Are you going to Heaven?

2ndRateMind said:

I'm not entirely sure I get your point, or it's relevance to my post. Perhaps you would care to elaborate, for my poor second rate mind?

Best wishes, 2RM.

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If you believe people notice, then what good is that if it is nothing but "outward appearance"....

Mat 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

Invisibilis said:

Romans 10:8-13 is true. But to read it as once declared and believed then that is final, regardless if you choose to go into denial and/or choose to no longer believe, what then?

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Philippians 1:6
Philippians 2:12-13
God’s arm is not short, and He can finish what He starts.

Invisibilis said:

Yes. I was wondering why some Christians feel entitled to go to heaven.

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Like many other false doctrines, the idea that going to Heaven came directly from the Mystery Religions of Babylon and was appropriated by the Catholic church. Her protesting daughter churches in turn, inherited many of the same heresies when the Reformers left the ecclesiastical authority of that church and started their own splinter groups. People have been conditioned to read that belief into the Bible, but the reality is that the Bible doesn't support this doctrine at all.

praise_yeshua said:

Paul detailed that he was in perils of false brethren..... if he couldn't tell.... then just who can really tell?

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Paul said he was in danger of false brothers because false converts were turning true converts against him and what he taught them by accusing him of being a false minister. Gal. 1 and 2 Cor. 12. are just a couple of examples where Paul had to defend himself and his calling against their accusations.

Romans, 2 Corinthians, Ephesians, Galatians, Colossians, Titus, and 2 Thessalonians were all written in part as direct responses to Simon Magus' followers causing problems in the Church with their pagan doctrines. Chief among these heresies were

- the trinity doctrine

- the teaching that God's laws are "Mosaic" or "Jewish" regulations that Christians were to cast aside under the New Covenant

- the doctrine that Heaven is the Christian's reward

- the doctrine that a person has an immortal soul inside them

These 4 doctrines were the most problematic of all the false doctrines that were spread by Simon Magus and his followers in Paul's day. Ironically enough, false converts are significantly easier to spot today because those doctrines are widely accepted by Catholics and Protestants.

praise_yeshua said:

If you believe people notice, then what good is that it is nothing but "outward appearance"....

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That doesn't follow at all, either from what I have posted thus far on this thread (1), or, indeed, logically (2).

1) Please quote me where I have said 'people notice'. I have confined so far those that notice any virtue I can claim to myself and God, and these are sufficient for me.
2) Various philosophers have defined what they think to be good in various ways, and pretty much none of them have settled on 'outward appearances' as the deciding factor. If you doubt this, try reading Socrates as reported by Plato, and Aristotle, (for virtue ethics) Kant, (for deontology) Bentham and JS Mill, (for utilitarianism) and anyone from the situation ethics school of thought.

I do think, however, good people notice and value goodness in others, while bad people tend to dismiss virtue as psychologically self-serving weakness.

Best wishes, 2RM

Invisibilis said:

Can anyone here claim they are going to heaven?

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Can anyone here claim they understand what heaven is?

devin553344 said:

Don't all people go to heaven to be judged. Then to their final destination?

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No. The judgment of the saved is evidently on earth.

Bob Estey said:

Can anyone here claim they understand what heaven is?

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The presence of God, who is half pain, half joy, total ecstasy.

Best wishes, 2RM.

Desire Of All Nations said:

Like many other false doctrines, the idea that going to Heaven came directly from the Mystery Religions of Babylon and was appropriated by the Catholic church...Chief among these heresies were...

- the doctrine that Heaven is the Christian's reward

- the doctrine that a person has an immortal soul inside them
...

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If there is an error about souls surviving the body, and the existence of heaven, even on the cross Jesus was subject to it:

And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.*

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So, is it your contention then, that Jesus was a heretic?

Best wishes, 2RM.

* Luke 23:43 KJV

Edward Rose said:

Yes as best it can be for a human. God is faithful and will finish the work He started in me.

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Hi @Edward Rose I am reminded of Philippians 1.6: "He that hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ".