1 Tim 4:10, A Special Salvation for Believers?

I think 1 Tim 4:10 needs to be harmonized with the rest of scripture, otherwise you can make it say all kinds of things. Since Paul was the same one who pointed out that no immoral person has any inheritance in the kingdom of God, it is unlikely that this verse should be interpreted as saying that everyone will have an inheritance in the kingdom of God. A reasonable interpretation of 1 Tim 4:10 would be that God is the source of salvation for all men, and that he gave is Son "as a ransom for all men". But not all men receive what Christ did for them.

lukethreesix said:

If Jesus died for all, but is not able to save all, then He failed His mission.

Click to expand...

If your drowning and someone throws you a life jacket, but you refuse to grab it, who's responsible for your death? Jesus is that life-preserver, but he doesn't force anyone to accept it (him). A life boat saves all who climb aboard, but you can't blame the boat for failing when people reject the life-boat because they are content to stay on a sinking ship.

Universalism isn't biblical; http://www.gotquestions.org/universalism.html

If we truly accept Jesus Christ's atoning sacrifice as our means of salvation, then we are indeed assured of salvation:

Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished - he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. (Romans 3:19-26,NIV)

The righteousness we need in order to attain eternal life isn't our righteousness; it's God's righteousness. And as a result of his own accomplishment through his Son, Jesus Christ, we now have access to that righteousness if we choose to accept it. But that decision is not God's responsibility, nor is it Satan's; it's ours.

I say it like this we incurred a large debt (sin) and thus owed God yet Jesus paid the debt (death on the cross and resurrection) yet if we do not accept the check Jesus wrote we are still in debt!

I sense a bit of ethnocentrism in the premise for the OP.

Recall what Jesus said the first time that people began to reject him. He mentioned two occasions during which God granted His favor to Gentiles instead of Jews. At that time, the Jews had a very low opinion of Gentiles and did not want to be told that God granted His favor to Gentiles, too.

The statement "For God so loved the World" was offensive to some Jews because they believed that God would only give His love to Jews.

So, throughout their writings, the Apostles reinforce the idea that God's gift of eternal life is available for people of all backgrounds, not just to Jews.

Today, when modern-day western Gentiles read the New Testament, they sometimes overlook how radical the Gospel was back during the 1st Century CE.
The Gospel declares that Jesus is the Savior of all kinds of people, not the Savior of Jews only.

lukethreesix said:

1 Tim 4:10, God is the Savior of ALL MEN, specially for believers.
Gal 6:10, Be good to ALL MEN, specially believers.
Gods Salvation is NOT exclusively to believers, but SPECIALLY!
Does Superman only save Lois Lane, or especially Lois?
Are we to do good only to believers, or especially to believers?
Does God save only believers, or especially believers?
The Bible does not say Jesus is the "Potential savior of the world"
The Bible says He IS the Savior of the World!
The Bible says He IS the Savior of all men.
One can not be a savior, unless he actually SAVES!

Click to expand...

Indeed. He has got on His knees proposing to ALL of mankind. You must try understand though that universal salvation is a nice thought but it does not equal a good God. What you have going against your theory is that God is good. He forces nobody to accept His proposal. What a good God!

Those who go to hell are consumed with selfishness. They don't want to serve God! They want to serve themselves. They love earth because there are lots of good selfless people to step on. Put them in heaven and guess what will happen! You think God can miraculously change someones heart from selfish to slefless? It didn't work with angels, it certainly won't work with us who are created beneath them.

Conclusion: Nice thought, but sadly extremely far from reality. Reality hurts God as much as it hurts us! Not seeing some loved ones in heaven . God loves them more then us and will do so for all eternity. What a good God we serve!

I hope you are right. We all do .

lukethreesix said:

Its shocking that you all believe that God is not in total control of his universe. That GOD can not get what he wants?

Click to expand...

I think your mistaken.. Yes, God inevitably gets what He wants, but He doesn't want unrepentant sinners. If all are automatically saved, then what is this experiment in the flesh all about, what was Jesus sacrifice for, why keep his commandments, and why wasn't eternal life promised to nonbelievers? The lake of fire is not a myth, nor a place of correction, but a one-way ticket to spiritual death. Everything in the bible is conditional, Jesus said "whosoever believeth", which denotes a condition, and that his father loves those who love him and keep his commandments, another condition.

"And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." (Revelation 20:11-15)

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." (Matthew 7:21-23)

The Bible says nothing of post-mortum repentance. I think you are succumbing to rationalism as a means of developing your theology rather than Biblical exegesis. If God wants all to be saved - then God must get what He wants - therefore, all are eventually saved. Rob Bell uses this faulty line of reasoning in one of his recent books as well.

This is similar to the line of reasoning that says, "God is love" therefore God certainly couldn't punish anyone, especially for eternity. God is love, but he is also just. He is also holy. He is also a consuming fire. Trying to limit God by one phrase of scripture as totally encapsulating and ultimately limiting to how he must behave is always prone to heretical doctrines. God cannot be limited by one line, one phrase or one series of logical statements. We must allow the entire panoply of Scripture to speak to us about who God is, what he desires and our responsibility as sinful humanity.

Belief in responsible grace is not "faith in faith." Let's allow the Bible to define what faith is rather than the gnostic modernistic notions that have crept into the church today. "Belief is a work" as this fellow argues is about the most biblically incongruent statement one could make. The Bible always contrasts faith/belief based righteousness vs. works based righteousness. Lets allow the Bible to determine its terms rather than Mr. NYC coffee mug and his self-produced report.

Hello everyone,

Looking forwards to getting to know you all over time!

Perhaps we could expand this topic by asking a question....how about 'when' when will everyone finally get a full opportunity to receive salvation, to drink of the water & eat of the tree of life?

For so long we have taught and been taught that full judgement kind of is happening now, that the resurrection of the unrighteous is kind of just a formality.

What if we have misunderstood something about the purpose of the resurrection?

What if the 'death' we are all able to be saved from is the '2nd death' and some might not accept that salvation during the age to come? What if the 1st death is the death Jesus called 'sleep'? John 11:11

Everyone is resurrected from the 1st death, but the righteous believers through their faith during this age are also saved from the 2nd death, which the rest of mankind will face during the millennium.

John 5:24
John 8:52
1John 3:14
Rev 2:11
Rev 20:6

Digging


(basic cut and paste function will not work on this site?)