ChristisGod
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Wrong again as all the fullness of Deity dwells in Christ just as it does God. See Colossians 1:19 and Colossians 2:9.
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A Curious Question For Non-Trinitarians
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@Rich R
You demonstrated a staggering level of linguistic errors, omissions, and/or misrepresentations as shown in the following links
You wickedly promote mere humans to being God while you evilly demote Jesus from being God (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #848 in this thread), and you deceptively try to confuse Jesus' special place as Immanuel, God with us (Matthew 1:23, Isaiah 7:14, Isaiah 9:6).
moreover
In your heart, you subtract the Apostle Thomas saying "my God" to Lord Jesus (John 20:28) in the context of Thomas' usage (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #870 in this thread), so you deny Apostolic testimony.
moreover
You desperately try to change the Word of God into "that they also may be one with us" in John 17:21-22, so you are making yourself out to be greater than the Word of God (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1003 in this thread), so you nullify the Word of God, Jesus (John 1:1, John 1:14) in your heart by exalting your thoughts above God's thoughts (Isaiah 55:8-9).
moreover
You foolishly claim the Greek "en" can mean "with", yet "en" truly means "in", and your foolishness targets your thoughts that Jesus does not mean "one" when Jesus says "one" both in John 10:30 and John 17:21-22 (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1213 in this thread), so you are under the delusion that. Jesus is not one with the Father despite Jesus truthfully declaring of the Father and Himself "We are One" (John 17:22). You are fixated on the temporal instead of the eternal.
moreover
By your writing, your illogic is illuminated, your linguistic foolishness abounds, and you expose your fleshly natural state of being (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1269 in this thread); consequently, (1) you deny the personification references of the Father as well as the Christ in scripture, (2) you deny the true meaning of "one" as shown near the pie example, (3) you deny Jesus' sayings of "We are One" (John 17:22) by adulterating His words with your limiting words from your heart, (4) you deny the Spiritual Truth (John 14:6) by imposing your temporal treasure on Jesus, (5) you change the language of Ephesians 1:4, and (6) you deny Jesus is God despite the testimony of scripture indicating that Jesus is God.
moreover
In a bout of linguistic foolishness, you preach that "I will be" is correct for Exodus 3:14 instead of "I AM" (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1280 in this thread); therefore, you convey that your heart's treasure is that God does change in direct contradiction to the Word of God saying "I, YHWH, do not change" (Malachi 3:6).
moreover
(1)You adulterate the Word of God recorded in Jeremiah 18:6-10 into the word of Rich R "if that nation against which I have spoken turns from its evil, I change" (2) in order to adulterate the Word of God "I, YHWH, do not change" (Malachi 3:6) into the word of Rich R "I, Jehovah, do not change except I will become for Israel" (3) which you extend to adulterate the Word of God "I AM Who I AM" (Exodus 3:14) into the word of Rich R "I will be who I will be" (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1331 in this thread), so you call the Word of God a LIE, in fact, your word leads you to not know who God is.
moreover
You show a repeated disrespect and dishonor and disregard for the God Most High by misspelling the sacred and Holy Name of God, YHWH, (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1287 in this thread) in at least 3 different posts; therefore, you publicly show just how little God means to you as well as your failure to understand God
You have a false god that you created based on your thoughts that you named Jesus, yet your false god is not the Jesus revealed in the Word of God.
The Truth (John 14:6) is that Jesus is God for the ever living Jesus proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58), so according to the Christ, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past which means He is uncreated thus He proclaims that He is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past (Isaiah 45:5).
Immanuel (Matthew 1:23 "God with us"), Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8).
You demonstrated a staggering level of linguistic errors, omissions, and/or misrepresentations as shown in the following links
You wickedly promote mere humans to being God while you evilly demote Jesus from being God (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #848 in this thread), and you deceptively try to confuse Jesus' special place as Immanuel, God with us (Matthew 1:23, Isaiah 7:14, Isaiah 9:6).
moreover
In your heart, you subtract the Apostle Thomas saying "my God" to Lord Jesus (John 20:28) in the context of Thomas' usage (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #870 in this thread), so you deny Apostolic testimony.
moreover
You desperately try to change the Word of God into "that they also may be one with us" in John 17:21-22, so you are making yourself out to be greater than the Word of God (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1003 in this thread), so you nullify the Word of God, Jesus (John 1:1, John 1:14) in your heart by exalting your thoughts above God's thoughts (Isaiah 55:8-9).
moreover
You foolishly claim the Greek "en" can mean "with", yet "en" truly means "in", and your foolishness targets your thoughts that Jesus does not mean "one" when Jesus says "one" both in John 10:30 and John 17:21-22 (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1213 in this thread), so you are under the delusion that. Jesus is not one with the Father despite Jesus truthfully declaring of the Father and Himself "We are One" (John 17:22). You are fixated on the temporal instead of the eternal.
moreover
By your writing, your illogic is illuminated, your linguistic foolishness abounds, and you expose your fleshly natural state of being (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1269 in this thread); consequently, (1) you deny the personification references of the Father as well as the Christ in scripture, (2) you deny the true meaning of "one" as shown near the pie example, (3) you deny Jesus' sayings of "We are One" (John 17:22) by adulterating His words with your limiting words from your heart, (4) you deny the Spiritual Truth (John 14:6) by imposing your temporal treasure on Jesus, (5) you change the language of Ephesians 1:4, and (6) you deny Jesus is God despite the testimony of scripture indicating that Jesus is God.
moreover
In a bout of linguistic foolishness, you preach that "I will be" is correct for Exodus 3:14 instead of "I AM" (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1280 in this thread); therefore, you convey that your heart's treasure is that God does change in direct contradiction to the Word of God saying "I, YHWH, do not change" (Malachi 3:6).
moreover
(1)You adulterate the Word of God recorded in Jeremiah 18:6-10 into the word of Rich R "if that nation against which I have spoken turns from its evil, I change" (2) in order to adulterate the Word of God "I, YHWH, do not change" (Malachi 3:6) into the word of Rich R "I, Jehovah, do not change except I will become for Israel" (3) which you extend to adulterate the Word of God "I AM Who I AM" (Exodus 3:14) into the word of Rich R "I will be who I will be" (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1331 in this thread), so you call the Word of God a LIE, in fact, your word leads you to not know who God is.
moreover
You show a repeated disrespect and dishonor and disregard for the God Most High by misspelling the sacred and Holy Name of God, YHWH, (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1287 in this thread) in at least 3 different posts; therefore, you publicly show just how little God means to you as well as your failure to understand God
You have a false god that you created based on your thoughts that you named Jesus, yet your false god is not the Jesus revealed in the Word of God.
The Truth (John 14:6) is that Jesus is God for the ever living Jesus proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58), so according to the Christ, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past which means He is uncreated thus He proclaims that He is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past (Isaiah 45:5).
Immanuel (Matthew 1:23 "God with us"), Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8).
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
What you wrote does not answer my question in the least little bit!
Appeal to Dualism (Hypostatic Union - nowhere in Scripture, which is why you have to artificially synthesize many verses together; it's not in a verse). Jesus has only one nature according to Scripture, man. John 1:1 does not even refer to Jesus or assert he is God (but I know trinitarians wish it did). See John 20:31.
Indeed. Next illogical assertion. Talking to you is like talking to a recorded message. There is no profit in it. Next.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Anti-Scriptural. IF Jesus had 2 natures, it doesn't explain why this man-God has a God - who is the only true God.
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
No. Only the nature of God. If you read Deut 18:15-18, you will see God's words, not God, was put into a man among the people (God's word put in flesh).
Sad that you must resort to just imposing your doctrine onto vague text while ignoring explicit text. YHWH alone is God, and Yeshua is his chosen servant. Jesus' God is the only true God and that is what Jesus explicitly said.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
You said we ought not ignore explicit texts, so how about focusing on those texts which declare, even from the Father's own lips, the Sonship of Jesus? A Sonship of the highest order. Not one of creation, not one of adoption, but a Son in the highest sense, a Son as you say, chosen, as Creator, Redeemer, Savior, Lord, and King.
By wisdom the world knew not God. Their estimation of the divine character, their imperfect knowledge of His attributes, did not enlarge and expand their mental conception. Their minds were not ennobled in conformity to the divine will, but they plunged into the grossest idolatry. "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things" (Romans 1:22, 23). This is the worth of all requirements and knowledge apart from Christ.
"I am the way, the truth, and the life," Christ declares: "no man cometh unto the Father, but by me" (John 14:6). Christ is invested with power to give life to all creatures. "As the living Father hath sent me," He says, "and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me." "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (John 6:57, 63). Christ is not here referring to His doctrine, but to His person, the divinity of His character. "Verily, verily, I say unto you," He says again, "The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; and hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man" (John 5:25-27).
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
There is no such verse. If there were, you would have already referenced it.
Not here, Jesus does not say he is God incarnate or ever teach the trinity. Instead, this sentence juxtaposes Jesus with another being, our Father, the only being explicitly and repeatedly identified in Scripture as God, whose name is YHWH, not Sonship.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
KJV Luke 3:22
22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.
KJV Mark 9:7
7 And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
Click on the link for that scripture there in your post and see that no one is running from a scripture that you misinterpret.
Remember that Greek phrasing is a bit different to English.
"Simon Πέτρος Peter δοῦλος slave καὶ and ἀπόστολος apostle Ἰησοῦ of Jesus Χριστοῦ Christ τοῖς to the (ones) ἰσότιμον equally precious ἡμῖν to us λαχοῦσιν having obtained (by lot) πίστιν faith ἐν in δικαιοσύνῃ righteousness τοῦ of the θεοῦ God ἡμῶν of us καὶ and σωτῆρος of Savior Ἰησοῦ Jesus Χριστοῦ· Christ". (Greek Interlinear)
or...
"Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained a like precious faith with us in the righteousness of our God and the Saviour Jesus Christ". (ASV)
This is speaking about "God AND the Saviour Jesus Christ. Two separate entities. Where is the third person?
Again...click on the link
"And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life." (ASV)
Who is the subject being spoken about? The son of God came to give us understanding so that we may know his Father.....and the elect are "in" him just as he is "in" his Father.....that means being in complete unity with them both. It is his Father who is "the true God and eternal life". (John 17:3) Again, where is the third and supposedly equal "person"?
You fail to understand that the Bible was never written with a trinity in mind...when the scriptures were written trinities only existed in paganism.
The Abrahamic faiths shunned the concept because the God of Abraham was ONE, not three. (Deuteronomy 6:4)
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
I must have not been clear. There is no doubt from Scripture that Jesus is the Son of God. The point was about the ‘son ship. I took that term to be synonymous with God head. Was that incorrect?
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
There is a unity between Father and Son (John 17:21-23) which is evident as you well know. That unity pre-existed creation, as scripture attests to. A unity encapsulated also in 1 Cor.8:6. A relationship wherein divinity and deity is shared. This must be so, for if the Son came from any source other than His own Father, then what? If He was from a some demi-god from Kolob, then we would possibly be wanting to be Mormons right? And Jesus would then be called a demi-god, and a Kolobian. But He came from God the Father, sharing the Father's divine attributes, by natural right and inheritance, thus making Him worthy of worship, worthy to be called God...His Father's title and name.
Jesus, like all other living beings, only had one nature at a time. He was a spirit being, the only begotten Son of God, but he was mortal (he could die, whereas God is immortal [1 Timothy 6:16] and cannot die). Then God changed Jesus' nature to be human, and human only. When God resurrected Jesus from death He gave him the divine, immortal spirit nature, similar to His own nature. We will receive a similar immortal spirit nature when we are resurrected - 2 Peter 1:2-4 (WEB):
(2) Grace to you and peace be multiplied in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord,
(3) seeing that his divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and virtue;
(4) by which he has granted to us his precious and exceedingly great promises; that through these you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world by lust.
2 Timothy 1:10 (WEB):(3) seeing that his divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and virtue;
(4) by which he has granted to us his precious and exceedingly great promises; that through these you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world by lust.
(10) but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who abolished death, and brought life and immortality to light through the Good News.
When Jesus was a man, he was a man only. Philippians 2:8 (WEB):
(8) And being found in human form, he humbled himself, becoming obedient to the point of death, yes, the death of the cross.
That is why he prayed to God, John 17:5 (WEB):
(5) Now, Father, glorify me with your own self with the glory which I had with you before the world existed.
He was praying for God to restore him back to the glorious nature that he had previously had. However, God did more than that, He rewarded Jesus by giving him the immortal divine nature. Hence Jesus said, Revelation 1:18 (WEB):
(18) ... I was dead, and behold, I am alive forever and ever. Amen. I have the keys of Death and of Hades.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Wow, man, you just disagree with the very Word of God (John 1:1, John 1:14)!
The Word of God, the Christ, declares without limitation nor exception "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM" (John 8:58).
APAK, @tigger 2, @XFire and @Wrangler (you latter 3 by your APAK post agreement ikes) - no other scripture records a man making this awesome declaration to everlasting existence in prior time along with the words "ego eimi" (I AM) - Jesus alone makes such declaration.
Jesus made an exceptional declaration with "ego eimi" (I AM) because he expresses His everlasting existence In time past, and Only God exists everlastingly in time past.
The "ego eimi" (I AM) in John 8:58 and Exodus 3:14 are Spiritually intertwined by the Christ as clearly shown in the post to which you replied, but you deny the Truth (John 14:6).
No Christian denies the sayings of Christ, yet you have denied the sayings of Christ.
The Truth (John 14:6) is that Jesus is God for the ever living Jesus proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58), so according to the Christ, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past which means He is uncreated thus He proclaims that He is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past (Isaiah 45:5).
Immanuel (Matthew 1:23 "God with us"), Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8).
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@XFire
You have demonstrated your purpose misfires here, as shown in:
In a bout of disbelief, you preach that Jesus is not everlasting in direct rejection of Christ's saying "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM" (John 8:58) (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1343 in this thread), yet a Christian does not reject Christ's sayings.
in another instance
Truly, the Maker revealed in John 1:3 is the same Maker revealed in Isaiah 45:11-12, thus Jesus the Maker is "YHWH, the Holy One of Israel, and" mankind's "Maker" (Isaiah 45:11)! Praise be to the Holy One of Israel!!! (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1389 in this thread), yet in your heart, you hold to the wicked thoughts that Jesus was made.
Your heart is a wickedly unreliable source.
You have demonstrated your purpose misfires here, as shown in:
In a bout of disbelief, you preach that Jesus is not everlasting in direct rejection of Christ's saying "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM" (John 8:58) (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1343 in this thread), yet a Christian does not reject Christ's sayings.
in another instance
Truly, the Maker revealed in John 1:3 is the same Maker revealed in Isaiah 45:11-12, thus Jesus the Maker is "YHWH, the Holy One of Israel, and" mankind's "Maker" (Isaiah 45:11)! Praise be to the Holy One of Israel!!! (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1389 in this thread), yet in your heart, you hold to the wicked thoughts that Jesus was made.
Your heart is a wickedly unreliable source.
The old debunked and worn out and evil Watchtower Society Exodus 3:14 delusion is presented by you. You people do not understand Hebrew, then you deceive each other and you deceive yourself (2 Timothy 3:13).
The Hebrew word אֶֽהְיֶ֑ה (eyheh, am, Strong's 1961) is an imperfect verb, and this word is translated "I AM" in Exodus 3:14 (the "I" occurs because eyheh is singular in Hebrew).
A perfect verb is a word that conveys a completed action; in other words, an action that occurred in the past.
An imperfect verb is a word that conveys an incomplete action; in other words, an action occurs past into present, present, and/or future.
With the imperfect verb eyheh being used for the Name of the One who is and who was and who is to come, then we use I AM for eyheh in English because YHWH God is I AM in the past and YHWH God is I AM in the present and YHWH God is I AM in the future.
You're contrivance of eyheh being "I will be" indicates that you think that YHWH God will become YHWH God at some time in the future after YHWH God speaks to Moses at the burning bush.
In other words, you think that YHWH God has to be created! This is according to your words of "I will be" for eyheh.
See where your contrivance leads.
"I AM Who I AM" is the accurate translation for Exodus 3:14 of the Hebrew TaNaKh - the Hebrew Bible, and here is the full of Exodus 3:14:
God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM"; and He said, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'" God, furthermore, said to Moses, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, 'The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is My memorial-name to all generations." (Exodus 3:14-15).
All three of the phrases "I AM" in Exodus 3:14 are eyheh; therefore, the Word of God assigns the name "I AM" to YHWH God.
Now look at these other TaNaKh scriptures which use ehyeh and see how "I am" is the accurate translation:
YHWH speaks: "I am with you" (Genesis 26:3, YLT)
YHWH speaks: "I am with you" (Genesis 31:3, YLT)
YHWH speaks: "I am with you" (Exodus 3:12, YLT)
YHWH speaks: "I am with your mouth" (Exodus 4:12, YLT)
YHWH speaks: "I am with your mouth" (Exodus 4:15, YLT)
YHWH speaks: "I am with you" (Deuteronomy 31:23, YLT)
Truthfully (John 14:6), the declaration by YHWH God "I AM Who I AM" (Exodus 3:14) is directly referred to by Jesus in "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58) such that Jesus declares Himself to be YHWH God.
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