I do not see fly away as most see it here, I am not promoting the rapture because I am not on a firm foundation on this subject. God has been tearing down man made teachings with me for some time and this is one of them. I am in the process of studing...but not grounded. That said I see the interpretaion more on this line concerning Ez.What's going on in the chapter is that the people of Judah have been taken into exile to Babylon. God's true prophet, Ezekiel, has been sent to them to convict them of their sin and lead them to repentance. But there are false prophets who assure the people that everything's OK, they don't need to repent and turn to HaShem. Ironically, this situation is essentially a reprise of what the earlier prophet Jeremiah experienced. God sent Jeremiah to Judah to urge the people to repent because if they didn't God would send them into exile. The false prophets countered with their "don't worry, be happy" message that God would never do such a thing so there was no need to repent and seek His forgiveness. Of course, Jeremiah's message proved true, and the unrepentant people were exiled to Babylon. Now, the cycle is repeating itself. The same people (or perhaps the succeeding generation; ch.13 isn't dated) are being seduced by another group of "don't worry, be happy" prophets who are promising them "well-being when there is no well-being" (v.10). They're reassuring the people that there's still no need to repent -- God will whisk us all back to Jerusalem in no time! Ezekiel counters with a metaphor: the false prophets are claiming to build a massive wall of security when, instead, it's just a "slight wall" (perhaps not even that; the word can mean a curtain which divides two interior rooms) and are now spending all sorts of time whitewashing it to make it look good. God says He's going to send a hailstorm to knock down this "slight wall" along with those who are whitewashing it (the false prophets).In v.16 the focus becomes more specific. Ezekiel is commanded to prophesy against the false prophets -- in this case, they're women, false prophetesses -- who are leading His people into destruction by reassuring them they have no need to repent. Again dipping into the well of metaphor, he pictures these prophetesses as hunters catching birds in a snare -- but those birds are the souls of the people of Judah. And it's all just to make a buck! The text refers to some sort of clothing these women are wearing -- I don't think we know for certain whether these are little cushions or headbands or what, exactly. But in all likelihood they were some sort of occult charms these prophetesses used for divination. v.20, has its share of translation difficulties, but the sense is that the false prophetesses are taking captive people's lives like hunters catching birds in a snare. God promises to liberate His people from their clutches and symbolizes that by tearing the bands or pillows or whatever from the prophetesses' bodies. KJV apparently got the general idea that the word porhot in this verse had something to do with flying, but missed the overall metaphor of snaring birds in a net. I don't know quite how they understood their translation "to make them fly" -- it doesn't really make any sense. The idea is that the false prophetesses were hunting people like birds.So there's actually nothing in the text at all about people flying. But even if there were, Ezekiel 13 would still have nothing whatsoever to do with the eschatology of the church. The destiny of the body of Christ is not at all in view in Ezekiel 13; the chapter has to do with the exiled people of Judah and the battle for their attention between HaShem's true prophet Ezekiel who's telling them to get their act together and the false prophetesses who are telling them to continue in their sinful comfort zone (and making money in the process). "Because with your lies you have saddened the heart of the righteous, whom I have not saddened, and you have encouraged the wicked not to repent of his wicked way so that he might live" (v.22)If this taught the rapture (fly away) the lies would not sadden the people it would encourage them. The rapture teaching makes people feel safe and happy...not the case here. it encourages the wicked not to repent...this is the case here, the wicked do not want to repent. The wicked would repent to have this peace. This will probably get deleted, but before it does the administrators will know where I stand!This does not state I am for or against the rapture, I do not believe this has anything to do with the teaching. If I see it wrong...I am open to see the TRUTH.
fly away.......
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If this taught the rapture (fly away) the lies would not sadden the people it would encourage them. The rapture teaching makes people feel safe and happy...not the case here. it encourages the wicked not to repent...this is the case here, the wicked do not want to repent. The wicked would repent to have this peace. This will probably get deleted, but before it does the administrators will know where I stand!
Well, what about the itching ears?II Timothy 4:2-4
Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Christ loved us so much he was willing to die for us, yet I see Christians that are so set on the rapture doctrine that they'll cuss, insult, and even buy a bumper sticker about it. I'm not trying to generalize here because there are numerous good folks who do believe in the rapture. In my heart of hearts I feel these people know Scripture well enough so that when the time does come they'll see and understand.I go back to the point, though. Christ died for me, Christ died for you. He died for everyone and this idea that we can be flown away from a wrath not even directed at us came about in the past two centuries. The idea and frankly cowardice in some cases that we are not to suffer as Paul, the rest of the Apostles, the prophets, and frankly much of Christian history is something that deeply inflames me when I consider it further.
Well, what about the itching ears?II Timothy 4:2-4
Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Christ loved us so much he was willing to die for us, yet I see Christians that are so set on the rapture doctrine that they'll cuss, insult, and even buy a bumper sticker about it. I'm not trying to generalize here because there are numerous good folks who do believe in the rapture. In my heart of hearts I feel these people know Scripture well enough so that when the time does come they'll see and understand.I go back to the point, though. Christ died for me, Christ died for you. He died for everyone and this idea that we can be flown away from a wrath not even directed at us came about in the past two centuries. The idea and frankly cowardice in some cases that we are not to suffer as Paul, the rest of the Apostles, the prophets, and frankly much of Christian history is something that deeply inflames me when I consider it further.
Denver, this forum has given me so much in my search for truth. I do not have itching ears...as far as wanting to understand it my way. I want God way, God's truth. Yes, I am slow to learn...because I am cautious. This Ez. passage is speaking of the false prophets catching the people like birds in there lies....But if you notice it is God that sets them free.
As for Ezekiel 13, it's a type in the same sense that everything in the Bible is a type in one form or another. Just as we have Nebuchadnezzar (the king of Babylon) and another king of Babylon that appears in the end times. This playing on the meaning of Babylon (babel) which is confusion.I'm going to correct some things (with love) in your post, because the explanation is a bit off on some important things.Ezekiel 16:16
To wit, the prophets of Israel which prophesy concerning Jerusalem, and which see visions of peace for her, and there is no peace, saith the Lord GOD.
Prophets is masculine here. This is speaking to prophets in general with the distinction of women only being made a little later for the specific incidence. This is not specifically speaking to male or female, here. This statement from Father reminds us very much of another.Daniel 8:25
And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.
Daniel 11:21
And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.
Again, remember this as a type.Ezekiel 13:10
Because, even because they have seduced my people, saying, Peace; and [there was] no peace; and one built up a wall, and, lo, others daubed it with untempered [morter]:
What do you think these folks with the rapture are doing? The Bible very clearly asserts that Christ will return (singular) at the last trump, of which there are seven. Are these people crying rapture (which is peaceful for many) not doing the very same thing? If the Antichrist is showing up first - the lamb that speaks as a dragon -(and he will), what happens when people are misled in looking for Christ to rapture them away, first?
v.20, has its share of translation difficulties, but the sense is that the false prophetesses are taking captive people's lives like hunters catching birds in a snare. God promises to liberate His people from their clutches and symbolizes that by tearing the bands or pillows or whatever from the prophetesses' bodies. KJV apparently got the general idea that the word porhot in this verse had something to do with flying, but missed the overall metaphor of snaring birds in a net. I don't know quite how they understood their translation "to make them fly" -- it doesn't really make any sense. The idea is that the false prophetesses were hunting people like birds.
Here is the word, parach, rendered fly:http://cf.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon...gs=H06524&t=kjvThe word is commonly used to mean sprout, but I see that the KJV translation (I think rather accurately) uses it in the sense of springing to fly.
To wit, the prophets of Israel which prophesy concerning Jerusalem, and which see visions of peace for her, and there is no peace, saith the Lord GOD.
Prophets is masculine here. This is speaking to prophets in general with the distinction of women only being made a little later for the specific incidence. This is not specifically speaking to male or female, here. This statement from Father reminds us very much of another.Daniel 8:25
And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.
Daniel 11:21
And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.
Again, remember this as a type.Ezekiel 13:10
Because, even because they have seduced my people, saying, Peace; and [there was] no peace; and one built up a wall, and, lo, others daubed it with untempered [morter]:
What do you think these folks with the rapture are doing? The Bible very clearly asserts that Christ will return (singular) at the last trump, of which there are seven. Are these people crying rapture (which is peaceful for many) not doing the very same thing? If the Antichrist is showing up first - the lamb that speaks as a dragon -(and he will), what happens when people are misled in looking for Christ to rapture them away, first?
v.20, has its share of translation difficulties, but the sense is that the false prophetesses are taking captive people's lives like hunters catching birds in a snare. God promises to liberate His people from their clutches and symbolizes that by tearing the bands or pillows or whatever from the prophetesses' bodies. KJV apparently got the general idea that the word porhot in this verse had something to do with flying, but missed the overall metaphor of snaring birds in a net. I don't know quite how they understood their translation "to make them fly" -- it doesn't really make any sense. The idea is that the false prophetesses were hunting people like birds.
Here is the word, parach, rendered fly:http://cf.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon...gs=H06524&t=kjvThe word is commonly used to mean sprout, but I see that the KJV translation (I think rather accurately) uses it in the sense of springing to fly.
Denver, this forum has given me so much in my search for truth. I do not have itching ears...as far as wanting to understand it my way. I want God way, God's truth. Yes, I am slow to learn...because I am cautious. This Ez. passage is speaking of the false prophets catching the people like birds in there lies....But if you notice it is God that sets them free.
No, no, please don't take it as me suggesting that you do! I'm just saying that the rapture idea is very appealing to someone with itching ears in many cases because it plays on the "I'm safe, I'll be gone" thought process.Agree with the second part - but what Word was made flesh to die for us?John 8:32
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
No, no, please don't take it as me suggesting that you do! I'm just saying that the rapture idea is very appealing to someone with itching ears in many cases because it plays on the "I'm safe, I'll be gone" thought process.Agree with the second part - but what Word was made flesh to die for us?John 8:32
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
(Denver;50695)
No, no, please don't take it as me suggesting that you do! I'm just saying that the rapture idea is very appealing to someone with itching ears in many cases because it plays on the "I'm safe, I'll be gone" thought process.Agree with the second part - but what Word was made flesh to die for us?John 8:32
I agree with the rapture teaching as appealing, As I have stated before..my flesh would love to believe in the rapture. The word made flesh was Jesus!
No, no, please don't take it as me suggesting that you do! I'm just saying that the rapture idea is very appealing to someone with itching ears in many cases because it plays on the "I'm safe, I'll be gone" thought process.Agree with the second part - but what Word was made flesh to die for us?John 8:32
I agree with the rapture teaching as appealing, As I have stated before..my flesh would love to believe in the rapture. The word made flesh was Jesus!
There is a verse in this chapter that I have just come across."Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of the LORD."Is this how you tie this in to the end times with the Antichrist? I can follow this now....I need to go back and study in light of this.
(Denver;50695)
No, no, please don't take it as me suggesting that you do! I'm just saying that the rapture idea is very appealing to someone with itching ears in many cases because it plays on the "I'm safe, I'll be gone" thought process.Agree with the second part - but what Word was made flesh to die for us?John 8:32
So I was looking on wikipedia:The Catholic and Orthodox churches as well as the Reformed denominations have no tradition of such a teaching and reject the doctrine, in part because they cannot find any reference to it among any of the early Church fathers[1]. Some also reject it because they interpret prophetic scriptures in either an amillennial or postmillennial fashion, as being more spiritual than physical.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RaptureI was taught the rapture in church when I was growing up. I think it is "possible" that it could happen; however, the chances of it happening seem are rather low.If the early church fathers didn't believe it, I'm not willing to put stock in it.
No, no, please don't take it as me suggesting that you do! I'm just saying that the rapture idea is very appealing to someone with itching ears in many cases because it plays on the "I'm safe, I'll be gone" thought process.Agree with the second part - but what Word was made flesh to die for us?John 8:32
So I was looking on wikipedia:The Catholic and Orthodox churches as well as the Reformed denominations have no tradition of such a teaching and reject the doctrine, in part because they cannot find any reference to it among any of the early Church fathers[1]. Some also reject it because they interpret prophetic scriptures in either an amillennial or postmillennial fashion, as being more spiritual than physical.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RaptureI was taught the rapture in church when I was growing up. I think it is "possible" that it could happen; however, the chances of it happening seem are rather low.If the early church fathers didn't believe it, I'm not willing to put stock in it.
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