Salvation Not Possible Without Works

It takes obedient works of belief, repentance, confession and submitting to water baptism in order to become a Christian, Jn 8:24; Lk 13:3,5; Mt 10:32,33; Mk 16:16. After becoming a Christian, there are good works God has before ordained the Christian to walk in, Eph 2:10. One must be a Christian to be saved and it takes obedient works to become saved and good works to remain saved.
'Faith only' has no role in salvation at all.

Arnie Manitoba said:

Indeed .... and if we read carefully it says faith without deeds is useless .

It does not say faith without deeds causes a loss of salvation.

Quite a difference.

I expect the "deedless ones" will be the Christians who are "rewarded little" at the Bema seat of Christ in 2 Corinthians 5:10

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Eph 2:10 God pre-ordained Christians to walk in good works. Since what God has pre-ordained cannot be changed, voided, ignored then how can a Christian remain saved and not do as God preordained? There cannot be such a thing as a 'deedless Christian'.

Secondhand Lion said:

Oh Ernest, Ernest, Ernest....

Please explain to me how else Christ isn't sufficient....alone....without my help...Please explain to me again how God is so small that He couldn't do it without us. Thank God for us...He would have been in real trouble without us.

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Christ never said "do nothing and thou shalt be saved". There are obedient works Christ gave in order to become saved and pre-ordained good works to remain saved. It therefore is impossible to be saved without works.

FHII said:

Just for the humor of reading the answer... I'll ask. What do you believe those "good works" to be?

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Matt 25:31-46 lists some good works and the context plainly shows judgment will be based on whether a Christian did good works or not. Those that did good works to fellow Christians/church was the same as doing good works unto Christ. Those that denied, mistreated Christians/church was the same as denying, mistreating Christ. How one does to a Christian so does he to Christ.

Eph 2:10
1 Tim 6:18
2 Tim 3:17
Titus 2:7
Titus 2:14
Titus 3:14
Hebrews 10:24
1 Pet 2:12


Titus 1:16





Titus 2:14; 1:16 & Revelation 3:5-16 – Three Types of “Good Works”
By Wayne Jackson
No informed person will deny that the practice of “good works” is an obligation of the child of God. Such “works” are an expression of one’s commitment to his Creator. The New Testament depicts three attitudes/practices relative to “good works.” This makes for a fascinating study.

First, Paul contends that one of the purposes of Jesus’ death was that he might “purify unto himself a people for his own possession, zealous [zelotes] of good works” (Titus 2:14). The word denotes a striving after, an enthusiasm for. Its meaning is perhaps best illustrated in the intense attitude that Saul of Tarsus had for the Mosaic system (Acts 22:3; Galatians 1:14; Philippians 3:5).

Second, Paul writes about those who are “abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate [adokimos]” (Titus 1:16). This word basically has to do with that which is “not approved,” e.g., a metal that does not pass the test (cf. Isaiah 1:22 LXX – "Your silver is worthless. . . "). Some members of the church, when compared to the divine standard pertaining to “good works,” just do not measure up. What will be their fate?

Finally, it may be suggested that there is an area, somewhere in between the extremes of red-hot devotion to the Lord, and stone-cold deadness. It may be designated as the “lukewarm” zone. To the church at Laodicea, Jesus sent this message: “I know your works; that you are neither cold nor hot: I would rather you be cold or hot. So because you are lukewarm [chliaros – tepid], and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth” (Revelation 3:15-16). The tepid mineral springs near Laodicea were nauseating, and such illustrated that sort of church member who still evinces a faint pulse, but who demonstrates no real dedication for truth. Their number is legion. In your Bible, reference these three passages — Titus 2:14; 1:16; Revelation 3:15-16 — and note the differences emphasized. https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/1016-titus-2-14-1-16-revelation-3-5-16-three-types-of-good-works

Secondhand Lion said:

Again my dear Ernest, could you please explain what I asked to be explained? How else is Christ not sufficient? Please explain in the bible where He said He wasn't sufficient alone.

It is becoming a habit for you to answer a question you ask yourself and not the one I ask.

Why do you believe Christ's work for us was insufficient? Why does more need done by us?

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I gave book, chapter and verses that require works to become saved and remain saved, you seemed to ignore them to ask me questions.

Christ is sufficient to save but he saves those that obediently obey Him Heb 5:9 and that maintain good works, Matt 25:31-46.

Christ's work is sufficient to save every man, Heb 2:9 yet every man will not be saved, Matt 7:13 for every man will not obey, Heb 5:9 2 Thess 1:8

horsecamp said:

its true we cant be saved with out works .......................CHRIST HIS PERFECT WORKS ALONE! SAVE US.

have you heard about Gods great exchange?

he takes our sins and gives to us his perfect works of obedience ..


So as you see as I said ..

works save ..FAITH SIMPLY TRUSTS AND CLINGS TO JESUS HIS PERFECT SAVING WORK ALONE..



BAPTISM IS NOT SOMETHING WE DO FOR God. its something God does for us..
did the man wash his eyes for Jesus .

no Jesus told him to wash so that he could do something for him give him his sight back..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5V8LTawhpw

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Again, Christ's works are sufficient to save EVERY MAN yet every man will not be saved for every man will not obey Christ in believing repenting confessing and submitting to water baptism. What God does for man is God does the work of removing man's sin but God only does this when man obediently submits himself to water baptism, Col 2:12-14

The man's sight would not have come to him had he not obediently obeyed the Lord's command in doing the work of washing his eyes. We cannot be saved if we do not obediently obey the Lord's command in doing the works of believing repenting confessing and submitting to water baptism.

Arnie Manitoba said:

I have never felt like I have done good works as a christian ... so according to your use of Eph 2:10 I can say I have done the works God has prepared in advance for me (none) ... so it sounds like I am safe

Bottom line Ernest T Bass ..... here is what you are doing ..... you have the prideful idea you are doing more good works than the rest of us unwashed Christians and you are eager to point it out

Right ??


Going by that , the logical conclusion is that God called us to be saved , he has preordained it , and has preordained we do not do works and we become unsaved.

Sounds pretty convoluted to me. Why not just leave us unsaved ?

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I never claimed to be doing more or less good works than others, you are twisting my argument.

My argument is one cannot be saved unless he does works, obedient works to become saved and good works to remain saved. That makes salvation impossible without works making faith only a false teaching of man.

Can a Christian remain saved and NOT do those good works God preordained Christians do, Eph 2:10? No. So again, it is IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to ever be saved without doing some type of work....obedient works to become saved and good works to remain saved. Man's faith only doctrine has no place in biblical salvation.

Arnie Manitoba said:

I still think you are confused about what works are

Certainly a person "has to do something" to be saved .... such as accept and believe and be baptized etc .... and from then on such a person should have good tendencies and live a good life doing good things.

But it is none of those things in themselves that save us.

It is putting our complete future in the Hands of the Lord by faith , and by faith we assure ourselves he will keep his promises.

When we confess , and when we are baptized , those are outward signs showing an inward belief and faith.

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God saves but God will save those that obediently obey His will and do good works, Heb 5:9 Eph 2:10. So for that reason James could say a man is justified by works. So God's requirement for the works means God causes works to save. Faith/belief is a work, [1 Thess 1:3, Jn 6:27-29] since faith/belief saves, [Rom 5:1, Jn 8:24] then it can be said works save.

You posted "Certainly a person "has to do something" to be saved .... such as accept and believe and be baptized etc...."

I agree. So there is no faith only involved for one must do obedient works to be saved and good works to remain saved.


You then post "and from then on such a person should have good tendencies and live a good life doing good things".

There is no "should" to it for it is a must, a necessary requirement, essential obligation to do good works. Matt 25, one cannot be a Christian and not do good works for his fellow brethren (actually no good works unto Christ) and be saved.


Eph 2:10 no getting around what God preordained.

Titus 2:14 "Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works."

Christ died for the group Christians so they would do good works. For a Christain not to do good works undermines Christ dying for Christians and implies he has no commitment to Christ.

williemac said:

Close! But may I add a few comments?

The judgment seat of Christ is not a judgment that determines one's eternal destiny. It is simply to determine rewards.

Since we are told that we are justified by faith, how do we get to where we need works to help in this justification? Answer: We don't.

The confusion on subject like this, for some, lies in thinking that the works help salvation. No, what they do is offer evidence that salvation was granted. Therefore if the works are absent, then salvation (the receiving of everlasting life) never took place.

Therefore, works are a 'fruit' of salvation, not an assistance toward salvation. The works come afterward. They do not precede the giving of the free gift of life. Right?

However, to make a comparison, if a glass is without water, it is empty. But what if it has a little water in it? It is no longer empty.

So the question is...when is faith ever "without" works? The problem in discussions such as these, some people use the term "faith without works" to discuss the quality of a person's life and works. The word "without" refers to quantity, not quality. Thus, the term used by James was meant to stir up a better showing of love, not disqualify anyone. A reading of the complete letter in context will indicate this.

Yes, Jesus on His judgment seat, will look at the both the quantity and quality of our life and works. But if a person never received life in the first place, he will not appear before this judgment seat. It is reserved for the body of Christ. And no one appearing there will be disqualified there. (refer to John 5:24)

Here is the problem. Men without faith also have good works. There are plenty of these type of people. Many of them are depending solely upon their works to save them. These are works without faith. These works will never see the judgment seat of Christ.

In terms of the gift of life (salvation), we are told in no uncertain terms that works do not qualify us, not before, not after.....Why? "lest any man should boast" God gives grace to the humble, resists the proud. Boasting is excluded. It is not even given a platform to stand on.

But who's works justify us for life? The answer is found in Rom,5 and summarized nicely in vs.18,19. Jesus!

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You posted "Therefore, works are a 'fruit' of salvation, not an assistance toward salvation. The works come afterward."


It is impossible to have salvation before works. Obeying God's commands is doing righteousness, not obeying God's commands is doing unrighteousness. Therefore one remains in unrighteous state until he does righteousness. The unrighteous are lost and remain in that lost state until they "worketh righteousness" and accepted with God, Acts 10:35. So it is impossible to have salvation without ever doing any works at all.


But going with what you posted here, that being, works are a fruit of salvation. So if this is true:

---can a Christian maintain his salvation without these 'fruitful works'?

If you answer 'yes' then that goes against, Eph 2:10, Matt chapter 25, Titus 2:14 among other verses.


If you answer 'no' then you are making becoming saved and remaining saved conditional upon works. And if you argue that if a Christian does not do good works and that proves he was not really saved to begin with, then how do you get one saved and remained saved WITHOUT doing works at all?

Secondhand Lion said:

Oh foolish Ernest, who hath bewitched you that you should not OBEY THE TRUTH, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?This only would I learn from you, Received you the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now made perfect by the flesh?

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Note what Paul said to the Galatians in this passage.....

They had quit obeying the truth, (Christ's gospel) by returning back to the OT law. Says as much in Gal 5:7

If the Christian quits his obedience he falls from grace, Gal 5:4 ......no works = no salvation.