Christians are not under the New Covenant

[Ferris Bueller]

the new covenant is the church!

Lol, no.
The New Covenant is based on faith in Christ's blood. That is how you approach God to be in covenant with him in this Covenant.
In the old covenant you joined yourself in covenant with God through various sacrifices and ceremonies. Like what you Catholics are doing.

 

[theefaith]

Lol, no.
The New Covenant is based on faith in Christ's blood. That is how you approach God to be in covenant with him in this Covenant.
In the old covenant you joined yourself in covenant with God through various sacrifices and ceremonies. Like what you Catholics are doing.

no we are in covenant by the unity of faith and baptism

nowhere does it say

by faith alone we died with Christ
Or have orcsins washed away
Or entered the church
Or put on Christ

but by baptism

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

The water has zero power to cleanse away sin. Works have zero power to cleanse away sin. As it was for the tax collector in Luke 18:13-14, so it is for us - the faith of the person calling on the name of the Lord is the agent through which sin is forgiven and a person is made righteous in God's sight. You Catholics have turned water baptism into a work that makes a person righteous as a reward of debt owed. That is the very works gospel Paul warned us about.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Everyone is baptized into Christ via the Holy Spirit, not water. Water has no power to join you to the body of Christ. Only through the Spirit are we joined to the body of Christ. And that is exactly what these verses are saying - by one SPIRIT are we all baptized into one body.

 

[theefaith]

Gal 4 sat we are in the new and eternal covenant

 

[theefaith]

Sat should be says

sorry

 

[theefaith]

The water has zero power to cleanse away sin. Works have zero power to cleanse away sin. As it was for the tax collector in Luke 18:13-14, so it is for us - the faith of the person calling on the name of the Lord is the agent through which sin is forgiven and a person is made righteous in God's sight. You Catholics have turned water baptism into a work that makes a person righteous as a reward of debt owed. That is the very works gospel Paul warned us about.

the sacraments are outward signs of inward grace

it is grace that justifies
Grace that sanctifies
Grace that saves

Grace that is from the merits of Christ’s passion blood and death on the cross

without the outward sign commanded by Christ there can be no inward grace!!!

 

[theefaith]

Everyone is baptized into Christ via the Holy Spirit, not water. Water has no power to join you to the body of Christ. Only through the Spirit are we joined to the body of Christ. And that is exactly what these verses are saying - by one SPIRIT are we all baptized into one body.

see 467 below

can’t have the spirit without the outward sign commanded by Christ

 

[Ferris Bueller]

the sacraments are outward signs of inward grace
...
without the outward sign commanded by Christ there can be no inward grace!!!

First you said the sacraments are outward signs of inward grace.
Then you say there can be no inward grace without the outward sign of the sacrament.
That's a contradiction, lol.
How can the sacraments be the sign of the inward grace you say can't be there without the sacraments?

Which comes first, inward grace, or the sign of inward grace (the sacraments). Be careful not to give the Protestant answer to that, lol.

 

[theefaith]

First you said the sacraments are outward signs of inward grace.
Then you say there can be no inward grace without the outward sign of the sacrament.
That's a contradiction, lol.
How can the sacraments be the sign of the inward grace you say can't be there without the sacraments?

Which comes first, inward grace, or the sign of inward grace (the sacraments). Be careful not to give the Protestant answer to that, lol.

No contradiction

the outward sign first
And it signifies what it accomplishes such as baptism “washing” away sin

or holy communion signifies union

etc.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

the outward sign first

Then it's not a sign.
How can it be a sign of an inward grace that isn't inward yet?

 

[theefaith]

Then it's not a sign.
How can it be a sign of an inward grace that isn't inward yet?

Its a sign cos it can be seen!

Nowhere does it say;

Faith alone washes away sin
Or
We died with Christ in faith alone
Or
We are members of Christ and his church by faith alone
Or
Put on Christ by faith alone

right pal?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Nowhere does it say;

Faith alone washes away sin
Or
We died with Christ in faith alone
Or
We are members of Christ and his church by faith alone
Or
Put on Christ by faith alone

right pal?

Faith alone is James' argument and is addressing justification by works, not faith.
What you are referring to is Paul's argument addressing justification by faith which says...

"righteousness apart from works" Romans 4:6
​

Justification (being made righteous) occurs through faith all by itself apart from the debt owed for works completed, like circumcision, for example.

 

[theefaith]

[QUOTE=
You said trust in the blood of Jesus?

not in scripture

 

[keithr]

Its a sign cos it can be seen!

Nobody would perform the sign of being baptised if they hadn't first repented of their sins and believed that Jesus is our Lord and saviour, through whose sacrifice of his perfect human life our right to life has been purchased, and that we will be given eternal life if we remain faithful overcomers until our death (or change in the rapture).

Nowhere does it say;

Faith alone washes away sin

How about Galations 2:22-24 (WEB):

(22) But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
(23) Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed.
(24) So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith.​

 

[theefaith]

Then it's not a sign.
How can it be a sign of an inward grace that isn't inward yet?

pride MUST protest
Pride MUST be in rebellion

 

[theefaith]

Faith alone is James' argument and is addressing justification by works, not faith.
What you are referring to is Paul's argument addressing justification by faith which says...

"righteousness apart from works" Romans 4:6
​

Justification (being made righteous) occurs through faith all by itself apart from the debt owed for works completed, like circumcision, for example.

apart from works alone! Or works of the law

 

[theefaith]

Nobody would perform the sign of being baptised if they hadn't first repented of their sins and believed that Jesus is our Lord and saviour, through whose sacrifice of his perfect human life our right to life has been purchased, and that we will be given eternal life if we remain faithful overcomers until our death (or change in the rapture).

Infants have no sin so repentance is not required

and if it’s only faith then baptism would be meaningless opposing Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

How about Galations 2:22-24 (WEB):

(22) But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
(23) Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed.
(24) So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith.​

good believe Mk 16:16 matt 28:19

 

[theefaith]

Acts 2:38-39
God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!

Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

Born again! Born from above!

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by baptism!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

apart from works alone! Or works of the law

Your claim is 'faith and works' make a man righteous, and those works not being works of the law, but instead, works like love. You seem oblivious to the fact that love is the work of the law (Leviticus 19:18). So you are in fact saying a man is justified (made righteous) by faith and the works of the law. While Paul says a man is NOT made righteous by faith and works of the law. Paul says justification is by faith WITHOUT THE WORKS OF THE LAW.