Christians are not under the New Covenant

Moriah's Song said:

How is helping a whole lot of people with his Bible Study notes if his notes are not Biblicaly sound? Example: Not one person can find a verse in the New Testament that clearly says the "sacrifices will be reinstated" nor a direct "mandate from God to build Him a fourth temple"

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Still waiting for those verses from the NT.

There only 2 verses in Revelations that use the word "sacrifices" and they are definitely not verification for reinstating sacrifices to Jesus Christ that's for sure....

farouk said:

This is about our Great High Priest in heaven, as verse 24 says.

The OT sacrifices were not in heaven.

Nor is the Lord's Supper, which is 'till He come' (1 Corinthians 11.26).

After the Rapture of the church, any pilgrim saints not in heaven yet will look back to the Cross.

It is admittedly hard for those who simply do not distinguish between Jews and the church of God (1 Corinthians 10.32) to see this.

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no to rapture
It refers to the second coming

farouk said:

It is admittedly hard for those who simply do not distinguish between Jews and the church of God (1 Corinthians 10.32) to see this.

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Why should anyone distinguish between Jews and the church of God if God's word forbids it in many places - even in 1 Corinthians 10:32?

First we should compare the parallel verses of 1:22-24 with 1 Corinthians 10:32 because Chapter 10 makes Chapter 1 much more clearer as to what Paul really is saying. Chapter 10 is more about "offending" unsaved Jews and Gentiles, whereas Chapter 1 is more about comparing "unbelievers" who are not in the church of God vs. "believers" who are in the church of God.

1 Corinthians 1:22-24 and what Paul is saying in these verses:



1 Corinthians 10:31-32 and what Paul is saying in these verses that include Chapter 11a:



Lastly, what does 10:32 not mean? It does NOT mean that Paul is separating the so-called "Gentile church" into a different group of people that excludes Jews at all because the "church" included both as in Ephesians 2 and Galatians 3:26-29...

Gal 4 Jews of the bond woman old covenant
Christians of the free the new covenant
Holy mother church the new covenant

theefaith said:

Holy mother church the new covenant

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I take it to mean that Mary is the head of the church?

Is that correct in your view of the universal church of God?

Moriah's Song said:

I take it to mean that Mary is the head of the church?

Is that correct in your view of the universal church of God?

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no Jesus Christ is the head of the church
The body of Christ

Moriah's Song said:

I take it to mean that Mary is the head of the church?

Is that correct in your view of the universal church of God?

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holy mother church gal 4:26

theefaith said:

holy mother church gal 4:26

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Paul here means the kingdom of Christ, partially realized in the Christian church, but to be fully realized only at the second coming of the Lord ---- not referring specifically to the Roman Catholic church. Right?

I only asked this to be certain of what you posted because the RCC uses that term "holy mother church" in reference to Mary.

Moriah's Song said:

Paul here means the kingdom of Christ, partially realized in the Christian church, but to be fully realized only at the second coming of the Lord ---- not referring specifically to the Roman Catholic church. Right?

I only asked this to be certain of what you posted because the RCC uses that term "holy mother church" in reference to Mary.

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The 'mothers' in Galatians 4:22-31 are, figuratively speaking, the old and New Covenants, not Mary. Even if the New Covenant mother was not figurative, but literal, it would be Sarah, not Mary. For that's what the text says.

The New Covenant was ushered in with the death of the testator (Jesus).

If you think it hasn't come yet, what exactly would usher it in?

Moriah's Song said:

Paul here means the kingdom of Christ, partially realized in the Christian church, but to be fully realized only at the second coming of the Lord ---- not referring specifically to the Roman Catholic church. Right?

I only asked this to be certain of what you posted because the RCC uses that term "holy mother church" in reference to Mary.

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not in reference to Mary

there is only one church all else are sects by the tradition of men

only Christ has authority to found the church on Peter and the apostles Matt 16:18-19

theefaith said:

holy mother church gal 4:26

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I don't know what Bible you have that says "holy mother church" but out of 46 Bibles that I researched not ONE used the word "holy mother church." That is a Roman Catholic church figure of speech and should not be used anyway because it is adding to God's Word what is not in the Greek Septuagint.

Moriah's Song said:

I don't know what Bible you have that says "holy mother church" but out of 46 Bibles that I researched not ONE used the word "holy mother church." That is a Roman Catholic church figure of speech and should not be used anyway because it is adding to God's Word what is not in the Greek Septuagint.

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good grief Charlie Brown!

gal 4 (KJV)

24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

so we are talking about covenants
The free represents the new covenant church

26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

the Jerusalem which is above from heaven must be Holy!
And is our mother!

put it all together

Holy Mother Church!

theefaith said:

the Jerusalem which is above from heaven must be Holy!
And is our mother!

put it all together

Holy Mother Church!

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I understand what you mean by "mother + church" in connection with the New Jerusalem but those words are not in
Rev 21:2


Now we both agree that "the bride" means "the church" and "the holy city" is the "new Jerusalem" but there is no use of the word "mother" in that verse.

I think your intent is good and probably not even wrong to say but putting those words "together" does come off as your being Roman Catholic if that's ok with you but I would not want to be mistaken for being Catholic.

Interesting though is that the word "mother" is used only once in the book of Revelations. (KJV)

Mother Church?.

Moriah's Song said:

I understand what you mean by "mother + church" in connection with the New Jerusalem but those words are not in
Rev 21:2

"And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."​

Now we both agree that "the bride" means "the church" and "the holy city" is the "new Jerusalem" but there is no use of the word "mother" in that verse.

I think your intent is good and probably not even wrong to say but putting those words "together" does come off as your being Roman Catholic if that's ok with you but I would not want to be mistaken for being Catholic.

Interesting though is that the word "mother" is used only once in the book of Revelations. (KJV)

Rev 17:5 "And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH." That "mother" here is referring to the RCC in a negative sense according to this article . See the link below at...
​

Mother Church?.

​

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no that refers to the pagan Roman Empire that was conquered by Christ and His church!

Christ is King of Glory!

Dan 2: 44 And in the days of these kings (Roman Caesars) shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Isaiah 2:2
And it shall come to pass in the last days, (acts 2:17 last days began at Pentecost) that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

Micah 4:1
But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.

Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

Matthew 6:33
But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Matt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Matt 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, (Israel) and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. (The new covenant church) Jn 15:1-5

Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Jesus Christ is king!

We must submit and obey the king of kings!

And His authorized ministers that He Himself appointed!

Matt 16:18-19 & 28:28 eph 2:20 Jn 20:21-23

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

theefaith said:

good grief Charlie Brown!

gal 4 (KJV)

24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

so we are talking about covenants
The free represents the new covenant church

26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

the Jerusalem which is above from heaven must be Holy!
And is our mother!

put it all together

Holy Mother Church!

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People are really good at ruining analogies, lol.
He plainly tells us he's talking about covenants, not the church. The mother of us all is the New Covenant. The new Jerusalem is a metonymy for the New Covenant, just as the earthly Jerusalem is a metonymy for the old covenant. He plainly tells us this. The New Covenant, signified in the heavenly Jerusalem, births believers who are free children. Just as the old covenant, signified in the earthly city of Jerusalem, births children who are slaves and are in bondage.

Moriah's Song said:

Interesting though is that the word "mother" is used only once in the book of Revelations. (KJV)

Rev 17:5 "And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH."

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Yes, and we can see there in Revelation how 'mother' is also used to represent a city, the great city of Babylon (Revelation 17:18, Revelation 16:19), just as mother is used to represent cities in Galatians 4:25-26. Cities that represent systems. Systems of worship and relationship with God in Galatians 4:25-26, and the worldly system of commerce and adulterous indulgence in Revelation 18:3. To say the mother in Galatians 4:26 is the body of New Covenant believers itself is just plain wrong. It's a system of worship. Not the body of believers themselves as it is in another analogy.

Moriah's Song said:

That "mother" here is referring to the RCC in a negative sense according to this article . See the link below at...
Mother Church?.

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As much as I despise the false religiosity of the Catholic religious system, at this point I do not believe the great city - the mother of prostitutes - is the Catholic church system. I think the adulterous mother of harlots that sits on the nations of the world is the worldly system of trade and commerce and it's riches that intoxicates the inhabitants of the world. Unless it comes to light that the Catholic church has been secretly supporting and driving the economies of the world and the love of this world's goods I can't see that the Catholic church is the great city of Babylon that the whole world mourns the loss of when the anti-christ destroys it (Revelation 17:16). Revelation 18:9-19 just doesn't fit the description of the world mourning the loss of the Catholic church.

theefaith said:

Gal 4 Jews of the bond woman old covenant
Christians of the free the new covenant
Holy mother church the new covenant

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Jeremiah 31 the new covenant is still with the HOUSE of Israel and the HOUSE of Judah.

The church has no covenant. Gentiles are grafted in to the new covenant God has with Israel.

Ferris Bueller said:

People are really good at ruining analogies, lol.
He plainly tells us he's talking about covenants, not the church. The mother of us all is the New Covenant. The new Jerusalem is a metonymy for the New Covenant, just as the earthly Jerusalem is a metonymy for the old covenant. He plainly tells us this. The New Covenant, signified in the heavenly Jerusalem, births believers who are free children. Just as the old covenant, signified in the earthly city of Jerusalem, births children who are slaves and are in bondage.

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the new covenant is the church!

Curtis said:

Jeremiah 31 the new covenant is still with the HOUSE of Israel and the HOUSE of Judah.

The church has no covenant. Gentiles are grafted in to the new covenant God has with Israel.

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the church is the new Israel
Christ replaced david as king
The kingdom taken from Israel matt 21:43 given to the church Isa 22:21-22 matt 16:18-19
The church replaced Israel