Jesus Is Our Truth, Reward, And Faithfulness So We Can Lie, Steal, and Fornicate?

(Post edited for readability by the comprehension impaired JW among us)

Nope, I don't disagree at all.
Jesus Is Our Truth, Reward, And Faithfulness So We Can Lie, Steal, and Fornicate!

Any and every claim to righteousness that I have comes from Jesus and not from any innate goodness in me. If I lie, God still loves and accepts me because of His Son (Jesus). If I steal, God still loves and accepts me because of His Son (Jesus). If I commit adultery (I am married, so it is not simple fornication), God still loves and accepts me because of His Son (Jesus).

Since God loves me with such a great love that even lying, stealing and fornication cannot separate me from Jesus Christ and the love of God ... why on Earth would I want to repay that LOVE with such ingratitude by breaking His heart with sin? It is bad enough when I stumble and have to go before Him with tear stained eyes to beg His forgiveness ... because He is the only one that can wipe away the tears and the sins.

Who deliberately smashes their thumb with a hammer? Sure, we can, but only a fool would. So anyone CAN but nobody DOES.

Phoneman777 said:

No, the modern day Pharisees are no different than those of today:

They claim the promises of God but reject the condition by which they are to be obtained: REPENTANCE.

Both the Pharisees of old and of today will burn in the Lake of Fire.

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[Luke 18:11-12 NKJV] "The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, 'God, I thank You that I am not like other men--extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector [or Protestant]. 'I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.'[and I keep your Sabbath commandment flawlessly]”

Phoneman777 said:

(OSAS, Sunday sacredness, Antinomianism, etc.).

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I teach none of those.

• No OSAS.
  
• No Sunday sacredness.
  
• No antinomianism.

I teach what Jesus and John and Paul taught … the GRACE of God that is found in Christ, which sets us free from the Law that brings only knowledge of sin and death. (Romans 7-8)

Phoneman777 said:

Yes, those in heaven will look upon those down breaking the law/teaching others to do as they are, and in heaven will say to each other, "wow, they are the least".
Disobedience is not the disease, it's the symptom. Deciding to turn from God after we've repented is the disease, and lawbreaking is merely the fruit of that decision.

"Blesses are they which DO HIS COMMANDMENTS" because they go to heaven, according to John...because the "doing" is evidence of repentance, while "not doing" exposes countless "Christians" as hypocrites who know not Jesus and will go to hell. See? Works are the evidence of faith, and likewise, the absence of works are the evidence of hypocrisy.

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Except His commandments stopped being the Decalogue, replaced by the two love commands.

2 Corinthians 3 is crystal clear that the ten commands received by Moses were the ministry of death, the letter that kills, the ministry of condemnation, which has passed away, replaced by the law of the Spirit, which brings LIFE.

You can thus quote out of context and claim the ten commands are what is referenced in the NT, but that is absolutely incorrect.

The required penalty in the law for sabbath breakers is to be stoned to death.

If the Decalogue was still in effect, the death penalty for adultery, sabbath breaking, and not honoring your parents, would absolutely be in effect also.

Also required under the law is a burnt offering from animal sacrifice as part of every sabbath, and it bans fire in your house on the sabbath, meaning no hot water heater and no furnace when it’s 10 below zero in winter.

Phoneman777 said:

The Mosaic Law was written by the hand of Moses, written on scrolls, placed outside the Ark, and was against them by virtue of the penalties and curses contained therein (Deuteronomy 31:24-26 KJV).......but in contrast, the Ten Commandment Law of God was written with His finger (Exodus 31:18 KJV), on both sides of stone tablets (Exodus 32:15 KJV), placed inside the Ark (Exodus 25:16 KJV), and contained blessings, not curses (Exodus 20:11 KJV; Exodus 20:12 KJV).

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Everything in the book of the law was given to Moses, by God - Moses invented none of it, and God commanded all of it be kept under severe penalty for breaking any of it.


There’s NO DISTINCTION within the law of Moses: it ALL has to be kept when it’s in effect, in order for them to have righteousness:


Ye shall diligently keep the commandments of the LORD your God, and his testimonies, and his statutes, which he hath commanded thee.


Deu 6:18 And thou shalt do that which is right and good in the sight of the LORD: that it may be well with thee, and that thou mayest go in and possess the good land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers,


Deu 6:19 To cast out all thine enemies from before thee, as the LORD hath spoken.


Deu 6:20 And when thy son asketh thee in time to come, saying, What mean the testimonies, and the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD our God hath commanded you?


Deu 6:21 Then thou shalt say unto thy son, We were Pharaoh's bondmen in Egypt; and the LORD brought us out of Egypt with a mighty hand:


Deu 6:22 And the LORD shewed signs and wonders, great and sore, upon Egypt, upon Pharaoh, and upon all his household, before our eyes:


Deu 6:23 And he brought us out from thence, that he might bring us in, to give us the land which he sware unto our fathers.


Deu 6:24 And the LORD commanded us to do ALL these statutes, to fear the LORD our God, for our good always, that he might preserve us alive, as it is at this day.


Deu 6:25 And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do ALL these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.


And notice that every law, statute and command was from God, not from Moses inventing any of it.


In fact as more proof that all the law put in the book of the law was given by God, and not from Moses making any of it up, God warns of very very severe consequences for Israel if they DON’T keep everything in it:


Deu 28:58 “If you are not careful to do all the words of this law that are written in this book, that you may fear this glorious and awesome name, the LORD your God,


Deu 28:59 then the LORD will bring on you and your offspring extraordinary afflictions, afflictions severe and lasting, and sicknesses grievous and lasting.


Deu 28:60 And he will bring upon you again all the diseases of Egypt, of which you were afraid, and they shall cling to you.


Deu 28:61 Every sickness also and every affliction that is not recorded in the book of this law, the LORD will bring upon you, until you are destroyed

Phoneman777 said:

The Bible declares both explicit and implicit truths, so there's nothing wrong with properly identifying either when they are Biblically established.

For instance, "thou shalt not kill" is explicit. "Thou shalt not kill quickly with a bullet or slowly with poison" is implicit.

You should know that the Bible uses the same word "pele'" to refer to Jesus as "wonderful" in Isaiah 9:6 KJV and "secret" when referring to the "Angel of the Lord" in the book of Judges when the Angel appears to Manoah.

That "Angel" was JESUS manifesting Himself as the "Angel of the Lord" where He took the name "Michael", just as when He later manifested Himself as a man and took the name "Jesus".

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Daniel 10:13, 21; Daniel 12:1; Jude 1:9; Revelation 12:7,

Hello @Phoneman777,

Making this claim that the Lord Jesus Christ is also the Archangel Michael is a presumption, and not Truth.

In Christ Jesus
our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris

'But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days:
but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me;
and I remained there with the kings of Persia.'
(Dan 10:13)

'But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth:
and there is none that holdeth with me in these things,
but Michael your prince.'
(Dan 10:21)

'And at that time shall Michael stand up,
the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people:
and there shall be a time of trouble,
such as never was since there was a nation
even to that same time:
and at that time thy people shall be delivered,
every one that shall be found written in the book.'
(Dan 12:1)

Hello @Phoneman,

The title 'Prince' indicates one who rules, and in this case it is an Angelic rule. These Angels we are told, can be either 'good' or 'evil', and can 'stand', 'withstand', 'confront' or 'make war' (Revelation 12:7):- 'And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels'.

* Rulers within the realm of the spirit are referred to in Ephesians 6:12:-

'For we wrestle not against flesh and blood,
but against principalities, against powers,
against the rulers of the darkness of this world,
against spiritual wickedness in high places.'
(Ephesians 6:12)

* In Jude 1:9, Michael the Archangel contends with the Devil, but would not accuse him directly, but said, 'The Lord rebuke thee'. He submitted himself to the Lord's authority.

'Yet Michael the archangel,
when contending with the devil
he disputed about the body of Moses,
durst not bring against him a railing accusation,
but said, The Lord rebuke thee.'
(Jude 1:9)

* When the Lord Jesus Christ was being tested by the Devil in (Matthew 4:1-11), He quotes the written word of God in response to the Devil on three occasions: with Authority saying, 'Get thee hence,Satan'; and the Devil left Him.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Phoneman777 said:

Yes, not everywhere was the same problem, but was the most prevalent problem, for it seems Paul was constantly preoccupied with telling people the grace of Jesus was sufficient. But, when Paul encountered the Licentious, he would remind them, "He that doeth righteousness IS righteous."

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Yes Paul was a master spiritual physician. He knew how to apply the right spiritual medication for the right spiritual disease!

Ronald Nolette said:

Yes Paul was a master spiritual physician. He knew how to apply the right spiritual medication for the right spiritual disease!

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Hello @Ronald Nolette,

Though I understand your use of the figure of a physician: Paul himself was no physician, either physical or spiritual, but He was the Apostle of the risen Christ, and as such spoke with the Authority of God the Father and of Christ, by Whom He was chosen and equipped for the service he performed, he was only Their mouthpiece, doing Their will, by God's grace. He of all men knew that in his flesh there was no good thing: not where the things of God were concerned.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Phoneman777 said:

You can read the Bible from Gen to Rev and you will not find a single text establishing Sunday as God's Covenant day. However, the Bible says the "Lord's day" is the seventh day Sabbath, both in Isaiah 58:13 KJV and Mark 2:27-28 KJV.

The Ten Commandments are the Law written on the heart of New Covenant Christians, including the seventh day Sabbath. Why do so many "Christians" break it and have no intention of repenting?

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matt 16:18 18:18

The church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles has authority from Christ


What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15


Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments


Must be taught by the holy church by the apostles! Matt 28:19-20 Lk 1:4 Acts 2:42

Phoneman777 said:

Millions are waking up to the lie of OSAS, antinomianist ecumenical bulldookey. They are tired of Christians acting like the world, claiming their OSAS Licence to Sin grants them immunity from the hammer of divine justice that will crush "unlicensed" sinners who do the exact same thing.

They are tired of hearing weak, fleshly, cowardly, whiny hypocrites in church complain that "we can't keep the law" when Paul has plainly said that until he sees you all mixing BLOOD with your SWEAT fighting temptation, keep your pathetic mouths shut (Hebrews 12:1-4 KJV)

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'For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty;
only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh,
but by love serve one another.'
(Gal 5:13 )

Hello @Phoneman777,

The words you used are not that of Paul, he would not have spoken in such a fashion. He would have confirmed that they were not under the law but under grace, but that they were not to use their liberty as a license to sin, but were to serve one another.

The believer in the Lord Jesus Christ is saved unto good works, and not by them: he is saved to walk in newness of life before the Father in Christ Jesus; he is not saved to be placed under the bondage of the law.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

charity said:

'For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty;
only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh,
but by love serve one another.'
(Gal 5:13 )

Hello @Phoneman777,

The words you used are not that of Paul, he would not have spoken in such a fashion. He would have confirmed that they were not under the law but under grace, but that they were not to use their liberty as a license to sin, but were to serve one another.

The believer in the Lord Jesus Christ is saved unto good works, and not by them: he is saved to walk in newness of life before the Father in Christ Jesus; he is not saved to be placed under the bondage of the law.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

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I believe osas but only at the hour of death matt 24:13 then once saved can’t be lost

A good tree!

Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

The fruit of the tree of Mary is our salvation! Lk 2:30 Jesus is our salvation!
Lk 1:30 Mary found our salvation!

Mother of Divine Grace!

Hebrews 4:16
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

The throne of Grace is the throne of Mary the ever Virgin mother of God!

We come boldly to this throne cause Mary is our mother and advocate!

Mary is the storehouse of divine graces!

Lk 1:28
And the angel entered to her, and said, Hail Mary, full of grace; the Lord is with thee; blessed be thou among women.


Salvation is to be found with Mary!
Jesus Christ is our salvation! Lk 2:30
He is Lord, and He is with Mary! Lk 1:28
Mary found our salvation! Lk 1:30
Consented to our salvation! Lk 1:38

theefaith said:

I believe osas but only at the hour of death matt 24:13 then once saved can’t be lost

A good tree!

Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

The fruit of the tree of Mary is our salvation! Lk 2:30 Jesus is our salvation!
Lk 1:30 Mary found our salvation!

Mother of Divine Grace!

Hebrews 4:16
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

The throne of Grace is the throne of Mary the ever Virgin mother of God!

We come boldly to this throne cause Mary is our mother and advocate!

Mary is the storehouse of divine graces!

Lk 1:28
And the angel entered to her, and said, Hail Mary, full of grace; the Lord is with thee; blessed be thou among women.


Salvation is to be found with Mary!
Jesus Christ is our salvation! Lk 2:30
He is Lord, and He is with Mary! Lk 1:28
Mary found our salvation! Lk 1:30
Consented to our salvation! Lk 1:38

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So John lied when he said we HAVE eternal life
Jesus lied when he said once we believe we are given eternal life
Jesus lied when he said whoever believes will never die, Live forever Has eternal life and will be raised on the last day.

Why did so many people lie to us in Gods word?

theefaith said:

theefaith said:

I believe osas but only at the hour of death matt 24:13 then once saved can’t be lost

A good tree!

Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

The fruit of the tree of Mary is our salvation! Lk 2:30 Jesus is our salvation!
Lk 1:30 Mary found our salvation!

Mother of Divine Grace!

Hebrews 4:16
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

The throne of Grace is the throne of Mary the ever Virgin mother of God!

We come boldly to this throne cause Mary is our mother and advocate!

Mary is the storehouse of divine graces!

Lk 1:28
And the angel entered to her, and said, Hail Mary, full of grace; the Lord is with thee; blessed be thou among women.


Salvation is to be found with Mary!
Jesus Christ is our salvation! Lk 2:30
He is Lord, and He is with Mary! Lk 1:28
Mary found our salvation! Lk 1:30
Consented to our salvation! Lk 1:38

Click to expand...

I believe osas but only at the hour of death matt 24:13 then once saved can’t be lost

A good tree!

Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

The fruit of the tree of Mary is our salvation! Lk 2:30 Jesus is our salvation!
Lk 1:30 Mary found our salvation!

Mother of Divine Grace!

Hebrews 4:16
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

The throne of Grace is the throne of Mary the ever Virgin mother of God!

We come boldly to this throne cause Mary is our mother and advocate!

Mary is the storehouse of divine graces!

Lk 1:28
And the angel entered to her, and said, Hail Mary, full of grace; the Lord is with thee; blessed be thou among women.

Salvation is to be found with Mary!
Jesus Christ is our salvation! Lk 2:30
He is Lord, and He is with Mary! Lk 1:28
Mary found our salvation! Lk 1:30
Consented to our salvation! Lk 1:38

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'Be it known unto you all,
.. and to all the people of Israel,
.... that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth,
...... whom ye crucified,
........ whom God raised from the dead,
.......... even by Him doth this man stand here before you whole.
This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders,
.. which is become the head of the corner.
Neither is there salvation in any other:
for there is none other name under heaven
given among men,
whereby we must be saved.'
(Act 4:10-12)

Hello @theefaith,

I don't think we have had occasion to communicate with one another before, have we?

Mary was indeed highly favoured by God, when chosen to give birth to His only Begotten Son: but we too, who have placed our trust in the efficacy of His atoning blood, are equally 'highly favoured' in being 'accepted in the Beloved'; in Mary's son in the flesh, now risen and glorified, and seated at God's right Hand; but Mary, as all others who have died 'in Christ', is now 'asleep in Christ' in the sight of God, awaiting the resurrection of the dead.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Eternally Grateful said:

So John lied when he said we HAVE eternal life
Jesus lied when he said once we believe we are given eternal life
Jesus lied when he said whoever believes will never die, Live forever Has eternal life and will be raised on the last day.

Why did so many people lie to us in Gods word?

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mod course not, eternal life is the grace of God that we begin to live by now after baptism Jn 1:16 Jn 10:10

Jesus also requires faithfulness Jn 15:1

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Matthew 16:25
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

John 12:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

25
He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

Romans 5:3
And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

Romans 5:4
And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

2 Thessalonians 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

2 Tim 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

James 1:2-8
My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing

Hebrews 6:12
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Hebrews 12:4
Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

1 Peter 2:20
For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Matthew 24:42
Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

theefaith said:

mod course not, eternal life is the grace of God that we begin to live by now after baptism Jn 1:16 Jn 10:10

Jesus also requires faithfulness Jn 15:1

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Matthew 16:25
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

John 12:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

25
He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

Romans 5:3
And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

Romans 5:4
And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

2 Thessalonians 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

2 Tim 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

James 1:2-8
My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing

Hebrews 6:12
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Hebrews 12:4
Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

1 Peter 2:20
For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Matthew 24:42
Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

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Then it is not eternal life, It is conditional life.

It is life which is based on us meeting some conditions (like baptism), and thus it is not a gift. it is a reward for doing all the hard work required. And it most certainly is not eternal.

It is salvation by works. Not salvation by Grace.

The law could not save anyone. Yet people say the new law of the church has to be obeyed to save us today.

If people could just humble themselves and see how this looks and how this sounds and how it makes God out to be a liar. The heavenly hosts would rejoice.