Pictures of Christ 2 returns...

ewq1938 said:

The white horse/descending to Armageddon is just AFTER the rapture.

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ewq1938 said:

Maybe he does, maybe not. No passage says if he descends out of heaven riding any animal/symbolic animal or not. The horses in Rev 19 are likely symbolic like his mouth sword etc.

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ewq1938 said:

In Jewish tradition it goes Bridegroom arrives for the bride, they go to the wedding, then after is the supper so it would come after the second coming maybe in the Millennium, but I suspect the wedding and supper are symbolic since Jesus isn't marrying millions of men and woman in any literal sense.

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ewq1938 said:

The bible doesn't speak about it so no one can say definitively. We only know after the rapture that he is described descending on a horse. I highly doubt it's a literal horse.

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A Watchman said:

I see scripture speaking of the parousia as both an arrival and continued presence, it's the end of God allowing man to rule himself and the establishment of His kingdom to reign over man at the day of the Lord. There are several things that happen at His coming.

First, Yeshua is saving the faithful remnant of Israel out of the unparalleled time of Jacob's trouble in Judea. This is that unparalleled time in Jeremiah 30:4-7, Daniel 12:1, Matthew 24:15-22, Mark 13:14-20 in which Israel in Judea is persecuted by the Dragon, Revelation 12:13, after the abomination of desolation when he gives his power and great authority to the Beast. It is this time that Yeshua returns immediately after, Matthew 24:29-31, and provides the way through the earth, Zechariah 14:4-5, that swallows up the Dragon's flood, Revelation 12:14-16. This is a second Exodus from spiritual Sodom and Egypt where the Lord was crucified, Revelation 11:8, into the wilderness before entering the promised land.

Second, Yeshua is harvesting His bride from the earth at His coming. This is 1 Corinthians 15:51-53, 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 where the dead are raised incorruptible and the living changed and caught up together to the clouds where the angels gather them to Yeshua who has returned to Jerusalem to save the faithful remnant of Israel out of Judea. Matthew 24:31

Third, Once the 144,000 of the 12 tribes protected Israel in the wilderness is sealed, Revelation 7:1-8, and the bride is caught up to heaven, Revelation 7:9-17, the day of the Lord begins with Yeshua treading the winepress of the wrath of God. Isaiah 63:1-6, Revelation 8:6 This is visualized in the seven trumpets, thunders, and bowls that last from just after His parousia at the sixth seal until just before Armageddon after the seventh bowl is poured out and that great city is destroyed.

At Yeshua's first parousia, it was not a single event, but the time from His conception to His catching up to the Father in heaven, about 33 years. He arrived and remained to accomplish His Father's will to provide a way to restore relationship between sinful man and a holy God that was broken in the garden.

While Yeshua's second parousia will likewise be an extended presence, there are several things that separate the start of that continued presence and the events that establish His 1,000 year residence on this present earth.

First, we see that His treading the winepress of the wrath of God alone in Isaiah 63:1-6, tied to the second harvest in Revelation 14:17-20, is what produces the blood stains on His garments. The fact that He returns from heaven on a white horse with His wife in Revelation 19:11-21 with His garments already stained by treading the winepress of the wrath of God, indicates that said treading came before Armageddon, as John lays out in scripture.

Second, because the faithful woman, Israel, is saved out of the unparalleled time of Jacob's trouble in Judea by Yeshua at His coming and protected in the wilderness for 1,260 days/3.5 times, Revelation 12:6,14, then we know that His parousia must have begun 1,260 days before the end of the 70th week appointed to them and Jerusalem. This coincides with Daniel 12:11 placing the beginning of the Dragon's reign through the Beast at the beginning of 1,290 days. The Dragon gets the woman at first, but she is protected from him for 1,260 days, yet his reign is only 1,260 days. Revelation 13:5, Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7 Therefore, we know that Yeshua's return to save her out of this time must have been in the midst of the 70th week, not the end of it. This fits with John's vision showing the sixth seal in agreement with Yeshua as His coming, but the wrath of God not starting until the seventh seal is broken. Revelation 7 shows both the faithful woman and the wise virgins before the wrath of God begins in Revelation 8.

So I can see scripture lay out two aspects of the second parousia of Christ. He comes first to keep His promise to save Israel out of the unparalleled time of Jacob's trouble in Judea before they are wiped out by the Dragon, and second to keep His promise to the church that they will escape the wrath of God and stand before the throne. 1 Thessalonians 5:1-11

Both of these things are laid out in Revelation 6-8 and Matthew 24:15-31 in the same order, keeping the promise of Yeshua (salvation) to save His people, and arriving to tread the winepress of the wrath of God on all those that dwell on the whole earth.

His return from heaven at Armageddon isn't a second second parousia, it's part of the single second parousia that began about 1,230 days earlier in the midst of the 70th week. From the time of His parousia for eternity, He has arrived and is not leaving man to his own rule. He is destroying the sinners out of the land, Isaiah 13:9-11, the land promised to Him as the Seed of Abraham. Genesis 15:18-21, Galatians 3:16

Yeshua is the King of Israel and a king without land and without subjects is no king at all. This is why a false king will deceive in the authority of the anointed, the Christ, Messiah. Matthew 24:4-25 He will take what is rightfully Yeshua's and establish his own false messianic kingdom that will be destroyed so Yeshua's kingdom will be built over the ashes of its permanent destruction.

So while there are two times we see Yeshua's return visualized, and there are indeed two separate times if not more, it is all part of one parousia, the return of the King. At least that's how I see scripture lay it out.

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ewq1938 said:

The tribulation is against the bride though and we see her persecuted and even killed in the trib so a removal of the bride before the tribulation of the bride makes no sense.

Prophecy that Christian saints would be killed during the Great Tribulation:

Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

The Great Tribulation is Satan's wrath which targets Christians:

Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath , because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed , which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


The Christian saints killed during Satan's wrathful Great Tribulation:

Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them : and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.


The Christian saints killed during Satan's wrathful Great Tribulation are resurrected:

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God , and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

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