The Israelites and the Law

[Keraz]

The ten Northern tribes of Israel were exiled from their Land because they did not keep the Laws, as given to them through Moses. At present, in their dispersion, it is not a requirement that they keep the whole Law, only at least the ten Commandments. Hosea 9:1-7, Deuteronomy 28:64 Prophecy clearly states that after their return to the Holy Land, the Israelites, now every born again Christian, will then go back to observance of the Law. Ezekiel chapters 40 to 48.

Ezekiel 16:1-52..Your father was a Amorite and your mother was a Hittite...
The Lord says to Judah: Your sisters, Samaria and Sodom, never behaved as badly as you and your daughters have done. They grew proud and committed abominations, then I swept them away, as you know, but you are worse than them – you make your sisters look innocent! Now, you must bear your shame and humiliation.
This passage is a graphic allegory of the ‘adulteries’, that is the idol worship, of Judah: the tribes of Judah and Benjamin and of Samaria: the ten Northern tribes of Israel and of Sodom: the peoples to the South of Judah. But the House of Israel are the peoples who have accepted the Salvation offered by Jesus and it is them who bear the proper fruit. Matthew 21:43

Ezekiel 16:53-59 I shall restore the fortunes of Sodom and Samaria and will restore you too, Judah at the same time. When you all rejoin, you will bear your shame and be disgraced for your iniquities. You were contemptuous of your sisters in the days of your pride and now the nations around you despise you. You, Judah must bear the consequences of your abominable conduct. The Lord says: I shall treat you as you deserve, because you violated an oath and made light of our Covenant.

Ezekiel 16:60-63 But I shall call to mind the Covenant that I made with you when you were young and will establish a new Covenant that will last forever. You will be ashamed when you receive your sisters, the elder and the younger. They will join you, but not on the basis of My Covenant with you. When I have pardoned you, you will remember and be so ashamed and humiliated that you will never open your mouth again. Jeremiah 3:11
Ref: REB, NIV, KJV.

The Jewish sages [Moshkovitz, Malbim and Abarbanel] say that the ‘sister’ peoples will be the most important part of the new Israelite nation after they all return and Judah will be subservient to Joseph. ‘Not by their Covenant’, means that the ten tribes will not convert to Judaism, but the Jews must become Christian. Jeremiah 12:14 They will be given true priests for the correct instruction in the Law and ordinances. Malachi 3:1-5

All over the world amongst some Christians there is an arousal in the direction of returning to ‘Hebrew roots’, meaning adopting Biblical injunctions and customs. This attempt to observe the Old Testament Laws sometimes takes the form of imitating aspects of Judaism, or applying their own innovations by a personal interpretation of what Scripture says. This movement of trying to ‘do Torah’, is especially noticeable among people who are identified as comprised to a significant degree as descendants of the ‘Lost ten Tribes’. The phenomenon of this searching for their Hebrew roots, seems to show an instinctive arousal amongst “Joseph”, and can be seen as a sign of the impending redemption of all Israel.

While the ‘Return to Hebrew roots’, is a positive sign of the times, just how far should a person who realizes their Israelite ancestry, go? The obligations of Joseph in our times should include; Justice, Honesty, Prayer and fasting, Bible study, being a good example to others, doing good works, no sexual immorality, no substance abuse, and read carefully what the prophets tell us about our future. 1 Peter 4:7

 

[Jack]

Christians are not under the Law! We have the New Covenant paid for by the Blood of Jesus!

Hebrews 8:13
13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Galatians 3:10
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse;

 

[Keraz]

Jack; what are the Ten Commandments? And Jesus added to them - love your neighbour as yourself.
Have you faithfully kept them?

I am not talking about the 600 plus laws that the Jews have, but what God expects of the faithful Chrisian peoples.

 

[Jack]

Jack; what are the Ten Commandments? And Jesus added to them - love your neighbour as yourself.
Have you faithfully kept them?

I am not talking about the 600 plus laws that the Jews have, but what God expects of the faithful Chrisian peoples.

Sabbath COMMANDS are a huge part of the Law. Ain't in the New Covenant.

Exodus 31:15 Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

Can't keep just one part of the Law. Have to keep all of it or nothing!

Paul was quite clear:

Galatians 3:24-25
24 The law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

Why would anyone want to curse himself and family?

Galatians 3:10
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them."

 

[mailmandan]

Christians are not under the Law! We have the New Covenant paid for by the Blood of Jesus!

Hebrews 8:13
13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Galatians 3:10
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse;

2 Corinthians 3:6 - who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The ten Northern tribes of Israel were exiled from their Land because they did not keep the Laws, as given to them through Moses. At present, in their dispersion, it is not a requirement that they keep the whole Law, only at least the ten Commandments. Hosea 9:1-7, Deuteronomy 28:64 Prophecy clearly states that after their return to the Holy Land, the Israelites, now every born again Christian, will then go back to observance of the Law. Ezekiel chapters 40 to 48.

Once again you are privately interpreting Scripture. The Mosaic Law (all 613 command including the ministry of death in stone) are fulfilled and moot now. We serve under a new law, the Law of Christ. And once again Christians are not Israelites unless they are physical descendnats of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

 

[Keraz]

Christians are not Israelites unless they are physical descendnats of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Thats good, because after 3000 years, we are all descendants of the Patriarchs.
Anyway, True Jews and Israelites are those people circumcised of the heart. Romans 2:29

Regarding the Law: Ezekiel 40 to 48 describes our duties and obligations when we live in the holy Land.

 

[Soyeong]

The ten Northern tribes of Israel were exiled from their Land because they did not keep the Laws, as given to them through Moses. At present, in their dispersion, it is not a requirement that they keep the whole Law, only at least the ten Commandments. Hosea 9:1-7, Deuteronomy 28:64 Prophecy clearly states that after their return to the Holy Land, the Israelites, now every born again Christian, will then go back to observance of the Law. Ezekiel chapters 40 to 48.

Ezekiel 16:1-52..Your father was a Amorite and your mother was a Hittite...
The Lord says to Judah: Your sisters, Samaria and Sodom, never behaved as badly as you and your daughters have done. They grew proud and committed abominations, then I swept them away, as you know, but you are worse than them – you make your sisters look innocent! Now, you must bear your shame and humiliation.
This passage is a graphic allegory of the ‘adulteries’, that is the idol worship, of Judah: the tribes of Judah and Benjamin and of Samaria: the ten Northern tribes of Israel and of Sodom: the peoples to the South of Judah. But the House of Israel are the peoples who have accepted the Salvation offered by Jesus and it is them who bear the proper fruit. Matthew 21:43

Ezekiel 16:53-59 I shall restore the fortunes of Sodom and Samaria and will restore you too, Judah at the same time. When you all rejoin, you will bear your shame and be disgraced for your iniquities. You were contemptuous of your sisters in the days of your pride and now the nations around you despise you. You, Judah must bear the consequences of your abominable conduct. The Lord says: I shall treat you as you deserve, because you violated an oath and made light of our Covenant.

Ezekiel 16:60-63 But I shall call to mind the Covenant that I made with you when you were young and will establish a new Covenant that will last forever. You will be ashamed when you receive your sisters, the elder and the younger. They will join you, but not on the basis of My Covenant with you. When I have pardoned you, you will remember and be so ashamed and humiliated that you will never open your mouth again. Jeremiah 3:11
Ref: REB, NIV, KJV.

The Jewish sages [Moshkovitz, Malbim and Abarbanel] say that the ‘sister’ peoples will be the most important part of the new Israelite nation after they all return and Judah will be subservient to Joseph. ‘Not by their Covenant’, means that the ten tribes will not convert to Judaism, but the Jews must become Christian. Jeremiah 12:14 They will be given true priests for the correct instruction in the Law and ordinances. Malachi 3:1-5

All over the world amongst some Christians there is an arousal in the direction of returning to ‘Hebrew roots’, meaning adopting Biblical injunctions and customs. This attempt to observe the Old Testament Laws sometimes takes the form of imitating aspects of Judaism, or applying their own innovations by a personal interpretation of what Scripture says. This movement of trying to ‘do Torah’, is especially noticeable among people who are identified as comprised to a significant degree as descendants of the ‘Lost ten Tribes’. The phenomenon of this searching for their Hebrew roots, seems to show an instinctive arousal amongst “Joseph”, and can be seen as a sign of the impending redemption of all Israel.

While the ‘Return to Hebrew roots’, is a positive sign of the times, just how far should a person who realizes their Israelite ancestry, go? The obligations of Joseph in our times should include; Justice, Honesty, Prayer and fasting, Bible study, being a good example to others, doing good works, no sexual immorality, no substance abuse, and read carefully what the prophets tell us about our future. 1 Peter 4:7

Jesus did not come to start his own religion following a different God, but rather he came as the Jewish Messiah of Judaism in fulfillment of Jewish prophecy and he spent his ministry teaching how to practice Judaism by setting a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the Torah. In Acts 21:20, they were rejoicing that tens of thousands of Jews were coming to faith in Jesus who were all zealous for the Torah, which is in accordance with believing in what Jesus accomplished in Titus 2:14, where he gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so Jews coming to faith in Christ were not ceasing to practice Judaism. This means that there was a period of time between the resurrection of Jesus and the inclusion of Gentiles in Acts 10 that is estimated to be around 7-15 years during which all Christians were Torah observant Jews. This means that Christianity at its origin was the form of Judaism that recognized Jesus as its Messiah. There are Christians today who are not imitating Judaism but who are recognizing that Christianity has always been a form of Judaism and are connecting with how Christianity was at its origin.

 

[Soyeong]

Once again you are privately interpreting Scripture. The Mosaic Law (all 613 command including the ministry of death in stone) are fulfilled and moot now. We serve under a new law, the Law of Christ. And once again Christians are not Israelites unless they are physical descendnats of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

All interpretation of Scripture is done privately. In Matthew 5:17-19, Jesus said that he came to fulfill the law in contrast with saying that he came not to abolish it, and he warned against relaxing the least part of it or teaching other to relax the least part of it, so you should not interpret fulfilling the law as rendering it moot. Likewise, in Galatians 6:2, bearing one another's burdens fulfills the Law of Christ, but you do not consistently interpret that as rendering it moot. Christ was not in disagreement with the Father about which laws we should follow, but rather he spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Mosaic Law by word and by example, so that is the Law of Christ. In Ephesians 2:12-19, Gentiles were at one time separated from Christ, alienated from Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, but through faith in Christ all of those things are no longer true in that Gentiles are no longer strangers or aliens, but are fellow citizens of Israel along with the saints in the household of God, which is in accordance with Gentiles become obedient to the Mosaic Law.

 

[Keraz]

I shall set My Laws in your hearts…. Hebrews 8:10
This verse from the New Testament, is a quote from the O.T. –
Jeremiah 31:31-34…The days are coming when I shall set My Laws within them, writing them on their hearts…

Church teaching says we Christians are now under the New Covenant, the Old is obsolete: Hebrews 8:10-13. However, it is fairly obvious that this prophecy of how God’s Laws will be set into our hearts has not yet been fulfilled. The great prophecies in Ezekiel chapters 20, 36 and 37 tell us when, how and why this will happen:

Ezekiel 20:39-44 Now, you Israelites, [Scattered among the nations as at present, but now identified as every true Christian person. Romans 9:8] go and serve your idols. But in days to come, I shall punish you for your disobedience to Me and no more will you desecrate My holy Name with your idolatries. But after I have gathered you into the Land of Israel, you will serve Me and the nations will witness it. You will know that I am the Lord, [BEFORE the Return of Jesus, Ezekiel 34:30] when I bring you back to the Land that I swore to give to your forebears and you will despise your old evil ways and follow only My Commandments. You will know that the Lord has done this for you, not for your sake, but for the honour of His holy Name.

Ezekiel 36:1-7…the enemy boasts: The ancient heights of Israel are ours. [the current situation] Therefore the Lord says: The mountains of Israel, now occupied by other peoples and plundered and despoiled by them, so I will act in the heat of My anger against those Edomite peoples who have seized My Land as spoil. [Edom: the descendants of Esau, now identified as the Islamic peoples.] Jeremiah 12:14, Ezekiel 30:2-5
This will be the Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath, an event extensively prophesied throughout the Bible – a literal Day of fire from the sun, earthquakes, tsunamis and powerful storms. All of the world will be affected, but the full force of this disaster will hit the Middle East, virtually depopulating the entire area.

These are the great promises of our redemption and the great gathering:

Ezekiel 37:11-14 The Lord said: These bones are the whole people of Israel, [every Christian person] They say: Our bones are dry, [spiritually bereft] our hope is gone [Acts 26:6-7] and we are cut off. [separated from the holy Land] Prophesy, therefore, the Lord God has said: My people, I shall bring you out of your graves, [your dead spiritual condition] I shall put My spirit into you, redeem and purify you, then I shall settle you into your heritage. Ezekiel 30:11-31, Ezekiel 20:34-38

Ezekiel 36:24-28 The Lord says: I am going to take the Israelites [now Christians] from where they are among the nations, I shall assemble them from every location and bring them to their homeland. I shall purify them from everything that defiles them, give them a new heart and put a new spirit within them. I shall place My spirit in My people, they will conform to My statutes and observe My Laws faithfully.
THEN they will live in the holy Land that I gave to their forebears, they will be My people and I will be their God.

Isaiah 51:1-2…We Christians belong to the Seed from Abraham. Galatians 3:26-29

So, the sequence of events is: first, the great Day of the Lord’s wrath, next His people are gathered and purified, then they are settled into all of the holy Land. Some years later, Jesus will Return for His Millennium reign.
Ref: REB. Some verses abridged.

 

[Jack]

Jesus did not come to start his own religion following a different God, but rather he came as the Jewish Messiah of Judaism in fulfillment of Jewish prophecy and he spent his ministry teaching how to practice Judaism by setting a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the Torah. In Acts 21:20, they were rejoicing that tens of thousands of Jews were coming to faith in Jesus who were all zealous for the Torah, which is in accordance with believing in what Jesus accomplished in Titus 2:14, where he gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so Jews coming to faith in Christ were not ceasing to practice Judaism. This means that there was a period of time between the resurrection of Jesus and the inclusion of Gentiles in Acts 10 that is estimated to be around 7-15 years during which all Christians were Torah observant Jews. This means that Christianity at its origin was the form of Judaism that recognized Jesus as its Messiah. There are Christians today who are not imitating Judaism but who are recognizing that Christianity has always been a form of Judaism and are connecting with how Christianity was at its origin.

And Jesus came to give us the New Covenant which has ZERO Sabbath commands, just warnings.

Galatians 3:10
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them."

 

[ewq1938]

Regarding the Law: Ezekiel 40 to 48 describes our duties and obligations when we live in the holy Land.

Those are part of something God wanted Israel to copy in the past. They didn't, and now it's simply part of unfulfilled history. It is not prophecy and will not take place in the Millennium.

 

[ewq1938]

There are Christians today who are not imitating Judaism but who are recognizing that Christianity has always been a form of Judaism

No, it was created by a Jew who had new things to teach. It was a new religion, that would have a new covenant and new people (born again etc).


Now, one should leave Judaism like Paul did and embrace the new religion with the correct Messiah.

 

[RedFan]

And Jesus came to give us the New Covenant which has ZERO Sabbath commands, just warnings.

Galatians 3:10
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them."

I don't read Galatians 3 to overrule the declaration that those who do continue in all things to follow the law are blessed.

Deut. 11:26 portrays the Law as both a blessing to those who keep it and a curse to those who don’t. Gal. 3:10 stresses that the curse follows a single slip-up (quoting Deut. 27:26). Gal. 3:11 tells us that justification does not come from the Law, and that life comes only from faith (quoting Hab. 2:4). But then Gal. 3:12 quotes Lev. 18:5, perhaps the leading OT passage suggesting that keeping the Law is what leads to life. (One finds this notion echoed in Ezek. 20:11, Prov. 19:16, Psalms of Solomon 14:1-5, even Matt. 19:16-17.)

Galatians never explicitly declares that nobody can keep the Law perfectly – perhaps because the “blessing” part of Deut. 11:26 makes that a questionable conclusion (see also Ps. 18:20-24), or perhaps because Paul himself elsewhere claimed to be “blameless” under the Law, Phil. 3:6. But the message I think Paul is sending is this: “Don’t choose to play by those Rules, you foolish Galatians; for once you sign up for that, you’ll almost certainly fail to end up with the required perfect score – and thanks to Calvary, there is now an easier way, so why take the chance?”

 

[Ronald Nolette]

All interpretation of Scripture is done privately. In Matthew 5:17-19, Jesus said that he came to fulfill the law in contrast with saying that he came not to abolish it, and he warned against relaxing the least part of it or teaching other to relax the least part of it, so you should not interpret fulfilling the law as rendering it moot. Likewise, in Galatians 6:2, bearing one another's burdens fulfills the Law of Christ, but you do not consistently interpret that as rendering it moot. Christ was not in disagreement with the Father about which laws we should follow, but rather he spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Mosaic Law by word and by example, so that is the Law of Christ. In Ephesians 2:12-19, Gentiles were at one time separated from Christ, alienated from Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, but through faith in Christ all of those things are no longer true in that Gentiles are no longer strangers or aliens, but are fellow citizens of Israel along with the saints in the household of God, which is in accordance with Gentiles become obedient to the Mosaic Law.

So if we are commanded to obey the whole law- How was your sacrificial lamb this past passover?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Thats good, because after 3000 years, we are all descendants of the Patriarchs.
Anyway, True Jews and Israelites are those people circumcised of the heart. Romans 2:29

Regarding the Law: Ezekiel 40 to 48 describes our duties and obligations when we live in the holy Land.

Yes and those Romans 2 Jews are3 the physical descendants of Abraham Isaac and Jacob.

We are all descendnants of Noah but not of teh patriarchs. That is just error that has been fully debunked.

I stand in amazement at how some very intelligent believers toss aside so many rules of grammar and understanding when they read the bible to come up with their own private interpretations.

Before I got into theological studies and learning dispensational and covenantal theologies and their variants, I spent several years in just the NT. Without anyones commentaries I knew the difference between Jew and Gentile and Gentiles cannot become Jews magically by trustingin Jesus. We become one body with teh Jews, and that is the body of Christ.

If you could only read objectively the books of Galatians and Romans, you would see Paul making clear distinctions between Jews and Gentiles throughout the books. There is a valid and needed historic reason for that! Judiazers were running around telling Gentiles they had to become Jews in order to be saved!

 

[Jack]

Thats good, because after 3000 years, we are all descendants of the Patriarchs.
Anyway, True Jews and Israelites are those people circumcised of the heart. Romans 2:29

Regarding the Law: Ezekiel 40 to 48 describes our duties and obligations when we live in the holy Land.

Israel Wannabees:

Zechariah 14:12
12 And this shall be the plague with which the LORD will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet, Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets, And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths.

 

[covenantee]

Israel Wannabees:

Zechariah 14:12
12 And this shall be the plague with which the LORD will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet, Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets, And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths.

Who wannabe antichrist?

 

[Jack]

Who wannabe antichrist?

Who's antichrist?

 

[covenantee]

Who's antichrist?

1 John 2:22
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

2 John 1:7
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.