Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?

Kermos · Jul 5, 2021

Taken said:
Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?
OP

YES.

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

You keep answering the question based on you thoughts not scripture.

This post demonstrates times you add to scripture with your thoughts.

Taken said:
Adam was created and made
(Gen 2:7)
outside of a Garden, according to Gods Word and WILL, not Adams word or WILL.

Nothing whatsoever indicates Adam saw, heard, smelled, touched, tasted anything outside of the garden to reveal Adams Freewill regarding Anything "out side of a garden".

Immediately AFTER Adam was created and made (Gen 2:8)
Gods Word and WILL is revealed...
God Planted a Garden.
God PUT Adam IN the Garden.

In the Garden, God brought creatures and animals to Adam, for Adam to exercise his own FREEWILL, to NAME the creatures and animals.

Adam exercised his own FREEWILL, and Named, creatures, animals, cattle, woman, Eve.

Here you add freewill to this scripture which does not contain freewill "Out of the ground the LORDGod formed every beast of the field and every bird of the sky, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name. The man gave names to all the cattle, and to the birds of the sky, and to every beast of the field" (Genesis 2:19-20).

Taken said:
In the Garden, God notified Adam of what he could FREELY eat, and one tree Adam SHOULD NOT eat, (less Adam be subject to a consequence of death).

In the Garden God Planted, BY Gods WILL, and God caused every tree pleasant for food to grow. Of every tree...Adam exercised his own Freewill to choose which trees he would and would not eat from.

Gen 2:9
Gen 2:16

In reality, the word "freely" does not appear in the Hebrew of the Genesis 2:16-17 passage. The Hebrew source word for "freely" is truly "to eat" in English for Genesis 2:16.

Also, the word "may" does not appear in the Hebrew of the passage. The Hebrew source word for "may" is truly "you will be eating" in English for Genesis 2:16.

The word "surely" can surely lead to misinterpretation of the passage since the Hebrew source word for "surely" is truly "to die" in English for Genesis 2:17.

First, we need to look at the passage, so here is Genesis 2:16 from three different angles: New American Standard Bible, Hebrew Bible, and Interlinear.

The Lord God commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may freely eat;" (Genesis 2:16, NASB)
ויצו יהוה אלהים על האדם לאמר מכל עץ הגן אכל תאכל
(Genesis 2:16, Hebrew Bible, historians say accent marks for vowels did not appear in early Hebrew script)

and-commanded YHVH God unto the-man saying of-every tree of-the-garden to-eat you-eating (Genesis 2:16, Interlinear word(s) for word(s) translation of English from Hebrew)

Now, here is Genesis 2:17 from three different angles of NASB, Hebrew Bible, and Interlinear."but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die." (Genesis 2:17, NASB)
ומעץ הדעת טוב ורע לא תאכל ממנו כי ביום אכלך ממנו מות תמות
(Genesis 2:17, Hebrew Bible, historians say accent marks for vowels did not appear in early Hebrew script)

but-of-the-tree of-the-knowledge of-good and-evil not you-eating from when in-the-day you-to-eat of-it to-die you-dying (Genesis 2:17, Interlinear word(s) for word(s) translation of English from Hebrew)

Second, we need to look at the lexical construction.
The final two words of both verses follow similar patterns. The final two words are verbs. The final two words have the same root word. The first word is the Qal (Strong's 7031 - light, swift, fleet) infinitive absolute verb form (to be). The second word is the qal (Strong's 7031 - light, swift, fleet) imperfect second person masculine singular verb form (incomplete action thus present tense applies and past tense can be included and future tense can apply).

In Hebrew grammar, the qal is the simple paradigm and simplest stem formation of the verb.

The word roots are easily distinguishable when carefully examined.

Here are the final two Hebrew words of Genesis 2:16, אכל תאכל, notice the consistent word root. Both of these words are Strong's 398 - eat.

Here are the final two Hebrew words of Genesis 2:17, מות תמות, notice the consistent word root. Both of these words are Strong's 4191 - die.

The sixth word of Genesis 2:17 is תאכל which is precisely the same word that appears as the second of the two last words at the end of the Genesis 2:16, so we have a point of reference for this word.

Notice that the Hebrew word אכל (Strong's 398 - eat) in Genesis 2:16 is not the Hebrew word חפשי (Strong's 2670 - free).

Third, it is prudent to mention that the Masoretes added the vowel accents into the Hebrew written manuscripts. The Masoretes were a sect of Jews that lived after Jesus ascended to heaven. We have earlier copies of Hebrew manuscripts that contain consonants only, so the Hebrew consonant only script is what I use here in this essay. I use the consonant only script because it more closely represents the original Hebrew writing.

Fourth, it's time to apply proper translation.

In Genesis 2:16, the final two words "אכל תאכל" (to-eat you-eating) are of significant relevance to this topic since both of these words are of the root "eat".

The first of the two words "אכל" (Strongs 398 - eat) is the infinitive verb form thus it translates to English as "to-eat"; however, some English translations use the word "freely", yet "freely" is an inappropriate translation of "eat" because the word is not the Hebrew word for "free" while it is the Hebrew word for "eat".

The second of the two words "תאכל" (Strongs 398 - eat) is the imperfect verb form thus it translates to English as "you-eating".

These two words essentially result in the first part of the command being "of every tree in the garden to eat you will be eating" thus liberty of action without punishment is expressed. Also, instead of the permissive of "may" as part of the "eat" verb, it is appropriate for "will" to be part of the "eat" verb; in other words, "may eat" is the wrong translation., and "will eat" is the correct translation.

In Genesis 2:17, the final two words "מות תמות" (to-die you-dying) are of significant relevance to this topic since both of these words are of the root "die".

The first of the two words "מות" (Strongs 4191 - die) is the infinitive verb form thus it translates to English as "to-die"; however, some English translations use the word "surely", yet "surely" is an inappropriate translation of "die".

The second of the two words "תמות" (Strongs 4191 - die) is the imperfect verb form thus it translates to English as "you-dying".

These two words essentially cause the end of the command to say "day you are to eat of it to die you will be dying" thus the punishment is expressed.

Continued to post 463

CharismaticLady · Jul 5, 2021

Kermos said:
Was Adam imparted free will from the beginning of Creation?

Of course, just like the angels have free will. God doesn't wanted forced love and obedience. He wants us to Love Him freely with all our heart, mind and strength and also to do unto others as you would have them do unto you, loving them as yourself. Only those who do will be with Him for eternity, and it will be heaven! No devil. No sinners. No demons. No tears. No death.

Kermos · Jul 5, 2021

Continued from post 461

Fifth, conclusions based on the above.

Since some people say proper translation of "to eat" and "to die" depend on the Hebrew language construct, so then there should be no problem switching "freely" to "surely" in Genesis 2:16; furthermore, there should be no problem switching "surely" to "freely" in Genesis 2:17; however, switching or keeping "freely" and/or "surely" causes confusion, yet God is not of confusion but of peace (1 Corinthians 14:33).

After all, "to-eat" followed by "you-will-be-eating" and "to-die" followed by "you-will-be-dying" have the same language construct of "qal infinitive absolute verb form" (to eat/to die) followed by "qal imperfect second person masculine singular verb form" (you-will-be-eating/you-will-be-dying).

The current English translation of "to eat" to "freely" is arbitrary in Genesis 2:16.

As it stands in the English translations, the translation of "to die" to "surely" is arbitrary in Genesis 2:17.

If one says that the vowel marks dictate the language construct, then such a one relies on the Masoretic Manuscript edits that the Masoretes added nearly 2,000 years after the original manuscripts, so that is arbitrary and capricous in Genesis 2:16-17.

The bottom line is that "to eat" must be translated "to eat", and "to die" must be translated "to die".

The word "freely" in the English translations of Genesis 2:16 should not be used because the underlying Hebrew word truly means "to eat".

The word "surely" in the English translations of Genesis 2:17 should not be used because the underlying Hebrew word truly means "to die".

The word "may" in the English translations of Genesis 2:16 improperly represents the underlying Hebrew; rather, the word "will" (verb future tense) is appropriate based on the underlying Hebrew word.

Genesis 2:16-17 contains a command, the word "command" in Genesis 2:16 is singular, not plural, but singular, so all of the Word of God recorded in Genesis 2:16-17 is a single command. The word "may" in Genesis 2:16 used in the English translations linguistically reduces the command to a request because the option of eating from none of the trees would be valid with the word "may"; however, with the word "will" (verb future tense) then the Integrity of a command linguistically remains intact.

For the sake of consistency, if we apply the word "may" into the last of the final two words of Genesis 2:17, just as the English translators did in Genesis 2:16, then it becomes err apparent that the word "may" fails in that position for both verses. The result for Genesis 2:17 would be essentially "day you are to eat of it to die you may be dying" thus a potential punishment is expressed, so this is ambiguous. God is precise, so ambiguous does not work.

This demonstrates that the verbs used by God to construct the final two words of Genesis 2:16and Genesis 2:17 do not contain the word "may".

For Genesis 2:16-17 to be true to form, conjugates of "eat" must be used for each of the final two words in Genesis 2:16, and conjugates of "die" must be used for each of the final two words in Genesis 2:17.

Proper Translastion Based On The Hebrew
First, Genesis 2:16:

and commanded YHWH God to the man, saying "Of every tree in the garden to eat you will be eating"Second, please see this essay's "The Meaning Of The Hebrew Word כִּ֗י(ki)/'for'/'when' in Genesis 2:17 Comparison With Other Portions of Scripture" section explaining the usage of the grammatically accurate word "when".
Third, Genesis 2:17:

"but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, not eating from, when in the day you are to eat of it to die you will be dying"
Fourth, properly bringing the two verses cohesively together to illuminate the entire command Genesis 2:16-17:and commanded YHWH God to the man, saying "Of every tree in the garden to eat you will be eating, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, not eating from, when in the day you are to eat of it to die you will be dying"

Return to main essay "Almighty God's Awesome Creation In Amazing Splendor"

Here you add freewill to the Word of God in "and commanded YHWH God to the man, saying 'Of every tree in the garden to eat you will be eating, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, not eating from, when in the day you are to eat of it to die you will be dying'" (Genesis 2:16-17).

Taken said:
Bummer for Adam. Adam exercised his Freewill to Eat from the Tree of Good and Evil....and did not exercise his Freewill to Eat from the Tree of Life.
And as God said, Eating from the Tree of Good and Evil, would result in Adams death, 'that day'; and it was so.

Glory to God, Faithful and True,
Taken

Here you add freewill to scripture to this scripture which does not contain freewill "she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate" (Genesis 3:6).

Look at you putting yourself on the throne of God as you declare your additions to God's completed scripture again and again and again.

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

post · Jul 6, 2021

Kermos said:
You are contradicting the Apostle Paul who wrote all time prior to the present with "until now" (Romans 8:20-22) or usung what you submitted - prior to "right up to the present time" which means all God created was "very good" (Genesis 1:31) for the creation fits into God's Plan of Redemption through the Christ for mankind before the foundation of the world (see the original post).

Back to you contradicting Paul with your writing of "Not always" directly subtracting "until now" (Romans 8:22).

That "until now" (Romans 8:22) includes "the whole creation" (Romans 8:22).

That "whole creation" (Romans 8:20-22) includes Adam.

Paul includes the "not willingly" (Romans 8:20-22) to apply to the time that Adam ate of the tree (Genesis 3:6).

"Not willingly" (Romans 8:20) for Adam by Paul indicates "not choice" for the recorded words in (Genesis 3:6).

"Not willingly" (Romans 8:20) for Adam by Paul indicates "not freewill" for the recorded words in (Genesis 3:6).

this is rubbish, friend.
you're so obsessed with your hyper-calvinism that you aren't reading the text.
all you do when you look at it is think of how to deny anyone's independent volition in it.
but i ain't even addressing that, as i told you. i'm just talking about what is going on in Genesis 3, because until we get that straight, we can't talk about your hypercalvinism.

Adam was not deceived ((1 Timothy 2)) therefore Adam knew exactly what he was doing.
Woman was first in transgression but sin & death entered the world through Adam ((Romans 5))
Adam sinned in a different way than his wife ((Romans 5))
Adam sinned knowing exactly what he was doing, fully knowing he was doing evil, and choosing it.
he 'listened to the voice of his wife' and that was sin: he wasn't deceived in doing it, and he understood completely that it was contrary to God's will, and he fully comprehended that doing so was evil, not good.

it is said of Adam, and Adam only that he 'became like one of Us knowing good from evil'
-- the language is clear; it is not 'mankind' and it is singular, carrying the definite article, it is the name "Adam"
why is Woman not included in this statement?

because Satan was lying when he told her that she would 'become like God and know good from evil' by eating the tree.
it isn't because of their eating that Adam became a type of Christ. it isn't because of the fruit of the tree of surely-die that he knew good from evil.
it's because he changed his wife's name from Woman to Eve. that is the order of events: God pronounces judgements, Adam changes his dead wife's name to "life", God sheds the blood of a lamb to makes garments for Adam & Eve, and says BEHOLD Adam has become like Elohim, knowing good-from-evil.
so you have to figure out the answer to this question: why did Adam change her name? why does God say BEHOLD and who is God saying BEHOLD to? that's 3rd person, 'Adam has become.. ' -- God isn't talking to Adam. whose benefit is this said for, and why?

post · Jul 6, 2021

"in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil"

- the Father of Lies

how many of you are teaching that Satan was telling the truth here?
eh?

post · Jul 6, 2021

Kermos said:
ruly, it is written "And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat."

Adam was not deceived
(1 Timothy 2:14)

God judges him for listening to the voice of his wife.
what did she say to him?

he was not deceived.
sin entered the world through one man - Romans 5:12
not through Woman, who was the first in transgression. through Adam, who was not deceived.

Adam, who knew the difference between doing right and doing wrong. who knew what God said and knew what his wife had done and knew what was the sinless thing to do and what was the sinful thing to do. Adam, undeceived, 'listens to the voice of his wife'
she doesn't trick him. the serpent doesn't trick him. he doesn't trick himself. he acts voluntarily.

what did she say to him?

post · Jul 6, 2021

Woman was first in transgression, but sin entered the world through Adam.
Adam was not deceived; Woman was ((1 Timothy 2, Romans 5))
both Woman and Adam ate of the tree, but only of Adam did God say
"BEHOLD! Adam has become like one of Us, knowing good from evil!" ((Genesis 3))

this has to be understood before we can have any kind of serious discussion about freewill.
we have to understand what is happening here in the garden.

Tong2020 · Jul 6, 2021

post said:
"in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil"

- the Father of Lies

how many of you are teaching that Satan was telling the truth here?
eh?

What part?

Tong
R3796

Tong2020 · Jul 6, 2021

CharismaticLady said:
Of course, just like the angels have free will. God doesn't wanted forced love and obedience. He wants us to Love Him freely with all our heart, mind and strength and also to do unto others as you would have them do unto you, loving them as yourself. Only those who do will be with Him for eternity, and it will be heaven! No devil. No sinners. No demons. No tears. No death.

Forced love?

Tong
R3797

Kermos · Jul 6, 2021

post said:
Friend you don't seem to have understood any of what I asked.

I asked why they only ate of the tree of dying-ye-shall-die?

Paul wrote that nothing in creation willingly subjected anyting in creation to futility (Romans 8:20); therefore, the why cannot be free will.

Scripture does not state whether they ate of any of the other trees or not.

post said:
Why did they not eat of the tree of life afterwards?

"therefore the LORD God sent him out from the garden of Eden, to cultivate the ground from which he was taken. So He drove the man out; and at the east of the garden of Eden He stationed the cherubim and the flaming sword which turned every direction to guard the way to the tree of life." (Genesis 3:23-24)

post said:
They clearly could have. They had plenty of time, but they made tunics of fig leaves instead. Why?

"she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate. Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loin coverings. They heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves" (Genesis 3:6-8).

Nothing there nor anywhere else in scripture states they had plenty of time.

You are adding "plenty of time" to scripture.

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Kermos · Jul 6, 2021

HisLife said:
Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
God create man in his image and likeness and declared it is was Good, Even Very Good All right there on the first Chapter of a bible clear as you like, Yep Adam Had a Choice he wasn't a robot or an animal and proven by his actions, You have choice as well, your choosing To Deceive and Accuse, you shouldn't do that

You just added "Adam Had a Choice" into the Word of God recorded in Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24.

Furthermore, you just subtracted the Apostle Paul's writing that Adam did not willingly eat of the tree because Paul conveyed that nothing in creation willingly subjected anyting in creation to futility with Paul's writing of "the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly" (Romans 8:20).

You think your word is so very important that you dictate to God as you add to and subtract from scripture.

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

post · Jul 6, 2021

Tong2020 said:
What part?

Tong
R3796

You think it's all true?

post · Jul 6, 2021

Kermos said:
Nothing there nor anywhere else in scripture states they had plenty of time.

How long does it take to gather leaves, sew them into garments, put them on, then go find a place to hide, and hide there?

VS. How long does it take to reach out your hand, pick a fruit and take a bite?

God expects us to have a bit of intelligence when we read His book. Use the common sense He created you with.

Kermos · Jul 6, 2021

post said:
what does 'naked' mean?

You seem more intelligent than to ask that question.

Naked means the flesh is visible.

Adam was made flesh (Genesis 2:7, Genesis 2:23).

The word "naked" in "Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loin coverings" (Genesis 3:7) means that they knew that their flesh was visible and they covered their flesh with loin coverings.

The Apostle Paul wrote "the flesh desires against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh. For these are opposed to one another" (Galatians 5:17).

post said:
did they know they were dead?

Since God did not see fit to reveal it, then there is no reason to discuss it.

post said:
did Adam know his wife was dying when she approached him with the fruit?

Since God did not see fit to reveal it, then there is no reason to discuss it.

post said:
why didn't they eat of the tree of life?

"What if" doesn't matter.

The Word of God says "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever" (Genesis 3:22).

And we Christians joyfully receive the Word of God without question.

post said:
why choose to cover themselves?
why choose fig leaves?

You just added "choose" by way of your question to the recorded words in Genesis 3:7.

Adam could not choose God because no scripture indicates Adam was imparted free will.

Largely, I use free will to mean man choosing toward God, emphatically Lord Jesus Christ.

You frequently keep on writing about free will with respect to things that are NOT choosing God, but that is not the point.

The point is Adam could not choose God because no scripture indicates Adam was imparted free will.

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Taken · Jul 6, 2021

Kermos said:
The Apostle Paul conveyed that no part of the creation willingly subjected any part of the creation to futility when he wrote "the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly" (Romans 8:20).

Rom 8:20
[20] For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

Beating a dead horse repeating Romans 8:20 over and over.

Pay Attention TO:
Matt 13:
[13] Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

You are trying to Establish, men had NOT FREEWILL to Choose God, Because God Chose men First, (whereas Scripture reveals, Men DID NOT first Choose God, But Men DO hear, learn, discover, and DO Choose God).

You further teach, men NEVER Choose God.
Yet, Scripture expressly says THEY DO.

1 Thes 1:
[4] Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

Rom 8:20
CLEARLY, reveals that scripture is SPEAKING of a creature, called a man ALREADY "CREATED".

Rom 8:20
[20] For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

You are trying to use Rom 8:20 as verifying the Creature being Created...without Freewill.

Rom 8:20 IS NOT about the Creature BEING CREATED! The Creature Already Exists.
You have been Clearly TOLD, and Scripturally SHOWN, The Creature (man), Was CREATED, espressly BY GODS WILL. (Not the creatures WILL!!!!)

Rom 8:20
[20] For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

Rom 8:20 speaks of an already existing Creature (man)...being "MADE" subject to "something". (By Gods WILL, By Gods REASONING).

"Created and Made" are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.
"CREATED" IS CAUSING, something to exist, that did not exist.
"MAKING" IS "changing" something ABOUT the "CREATED" thing.

Rom 8:20 the Created man was MADE "changed", by being "MADE" "subject to his OWN vanity." ( mans own thoughts, will, desires, choices, freewill )....and ALSO the same man, "MADE" subject to "HOPE".

Men can VAINLY trust their own thoughts, their own desires, their own thoughts, their own choices...which IS their WILL, freely chosen by them!
Men can ALSO trust whatever they desire, think, choose, to HOPE in and FOR.

You just added "chose" to scripture in Genesis 2:19.
You just added "Freewill" to scripture in Genesis 2:20.
You just added "chose" to scripture in Genesis 3:20.

Click to expand...

Since you obviously DO NOT...
Understand, FREEWILL, IS one CHOOSING, (without the Forced WILL of another), to think, to believe, to do as They WILL.

* Since you obviously DID NOT "by your own WILL", Freely Choose to believe in God, believe in Jesus Christ...

WHO exactly FORCED YOU TO BELIEVE IN GOD? Believe IN JESUS CHRIST?

Look at you putting yourself on the throne of God as you add to scripture again and again and again.

Click to expand...

Look at YOU, (by your own WILL, freely, repeatedly, ( vainly MAKING as scripture says, accusations.

Discussing Scripture is not ADDING to Scripture. IF that were so....then...
By YOUR Understanding....YOU JUST ADDED TO SCRIPTURE...in your next quote of YOUR Words...

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will,

Click to expand...

WHERE IS THIS RICH SCRIPTURE, saying...

Adam was not imparted free will...

Click to expand...

Hummm?

Taken · Jul 6, 2021

Kermos said:
Because freewill is unscriptural, then writing that Adam used his freewill is unbiblical..

Your argument is dead.

Gen 2:16
[16] And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat...

Lev 22:

[18] Speak unto Aaron, and to his sons, and unto all the children of Israel, and say unto them, Whatsoever he be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers in Israel, that will offer his oblation for all his vows, and for all hisfreewill offerings, which they will offer unto the LORD for a burnt offering;
[21] And whosoever offereth a sacrifice of peace offerings unto the LORD to accomplish his vow, or afreewill offering in beeves or sheep, it shall be perfect to be accepted; there shall be no blemish therein.
[23] Either a bullock or a lamb that hath any thing superfluous or lacking in his parts, that mayest thou offer for a freewill offering; but for a vow it shall not be accepted.

Lev.23

[38] Beside the sabbaths of the LORD, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all yourfreewill offerings, which ye give unto the LORD.

Num.15

[3] And will make an offering by fire unto the LORD, a burnt offering, or a sacrifice in performing a vow, or in a freewill offering, or in your solemn feasts, to make a sweet savour unto the LORD, of the herd, or of the flock:

Num.29

[39] These things ye shall do unto the LORD in your set feasts, beside your vows, and your freewillofferings, for your burnt offerings, and for your meat offerings, and for your drink offerings, and for your peace offerings.

Deut.12

[6] And thither ye shall bring your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, and your tithes, and heave offerings of your hand, and your vows, and your freewill offerings, and the firstlings of your herds and of your flocks:
[17] Thou mayest not eat within thy gates the tithe of thy corn, or of thy wine, or of thy oil, or the firstlings of thy herds or of thy flock, nor any of thy vows which thou vowest, nor thy freewill offerings, or heave offering of thine hand:

Deut.16

[10] And thou shalt keep the feast of weeks unto the LORD thy God with a tribute of a freewill offering of thine hand, which thou shalt give unto the LORD thy God, according as the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:

Deut.23

[23] That which is gone out of thy lips thou shalt keep and perform; even a freewill offering, according as thou hast vowed unto the LORD thy God, which thou hast promised with thy mouth.

2Chr.31

[14] And Kore the son of Imnah the Levite, the porter toward the east, was over the freewill offerings of God, to distribute the oblations of the LORD, and the most holy things.

Ezra.1

[4] And whosoever remaineth in any place where he sojourneth, let the men of his place help him with silver, and with gold, and with goods, and with beasts, beside the freewill offering for the house of God that is in Jerusalem.

Ezra.3

[5] And afterward offered the continual burnt offering, both of the new moons, and of all the set feasts of the LORD that were consecrated, and of every one that willingly offered a freewill offering unto the LORD.

Ezra.7

[13] I make a decree, that all they of the people of Israel, and of his priests and Levites, in my realm, which are minded of their own freewill to go up to Jerusalem, go with thee.
[16] And all the silver and gold that thou canst find in all the province of Babylon, with the freewill offering of the people, and of the priests, offering willingly for the house of their God which is in Jerusalem:

Ezra.8

[28] And I said unto them, Ye are holy unto the LORD; the vessels are holy also; and the silver and the gold are a freewill offering unto the LORD God of your fathers.

Pss.119

[108] Accept, I beseech thee, the freewill offerings of my mouth, O LORD, and teach me thy judgments.

post · Jul 6, 2021

Kermos said:
You seem more intelligent than to ask that question.

Naked means the flesh is visible.

You think they had clothes prior to eating?
I'm not asking for your human definition of 'naked' - it's useless.

This is the word of God we're talking about, so we need God's definition of 'naked' - and everything is laid bare before Him.

So our job is to search the scripture for 'naked' and piece together what God means by it.
Our job when we read scripture isn't to dismiss it as being simple or not worth thinking about or asking questions about. Our job is to pore over it, studying it with every effort, looking for how it testifies of Christ.

So what does God mean by naked?

HisLife · Jul 6, 2021

Kermos said:
You just added "Adam Had a Choice" into the Word of God recorded in Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24.

Furthermore, you just subtracted the Apostle Paul's writing that Adam did not willingly eat of the tree because Paul conveyed that nothing in creation willingly subjected anyting in creation to futility with Paul's writing of "the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly" (Romans 8:20).

You think your word is so very important that you dictate to God as you add to and subtract from scripture.

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Back to square one, we have been through this...The thing is you tried these accusations earlier so I showed you scripture that proved you wrong, You completely ignored the point doubled down on your nature and change the point so you can accuse again even on points we have been through before, your misuse of scripture shows me you don't understand the verses you use, 1 Corinthians 2:14, If someone is not Born again they are a slave to sin, If you are not born again you wont understand the scriptures you use and you will just keep doing what your doing your a slave to it, Look if you don't have free will what are you trying to achieve you cant change anything anyway, Your just playing out your nature and cant change anyone or anything your just playing games as an accuser, But you don't have to be a slave to Sin you have a choice as exampled below

You picked a point of not having a choice, if you can actually stick to a point and actually discuss, its an easy point notice the choice in the verse below, you need to make a choice

Joshua 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

post · Jul 6, 2021

Kermos said:
there is no reason

listen mr. Kermos, i really don't give a $#@% about your hyper-calvinism crusade.
but you need to understand Genesis 2-4 before you can go around thinking you can teach anything from it.

so what does naked mean?

they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
(Genesis 2:25)

did Adam & his wife become naked by eating the fruit of the tree of death? nope.
note that shame is associated with nakedness here, and we're being specifically told that they had no shame being naked.
why not?
what makes a naked person ashamed?
there's no sin in the world in Genesis 2:25 -- are they unashamed because they are mindless, blind idiots who didn't even realize they had no tunics? or are they unashamed because they have no reason it be ashamed? do sinless man & woman have anything to hide? are God's perfect, sinless, "very good" first human couple oblivious morons? is that your position? and then sinning makes them wise and observant? is that what you're going with? are you going with, "Satan the Father of Lies was 100% correct, God's intention was for them to be imbecilic and to hide knowledge and wisdom and moral understanding from them" ?

they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings.
(Genesis 3:7)

different situation here. they are dead. they have sin. they make coverings. are they ashamed now? yes:

I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; and I hid myself.
(Genesis 3:10)

Adam, who is not deceived, knowing he was naked, is now afraid, covering himself, and ducking meetings, not being where he's expected.
what kind of behavior is that?
it's shame. Genesis 3:7 & 10 are the direct counterpoint to Genesis 2:25. Adam & Woman were naked & not ashamed with no sin, then they were naked and ashamed with sin. naked did not change: nothing says they didn't know they were naked prior to this. sin & shame changed.
so why are they ashamed?
are the wicked ashamed of their sin? do the repentant have shame or no-shame?

why is Adam hiding?
who is he hiding from? why is he afraid? what needs to be covered? do fig leaves cover it? from God? from who?

Adam isn't deceived -- does he think God won't see him if he covers himself with fig leaves? is Adam that stupid? do you know the omniscience of God better than Adam who walked with Him? so what is Adam doing? why? it would take him 30 seconds to reach out and eat from the fruit of the tree of life, but he spends a whole lot more than 30 seconds picking fig leaves, making a needle, stripping vine for thread, and sewing them all together into tunics. why? what is he thinking? is he a complete idiot? would you have done something wiser? do you think wow how stupid is the first human, created without sin and walking with God in the garden, naming every living soul? why doesn't he just get two elephant-ear leaves and call it a day? why doesn't he eat from the tree of life -- does it cure death?

do you even think about any of this at all when you read your Bible, @Kermos? or do you just skim through it going "yep hypercalvinist, hpercalvinist, hypercalvinist... nothing to see here... hypercalvinism, hpercalvinism... the rest doesn't matter"

??

WHY DO THEY SUDDENLY CARE THAT THEY ARE NAKED?
WHY FIGS?
WHY MAKE TUNICS?

is Genesis 2-4 a story that completely falls apart if a person asks simple, obvious questions about the narrative? do i wreck the Bible by just asking why?
or do you have an answer for any of this?

if you do not have answers for any of this it's hard for me to think you are in any way qualified to sit here in this thread and judge everyone's responses. if you don't really know what's going on here, if you don't comprehend the narrative, then you really don't have any idea if there's freewill in Genesis, because you don't know what Genesis actually says: all you're doing is arguing about words.

which is it?

Kermos · Jul 6, 2021

post said:
i didn't say she was a replacement. i asked why Adam called his wife Woman by the name Eve at the moment that he did so.

he changed her name ((lol not change wives)) -- why?

I was under the impression that you were more intelligent than that, but here is a more pedantic version for you, @post.

Scripture does not state the the name Eve (Genesis 3:20) is a replacement for the name Woman (Genesis 2:23).

Your question is irrelevant to the fact that scripture does not indicate free will for Adam nor Eve, just like Paul wrote with "not willingly" and "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?

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