Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?

As this thread progressed a consistent pattern emerged. Free-willians infuse their thoughts into the Word of God.

Free-willians convey they must apply their "sense common to man" or "critical thinking" or the like, their thoughts, into the Word of God in order to extract the truth and teach the truth and preach the truth.

In this, free-willian philosophers expose the treasure of their hearts (Matthew 15:18),

"CRITICAL THINKING" = "PRECEPTS OF MEN"

Free-willians teach that the Word of God is not enough without their "critical thinking", their thoughts. Their type of thinking is just like the people during Jeremiah's time (Jeremiah 5:30-31, Jeremiah 23:1-2, Jeremiah 50:6).

Free-willian's "critical thinking" is "the precepts of men" which leads to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

TRULY WISE

In contrast, the Wisdom of us Christians is Christ Himself, not our own autonomously generated thoughts, but truly Christ is the Wisdom of God in the thoughts of us Christians (1 Corinthians 1:24).

THE PURE WORD

The Word of God is pure and wonderful in the Way of salvation (1 Peter 2:2).

We Christian's love, respect, honor, and proclaim the pure Word of God, and we do this by the very Power of God (1 Corinthians 1:24).

Purity is unpolluted. A thing that is pure contains zero contaminants, no poison.

Free-willian's "critical thinking", their thoughts, pollute the Word of God such that it is no longer the Word of God but rather it is "the word of man", "the precepts of men" which leads to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

HOLY GOD'S RIGHTEOUS THOUGHTS CONTRASTED BY MAN'S FALLABLE THOUGHTS

A word about free-willian's "critical thinking", free-willian thoughts. It is written, "'For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,' declares YHWH. 'For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts.'" (Isaiah 55:8-9).

To the free-willian, your "critical thinking", your thoughts are your own autonomously generated thoughts - that is you rule by your own authority in your thoughts (Jeremiah 5:31), not Christ's exclusive authority (Matthew 28:18), but your unregenerate authority of your flesh.

HUMAN PRIDE

"Pride [goes] before destruction, and a haughty spirit before stumbling" (Proverbs 16:18).

The Word of God says there is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) - Jesus, being God (John 20:28), did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8, Psalm 3:8)!

In pride, the heart of a free-willian claims to choose Jesus thus the free-willian directly rejects Jesus for Jesus self-declares His exclusive sovereignty in man's salvation. That is, Jesus says "I AM", but the free-willian says "Jesus, you are not, rather I am".

In contrast, a broken and a contrite heart (Psalm 51:17) prays, Lord, "let not the foot of pride come upon me" (Psalm 36:11).

FREE-WILLIANS REJECT CHRIST

"He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day" (John 12:48) says Lord Jesus.

Since free-willians claim "I chose Jesus" or "I accepted Jesus" or some such, then free-willians do not receive Jesus Christ's sayings of "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

That means that free-willians reject Jesus Who self-declares His exclusive sovereignty in man's salvation; in other words, Jesus says "I AM" (John 8:58), but the free-willian says "Jesus, you are not, rather I am" (John 12:48).

A WICKED IMPLICATION OF FREE-WILL PHILOSOPHY

Free-willians wickedly call Jesus Christ a deceiving spirit because free-willians say Christ's words of "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) are a lie. Lord Jesus Christ spoke these words to all His own sheep in all time for He says to the apostles "what I say to you I say to all" (Mark 13:37).

Truly, the Word of God is the truth (John 14:6), and His words are life (John 6:63).

Conversely, free-willians heartily lie, and free-willians add to His words.

A word about adding to scripture as free-willians do. It is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6), and the above explanation of free-willian's thoughts shows where free-willians added to scripture.

Of the new Jerusalem, the Apostle John wrote "nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life" (Revelation 21:27) - notice that no one who practices lying gets in, and a human adding to scripture is the human lying.

RETURNING TO THE CREATION ACCOUNT AND IT'S IMPACT ON FUTURE GENERATIONS

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbiddenl for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Tong2020 said:

I reacted to your post and I quote:

“<<<John's writings are for us believers to believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God>>>”

And my reaction was “???”

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Such use of punctuation is indicative of disagreement - of which you repeatedly post.

Tong2020 said:

And look at your reaction to that. Very long and starts off with and I quote:

“Now, your heart conveys that the Apostle John's writing does not apply to the Apostle John's writing.”

Well…..such fingers you have there, ever ready to point, and quick to conclude, and judge one’s heart.

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Since you indicated disagreement, then your heart conveys that the Apostle John's writing does not apply to the Apostle John's writing.

You are profoundly confused, yet "God is not a God of confusion but of peace" (1 Corinthians 14:33).

Tong2020 said:

Regarding that statement of yours, you don’t seem to see any error there, and I quote:

“…for us believers to believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God”

If you still don’t see it, just say so. I will be most willing to spell it out to you.

Tong
R4178

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Truly, John 20:31 is spiritually applied accurately in the following.

JOHN'S WRITINGS FOR US BELIEVERS

The Apostle John wrote "these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name" (John 20:31).

Among the writings of John includes the statements of Jesus "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19). These sayings of Jesus Christ, Lord and God (John 20:28), are part and parcel of the exclusive attribute of Jesus with respect to choice in the salvation of all His sheep in all time.

John's writings are for us believers to believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing we have life in His Name; therefore, belief in Jesus about whom John wrote includes the exclusive centrality of choice reserved to Jesus by Jesus through Jesus in the salvation of all His sheep in all time.

Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) to all His own disciples (John 10:27-29) in all time.

Related post 1: more disciples present at supper

Related post 2: Free-willian's Claim To Superiority Over The Apostles

Related post 3: The Friend Of Jesus (John 15:15) Is Exclusively Chosen By Jesus (John 15:16)

Related post 4: Lord Jesus says "what I say to you I say to all" believers in Jesus Mark 13:37)

Related post 5: Lord Jesus Prophesies And Declares The Holy Spirit Indwelling Believers In Jesus Thus "You" In John 14-17 Includes All Believers In Jesus In All Time

Related post 6: Lord Jesus' prayer for us believers

Related post 7: Lord Jesus indicates during the supper that more than the 12 apostles were at the supper

Related post 8: John's writings for we believers in all time

Related post 9: Christ binds Christians with communion is by Christ in Christ for Christ

Related post 10: God the Grantor And God the Concealer And God the Revealer

Related post 11: Lord Jesus commands us His chosen believers to go and teach and proclaim with his exclusive authoritative sovereignty declared

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Ronald Nolette said:

So was Adam compelled to eat or not?

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The Word of God says "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'" (Genesis 3:17).

GOD LITERALLY STATES THE CAUSE FOR ADAM EATING OF THE TREE FORBIDDEN AS FOOD WAS THAT ADAM LISTENED TO THE VOICE OF HIS WIFE (GENESIS 3:17).

Ronald Nolette said:

If He had free will He had the choice to eat or not. If He did not have free will then He was compelled to eat at the sound of Eves voice.

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"Free-will" is not in Genesis 3:17.

"Choice" is not in Genesis 3:17.

"Compelled" is not in Genesis 3:17.

No matter which "choice" you exercise, Ronald Nolette, you are wickedly adding to the Word of God.

Ronald Nolette said:

You can try to muddy this simple fact with all your obfuscation, but this is what it boils down to. either Adam chose to eat freely or he had to eat and had no choice.

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Your heart's wicked assertion opposes the Apostle Paul's writing.

The Apostle Paul conveyed that Adam did not willingly eat of the tree forbidden as food subjecting creation to futility (Romans 8:20-22), as this post in this thread shows.

Ronald Nolette said:

Just simply answer this, without all the verbal methane.

there is no Scripture that allows you to walk 40 miles in 2 days, so do you refuse to do so because there is no Scripture allowing you ?

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Many places in Scripture indicates man travels, so travel is scriptural.

Ronald Nolette said:

So how do yu define free will? Maybe you define it differently than most of us do.

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Free-will philosophy covers a broad area.

Such as these items:

• deciding what toothpaste to buy.
• choosing away from God.
• choosing toward God.

The third item is the only item, "choosing toward God", which pertains to man being successfully saved from the wrath of God according to free-willian philosophy, so this is a priority with respect to the framing of this thread.

The first two items are not indicative of resulting in salvation for a person according to free-willian philosophy, so both of these items are a lower priority with respect to the framing of this thread.

Since no scripture indicates that man was created with a free-will, then I define free-will as an evil precept of men which leads to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbiddenl for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Abaxvahl said:

1) Define an indication of inspiration, for the Song of Songs does not even mention God in it as far as I know, and definitely does not include "thus says the Lord."

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"Put me like a seal over your heart,
(Song of Solomon 8:6).

Solomon attributes love to the One True God.

Love is a central theme of The Song of Solomon.

God is love (1 John 4:8).

This is the wise King Solomon of whom the Word of God said "Because you have asked this thing and have not asked for yourself long life, nor have asked riches for yourself, nor have you asked for the life of your enemies, but have asked for yourself discernment to understand justice, behold, I have done according to your words. Behold, I have given you a wise and discerning heart, so that there has been no one like you before you, nor shall one like you arise after you" (1 Kings 3:11-12).

The Hebrew Bible contains the Song of Solomon; on the other hand, the Hebrew Bible does not contain Sirach.

The Song of Solomon is authoritative; on the other hand, Sirach is non-authoritative.

YOUR ASSERTION LEADS TO CONFUSION.

You are profoundly confused, yet "God is not a God of confusion but of peace" (1 Corinthians 14:33).

Abaxvahl said:

2) The prologue of St. Luke's Gospel says that it seemed best to him to make an orderly account, yet the whole of that Gospel and that prologue are inspired.

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Luke is a member of the Assembly of God for he wrote "among us" (Luke 1:1); therefore, the Holy Spirit indwelt Luke at the time he wrote "Inasmuch as many have undertaken to compile an account of the things accomplished among us, just as they were handed down to us by those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and servants of the word, it seemed fitting for me as well, having investigated everything carefully from the beginning, to write it out for you in consecutive order, most excellent Theophilus; so that you may know the exact truth about the things you have been taught." (Luke 1:1-4).

Therefore Luke wrote under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

YOU HAVE NOW TRIED TO REMOVE THE AUTHORITATIVE POSITION, THE VERY INSPIRATION OF GOD, OF THE BOOK OF LUKE, SO THAT IS ANTICHRIST.

You are profoundly confused, yet "God is not a God of confusion but of peace" (1 Corinthians 14:33).

Abaxvahl said:

Your proofs are lacking in reason due to the above two reasons.

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Your "two reasons" is void, as is shown.

You can flip over, and try to hop on your head over and over, yet it will not change the fact that the book of Sirach is not inspired by God.

Abaxvahl said:

Moreover free will is easily proven out of the rest of the books and even the NT alone, which is not at all contrary to anything you cited here. Amen, the Lord Jesus says "I chose you,"

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You wickedly subtracted "you did not choose Me, but" from the Word of God which precedes the phrase you quoted of "I chose you".

Lord Jesus Christ's declaration is "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).

The Lord's words of "you did not choose Me" (John 15:16) eliminates any ability for man free will choosing Jesus unto salvation, and this applies to the entirety of the Holy Writ.

After all, it is said the OT is the NT concealed, and the NT is the OT revealed.

YOU FAIL TO PROVIDE A SINGLE SCRIPTURE THAT MAN WAS IMPARTED A FREE WILL CAPABLE OF CHOOSING GOD, INSTEAD ALL YOU DO IS DECEPTIVELY CLAIM IT EXISTS.

Abaxvahl said:

but does that mean a person chosen did not will also?

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Not apart from God working a chosen person's will for the Apostle Paul wrote that a believer's will and believer's work is the work of God in believers with "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for [His] good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13).

A BELIEVER'S "WILL" IS WONDERFULLY AND BLESSEDLY BOUND TO GOD!

You convey that man autonomously "wills"; on the other hand, the Apostle Paul conveys that God causes the man to righteously "will".

One of you is dead wrong, and it's not Paul.

Abaxvahl said:

Firstly you need to define "free will." I go with a more classical definition, I think your whole issue might just be the proliferation of modern and false definitions in the Church. My definition of free will is not incompatible with:

1) The claim that God chose us.
2) That God's will is always and in all things accomplished and no one can subvert it.
3) That prophecy is incompatible with free will (God truly said "when you eat..." and it truly was going to happen, but also Adam freely willed to eat according to my definition).
4) Generally any claim concerning God's sovereignty or absolute providence and control over the world.

I in fact agree with you on these points, and I follow the Lord Jesus who is the Son of God.

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Free-willian philosophy absolutely requires the precept that man autonomously free-will chooses Messiah Jesus unto said man being saved from the wrath of God.

Abaxvahl said:

Sirach in fact does not contradict these claims when free will is rightly defined (which it most often is not).

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In your paragraph there, you openly convey that you follow Jesus the son of Sirach.

In your paragraph there, you openly convey that you preach the word of Jesus the son of Sirach.

I follow Jesus the Son of God.

I proclaim the Word of God Jesus the Lord (John 1:14).

Your preaching of Sirach can be entirely disregarded as utterly irrelevant based on the above facts inthe post to which you replied.

The Word of God says there is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) - Jesus, being God (John 20:28), did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8, Psalm 3:8)!

You reject Who Jesus says He is, even the exclusive Controller (Sovereign, Chooser) in man's salvation.

You do not receive Jesus' sayings, even man's inability to choose Jesus.

"He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day" (John 12:48) says Lord Jesus.

You proclaim the word of @Abaxvahl. For you adulterate the Word of God with "man choosing God" such that it is no longer the Word of God.

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Enoch111 said:

This is just a FANTASY you have created for yourself. Neither the Bible nor ordinary observation supports this nonsense.

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Look at your post, Enoch111, it is devoid of the Word of God! Your post is full of your errant thoughts.

The Word of God says "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'" (Genesis 3:17).

THE WORD OF GOD LITERALLY STATES THE CAUSE FOR ADAM EATING OF THE TREE FORBIDDEN AS FOOD WAS THAT ADAM LISTENED TO THE VOICE OF HIS WIFE (GENESIS 3:17).

Your heart says that the CAUSE was that Adam "chose", so in effect you add to the Word of God as such "Because you chose to listen to the voice of your wife" (the word of Enoch111).

You just added "Adam had a free-will choice" into the Word of God recorded in Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24.

The Apostle Paul conveys that Adam did not willingly eat of the tree forbidden as food because Paul wrote that nothing in creation willingly subjected anyting in creation to futility with his writing of "the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly" (Romans 8:20-22).

PAUL LITERALLY REMOVED "WILL" FROM INVOLVEMENT WHEN ADAM ATE OF THE TREE FORBIDDEN AS FOOD.

The thoughts of your heart says that FREE-WILL drove Adam to "chose" to eat of that tree, so in effect you subtract the Apostle Paul's writing of "not willingly" in Romans 8:20-22.

A word about your thoughts. It is written, "'For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,' declares the LORD. 'For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts.'" (Isaiah 55:8-9).

A word about adding to scripture as you have done. It is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6), and the above explanation of your thoughts shows where you added to scripture.

Of the new Jerusalem, the Apostle John wrote "nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life" (Revelation 21:27) - notice that no one who practices lying gets in, and a human adding to scripture is the human lying.

Your free will assertion is referring to man attempting to override God's thoughts with man's thoughts, and that is evil.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbiddenl for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Tong2020 said:

I will listen to what scriptures proclaim rather than what you say you proclaim.

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You do not listen to all the proclamation of scripture.

You dictate to scripture.

Here are the proofs.

The evidence of you adulterating the Word of God is in this post shows that you call the Apostle Paul a liar and further in the post your vehement distaste of Paul is shown and this post shows your heart confusedly subtracting the Apostle John's writing from the Apostle John's writing and
this post and this post shows that you call Jesus a deceiving spirit and this post shows you calling Joshua a liar and false prophet and this post shows @Tong2020 calling the Apostle Peter a liar and this post shows you admitting to your adherence to the precepts of men which leads to worship in vain

Tong2020 said:

Just so you know and not waste your time on me.

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I proclaim the end of the unadulterated Word of God see you.

Therefore, you call the Word of God a waste.

Truly, the Word of God does not return void, so God's purpose will be served (Isaiah 55:11).

Tong2020 said:

I suggest you find somebody else to talk to and proclaim to.

Tong
R4272

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Tong2020, as long as you place the thoughts of your hearts into the Word of God, then it is no longer the Word of God, but truly it becomes the "word of Tong2020", which the "word of Tong2020" is the precept of man leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbiddenl for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Abaxvahl said:

Define free will, for none of your claims about God's control and sovereignty are contrary to it rightly defined. I also am a divine causal determinist, so none of what you have said concerning this refutes me.

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Free-will philosophy covers a broad area.

Such as these items:

• deciding what toothpaste to buy.
• choosing away from God.
• choosing toward God.

The third item is the only item, "choosing toward God", which pertains to man being successfully saved from the wrath of God according to free-willian philosophy, so this is a priority with respect to the framing of this thread.

The first two items are not indicative of resulting in salvation for a person according to free-willian philosophy, so both of these items are a lower priority with respect to the framing of this thread.

Since no scripture indicates that man was created with a free-will, then I define free-will as an evil precept of men which leads to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

Because of the word "free" in "free will", and you are an advocate of "free will"; therefore, you are unmistakably a "free willian"; additionally, that which God had me proclaim to you is accurate.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbiddenl for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Ronald Nolette said:

Why do you keep avoiding answering the question you know is there.

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God had me address your question according to the Word of God.

Here, the scriptural response is again presented to you since you seem so profoundly confused.

"Free-will" is not in Genesis 3:17 (quoted below).

"Chose" is not in Genesis 3:17.

"Compelled" is not in Genesis 3:17.

No matter which "choice" among the above three options you "choose", Ronald Nolette, you are wickedly adding to the Word of God.

I have no intention of participating in your folly of destruction, that is, your adding to the Word of God.

Ronald Nolette said:

If Adam listened to HIs wife and ate- then He was compelled.

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The Word of God says "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'" (Genesis 3:17).

GOD LITERALLY STATES THE CAUSE FOR ADAM EATING OF THE TREE FORBIDDEN AS FOOD WAS THAT ADAM LISTENED TO THE VOICE OF HIS WIFE (GENESIS 3:17).

"Compelled" is not in Genesis 3:17.

You're if-then statement is plagued by deception.

Ronald Nolette said:

If not then He made a free choice to listen (obey) the voice of his wife.

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The Apostle Paul conveyed that Adam did not willingly eat of the tree forbidden as food subjecting creation to futility (Romans 8:20-22), as this post in this thread shows.

ADAM COULD NOT MAKE A FREE-WILL CHOICE TO LISTEN TO THE VOICE OF HIS WIFE SINCE THE APOSTLE PAUL WROTE "THE CREATION WAS SUBJECTED TO FUTILITY, NOT WILLINGLY" ... "UNTIL NOW" (ROMANS 8:20-22).

You convey your heart's treasure of "the creation was subjected to futility free willingly" (Ronald Nolette's contrivance).

RONALD NOLETTE ASSERTES THE OPPOSITE OF THE APOSTLE PAUL.

Your heart's wicked assertion opposes the Holy Spirit of God (Galatians 5:17) for the Apostle Paul wrote Romans 8:20-22 under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit of God.

Ronald Nolette said:

You know what the reality is and you keep avoiding it like it was the covid virus.

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Truly, the reality is that you have so much deception in what you posted:

• you added "free" as in "free will" into the Word of God recorded in Genesis 3:17.
• you added "choice" into the Word of God recorded in Genesis 3:17.
• the word "listen" is not the word "obey", so you added to and/or subtracted from the Word of God recorded in Genesis 3:17.

You exalt yourself and your word so lofty high that you dictate to God as you add to and subtract from scripture.

You dictate to God instead of listening, unlike Mary (Luke 10:39).

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbiddenl for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Part 1 of 3 (I refer to this post series as merely post in the following content)

Abaxvahl said:

I will ignore your lack of reading ability, and focus on the core of the issue since you seem to think I somehow disagree with you on a point where we are otherwise in agreement but you lack the basic knowledge to see it. Anyway let me set this straight in a child's English since you can't seem to get it: I DO NOT hold that man chooses God, that is plainly against the Scriptures, rather God chooses us in Christ through His grace.

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By the conclusion of this post, based upon your writings, God has me demonstrate that you do claim the ability to choose Jesus, Lord and God (John 20:28), despite the Christ's words of "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).

Not only do you contradict Jesus, but you contradict yourself. In your unscriptural recitation below, you wrote "if rational liberty consisted in simple indeterminacy of the will, then no fruitful distinction could be made between personal agency and pure impersonal impulse or pure chance".

See where you wrote "personal agency".

At that point you establish your ungodly free-will meaning of autonomy apart from God.

Abaxvahl said:

On the contrary I think that by grace a man can be freed by God to serve God, but this is not from the man but a gift of God, for "whoever commits a sin is a slave of sin" and "whoever the Son sets free is free indeed." When we are set free by God (we can not set ourselves free) we can "walk in the good works prepared for us to do."

That there is a choice which people can make (by grace alone) is shown in the Scriptures for if there was not any ability to choose there would not be a command to choose for it says:

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Scripture contains many conditional logic statements. A conditional logic statement is normally an IF/THEN construct.

In linguistics, logic, semantics, and reality the established fact is that an IF/THEN construct follows this pattern:

IF condition THEN predicate

The condition results in a true state or false state. If, and only if, the condition results in a true state does the predicate get executed.

An IF-THEN construct merely exposes whether a condition is true or false; consequently, an if/then statement does not inherently convey ability to produce a true state for the condition.

An IF/THEN construct exposes a potential, current, or previously taken PATH along with the PATH's resultant IMPACT.

So, an IF-THEN construct imposes a conditionl expression and a predicate, for example,

IF ACTION THEN RESULT

Moreover, no conveyance of ability exists intrinsically within the if-then construct.
In scripture, an ACTION represents fruit for the Word of God says "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn [bushes] nor figs from thistles, are they? So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, you will know them by their fruits" (Matthew 7:15-20) and "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5).

In language, an IF/THEN statement requires a qualifier to indicate choice, for example, "if you choose chocolate then you eat chocolate" thus the qualifier in the conditional is "choose", but the conditional still does not convey ability to "choose" which such conveyance of ability to "choose" necessitates additional language connected with the IF-THEN statement, such as "you have the ability to choose" since the predicate cannot be executed in the absence of a supply of chocolate.

In Scripture, "you have the ability to choose God" is never expressed nor implied, yet, on the contrary to such a statement of "choose", the Word of God says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) with no exceptions to the stated choosing while applying to all believers in all time (John 17:20).

These facts of IF/THEN statements do not disappear in scripture.

An IF/THEN can be expressed likewise as:

IF you_do_this that_will_happen

Thus, the conditional expresses an action/fruit in the condition (you_do_this), and the effectual result in the predicate (that_will_happen).
A conditional does not convey ability to the recipient of the conditional.

The same goes for a command, that is, a command does not convey ability to carry out the command.

For example, the command "do not do this" does not inherently grant the capability to comply with the command.

Neither a conditional nor a command convey ability to choose unless specifically stated.

Part 1 of 3, continued to post #975

Part 2 of 3, continued from post #974

Abaxvahl said:

"I invoke as a witness against you today the heaven and the earth: life and death I have set before you, blessing and curse. So choose life, so that you may live, you and your offspring, by loving Yahweh your God by listening to his voice and by clinging to him, for he is your life and the length of your days in order for you to live on the land that Yahweh swore to your ancestors, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give to them."

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Moses' command "choose life" did not state that the people had the ability to "choose life".

Of commands, the Apostle Peter said "Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?" (Acts 15:10); therefore, Peter conveys that the Israelites were unable to accomplish the commands of God to God's satisfaction by way of the Israelites "personal agency".

The account of Nebuchadnezzar being used by God to punish the Israelites by removing the Israelites/Judeans from the land is proof that the Israelites did not "choose life"; therefore, the command "choose life" is an example of a yoke that the Israelites were unable to bear, so "choose life" is not an example of a man's purported ability to successfully "choose".

Furthermore, Moses continued to explain what "choose life" means as well as the results for the fruit of obedience to the command.

"Choose" in Deuteronomy 30:19-20 does not impart free will ability for man.

Abaxvahl said:

"Do not envy a man of violence, and do not choose any of his ways for he who is perverse is an abomination of Yahweh, but those who are upright are his confidence."

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As this post in this thread shows scripturally, the natural man is the first state for every man, so the natural man is violent - whether against God and/or others of mankind.

The words recorded in Proverbs 3:31, which you quoted, do not state that man was created with the ability to choose God; on the other hand, everyone is perverse apart from the Power of God (1 Corinthians 1:24) causing persons to be born again (John 3:3-8) getting a new heart and a new spirit (Ezekiel 36:26).

"Choose" in Proverbs 3:31 does not impart free will ability for man.

Abaxvahl said:

"'Therefore I will judge you, house of Israel, each one according to his ways,' declares the Lord Yahweh. 'Repent and turn around from all of your transgression, and it will not be as a stumbling block of iniquity to you. Throw away from yourselves all of your transgressions that you committed, and make for yourselves a new heart and new spirit, and so why will you die, house of Israel? For I have no pleasure in the death of the dying,' declares the Lord Yahweh. 'And so repent and live!'"

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Persons repent by God's working, for the Christ of us Christians says

"I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes" (Matthew 11:25)

AND the apostles and elders glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life" (Acts 11:18)

SO, clearly, Jesus' words in Matthew 11:25 state that God causes man to think differently after an encounter with God (repent means to think differently afterward)

Repentance of man is not free will. Truly repentance of man is God working in man.

"Repent" in Ezekiel 18:30-32 does not impart free will ability for man.

Abaxvahl said:

Is it your contention that the language of choice and turning in the Scriptures not only here but also elsewhere in the Scriptures is false?

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You clearly add the ability to "choose" where it does not exist in Scripture, so your action is evil.

Abaxvahl said:

What does it mean to "choose life" or to "not choose evil" or to "repent and turn" if not actually to do it? But you and your false diabolical dialectical tension bring in contradiction because of your insistence on a modernist and heretical definition of free will which you claim is in contradiction to the Scriptures. Of course it is! It comes from the world and not God, but let me show you (you showing yourself incapable of finding it) a true definition:

"Freedom is a being’s power to flourish as what it naturally is, to become ever more fully what it is. The freedom of an oak seed is its uninterrupted growth into an oak tree. The freedom of a rational spirit is its consummation in union with God. Freedom is never then the mere 'negative liberty' of indeterminate openness to everything; if rational liberty consisted in simple indeterminacy of the will, then no fruitful distinction could be made between personal agency and pure impersonal impulse or pure chance."

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You proclaim a whole lot of unscriptural precepts of men that leads to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9), even when you reform your quotation further in your post.

Abaxvahl said:

If you think for a moment you'd see that this is in no way contrary to what the Scriptures put forth, for who is it that causes us to have union with God? Obviously it is God, without Him we would fall and die and be damned for we do not have the freedom to choose to have a consummate union with God, to be saved, to Resurrect ourselves in glory, and so on, as the Scriptures put forth:

"You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you."

Now notice what immediately follows, when we are CHOSEN and APPOINTED (but did not chose Him in fact "HE CHOSE US WHILE WE WERE YET SINNERS"), this comes immediately next: "These things I command you, so that you will love one another."

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The true source of the "love" when we born of God "love one another" (John 15:17) is the Word of God.

We born of God love by God's working in us for the Christ of us Christians says:

"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another" (John 13:34)

AND the Apostle John is in accord with Jesus' words for he wrote "Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God" (1 John 4:7)

SO, clearly, Jesus' words in John 13:34 states that the love, the very righteous love, the Godly love within us children of God, this love is from/of/by/through God

God's love flows through us born of God, and we openly attribute love to God.

"Love" in John 15:17 does not impart free will ability for man.

Part 2 of 3, continued to post #976

Part 3 of 3, continued from post #975

Abaxvahl said:

And look at what St. Paul says, which by the Holy Spirit this verse is clearly connected to the one above: "For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another."

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"Freedom" is freedom from sin as in "So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed" (John 8:36).

Paul clearly conveys that we born of God "have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life" (Romans 6:22), and we born of God do not to use our freedom from sin as an excuse to practice "the deeds of the flesh" (sinning) such as "immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God" (Galatians 5:19-21); nonetheless, we born of God love one another for "the fruit of the Spirit is love" (Galatians 5:22).

Righteous love is the act of God in man, not man acting autonomously (free-will).

You quoted Galatians 5:13 where you convey your use of "freedom", as in free will, to indicate that man autonomously loves, but Galatians 5:22 makes it clear love in us born of God is fruit of the Spirit.

Therefore, your use of love is you stealing from God.

"Freedom" in Galatians 5:13 does not impart free will ability for man.

Abaxvahl said:

We know God is love and so may rightly connect the verses "And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules." Note how it is GOD who does this, but we can connect it with: "Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom."

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"Freedom" still does not impart free will ability for man.

Abaxvahl said:

So I reform the quotation of freedom above: the freedom of a son of God is to love.

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Here you claim your freedom is your ability to love God.

Abaxvahl said:

When we are walking in that we are walking in freedom, and THAT is what I call a "free will"

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And here you plug "your ability to love God" into your "free will".

Abaxvahl said:

since we can freely do what it is that a son does, which is to do what His Father does, and our Father is God when we are chosen and adopted through Christ Jesus, which is why He exhorts us in our freedom: "Therefore you be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect." Moreover He plainly says that all of this is impossible without Him saying "with man this is impossible but with God all things are possible."

But I will state again in "such bold letters" what I just said so that you will not lie (Proverbs 6:16-19, read it) and misrepresent my position due to your incessant desire to enslave everyone

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You are a slave, so you do not have a free will.

Abaxvahl said:

and everything to your manifestly false doctrine, ill-defined free will, and false double-minded dialectical tensions which do nothing but divide the soul from the spirit and man from His own life:

WE CAN NOT CHOOSE GOD OR TO WALK IN HIS WAYS. WE DO NOT CHOOSE CHRIST. GOD CHOOSES US. CHRIST CHOOSES US. NO ONE CAN COME TO THEM UNLESS HE FIRST DRAWS US TO HIMSELF. GOD CAUSES US TO WALK IN HIS WAYS, HIS WAYS WHICH ARE LOVE. WE DO NOT CAUSE THIS. WE DO NOT HAVE THE WILL TO DO THIS, WE LITERALLY CAN NOT DO IT, IT IS ABOVE US. ONLY WHEN WE HAVE BEEN CHOSEN AND APPOINTED BY GOD CAN WE PLEASE GOD BY WALKING IN HIS WAYS, FOR HE IS THE ONE WHO CAUSES US TO DO THIS. GOD IS THE ULTIMATE CAUSE OF ALL THINGS, THE FINAL AIM OF ALL THINGS, FOR HE WILL BE ALL-IN-ALL. WHEN WE ARE SET FREE TO WALK IN HIS WAYS (BY HIM) WE CAN DO SO.

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Here, as the third of three conjoined "here" points, you claim the free will to choose God, specifically, your purported ability to free will yourself to choose to love God.

Abaxvahl said:

THIS BEING SET FREE IS THE FREEDOM OF THE CHILDREN OF GOD. SINCE MAN HAS A WILL, IT IS PART OF THE SOUL, AS SHOWN BY SCRIPTURE, WHEN WE ARE SO SET FREE IN GOD TO DO WHAT GOD WILLS I CALL THIS A "FREE WILL," FOR WE, THE NEW CREATURE, ARE ACHIEVING OUR END, WHICH IS DOING GOD'S WILL. GOD SETS THIS END AND CAUSES US TO DO IT.

God bless. May the Lord Jesus Christ (who I follow, not whatever slave-driver you concocted and claim to follow) bless you and free you from this mad doctrine, just as He freed His children to walk in His ways and to be saved, His children who He chose and who did not choose Him.

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You have used "free" and "freely" and "freedom" and "free will" as nearly interchangeable, but they are not synonyms. In so doing, you exhibit confusion.

You claim you do not choose God, but then you go through great lengths to convey that you do choose God, even in your free-will, even to righteously love caused by your "personal agency" (from your writings).

You are profoundly confused, yet "God is not a God of confusion but of peace" (1 Corinthians 14:33).

Your heart's treasure manifests in your choice of God which is the precepts of men leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9), and, in effect, you call Jesus a deceiving spirit.

The Word of God says there is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) - Jesus, being God (John 20:28), did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8, Psalm 3:8)!

Since you cannot choose Jesus, but you claim to choose Jesus at some level, then you chose an idol of your own making.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbiddenl for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Post 3 of 3

BARNEY BRIGHT said:

At John 8:56-58 it says, “Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.”

On this expression a comment is made in the Abbé Drioux edition of the Holy Bible which translates John 8:58 as, “Before Abraham was, I am, in fact God eternal, before Abraham was born.” In a footnote in his Bible translation Monsignor Ronald A. Knox says regarding the expression, "I AM" at John 8:58 he says, "here our Lord seems explicitly to claim a Divine title and then tells readers to compare Exodus 3:14.” and when you turn to Exodus 3:14 it reads, “God said to Moses: I AM WHO AM. He said: Thus shalt thou say to the children of Israel: HE WHO IS, hath sent me to you.” But the King James Version reads this scripture this way: “And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.”

The expression “I AM” is there used as a title or a name, and in the Hebrew this expression is the one word, "Ehyéh (אהיה)." At Exodus 3:14 Jehovah God was there speaking to Moses and sending him to the children of Israel. Well, was Jesus claiming to be Jehovah God at John 8:58? Not according to many modern Bible translators, as the following quotations will prove:
Moffatt translation says at John 8:58, “I have existed before Abraham was born.”
Schonfield which is An American Translation reads, “I existed before Abraham was born.”
Stage a German translation says, “Before Abraham came to be, I was.”
Pfaefflin another German translation says, “Before there was an Abraham, I was already there!”
George M. Lamsa, translating from the Syriac Peshitta, says, “Before Abraham was born, I was.”
Dr. James Murdock, also translating from the Syriac Peshitto Version, says, “Before Abraham existed, I was.”
The Brazilian Sacred Bible published by the Catholic Bible Center of São Paulo says, “Before Abraham existed, I was existing.” None of these translations translates John 8:58 as if Jesus was saying he was the only True God here by saying he was the "I AM."

Also, when Jesus spoke to those Jews, he spoke to them in the Hebrew of his day, not in Greek. So how Jesus said, John 8:58 to the Jews is therefore presented to us in modern Hebrew translations, a couple of these modern translations by Hebrew scholars translated John 8:58 as follows:
Dr. Franz Delitzsch: “Before Abraham was, I have been.”
Isaac Salkinson and David Ginsburg says, “I have been when there had as yet been no Abraham.”
In both of these Hebrew translations the translators are using the expression “I have been” these two Hebrew words which are both a pronoun and a verb are, "aní hayíthi;" they do not use the one Hebrew word, "Ehyéh." So they do not make out that at John 8:58 Jesus was trying to imitate Jehovah God and give us the impression that he himself was Jehovah, the I AM.

Now we know that the Apostle John wrote his gospel in the Greek language, and here at John 8:58 the
Controversial expression is, "Egó eimí."
Now this expression without any introductory material ahead of it, means, "I AM." Well here at John 8:58 is there introductory material ahead of the expression, "Egó eimí," yes, this also true at John 8:24,28 where the expression, "Egó eimí" is translated, "I am he" not as, "I AM." So why isn't John 8:58 translated as, "I am he" since John 8:58 has introductory material ahead of the expression, "Egó eimí" just as John 8:24, 28 does. I mean I would understand the expression, "Egó eimí" being translated, "I AM" if the expression, "Egó eimí" stood alone without any introductory material ahead of it, but that's not the case.
The context shows that Jesus was talking about the fact he was older than Abraham that he was in existence long before Abraham was born. That's all that Jesus was saying, Jesus wasn't saying he was God, so he wasn't trying to use the expression, "Egó eimí" to imitate what God had inspired to be written down at Exodus 3:14.
Trinitarians want to give us the idea that Jesus was not simply referring to his existence but also giving himself a title that belongs to Jehovah God, in imitation of Exodus 3:14.

As I said before when writing John 8:58 the apostle was not quoting from the Greek Septuagint Version, a translation of the Hebrew Scriptures made by Greek-speaking Jews of Alexandria, Egypt, before the birth of Christ, and I said let anyone who reads Greek compare John 8:58 in Greek and Exodus 3:14 in the Greek
Septuagint, and he will find that the Septuagint reading of Exodus 3:14 does not use the expression, "Egó eimí" for God’s name, that doesn't mean that the words, Egó eimí are not there, I said that the expression Egó eimí wasn't used for God's name. When God says to Moses: “I AM hath sent me unto you.” The Greek Septuagint uses the expression ho Ōn, which means “The Being,” or, “The One who is.” This fact is clearly presented to us in Bagster’s translation of the Greek Septuagint, at Exodus 3:14 which reads: “And God spoke to Moses, saying, I am THE BEING [ho Ōn]; and he said, Thus shall ye say to the children of Israel, THE BEING [ho Ōn] has sent me to you.” Thus this comparison of the two Greek texts, that of the Septuagint and that of John 8:58, removes all basis for trinitarians to argue that Jesus, in John 8:58, was trying to fit Exodus 3:14 to himself, as if he was Jehovah God.
The expression, "Egó eimí ho Ōn" isn't what's used at John 8:58 only the expression, "Egó eimí" is, so if Jesus was telling us that he was the True God who spoke to Moses at Exodus 3:14 which uses the expression, "Egó eimí
hoŌn," not, "Egó eimí" by itself, why didn't Jesus use the whole expression?

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Lord Jesus says "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58).

Jesus says I AM, and He did not say "I was created".

So, one week before Abraham was born Jesus' words of I AM ring true.

And, two weeks before Abraham was born Jesus' words of I AM resound true.

And, three weeks before Abraham was born Jesus' words of I AM are true.

And, the minute prior to the minute any of all the angels were created Jesus' words of I AM trumpet true.

No matter how many weeks going back in time before Abraham was born Jesus' words of I AM remain absolutely true; therefore, Jesus declares Himself God with reference to I AM (Exodus 3:14).

Going back in time, Jesus is always I AM, never created, He is always I AM.

Going back in time, anytime in all eternity because Jesus says "before Abraham" with no exceptions, Jesus Being.

Going back in time, Jesus Being.

Jesus is I AM, that is God, so His words ring true for you that "unless you believe that I AM, you will die in your sins" (John 8:24).

This post ties with the prior post God had me make to you about "I"/"Ego" and "am"/"eimi" in both Exodus 3:14 and John 8:58.

The Apostle Thomas testified that Lord Jesus Christ is God when he said "My Lord and my God" (John 20:28).

Again, Lord Jesus is I AM (John 8:58, Exodus 3:14), that is God (John 20:28), so His words ring true for you that "unless you believe that I AM, you will die in your sins" (John 8:24).

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbiddenl for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

God bless you @QuickFilly,

Your earlier visit to this thread was a blessing from God for you answered "no" to "Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?", not to mention the post you made about predetermination.

It is astounding the broad number of people (Matthew 7:13) professing to believe the Word of God who turn around and add to the Word of God in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24).

Basically, such self-willed persons (2 Peter 2:9-10) demonstrate that the treasure of their heart is unbelief (Matthew 15:18) because they hold that without their words adulterating the Word of God then the Word of God is wrong, that is without their precepts of men (Matthew 15:9) the Word of God Is a lie.

Nonetheless, as you agreed, Adam was not imparted free will just as the original post shows richly in scripture, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Abaxvahl said:

The third item, that we can of our own will choose towards God, is that which I deny. So you deny it and I also deny it. How is what you said to me accurate? I am not a Pelagian for it would be ridiculous and stupid to think that I chose God when God said to us "I choose you while you were yet sinners" and "no one comes to me except I choose him, you didn't choose me" all over Scripture.

I see you also have neglected to contemplate the definition of free will I provided, which denies the third item also. What do you think of the first two?

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What I think is not the point, rather the Word of God is the point.

Now, in the most recent post series that God had me make to you (see post #974), it is evident from your writings that you claim "personal agency" to do good works such as (1) you choosing to love others and (2) you choosing to love the Lord.

Lord Jesus says "apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5).

A person converted by the Holy Spirit of God (John 3:3-8, Matthew 18:3) results in the convert's "will" being bound by God to God such that good works, fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23) which includes love, is manifest as having been wrought in God (John 3:21).

You convey that a convert has a "free will" to choose to love Jesus, that is a convert autonomously "wills" choosing to do a good work apart from God, yet the Apostle Paul wrote that a convert's will and convert's work is the work of God inside of converts with "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for [His] good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13).

A convert cannot choose to love Jesus because the Word of God says there is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

Fruit of the Holy Spirit of God in converts is the blessedly glorious act of God, but you self-willedly steal God's fruit of the Spirit to glorify yourself in your "personal agency" (2 Peter 2:9-10).

Your impure free-willian word has man choosing Jesus which places you in rejection of the Word of God which is an eternally destructive place to be (John 12:48) apart from receiving the pure Word of God (John 15:5, 1 Peter 2:2)

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbiddenl for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Ronald Nolette said:

Wow! you are so narrow minded, I bet you can't even shove a piece of rice in your mouth you are so narrow!

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When I eat rice, I give thanks to God (1 Thessalonians 5:18).

Ronald Nolette said:

But so be it. I am through discussing with one who has no mind of His own and can't even resch rfeal conclusions based on what God revealed. The bible does not give you permission to drive a car! So you better not! Automobile is not even found in the bible!

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Jesus and the Apostles traveled by various forms of travel (Matthew 12:1, John 12:14), so a person traveling by car is a form of travel therefore it's scriptural.

Ronald Nolette said:

YOu know th etruth that Adam chose but refuse tro accept it for whatever foolish reason you have concocted.

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God reveals the Truth (John 14:6) to me, and I proclaim the Truth to you.

OLD TESTAMENT ILLUMINATES THE SPECIFIC CAUSE OF ADAM EATING OF THE TREE FORBIDDEN AS FOOD

The Word of God says "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'" (Genesis 3:17), so God literally states the CAUSE for Adam eating of the tree forbidden as food was that Adam listened to the voice of his wife (Genesis 3:17).

You convey your heart's treasure of "because you have chosen to listen to the voice of your wife, and have free-willingly eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'"" (Ronald Nolette's word).

You preach that the Word of God is not enough without your thoughts. Your type of thinking is just like the people during Jeremiah's time (Jeremiah 5:30-31, Jeremiah 23:1-2, Jeremiah 50:6).

The thoughts of your heart are "the precepts of men" which is worship in vain (Matthew 15:9), and your adding to the Word of God proves you to be a liar (Proverbs 30:6).

NEW TESTAMENT ILLUMINATES ADAM ATE NOT WILLINGLY

The Apostle Paul conveyed that Adam did not willingly eat of the tree forbidden as food subjecting creation to futility for Paul wrote "the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly" ... "until now" (Romans 8:20-22), as this post in this thread shows.

You convey your heart's treasure of "the creation was subjected to futility free willingly" (Ronald Nolette's contrivance).

You preach the opposite of Paul.

When you preach your heart's treasure, you do not receive the Truth.

Ronald Nolette said:

But have the last word, I will Amen but it is time to move on!

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Jesus is the pure Word of God (John 1:14, 1 Peter 2:2).

When you inject your word into the Word of God, you self-willedly produce impure word (2 Peter 2:9-10).

@Ronald Nolette your unholy thoughts are exposed.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbiddenl for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.