I'm starting to move away from "pretend Christianity"

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Ritajanice

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I hear that from anyone who posts on the internet.

"Born again" from a biblical point of view has a lot of meaning to me...
Does it, what does Born Again mean to you?

Can you explain what it means to be “ Born Of The Spirit “?

I don’t think so, only God knows how he “ supernaturally “ makes our spirit Born Again...we are Born Again of imperishable/ incorruptible seed?
but when people say it online it seems like they want to play with something as serious as that.

Those who call themselves "born again" on the Internet often talk a lot of nonsense also. It even seems like they've programmed online AI's to say that, and it makes me feel nauseous just thinking about it.
“ Born Again “ is a supernatural event, that only God can do, via his Holy Spirit, ...play with being Born Again, ?

What they say may sound like nonsense to you, when I was a “ new babe” I hadn’t a clue what Born Agains were talking about, we learn to understand God’s word, we can only do that if we are Born Again, we are Gods children therefore we start our journey learning from the Holy Spirit, as it’s our spirit that has been Born Of The Spirit, takes time to understand God’s word...

Maybe those who don’t make sense to you or me are more mature in the Spirit than we are....we don’t automatically mature or understand God’s word overnight.....it can and does take years .....we go from being in the flesh/ darkness and sin to suddenly being Born Again, that’s a shock in itself.....this is my opinion and belief, which is as valid as anyone else’s testimony....no one can prove who are Born Again....quoting scripture doesn’t mean one is Born Again either imo, so many on here interpret Gods word so very differently....

Only GOD knows who are HIS!...
 
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Ritajanice

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the problem with mos folks is they dont even care who their pastor hangs out with , endorses
supports and etc .
AND YET if them so called leaders HAD THE HOLY GHOST
how come they had NO CONVICTION about hanging around and or endorsing well known false ones .
THAT BE A FAT RED FLAG that something is dead wrong in such a leader who does that .
WHERE IS THE DISCERNEMNT . exactly . AND WHY the huge push for unity with just anyone and everyone
who no matter what hog wash they taught . THIS IS A BAD SIGN DUDE .
real bad . A HEAVY DELUSION has taken christendom for a fat ol ride down the long black train to perdition .
And how they all jump on the unity common ground lets get along train .
WHERE IS THE DISCERNMENT with THIS POPE francis
WHERE IS THE DISCERNEMNT with these wacked out nar leaders
with the kennys and the bennys
WITH the social justice false gospel
THERE IS NO DISCERNMENT , its just all , UNITY UNITY WE ARE ONE , WE ARE ONE . HEAL THE WOUND crap .
TIME WE BIBLE UP friends . BEFORE FOREVER ITS TOO LATE .
I joined a church a while back, some of their teachings I don’t agree with, this as you say is where we need discernment, anyway I prayed about what they were preaching, I believe the Lord led me to confront them over this, I was even going to leave because of my disagreement on what they were preaching, ( which by the way was only a couple of things, which I’m not willing to discuss) ..well, I confronted/ discussed my concerns over what they were preaching, they were fine about it and said it was fine ,that I was still welcome to worship there...

I don’t think there is any congregation that agrees on everything, do you?

I go there to worship God and give thanks, I ignore some of the teachings, I also need that fellowship with my Brothers and Sisters in Christ....

The main thing God has shown me is, check everything out with “ MY WORD” God’s Word and that’s what I go by Brother.....as you do, there is NO pulling the wool over yours or my eyes....like you ,I’m in Gods word 100% in my opinion and belief.
 

St. SteVen

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Only God knows who are Born Again....I would make “ NO” such claim.....if you got that out of what I wrote or typed, I’m baffled by it.
No evidence of being born again?
THAT sounds like pretend Christianity.

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Ritajanice

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No evidence of being born again?
THAT sounds like pretend Christianity.

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Who cares what you think.you should worry about your own salvation, my evidence of being Born Again came from the witness of the Holy Spirit to my spirit, now you try explaining that,lol.

What’s your evidence of being “ Born Again “..?..what ever it is, it’s just your own opinion of what you believe Born Again means, so, no more valid than anyone else’s testimony/ belief.

Romans 8:7. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.

You “ believe “ you are Born Again..same as I’m Born Again..that’s my belief and I don’t need to prove that to you or anyone else...I know I’m Born Again in my spirit, that’s where the Holy Spirit indwells our spirit....not your head ,lol...imo and belief....it’s the supernatural power of God.

You shall also know them by their fruit....

What is Gods word saying in this scripture?

Do you have spiritual understanding?....spiritual eyes and ears?....what do we need to have those?


Romans 8​

King James Version​

8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
 
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O'Darby

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FWIW, as I describe in my blog testimony, I had an actual, seemingly supernatural "born again" experience that was so out-of-the-blue that I pretty quickly questioned it and didn't fully accept its reality until decades later. I accepted its reality because I was, over those decades, a transformative effect I couldn't otherwise explain.

I don't by any means think that being born again requires a startling supernatural experience, but it is an "event" that occurs at a point in time and should have transformative effects if it's real.

As with much pretend Christianity, I do think the term is bandied about without a great deal of thought. It can mean little more than "Oh, yes, I've said that prayer you're supposed to say."
 
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O'Darby

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I hear that from anyone who posts on the internet.

"Born again" from a biblical point of view has a lot of meaning to me... but when people say it online it seems like they want to play with something as serious as that.

Those who call themselves "born again" on the Internet often talk a lot of nonsense also. It even seems like they've programmed online AI's to say that, and it makes me feel nauseous just thinking about it.
You make a good point. Much of what I call pretend Christianity is indeed about "saying the 'right' things." It's almost a code we speak to identify ourselves as "insiders." It was somewhat that way when I was with Campus Crusade 50 years ago. There was a lingo we all spoke and I, at least, didn't really grasp what I was saying. "Programmed" is a good word for it.
 

Pearl

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You make a good point. Much of what I call pretend Christianity is indeed about "saying the 'right' things." It's almost a code we speak to identify ourselves as "insiders." It was somewhat that way when I was with Campus Crusade 50 years ago. There was a lingo we all spoke and I, at least, didn't really grasp what I was saying. "Programmed" is a good word for it.
Many years ago there was a saying, It's not enough just to 'talk the talk we must 'walk the walk'.
 

Ritajanice

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FWIW, as I describe in my blog testimony, I had an actual, seemingly supernatural "born again" experience that was so out-of-the-blue that I pretty quickly questioned it and didn't fully accept its reality until decades later.
That’s interesting because I also had a supernatural “ Born Again “ experience, I was in my 30s, I NEVER questioned it not once as I knew in my spirit I had been Born Of the Spirit.

On saying that, God showed me his will for an area of my life, he spoke it / testified his will to my spirit, I tell you I could not get my head around it, plus I was a new babe, I mean becoming Born Again is mind blowing imo/ belief...then to have this revealed to my heart a few months later, it was so much to take in and understand....long story short, Gods will be done right as I type, it’s truly mind blowing watching it all unfold, I’m actually enjoying it coming to fruition now......it’s been a long hard and painful journey though...unfortunately I’m not able to share “ yet” ...hopefully one day.
This is my testimony/ opinion and belief....
 

Mr E

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Only God knows who are Born Again....
It's a relatively short and simple conversation-- but folks have such a hard time accepting what he said, and instead insist on telling you what he must have meant. Just accept what he actually said. Has anyone considered the idea that he meant what he said?

You have to be born again. Rather than convincing yourself of supernatural events of which we know little, why not focus on the natural event of which we know much. Jesus explains that the spiritual perspective is something we do not know. He makes a distinction between the natural (flesh gives birth to flesh) and these things we know about, and the supernatural (spirit gives birth to spirit) of which we know almost nothing.

Now a certain man, a Pharisee named Nicodemus, who was a member of the Jewish ruling council, came to Jesus at night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs that you do unless God is with him.”

Jesus replied, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born from above, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter his mother’s womb and be born a second time, can he?”

Jesus answered, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born of water and spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. What is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must all be born from above.’ The wind blows wherever it will, and you hear the sound it makes, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
 

dev553344

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Increasingly, the phrase "pretend Christianity" has been in my mind. Google the phrase and you'll find it’s in a lot of peoples' minds. I'm frankly beginning to wonder if about 95% of what passes for belief is really just pretend Christianity. I'm honestly beginning to wonder if there is any reality to all this at all.

All the hoopla that surrounds lots of peoples' Christianity – church activities, Bible studies, happy talk of God and Jesus, yada yada – I'm beginning to wonder if it disguises the fact most folks have no real belief at all and know they're just pretending. It brings to mind the Emperor's New Clothes: We won't admit, even to ourselves, that we're mostly just pretending and everything will be fine. As long as we all pretend together, everything will be fine.

The downfall of Ravi Zacharias a few years ago was a turning point for me. As you may or may not know, Ravi was one of the greatest Christian apologists of modern times. He was called things like "the most godly man in the world" and "a worthy successor to Billy Graham." He had a worldwide ministry. He wrote books and endorsed others – a Ravi endorsement was worth its weight in gold. He was a frequent guest on other apologists' radio programs and podcasts and was introduced in reverential tones and treated as an especially honored guest.

But Ravi was also a complete fraud. His academic credentials were greatly exaggerated. He had an extensive secret life involving sexual misconduct and abuse, replete with threats, payoffs and all the rest. It surfaced just before he died and was fully documented after his death. I corresponded with the attorney who first exposed the tip of the iceberg and watched agog as it all unfolded. Ravi had fooled his family, his closest associates in his ministry, all those who treated him as "the most godly man in the world" and, of course, his legions of devoted followers. Nonbelievers now had one more reason to laugh and say, "There ya go. Just another fraud. It’s all phony."

Ravi's ministry changed its name and pretty much collapsed. His books were pulled, his ministry credentials revoked. Christian authors removed his endorsements from their books. Those who had treated him with reverence now pretended they'd never heard of him. His devoted followers were crushed. It was about as huge and startling a fall as any Christian leader has ever suffered.

The typical Christian response was and is that Ravi's fall is just another reminder that we're all fallible and imperfect humans, subject to temptation and sin, yada yada. Well, yes, it is certainly that. After an appropriate period of hand-wringing, the Ravi scandal was tucked away in the little box wihere such scandals are kept while "Christianity, Inc." got on with its business.

When I tried to raise larger concerns, on forums and elsewhere, the response was always, "No, this just shows we're all subject to temptation and sin, yada yada. Nothing else to see here, move along please."

The larger concern I attempted to raise was, "Where was the Holy Spirit in all this?" Ravi was surrounded by believers, seemingly none of whom was blessed with even an ounce of discernment. His wife and daughter were clueless. His ministry staff was clueless. All the Christian leaders who associated with him, sought his endorsements and treated him with reverence were clueless.

The Holy Spirit was seemingly so weak and ineffectual that Ravi's family was devastated, his ministry was destroyed, all the good he had done was undone, his devoted followers were crushed, and nonbelievers were handed yet more ammunition on a golden platter. We prattle about how God did this and that and the Holy Spirit did this and that in our lives, but the Holy Spirit seems to have been completely missing in action when it came to Ravi. Someone couldn't have been blessed with enough discernment to step in before this caused all the damage it did???

I raised this directly with a couple of prominent apologists who had been among Ravi's most worshipful supporters. Does it trouble you that you were completely duped, that you were allowed to mislead others, that you lacked even a modicum of discernment? Forget Ravi and his foibles - what does this say about the Holy Spirit in your own life? What does it say about the Holy Spirit in general? Where's the beef?

I received no response.

It was and is enough to make me wonder, "Is there any reality to this?" Are we perhaps pretending to believe things that simply Aren't True? Is it possible that if there is any reality to Christianity, this reality is far from what we pretend it is? Is all the hoopla perhaps why "Christianity" seems so far from anything Jesus could have been talking about or possibly had in mind?

I don't have the answers, but I do find myself increasingly moving in the direction of a less dogmatic theism in which I more genuinely believe and away from what this brand of Christianity requires me to pretend to believe. Your mileage may vary.
When we follow Christ and the Holy Spirit of God I noticed that my charity was needed. I've always been a pretty selfish person and in my youth hurt a lot of people. God is changing me for the good. But the true church of Christ shares all things in common per the bible. It is not superficial, like who is righteous and who is not.
 
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St. SteVen

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It's a relatively short and simple conversation-- but folks have such a hard time accepting what he said, and instead insist on telling you what he must have meant. Just accept what he actually said. Has anyone considered the idea that he meant what he said?
Well said.
This happens a lot on the forum. (sigh)
Is it a cultural thing? This sort of mental rigidity.

Reminds me of... for some reason. (I prefer the eats)

1709759765832.jpeg

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Traveler

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For a long time the western nations have been under a form of social Christianity. It became the expected norm but now that the persecutions are starting the faith is going to come at a cost with the result that it is going to cause a strengthening and a deeper walk.
 
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St. SteVen

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For a long time the western nations have been under a form of social Christianity. It became the expected norm but now that the persecutions are starting the faith is going to come at a cost with the result that it is going to cause a strengthening and a deeper walk.
There's something to that. And a critical issue.
But I wonder how much of the persecution is self-inflicted, or rightfully caused. (we had it coming)
Especially where it intersects politics.

/
 
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marks

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For a long time the western nations have been under a form of social Christianity. It became the expected norm but now that the persecutions are starting the faith is going to come at a cost with the result that it is going to cause a strengthening and a deeper walk.
We were just reading this morning, my wife and I,

1 Peter 1:6-9 KJV
6) Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
7) That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
8) Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
9) Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

In verse 7, "the trial" of your faith, here is Young's translation,

1 Peter 1:7 YLT
that the proof of your faith—much more precious than of gold that is perishing, and through fire being approved—may be found to praise, and honour, and glory, in the revelation of Jesus Christ,

And J.P. Green's translation,

1 Peter 1:7 LITV
so that the proving of your faith, much more precious than perishing gold, but having been proved through fire, may be found to praise and honor and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

This "trial" of your faith is the proving that shows it is genuine faith.

God is proving your faith to you. He is, through allowing persecutions and other trials, proving to you the genuineness of your faith, and yes, I also believe this produces a greater maturity.

Much love!
 

Ritajanice

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Huh, well if we could only find that Book God published that contains His Word - we could learn what that means too!
Born Again is the “ Living” word of God?..

How else would one know they are Born Again?.



Do you know that Gods word is Alive and Active, ?

How could one explain that....only by the witness of the Holy Spirit?

According to, Hebrew 4:12, “the word of God is alive and active. The description of the Bible as “living” means that it has a vital power inherent to itself. Jesus likened the Word of God to seed in Mathew 13. Seed, like the Bible, is not dead, but living, and it has the ability to bring forth more life abundantly.


Hebrews 4:12​

King James Version​

12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

One is Born Again of imperishable/ incorruptible seed?

Gods word is very much Alive, and his word NEVER comes back void it always accomplishes what is pleasing to Him....I think that’s Biblical as well...LOL.

Berean Standard Bible
so My word that proceeds from My mouth will not return to Me empty, but it will accomplish what I please, and it will prosper where I send it.

King James Bible
So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

New King James Version
So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; It shall not return to Me void, But it shall accomplish what I please, And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.


NEVER underestimate the word of God and I’m not saying you are.

Always respect “ Gods” word......he NEVER lies and the enemy will do all that he can to try and convince you that you never heard Gods word.....speaking from my own experience ,all in my own opinion and belief.
 
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