowship and doctrine (1 John 2: 19) don't even know it in the beginning...

antichrists and beasts of ministry do not start out that way. Even as Lucifer did not start out as the devil.

'Pastor' was a good man and Christian. A faithful and sincere minister of the gospel, but when he say an opportunity to achieve success as a businessman in the ministry, he took it and rose up in the clouds of success like God Himself (Isaiah 14), and proceeded to fall away backward into the depths of a personally organized cult built around himself. Like King Saul, he began innocent and good and willing, but when the occasion of personal power arose, he took it, to his own destruction.
 

robert derrick

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@robert derrick

Hebrews 13:17 KJV
17) Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

Much love!
Just make sure they watch for your souls for the good, and not for the evil. Because we will all give an account to God.

And so obey them that have the rule of Jesus over us, and submit ourselves to Jesus by them.

I.e. if it ain't Scripture clearly writ, then it ain't Jesus only, but mixed with that of men...(Matthew 17)(Titus 1)

"Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men." (Acts 5)

The understanding we have in Jesus Christ (1 John 5), is that so long as their rule is indeed God's rule, then we obey and follow them, even as they follow Christ. But, if it is not in fact Scripture they are attempting to rule by, then only a fool would blindly follow them into the pit they dig for themselves.

"Ye fools and blind: Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch." (Matthew 15)

ALWAYS be careful of quoting Scripture in a blanket manner without including proper context. Otherwise, we would all still be blindly obeying a pope.
 

Hidden In Him

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It is called New Testament Christian Churches NTCC. Under the Founding Pastor, who is now dead, they became the only true and rightly holiness church left in the world: the last true Organization of the churches of God, since the time of the apostles

Ouch.
And I thought, my God, that is pushing the church! Pushing the church is wrong! And for the next 5 years alone, in solitude not in isolation, I daresay even as Saul of Tarsus in Arabia (Gal 1), the Lord would open my eyes by Scripture daily showing me where we had all been so wrong, and that 'Pastor' was not only not the next James of God's Organization of Churches, but rather there is no such thing as an Organization of God, and anyone claiming to be the 'Pastor' thereof, is usurping the headship of Jesus Christ over His believers: Cult group

Yes, this much I would agree with. Fits the description of a Cult.

So where are you now in your faith? Do you have any ministry or denomination that you identify with now, or do you consider yourself non-denominational at this point?
 

robert derrick

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All we can do is lead them to the Source. My interest in you is that you will fully trust Him, and that hopefully I might contribute something to you that will show you Him in greater detail, and in seeing Him more, will trust Him more.

Jesus is unto us sanctification. Let us now live holy, trusting His Word.

Much love!
Amen to that brother.

"And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid. And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only." (Matthew 17)
 

robert derrick

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Ouch.


Yes, this much I would agree with. Fits the description of a Cult.

So where are you now in your faith? Do you have any ministry or denomination that you identify with now, or do you consider yourself non-denominational at this point?
I go to a local ministry that could be described as 'holiness' without the garbage. The 'pastor' there is sincere and honest without regard to profit nor demand from the believers. I have not (yet) gone forward to be more actively engaged, other than as a faithful attendee with gifts and offerings.

My only 'pastor' is the Lord Jesus. If one preaches Scripture I obey Scripture, if not, I let it pass. I have learned to receive only that which is true. Without undo boasting, I can firmly say that no man shall ever deceive me again in ministry, and hopefully I will not deceive myself. I suppose I am learning the fine line between passion for Scripture and zeal for winning disputes :).

I believe I will be called to teach, and particularly that of the law (1 Tim 1), but I have no urgency about it. In fact, I love this forum as a place to share and be challenged and perhaps corrected. Maybe a proving ground. I spent many years in an online forum purposed towards exposing cult groups, but I have moved on from that.

My new wife become converted to Jesus after our marriage. (I lost my first to that group, when I departed). She goes with me to church when she can (She is founder and boss of our business:D), and we read the Bible together on Sundays with our little pooh-poohs gathered around and for a time not barking up a storm...
 
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marks

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ALWAYS be careful of quoting Scripture in a blanket manner without including proper context. Otherwise, we would all still be blindly obeying a pope.

I'm quoting from LITV on this one to bring out something,

1 Peter 5:2-4 LITV
2) Shepherd the flock of God among you, exercising oversight, not by compulsion, but willingly; nor eagerly for base gain, but readily;
3) nor as exercising lordship over the ones allotted to you, but becoming examples of the flock.
4) And at the appearing of the Chief Shepherd, you will receive the never fading crown of glory.

The ones allotted to you . . . the idea here that God has apportioned us each to our shepherds. Do you have that experience in your life of knowing who your shepherd - we normally say pastor of course - who this is in your life?

I'm actually waiting for my next pastor, my pastor died last year, and my wife and I remain wary of covid, so we have not been to church. We have our home church, but it's not all the same.

But I just wanted to bring out here the idea that God allots us to His various shepherds, and they are responsible for us, and must give account for their shepherding of us.

My pastor must be receiving great reward! He literally led us into greater love by his love for us. He was the most loving man I've ever known, and showed me what that was.

Much love!
 
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robert derrick

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I'm quoting from LITV on this one to bring out something,

1 Peter 5:2-4 LITV
2) Shepherd the flock of God among you, exercising oversight, not by compulsion, but willingly; nor eagerly for base gain, but readily;
3) nor as exercising lordship over the ones allotted to you, but becoming examples of the flock.
4) And at the appearing of the Chief Shepherd, you will receive the never fading crown of glory.

The ones allotted to you . . . the idea here that God has apportioned us each to our shepherds. Do you have that experience in your life of knowing who your shepherd - we normally say pastor of course - who this is in your life?

I'm actually waiting for my next pastor, my pastor died last year, and my wife and I remain wary of covid, so we have not been to church. We have our home church, but it's not all the same.

But I just wanted to bring out here the idea that God allots us to His various shepherds, and they are responsible for us, and must give account for their shepherding of us.

My pastor must be receiving great reward! He literally led us into greater love by his love for us. He was the most loving man I've ever known, and showed me what that was.

Much love!

My point remains the same. If you believe God has 'allotted' you to a particular minister and ministry, then fine. Just be Berean about it, and make sure everything that is preached is written and so...(Acts 17)

That does not mean to walk around in perpetual suspicion and lack of trust and love and fellowship. But it does mean, l if ever there is something that sounds 'off' to you, or is downright questionable, then go to the Scriptures for yourself to test it.

"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world." (I John 4)
 
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