Christians are not under the New Covenant

[Ferris Bueller]

pride MUST protest
Pride MUST be in rebellion

Pride is not needed to rebel against error. Honesty and integrity is.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You said trust in the blood of Jesus?

not in scripture

"25God presented Him as the atoning sacrificei through faith in His blood" Romans 3:25​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Then it's not a sign.
How can it be a sign of an inward grace that isn't inward yet?

Answer, @theefaith ?

 

[theefaith]

Your claim is 'faith and works' make a man righteous, and those works not being works of the law, but instead, works like love. You seem oblivious to the fact that love is the work of the law (Leviticus 19:18). So you are in fact saying a man is justified (made righteous) by faith and the works of the law. While Paul says a man is NOT made righteous by faith and works of the law. Paul says justification is by faith WITHOUT THE WORKS OF THE LAW.

Explain 1cor 13:2 “ALL FAITH” without charity avails nothing!
That’s Paul’s argument!

 

[theefaith]

"25God presented Him as the atoning sacrificei through faith in His blood" Romans 3:25​

Still not trust!

 

[theefaith]

Answer, @theefaith ?

the sacraments are outward signs of God’s inward grace!
The sacraments signify what they accomplish!

ez 36:25-27

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

A sacrament is an outward efficacious sign instituted by Christ to give grace. Jesus Christ himself is the sacrament, as he gave his life to save mankind. His humanity is the outward sign or the instrument of his Divinity. It is through his humanity that the life of the Trinity comes to us as grace through the sacraments. It is Jesus Christ alone who mediates the sacraments to allow grace to flow to mankind.

Christ sent the Holy Spirit at Pentecost to inspire his Apostles and his Church to shepherd his flock after his Ascension into heaven. "As the Father has sent me, even so I send you" (John 17:18, 20:21). Jesus is the Head of his Body the Church (Colossians 1:18). The Church itself is a sacrament instituted by Christ to give grace. Jesus gave us his Body the Church to continue the works he performed during his earthly life. Grace given to us through the sacraments will help us lead a good life in this world and help save us for the Kingdom of Heaven.

The sacraments were instituted by Christ! The Church celebrates in her liturgy the Paschal mystery of Christ, his Passion, Sacrifice on the Cross, Resurrection, and Glorious Ascension. The Greek word μυστήριον or mystery in the Greek New Testament is translated into sacramentum in the Latin Vulgate Bible, from which we derive our English word sacrament (examples: Ephesians 1:9, Ephesians 3:9, Colossians 1:27). The saving effects of Christ's Redemption on the Cross are communicated through the sacraments, especially in the liturgical celebration of the Eucharist.

The seven sacraments of Baptism, Confirmation or Chrismation, Holy Eucharist, Penance, the Anointing of the Sick, Holy Orders, and Matrimony. The three sacraments of Christian Initiation are Baptism, Chrismation or Confirmation, and the Eucharist. The two sacraments of Healing are Penance and the Anointing of the Sick, and the two sacraments of Vocation are Holy Orders and Marriage. Three sacraments, Baptism, Confirmation or Chrismation, and Holy Orders, are given once, as they render a permanent seal or character upon one's soul (2 Corinthians 1:21-22, Ephesians 4:30, Revelations 7:3).

The Gospel of Mark 5:25-34 describes a woman afflicted with hemorrhage who touched the cloak of Jesus and was immediately healed. There is a fourth century fresco painting in the catacomb of Sts. Marcellinus and Peter depicting this event, which serves as an apt symbol of Sacrament - the power that flows out from the body of Jesus, in order to effect both remission of sin and new life in Christ. The fresco image frames Part II of the Catechism of the Catholic Church on the Liturgy and the Sacraments, The Celebration of the Christian Mystery. St. Thomas Aquinas, in the Summa Theologica, has written the standard exposition on the Seven Sacraments.

Each sacrament consists of a visible external rite, which is composed of matter and form, the matter being the action, such as the pouring of water in baptism, and the form being the words spoken by the minister. Each sacramental rite confers a special ecclesial effect and sacramental grace appropriate for each sacrament. The sacraments occur at pivotal events and give meaning to a person's life.

The sacraments act ex opere operato, by the very fact of the action being performed, independent of the minister. The effect on the person receiving the sacrament is called ex opere operantis, and depends on the interior disposition of the receiver.

Grace is a favor, the free and undeserved gift from God through Christ Jesus, to help us respond to his call to become children of God, to become partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life. Our justification comes from the grace of God. Grace is a participation in the life of God and is necessary for salvation.

 

[theefaith]

Dogma an incontrovertible truth!

162. The Sacraments of the New Covenant contain the grace which they signify, and bestow it on
those who do not hinder it.
163 The sacraments work ex opera operato! (Simply by being done)
164. All the Sacraments of the New Covenant confer sanctifying grace on the receivers.
165. Three Sacraments, Baptism, Confirmation and Holy Orders, imprint a character, that is, an
indelible spiritual mark, and for this reason cannot be repeated.
166. The Sacramental Character is a spiritual mark imprinted on the soul.
167. The Sacramental Character continues at least until the death of its bearer.
168. All the Sacraments of the New Covenant were instituted by Jesus Christ.
169. There are Seven Sacraments of the New Law.
170. The Sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for the salvation of mankind.
171. For the valid dispensing of the Sacraments it is necessary that the minister accomplish the
Sacramental Sign in the proper manner.
172. The minister must further have the intention at least of doing what the Church does.
173. In the case of adult recipients moral worthiness is necessary for the worthy or fruitful reception of the Sacraments.

 

[Moriah's Song]

I think your intent is good and probably not even wrong to say but putting those words "together" does come off as your being Roman Catholic if that's ok with you but I would not want to be mistaken for being Catholic.

For those who misunderstood my dialogue with "theefaith" in post #444, I am not R-Catholic, have never been R-Catholic, and never will be R-Catholic.

I have nothing against Catholics themselves; it is the false doctrines of any denomination that creates "traditions" that are not scripturally supported. No church is perfect, including my own. But when it becomes obvious that ones church has so many glaring false beliefs being imposed on the congregation; it is time to look for another church.

 

[Moriah's Song]

The New Covenant of Jeremiah 31 is the same as in Luke 22; both are for spiritual Israel according to Hebrews 8.

Jer 31:27 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah with the seed of man [Jesus] and the seed of beast.​

The prophesy of promise:

Jer 31:31 ~ "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a New Covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah,​

Jesus enacted/fulfilled his promise of the New Covenant:

Luk 22:20 ~ And likewise the cup after supper, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood."​

Paul preached it as a crucial part of the gospel and absolutely considered the promise in Jeremiah 31:31 to have been fulfilled:

1Co 11:25 ~ "In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me."​

Heb 8:6-9 ~ But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry which is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion for a second [covenant]. For he finds fault with them when he says: "The days will come, says the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah; not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; for they did not continue in my covenant, and so I paid no heed to them, says the Lord.

 

[Moriah's Song]

god has made no covenant with Gentiles aka the church comprised of Jews and Gentiles.

Jeremiah 31 prophesies a New Covenant, which transforms us from within. The Old Covenant at Mt. Sinai was a difficult-to-obey law. God's chosen people, ancient Israel, broke that Old Covenant law and so they failed in many ways.

God punished that disobedient generation in the wilderness. They died before they could enter the promised land. Later, in Jeremiah’s day, the Lord allowed Israel to be conquered by Assyria and Judah to be vanquished by Babylon. The remnant of Jews survived there as a refugee community but Jeremiah prophesies that God will bring them back to the Holy Land and establish a New Covenant with them.

The New Covenant was to have an internal law written on their hearts by the work of the Holy Spirit. Jeremiah says it best:

“I will put my law within them, and I will write it upon their hearts” (Jer 31:33).​

The difference between Old [Mosaic] Covenant and the New Covenant is the way God interacts with us. Under the new law of love, the Holy Spirit comes to live within us and enables us by grace to live out God’s calling.

“The Spirit of truth” then dwells within us (John 14:17) and will guide us “into all the truth” (John 16:13). Jeremiah also says that everyone in God’s people will “know the Lord,” without distinctions of either Jews or Gentiles:

“There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus” (Gal 3:28).​

The New Covenant is prophesied in Jer 31:31. But the New Testament writers saw the fulfillment of Jeremiah’s prophecy in the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus and wrote of it....

• And likewise the cup after supper, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood." (Luk 22:20)
• In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me." (1 Cor 11:25)
• "...who has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not in a written code but in the Spirit; for the written code kills, but the Spirit gives life." (2 Cor 3:6)
• In speaking of a new covenant he treats the first as obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. (Heb 8:13)
• Therefore [Jesus] is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred which redeems them from the transgressions under the first [Mosaic] covenant. (Heb 9:15)
• "...and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks more graciously than the blood of Abel." (Heb 12:24)

The covenant is made in the blood of Christ. He is the “mediator” of the new covenant (Heb 12:24), the apostles are its ministers (2 Cor 3:6), and through it, we are not only redeemed but promised an eternal inheritance in the Promised Land, the New Jerusalem, Paradise restored. (Heb 9:15).

Denying that the New Covenant is for us; the Body of Christ, the church, is tantamount to denying the blood of Christ and the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit.

 

[theefaith]

For those who misunderstood my dialogue with "theefaith" in post #444, I am not R-Catholic, have never been R-Catholic, and never will be R-Catholic.

I have nothing against Catholics themselves; it is the false doctrines of any denomination that creates "traditions" that are not scripturally supported. No church is perfect, including my own. But when it becomes obvious that ones church has so many glaring false beliefs being imposed on the congregation; it is time to look for another church.

how do you know it’s false doctrine?

Why does it need to be in the scripture

what is the source of truth for Christians?
What is the rule of faith?
What is the pillar and ground of truth?

 

[Moriah's Song]

how do you know it’s false doctrine?

If it is not found in scripture, it is a false doctrine made up by human beings not inspipired by God. Some token of examples would be...

• the Alter Call
• praying for the dead
• praying to Mary
• the rapture (not the one at the end of the ages) (pre-mil, post mil, dispensationalism)
• JW's - the Word was a god
• a new temple in Jerusalem (dispensationalism)
• reinstating sacrifices in a literal millenium (dispensationalism)
• Christ will be on earth for 1,000 years (dispensationalism)
• the New Covenant is not now (dispensationalism)
• baptism saves you
• we are all "little gods" (Mormons)
• claiming Jesus was not God in the flesh (unitarian)
• following the denominations that were created by men such as Charles Taze Russell, John Nelson Darby, Ellen White,

 

[theefaith]

If it is not found in scripture, it is a false doctrine made up by human beings not inspipired by God. Some token of examples would be...

• the Alter Call
• praying for the dead
• praying to Mary
• the rapture (not the one at the end of the ages) (pre-mil, post mil, dispensationalism)
• JW's - the Word was a god
• a new temple in Jerusalem (dispensationalism)
• reinstating sacrifices in a literal millenium (dispensationalism)
• Christ will be on earth for 1,000 years (dispensationalism)
• the New Covenant is not now (dispensationalism)
• baptism saves you
• we are all "little gods" (Mormons)
• claiming Jesus was not God in the flesh (unitarian)
• following the denominations that were created by men such as Charles Taze Russell, John Nelson Darby, Ellen White,

where does scripture say the “Bible alone” is the source of truth, or the rule of faith?

matt 18:17 1 Tim 3:15

 

[theefaith]

If it is not found in scripture, it is a false doctrine made up by human beings not inspipired by God. Some token of examples would be...

• the Alter Call
• praying for the dead
• praying to Mary
• the rapture (not the one at the end of the ages) (pre-mil, post mil, dispensationalism)
• JW's - the Word was a god
• a new temple in Jerusalem (dispensationalism)
• reinstating sacrifices in a literal millenium (dispensationalism)
• Christ will be on earth for 1,000 years (dispensationalism)
• the New Covenant is not now (dispensationalism)
• baptism saves you
• we are all "little gods" (Mormons)
• claiming Jesus was not God in the flesh (unitarian)
• following the denominations that were created by men such as Charles Taze Russell, John Nelson Darby, Ellen White,

You forgot tent revival, camp meeting, Sunday school, holy communion on first Sunday as far as the NT goes!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Jeremiah 31 prophesies a New Covenant, which transforms us from within. The Old Covenant at Mt. Sinai was a difficult-to-obey law. God's chosen people, ancient Israel, broke that Old Covenant law and so they failed in many ways.

YOu think the commands to the church are easy? Do you always offer your other cheek if slapped in one? do you always love your enemies and bless your persecutors? These are impossible with out the holy spirit.

Jeremiah 31 prophesies a New Covenant, which transforms us from within. The Old Covenant at Mt. Sinai was a difficult-to-obey law. God's chosen people, ancient Israel, broke that Old Covenant law and so they failed in many ways.

God punished that disobedient generation in the wilderness. They died before they could enter the promised land. Later, in Jeremiah’s day, the Lord allowed Israel to be conquered by Assyria and Judah to be vanquished by Babylon. The remnant of Jews survived there as a refugee community but Jeremiah prophesies that God will bring them back to the Holy Land and establish a New Covenant with them.

The New Covenant was to have an internal law written on their hearts by the work of the Holy Spirit. Jeremiah says it best:

“I will put my law within them, and I will write it upon their hearts” (Jer 31:33).​

The difference between Old [Mosaic] Covenant and the New Covenant is the way God interacts with us. Under the new law of love, the Holy Spirit comes to live within us and enables us by grace to live out God’s calling.

“The Spirit of truth” then dwells within us (John 14:17) and will guide us “into all the truth” (John 16:13). Jeremiah also says that everyone in God’s people will “know the Lord,” without distinctions of either Jews or Gentiles:

“There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus” (Gal 3:28).​

The New Covenant is prophesied in Jer 31:31. But the New Testament writers saw the fulfillment of Jeremiah’s prophecy in the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus and wrote of it....

• And likewise the cup after supper, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood." (Luk 22:20)
• In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me." (1 Cor 11:25)
• "...who has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not in a written code but in the Spirit; for the written code kills, but the Spirit gives life." (2 Cor 3:6)
• In speaking of a new covenant he treats the first as obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. (Heb 8:13)
• Therefore [Jesus] is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred which redeems them from the transgressions under the first [Mosaic] covenant. (Heb 9:15)
• "...and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks more graciously than the blood of Abel." (Heb 12:24)

The covenant is made in the blood of Christ. He is the “mediator” of the new covenant (Heb 12:24), the apostles are its ministers (2 Cor 3:6), and through it, we are not only redeemed but promised an eternal inheritance in the Promised Land, the New Jerusalem, Paradise restored. (Heb 9:15).

Denying that the New Covenant is for us; the Body of Christ, the church, is tantamount to denying the blood of Christ and the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit.

But you forget that god makes the new covenant with the house of Israel and Judah! Not with the houses of Americans, French, German, Russians, Egyptians etc.etc.etc.etc.

YOu also use the word mediate ( for it is in Scripture) then deny its meaning. when one is a mediator, it means a covenant/contract/ agreement is being negotiated and has not gone into effect yet!

As for your last statement, that is nothing more than an arrogant lie! You think me unsaved? so be it! when I see you in heaven you will have already stood before the Lord and have had this lie burned up as wood hay and stubble.

It is nothing more than an empty boast.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

where does scripture say the “Bible alone” is the source of truth, or the rule of faith?

matt 18:17 1 Tim 3:15

Your use of these verses in erroneous. They are trying to repurpose those verses from what they are intended by God.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

• a new temple in Jerusalem (dispensationalism)

• reinstating sacrifices in a literal millenium (dispensationalism)

• Christ will be on earth for 1,000 years (dispensationalism)

• the New Covenant is not now (dispensationalism)

Sorry but all these are found in the Bible!

 

[Moriah's Song]

where does scripture say the “Bible alone” is the source of truth, or the rule of faith?

2Ti 3:14-17..."But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings which are able to instruct you for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work."​

We have all we need right in God's Word. When we read notes in the bottom of our "Study Bibles" those notes become facts to the unlearned when in truth those notes are almost always biased towards a certain dogma; it's in the minds of those who want to promote their ideas as in dispensationalism today. The unwary newcomer becomes indoctrinated and when a person believes something strongly, even if they are repeatedly told that it is not in the gospel, it is very hard for them to let go because pride stands in their way. People don't want to be told they are wrong about something they have been told by their parents, their best friends or even by the pastor who holds some of these false doctrines.

Rev 22:18 "I warn every one who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if any one adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book,"​

A person does not have to write a new Bible to add something one believes should be in the Bible - like saying the "New Covenant" is not for this present period of time." That is saying something that is a false idea of man about God's Word that clearly contradicts scripture. In essence, they are adding to God's word even though it is simply spoken by mouth to others.

 

[Moriah's Song]

Sorry but all these are found in the Bible!

Prove it with verses please.

 

[Moriah's Song]

But you forget that god makes the new covenant with the house of Israel and Judah!

Did you miss this post concerning the fulfillment of Jeremiah 31 in the NT New Covenant?

Moriah's Quote:
The New Covenant is prophesied in Jer 31:31. But the New Testament writers saw the fulfillment of Jeremiah’s prophecy in the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus and wrote of it....

• And likewise the cup after supper, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood." (Luk 22:20)
• In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me." (1 Cor 11:25)
• "...who has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not in a written code but in the Spirit; for the written code kills, but the Spirit gives life." (2 Cor 3:6)
• In speaking of a new covenant he treats the first as obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. (Heb 8:13)
• Therefore [Jesus] is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred which redeems them from the transgressions under the first [Mosaic] covenant. (Heb 9:15)
• "...and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks more graciously than the blood of Abel." (Heb 12:24)

The covenant is made in the blood of Christ. He is the “mediator” of the new covenant (Heb 12:24), the apostles are its ministers (2 Cor 3:6), and through it, we are not only redeemed but promised an eternal inheritance in the Promised Land, the New Jerusalem, Paradise restored. (Heb 9:15).

Denying that the New Covenant is for us; the Body of Christ, the church, is tantamount to denying the blood of Christ and the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit.