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Hidden In Him · Dec 11, 2018

VictoryinJesus said:
What beasts of the field did God make a covenant with for their sake? With domestic animals? Hosea 2:18
[18] And in that day will I make a covenant for them with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven, and with the creeping things of the ground: and I will break the bow and the sword and the battle out of the earth, and will make them to lie down safely.

Hosea 2:18 is again talking about literal beasts of the field here, Victory, only in a different context. The Lord was telling them that He would confine those animals that destroy crops from effecting the land (i.e. of Israel), just as He would keep back enemy nations from attacking and destroying them through the bow and the sword (see Jeremiah 15:3). Beasts of the field (rabbits, rodents, etc), birds of the air (Matthew 13:4), and creeping things (locusts, etc Joel 1:4) might otherwise have eaten their crops. Beasts that devour herds were another form of such judgment from God, such as in the verse you quoted below:

VictoryinJesus said:
Leviticus 26:22
[22] I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children, and destroy your cattle, and make you few in number; and your high ways shall be desolate.

VictoryinJesus · Dec 11, 2018

Hidden In Him said:
locusts

Not your average locust. Revelation 9:7-8 And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men. [8] And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.

VictoryinJesus · Dec 11, 2018

Enoch111 said:
But you are trying to spiritualize prophecies

Prophecies are already Spirit considering it is the Spirit that gives prophecies. Same as Ezekiel 37:4 Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the Lord .

Hidden In Him · Dec 11, 2018

VictoryinJesus said:
‘abundant flocks’ WHY are we(His people) inheriting beast? Are we going to eat them?

VictoryinJesus said:
Bring a sword and divide the body then?

See, this is the problem with spiritualizing literal Israel away to where everything is instead about the church. One's theology swings wildly into all sorts of misinterpretations of scripture that aren't there.

VictoryinJesus · Dec 11, 2018

Hidden In Him said:
to where everything is instead about the church.

Oh don’t even go there. No one is talking ‘replacement’ but rather Israel glorified and obtaining a (Better)inheritance of increase which is people from among the gentiles.

Hidden In Him · Dec 11, 2018

VictoryinJesus said:
Not your average locust. Revelation 9:7-8 And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men. [8] And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.

Victory, you are spiritualizing the scriptures away so badly that you act as if the nation of Israel didn't even exist. You do know these Old Testament books were not written during the New Testament era, don't you? They were written and read by the literal Israelites who had a literal nation in the earth many centuries before the New Testament was written. They were first and foremost sent by God to communicate to the people of that time what His message was to them.

Hidden In Him · Dec 11, 2018

VictoryinJesus said:
Oh don’t even go there. No one is talking ‘replacement’ but rather Israel glorified and obtaining a (Better)inheritance of increase among the gentiles.

Dear, in the name of teaching about "glorified Israel" you are distorting the truth by hyper-spiritualizing passages and then misapplying them. I wasn't worried about whether you were teaching replacement or not. It's irrelevant.

Hidden In Him · Dec 11, 2018

Enoch111 said:
Not after the Babylonian captivity but after the Second Coming of Christ, when Israel will be redeemed and restored. That is when there will be a RIGHTEOUS AND HOLY mountain in Israel (a reference to Mt Zion).

I'm not suggesting you believe this, but unless people reject Replacement Theology, they will never understand large sections of the prophetic books which point to the Millennium and beyond.

We agree in general on the issue of the end-times restoration of literal Israel during the Millennium, and most of the prophets make reference to this. I'm just not convinced there's much in Jeremiah that prophecies anything beyond the restoration of Israel after their return from exile.

VictoryinJesus · Dec 11, 2018

Hidden In Him said:
Victory, you are spiritualizing the scriptures away so badly that you act as if the nation of Israel didn't even exist. You do know these Old Testament books were not written during the New Testament era, don't you? They were written and read by the literal Israelites who had a literal nation in the earth many centuries before the New Testament was written. They were first and foremost sent by God to communicate to the people of that time what His message was to them.

Yes. Christ had not been revealed (manifested) yet to take away the sins of the world.

Romans 7:2-6
[2] For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. [3] So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man. [4] Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. [5] For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. [6] But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

“For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.” Can Israel bring forth fruit unto God while in the flesh? “Newness of Spirit” ...if you leave Israel there at the flesh ...where do she go but is rather called an adulteress. Israel has nowhere to go but to resurrected Spirit. Body and Spirit. To cut Israel (God’s chosen people)off as the ones, who through them we obtained mercy, have to remain flesh rather then Spirit to bring forth fruit unto God...that is the real replacement theology that prevents. Saying Israel (God’s chosen) is to remain flesh and a adulteress...while the body is Spirit.

Hidden In Him · Dec 11, 2018

VictoryinJesus said:
Can Israel bring forth fruit unto God while in the flesh? “Newness of Spirit” ...if you leave Israel there at the flesh ...where do she go but is rather called an adulteress. Israel has nowhere to go but to resurrected Spirit. To cut Israel (God’s chosen people)off as the ones, who through them we obtained mercy, have to remain flesh rather then Spirit to bring forth fruit unto God...that is the real replacement theology that prevents. Saying Israel (God’s chosen) is to remain flesh and a adulteress...while the body is Spirit.

I'm not arguing for any of this, LoL. Neither does Enoch to my knowledge. I'm simply saying that the verses you quoted were being misapplied is all.

VictoryinJesus · Dec 11, 2018

Hidden In Him said:
I'm not arguing for any of this, LoL. Neither does Enoch to my knowledge. I'm simply saying that the verses you quoted were being misapplied is all.

You never did comment on the locust and how God will restore what they have eaten.

Hidden In Him · Dec 11, 2018

VictoryinJesus said:
You never did comment on the locust and how God will restore what they have eaten.

You mean this? I'm confused.

VictoryinJesus said:
Not your average locust. Revelation 9:7-8 And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men. [8] And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.

farouk · Dec 11, 2018

VictoryinJesus said:
You never did comment on the locust and how God will restore what they have eaten.

There is an idea in Scripture also about the years that the locust has eaten...(Joel 2.25)

farouk · Dec 11, 2018

VictoryinJesus said:
Yes. Christ had not been revealed (manifested) yet to take away the sins of the world.

Romans 7:2-6
[2] For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. [3] So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man. [4] Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. [5] For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. [6] But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

“For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.” Can Israel bring forth fruit unto God while in the flesh? “Newness of Spirit” ...if you leave Israel there at the flesh ...where do she go but is rather called an adulteress. Israel has nowhere to go but to resurrected Spirit. Body and Spirit. To cut Israel (God’s chosen people)off as the ones, who through them we obtained mercy, have to remain flesh rather then Spirit to bring forth fruit unto God...that is the real replacement theology that prevents. Saying Israel (God’s chosen) is to remain flesh and a adulteress...while the body is Spirit.

I've been surprised at the amount of New Testament Christians that somehow claim that the provisions of Romans 7.3 don't apply to the church...

VictoryinJesus · Dec 11, 2018

Hidden In Him said:
You mean this? I'm confused.

It doesn’t matter. The point was God hides things in clear sight. Locust eating and destroying is Spiritual. God restoring what they ate is Spiritual. As beast is Spiritual. It matters because when God starts feeding the beasts and fowls it becomes, understood literally as maybe something it is not and we attribute something to God that is maybe not as man says it is. Where do you think Hitler came up with Jews were to go into the fiery furnace? Literally He attributed a horrible act to God when ‘literally’ is not what God meant at all. I like you and Enoch. Enoch has always taken the time to answer my questions. I respect you both and know I will never change what you see. All I suggest or try to provoke is another read and for you to consider. What is scary is that neither of you probably won’t because of pride and already being dead certain the things pertaining to God are literal.

Hidden In Him · Dec 11, 2018

VictoryinJesus said:
Locust eating and destroying is Spiritual. God restoring what they ate is Spiritual. As beast is Spiritual... All I suggest or try to provoke is another read and for you to consider. What is scary is that neither of you probably won’t because of pride and already being dead certain the things pertaining to God are literal.

Well I certainly do believe those things you mentioned can have spiritual applications. I just think we have to be careful and which spiritual applications we make. I do indeed believe that the locusts, cankerworms, palmerworms etc in Joel, Chapter 2 can be spiritualized as representing demonic spirits who have taken away spiritual sustenance from the people of God during our time.

I just think, in this particular instance, if you were to spiritualize Hosea 2:18 in the same way, you would have God making a covenant of sorts with demons to no longer eat the spiritual food of God's people. It's just a little too loose for me. I could see the language used of literal animals and creatures in a sense, because it would suggest that the Lord will provide another means by which they could survive; maybe send them to other regions besides Israel. But I don't really see any way to justify the language with respect to the relationship He has with demons and they have with Him... now He did let the Legion of demons that were in the possessed man go into the swine. That could be used as an example. But the language of "making a covenant" is pretty tough for me to reconcile between God and demons.

Hidden In Him · Dec 11, 2018

VictoryinJesus said:
Isaiah 43:19-20
[19] Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert. [20] The beast of the field shall honour me, the dragons and the owls: because I give waters in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert, to give drink to my people, my chosen.

Now this one here I think actually could be an accurate application, Victory. The beasts of the field could be made here to be the Gentiles, with waters of life being the word of God and the Spirit. But "giving drink to My people, my chosen" would here have to apply to the Jews still, since the beasts would be Gentiles here and the people would be the Jews. So the application would have to be at some point in the Millennium I would think.

101G · Dec 11, 2018

Isa 43:18 Remember ye not the former things, neither consider the things of old.
Isa 43:19 Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert.
Isa 43:20 The beast of the field shall honour me, the dragons and the owls: because I give waters in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert, to give drink to my people, my chosen.
Isa 43:21 This people have I formed for myself; they shall shew forth my praise.

Isa 40:3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

WHAT IS THIS HIGHWAY IN THE DESERT?
Isa 35:8 And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein.

John 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
John 6:56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
John 6:57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
John 6:58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
John 6:59 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.

VictoryinJesus · Dec 11, 2018

Hidden In Him said:
Well I certainly do believe those things you mentioned can have spiritual applications. I just think we have to be careful and which spiritual applications we make. I do indeed believe that the locusts, cankerworms, palmerworms etc in Joel, Chapter 2 can be spiritualized as representing demonic spirits who have taken away spiritual sustenance from the people of God during our time.

I just think, in this particular instance, if you were to spiritualize Hosea 2:18 in the same way, you would have God making a covenant of sorts with demons to no longer eat the spiritual food of God's people. It's just a little too loose for me. I could see the language used of literal animals and creatures in a sense, because it would suggest that the Lord will provide another means by which they could survive; maybe send them to other regions besides Israel. But I don't really see any way to justify the language with respect to the relationship He has with demons and they have with Him... now He did let the Legion of demons that were in the possessed man go into the swine. That could be used as an example. But the language of "making a covenant" is pretty tough for me to reconcile between God and demons.

I see your reluctance and I have had the same reluctance myself. Even last night I was asking Him because it makes no sense. But He says that which was against us now works in our favour. It is a promise. For instance the sword(weapon) of Goliath was placed in David’s hand and the very thing used to cut off his enemy’s head.
1 Samuel 21:9
[9] And the priest said, The sword of Goliath the Philistine, whom thou slewest in the valley of Elah, behold, it is here wrapped in a cloth behind the ephod: if thou wilt take that, take it : for there is no other save that here. And David said, There is none like that; give it me.

“Wrapped in a cloth”...do you see the body of Jesus wrapped in a cloth. The sword of flesh meant for destruction taken from the enemy when the word was made flesh: died and was resurrected in the Spirit of Life. (For out benefit). Matthew 27:59 And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth,

“There is none like that; give it to me.”

Hidden in Him...I don’t know anything; every day I have more questions than answers... all I’m saying is man doesn’t give the answers but rather God shows the hidden things through His Spirit. There is enough there though that makes me pause in saying beast are just beast and locust are just locust and sheep are just sheep and goats are just goats.

VictoryinJesus · Dec 11, 2018

101G said:
Isa 43:18 Remember ye not the former things, neither consider the things of old.
Isa 43:19 Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert.
Isa 43:20 The beast of the field shall honour me, the dragons and the owls: because I give waters in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert, to give drink to my people, my chosen.
Isa 43:21 This people have I formed for myself; they shall shew forth my praise.

Isa 40:3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

WHAT IS THIS HIGHWAY IN THE DESERT?
Isa 35:8 And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein.

John 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
John 6:56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
John 6:57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
John 6:58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
John 6:59 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.

Interesting: 2 Kings 2:12-15
[12] And Elisha saw it , and he cried, My father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof. And he saw him no more: and he took hold of his own clothes, and rent them in two pieces. [13] He took up also the mantle of Elijah that fell from him, and went back, and stood by the bank of Jordan; [14] And he took the mantle of Elijah that fell from him, and smote the waters, and said, Where is the Lord God of Elijah? and when he also had smitten the waters, they parted hither and thither: and Elisha went over. [15] And when the sons of the prophets which were to view at Jericho saw him, they said, The spirit of Elijah doth rest on Elisha. And they came to meet him, and bowed themselves to the ground before him.

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