jn 17:9I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.Amen, what a strange thing to say about people Jesus is supposed to have Loved and was about to die for !What does Jesus mean here in this statement ? Is he referring to people like you and i when he says, I pray not for the world ? Yes he is speaking of people here just as he is here:jn 15:18If the world hate you, ye know that it[the world] hated me before it hated you.19If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.This world that hates the Lord and his chosen people, are people like you and i..This world, Jesus says, I pray not for the world, but in strike contrast, those who thou hast given me [election is taught here by jesus] those I pray for..Yes the world that hateth christ and his followers is the world here Jesus christ didnt pray for..This means when jesus said in jn 17:17Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.He was not talking about the world He did not pray for, Jesus doesnt desire for those whom he did not pray for to be sanctified by the truth, but only those given by election, to him by the Father..The world here that Jesus did not pray for is the world of the ungodly as in 2 pet 2:5And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;This was a world by which God, by grace, seperated noah and his family from..There are two worlds in this world that the bible teaches, we have the world of the godly or elect, who by nature are ungodly, and then their is the world of the ungodly [non elect/seed of the serpent] who too by nature is ungodly..One world of ungodly [the elect] were created in order for God to manifest His mercy and grace upon..rom 5:6For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. Therefore these ungodly ones are what paul and i teach as vessels of mercy rom 9:23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Then there is another world of the ungodly [ the non elect or seed of the serpent] who are by nature ungodly, that were created as vessels of wrath rom 9:22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: This world, God created to be ungodly by nature, but instead of showing them mercy unto salvation, He chose to justly punish them for their ungodliness, in strike contrast of what He chose for the ungodly elect..The world here that was created as vessels of wrath is identified again by paul here in 1 cor 11:32But when we[the chosen/called of the lord] are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.This is the world that Jesus means when he said, I pray not for the world, a condemned world..Now in contrast, the world in 1 cor 11 32 is not the world that Jesus came to save as in jn 3 :16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.This world is the world that jesus prays for when he says in contrast to the world he prays not for..but he does pray for those whom thou has given me..this is the world we see in jn 3 16 & 17..You see, i am rightly dividing the word of truth here, but the false teachers of satan will object and deny this truth ..So the bible teaches us clearly that there is a world that God purposes to save jn 3 16-17 and a world that God purposes to condemned 1 cor 11 32..The condemned world, which christ prays not for lieth in wickedness 1 jn 5:19And we[the elect] know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.The word lieth in the greek is interesting, its the word keimai and it means to be buried under, they the world of the non elect is buried under wickedness..all kinds of wickedness, and not to exclude religous wickedness as false gospels..It also means that one is under the power of the evil one, that is satan..this means, that the death of jesus christ wasnt for them, because if it was, the power of satan on their behalf would have been destroyed..heb 2:Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;1 jn 3:He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.You see, for the world of the elect, satans power of death has been destroyed..so those who christ died for cannot be said to lieth in wickedness, lest christ death be of non effect..which is blasphemous to even consider for a split second..So this world in 1 jn 5 19 is those whom Jesus says, I pray not for the world..The world that wonders after the beast rev 13:3And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.This world Jesus christ did not pray for..There is in conclusion, a condemned world [vessels of wrath] that Jesus did not pray for, never did and never will..and there is a saved world [vessels of mercy] whom Jesus did pray for [those given to christ] the elect..And the godly should follow Jesus lead and example, and pray not for the world, but only for those that have been given to Jesus christ of the Father, pray that they will be sanctified by the Truth, and Gods word is Truth..
I Pray Not For The World
- Thread starter savedbygrace57
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
QUOTE
jn 17:9I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
It was not the time to pray for any other than His disciples. However, this does not mean that Jesus never prayed for anyone but a disciple!QUOTE
And the godly should follow Jesus lead and example, and pray not for the world, but only for those that have been given to Jesus christ of the Father, pray that they will be sanctified by the Truth, and Gods word is Truth
Yes we are suppose to follow what Christ taught us and that is to pray for everyone. When we pray for others, we are asking God to do His will, not our will.
jn 17:9I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
It was not the time to pray for any other than His disciples. However, this does not mean that Jesus never prayed for anyone but a disciple!QUOTE
And the godly should follow Jesus lead and example, and pray not for the world, but only for those that have been given to Jesus christ of the Father, pray that they will be sanctified by the Truth, and Gods word is Truth
Yes we are suppose to follow what Christ taught us and that is to pray for everyone. When we pray for others, we are asking God to do His will, not our will.
Agreed Lookin4ward and there is more than just the Elect and the unsaved as savedbygrace tries to imply The Elect are predestined forechosen to do certain in the World for the Lord...We might see some examples as Paul or Job ... But there will be other overcomers that have their hearts turned to the Fathers upon the testimony of the Elect who are put on trial by Antichrist ... This believe that there are only the Elect and the unsaved comes from Calvinists teaching ... And IMHO undermines the very word of God that anyone can be saved if they turn to Christ
Something very, very strange is going on in this world. Suddenly all I am hearing is how only the elect are to be saved. This is insane. Who is teaching this trash?
NO IT IS NOT. This doctrine is preached by a seducing spirit and that spirit is demonic.
1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the LATTER TIMES some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to SEDUCING SPIRITS, AND DOCTRINES OF DEVILS:11 Corinthians 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
Is the gospel of Christ, the good news, the message that salvation is only for the elect?
QUOTE (whirlwind @ Mar 19 2009, 01:49 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71049
Something very, very strange is going on in this world. Suddenly all I am hearing is how only the elect are to be saved. This is insane. Who is teaching this trash?
NO IT IS NOT. This doctrine is preached by a seducing spirit and that spirit is demonic.
Agreed 100% whirlwind... it's sad to hear people teaching this trash... and it's clear that savedbygrace57 is doing so and the fact he is making threat calls to everyone who clearly disagree with him. (And God) It's clear that he is calling everyone a devil, whether directly or indirectly.
Something very, very strange is going on in this world. Suddenly all I am hearing is how only the elect are to be saved. This is insane. Who is teaching this trash?
1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the LATTER TIMES some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to SEDUCING SPIRITS, AND DOCTRINES OF DEVILS:11 Corinthians 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
Is the gospel of Christ, the good news, the message that salvation is only for the elect?
Agreed 100% whirlwind... it's sad to hear people teaching this trash... and it's clear that savedbygrace57 is doing so and the fact he is making threat calls to everyone who clearly disagree with him. (And God) It's clear that he is calling everyone a devil, whether directly or indirectly.
QUOTE
this does not mean that Jesus never prayed for anyone but a disciple!
where does it say that in the bible..QUOTE (Christina @ Mar 19 2009, 01:58 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71045
Agreed Lookin4ward and there is more than just the Elect and the unsaved as savedbygrace tries to imply The Elect are predestined forechosen to do certain in the World for the Lord...We might see some examples as Paul or Job ... But there will be other overcomers that have their hearts turned to the Fathers upon the testimony of the Elect who are put on trial by Antichrist ... This believe that there are only the Elect and the unsaved comes from Calvinists teaching ... And IMHO undermines the very word of God that anyone can be saved if they turn to Christ
You just dont believe scripture..Jesus only loved His own jn 13: [sup]1[/sup]Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end. He didnt love the devil children..jn 8:[sup]44[/sup]Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.Now, are you saying that Jesus loved them and they were his own ?QUOTE
Agreed 100% whirlwind... it's sad to hear people teaching this trash
So then what Jesus taught and did was trash ?
this does not mean that Jesus never prayed for anyone but a disciple!
where does it say that in the bible..QUOTE (Christina @ Mar 19 2009, 01:58 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71045
Agreed Lookin4ward and there is more than just the Elect and the unsaved as savedbygrace tries to imply The Elect are predestined forechosen to do certain in the World for the Lord...We might see some examples as Paul or Job ... But there will be other overcomers that have their hearts turned to the Fathers upon the testimony of the Elect who are put on trial by Antichrist ... This believe that there are only the Elect and the unsaved comes from Calvinists teaching ... And IMHO undermines the very word of God that anyone can be saved if they turn to Christ
You just dont believe scripture..Jesus only loved His own jn 13: [sup]1[/sup]Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end. He didnt love the devil children..jn 8:[sup]44[/sup]Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.Now, are you saying that Jesus loved them and they were his own ?QUOTE
Agreed 100% whirlwind... it's sad to hear people teaching this trash
So then what Jesus taught and did was trash ?
QUOTE (savedbygrace57 @ Mar 19 2009, 04:31 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71057
So then what Jesus taught and did was trash ?
How you understand and twist His Word is the problem.
Now I see. I just went to view your profile....BELOVED 57. I thought I was hearing the same old story with the same old attitude attached. There is nothing new under the sun.
So then what Jesus taught and did was trash ?
How you understand and twist His Word is the problem.
QUOTE
where does it say that in the bible..
Luke 23:34 34Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.QUOTE (Christina @ Mar 19 2009, 01:58 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71045
Agreed Lookin4ward and there is more than just the Elect and the unsaved as savedbygrace tries to imply The Elect are predestined forechosen to do certain in the World for the Lord...We might see some examples as Paul or Job ... But there will be other overcomers that have their hearts turned to the Fathers upon the testimony of the Elect who are put on trial by Antichrist ... This believe that there are only the Elect and the unsaved comes from Calvinists teaching ... And IMHO undermines the very word of God that anyone can be saved if they turn to Christ
Thanks ((((Christina))) for your insight and wisdom. God bless you for your witnessing!
where does it say that in the bible..
Luke 23:34 34Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.QUOTE (Christina @ Mar 19 2009, 01:58 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71045
Agreed Lookin4ward and there is more than just the Elect and the unsaved as savedbygrace tries to imply The Elect are predestined forechosen to do certain in the World for the Lord...We might see some examples as Paul or Job ... But there will be other overcomers that have their hearts turned to the Fathers upon the testimony of the Elect who are put on trial by Antichrist ... This believe that there are only the Elect and the unsaved comes from Calvinists teaching ... And IMHO undermines the very word of God that anyone can be saved if they turn to Christ
Thanks ((((Christina))) for your insight and wisdom. God bless you for your witnessing!
QUOTE
Luke 23:34 34Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.
Ah yes, and those to whom this prayer applied recieved forgiveness on the day of pentecost..acts 2: 22Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 23Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: So the prayer was answered wonderfully when these here in acts 2 were brought under conviction by the Holy Ghost for their dastardely deed..notice : 36Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. 37Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call. So your picking that verse only goes to confirm my post, those Jesus prayed for in lk 23 34 are the same ones jesus prayed for in jn 17 :9 they would fall under vs 20Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; In other words, they are the ones, lk 23 34. that would believe on christ from the word or preaching of the disciples..cant you see that ?So your point is moot and shows me you dont study or understand scriptures..scripture is its own best interpreter..not the reasoning of men..
Luke 23:34 34Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.
Ah yes, and those to whom this prayer applied recieved forgiveness on the day of pentecost..acts 2: 22Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 23Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: So the prayer was answered wonderfully when these here in acts 2 were brought under conviction by the Holy Ghost for their dastardely deed..notice : 36Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. 37Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call. So your picking that verse only goes to confirm my post, those Jesus prayed for in lk 23 34 are the same ones jesus prayed for in jn 17 :9 they would fall under vs 20Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; In other words, they are the ones, lk 23 34. that would believe on christ from the word or preaching of the disciples..cant you see that ?So your point is moot and shows me you dont study or understand scriptures..scripture is its own best interpreter..not the reasoning of men..
QUOTE
Ah yes, and those to whom this prayer applied recieved forgiveness on the day of pentecost..acts 2:
Please document this connection beyond you simply saying that two Scriptures are related.
Ah yes, and those to whom this prayer applied recieved forgiveness on the day of pentecost..acts 2:
Please document this connection beyond you simply saying that two Scriptures are related.
QUOTE (Denver @ Mar 20 2009, 11:48 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71087
Please document this connection beyond you simply saying that two Scriptures are related.
I already did..you cant see it though..
Please document this connection beyond you simply saying that two Scriptures are related.
I already did..you cant see it though..
This I will say, Jesus died for the world.john 3:16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.Look at the Sermon Jesus gave in Matthew 5-7There are clearly only two ways Matthew 713) Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14) Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.You are either in the strait gate or wide gate. You are either on the broad way or the narrow way. You are ethier destine for heaven or hell, eternal life or eternal death. There is no inbetween. Notice this, one is ethier born of Spirit or they CANNOT ENTER into the kingdom of God. John 3:5) Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.Again, there is no in between.Matthew 7:18) A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Notice, again, no in between.Matthew 7)26) And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27) And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.Either you are on the foundation of his word of you are going to be crushed in judgement .Romans 8:1) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.Etheir you are in Christ, or you are not, and you are you are still headed for condemnationYou are ethier elected by God or you are not. You are ethier by His divine worked transformed into a new creature or not. There are only the elect and those who are damned. Christina said"This believe that there are only the Elect and the unsaved comes from Calvinists teaching"but did you even take in account that unless the Holy Spirit moves upon a person's heart and convicts them, that they WILL NOT be saved no matter how many times they are preached to!Acts 2:39) For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.The Lord even says in John 6:44) No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.God has absolute Sovereignty and decides who gets saved. Christina says "But there will be other overcomers that have their hearts turned to the Fathers upon the testimony of the Elect who are put on trial by Antichrist "Those people that have their hearts changed are of God's elect, who He has chosen to come to the truth. Don't you see that only by the regeneration of the Holy Ghost the divine working of God, that no one would come to the truth, because it is not in the nature of mankind, the natural and unconverted man. Men hate God and it is only by the Grace of God and his working one can be brought to the truth.Romans 311) There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12) They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Why, because mans fallen nature keeps them from seeking God, even when given the choice, they would not, this is why people flee from the REAL truth of the bible, why they don't like God's word, and we as God's children, who are converted, love his word.Jeremiah 17:9) The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?Now would that type of heart ever, and I mean ever heed God? I think notLearn the malady of man. How corrupt and evil in nature we are apart from the grace of God and you will see what I mean by all this.
QUOTE
This I will say, Jesus died for the world.
The sheep in the world yes jn 10: 15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.He did not die for the devils children in the world..
This I will say, Jesus died for the world.
The sheep in the world yes jn 10: 15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.He did not die for the devils children in the world..
Similar threads
