The " catching up " rapture must be so very very close!!

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ewq1938

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The two witnesses prophesy 1260 days, then are killed, then are brought back to life, then the 7th trumpet sounds. The 7th trumpet signifies the coming third woe to the inhabiters of the earth, i.e. Satan cast down having great wrath for the remaining time/times/half time of the 7 years.

You're just ignoring the content of my posts. The 7th trump is the end of the beast's 42 month reign not the beginning of 42 months of reigning.

The 3rd woe trump is not found in Rev 12. satan is kicked out of heaven prior to the GT (6th trump) and is likely seen in the 3rd trump matching what Christ said about satan being cast down:


Luke 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.



lightning
796

796 astrape {as-trap-ay'}

from 797; TDNT - 1:505,86; n f

AV - lightning 8, light shining 1; 9

1) lightning
1a) of the gleam of a lamp


"the gleam of a lamp"

Revelation 8:10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;
Revelation 8:11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.

"burning as it were a lamp"

Christ himself documenting satan's fall in the 3rd trump.
 

Timtofly

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The two witnesses prophesy 1260 days, then are killed, then are brought back to life, then the 7th trumpet sounds. The 7th trumpet signifies the coming third woe to the inhabiters of the earth, i.e. Satan cast down having great wrath for the remaining time/times/half time of the 7 years. Therefore. the 1260 days are the first half, and the time/times.half time in the second half of the 7 years.

The temple will not be trampled for the first half of the 7 years. The Jews will be conducting animals sacrifices there, under the
watchful of the Antichrist, their thought-to-be messiah at the time. During that time, the two witnesses will be warning the Jews that their thought-to-be messiah is a phony.

It is not until the two witnesses as gone and the beast-king (former Antichrist) and his entourage trample down the temple complex for the 42 months of his rule, during the second half of the 7 years.
You are changing the chronology of Revelation to fit your point. The 2 witnesses are not even introduced until after the 7th Trumpet sounds. Just like you say Satan is not even kicked out of heaven until the 7th Trumpet sounds. There is no AoD nor AC and FP until after the 7th Trumpet sounds. You are putting chapter 13 ahead of chapter 6.
 

Douggg

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You're just ignoring the content of my posts. The 7th trump is the end of the beast's 42 month reign not the beginning of 42 months of reigning.
I did not ignore it. I responded saying it is wrong.

The 3rd woe trump is not found in Rev 12. satan is kicked out of heaven prior to the GT (6th trump) and is likely seen in the 3rd trump matching what Christ said about satan being cast down:
The 7th trumpet sounding announces the third woe "to the inhabitors of the earth". You are ignoring that in Revelation 12:12,

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Luke 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
Luke 10:18 is Satan falling as lightning (not cast down) - because of the 70 disciples were casting out demons and healing people in Luke 10:17.

Differently, in Revelation 12, Satan is cast down to earth having but a time/times/half time left is because of war in the second heaven which Michael and his angels cast Satan and his angels down to earth, in Revelation 12:7-9.

Revelation 8:10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;
Revelation 8:11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.

"burning as it were a lamp"

Christ himself documenting satan's fall in the 3rd trump.
No, the third trumpet sounding is about an asteroid striking the earth and poisoning a third part of the waters. The name of the asteroid - Wormwood.
 
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Douggg

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You are changing the chronology of Revelation to fit your point. The 2 witnesses are not even introduced until after the 7th Trumpet sounds. Just like you say Satan is not even kicked out of heaven until the 7th Trumpet sounds. There is no AoD nor AC and FP until after the 7th Trumpet sounds. You are putting chapter 13 ahead of chapter 6.
The 1260 days of two witnesses' testimony is in Revelation 11:3-13.

The 7th angel then sounds his trumpet in Revelation 11:15 - after the two witnesses are gone.

The 7th angel sounding announces the third woe to the inhabiters of the earth, based on Revelation 8:13.

Revelation 12:12 after the war in the second heaven, which Michael and his angels cast Satan and his angels down to earth,

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Why do you disregard what it says in Revelation 12:12 - Woe to the inhabiters of the earth ?

You are putting chapter 13 ahead of chapter 6.

In Chapter 6, Jesus removed the seals on the scroll. The scroll was opened to reveal what would take place in the 7 years leading up to Jesus's return. Chapter 13 are events in the second half of those 7 years.
 
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Timtofly

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The 1260 days of two witnesses' testimony is in Revelation 11:3-13.

The 7th angel then sounds his trumpet in Revelation 11:15 - after the two witnesses are gone.

The 7th angel sounding announces the third woe to the inhabiters of the earth, based on Revelation 8:13.

Revelation 12:12 after the war in the second heaven, which Michael and his angels cast Satan and his angels down to earth,

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Why do you disregard what it says in Revelation 12:12 - Woe to the inhabiters of the earth ?



In Chapter 6, Jesus removed the seals on the scroll. The scroll was opened to reveal what would take place in the 7 years leading up to Jesus's return. Chapter 13 are events in the second half of those 7 years.
The first part of chapter 11 is a parenthetical explanation of the 7th Trumpet. Chapter 10 is a parenthetical describing the 7th Trumpet. Chapter 12 is a parenthetical.

The 7th Trumpet sounds, and the only chronological narrative is that Jesus is declared King of the 7th Kingdom.

Revelation 13 is the third woe.

If the 2 witnesses were part of the chronological narrative of the first 6 Trumpets, they would have been seen in Revelation 7 along with the 144k. The 2 witnesses parallel the events of Revelation 13. The 144k parallel the events of the Trumpets and Thunders.


The 2 witnesses are not in the the first 6 Trumpets, nor the 7 Thunders. The 144k are on the earth during the first 6 Trumpets, and the 7 Thunders. So is Jesus and the angels as they came to earth at the 6th Seal. The final harvest covers the events of the first 6 Trumpets and 7 Thunders. The final harvest is described in Matthew 13 and 25.

The first 2 woes are mentioned with the 5th and 6th Trumpets. Those woes carry in to the 7 Thunders. The last half of Revelation 10, then begins to explain the 7th Trumpet. The 7th Trumpet is explained as the time of the 2 witnesses.

Then the chronological narrative starts back up with:

"The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly."

The 2 witnesses were not part of the chronological narrative, but a parenthetical.

The second woe was past, way back in chapter 9 prior to the 7 Thunders. So the chronological narrative stopped when John was told not to write about the 7 Thunders. Jesus was redeeming the nations one soul at a time during the the first 6 Trumpets and the 7 Thunders. Now when the 7th Trumpet sounds, that work is finished. They are now become the kingdoms of Christ.

In the midst of the week of the 7th Trumpet, which is a set of days, as written in Revelation 10, "the days of the 7th Trumpet", Jesus will either hand the kingdom over to Satan for 42 months. Or the winepress of God's wrath will destroy the rest of humanity, and Satan will be bound in the pit at the end of the the week of days.

The confirmation of the Atonement Covenant is to determine if there is any left on earth at that point to be redeemed. The Covenant still covers those beheaded, only if there are any that will be beheaded. Only God can say at that point who will be beheaded, or if no one will be beheaded in the next 42 months.

"But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months."

At this point there will not be any of Jacob's offspring on the earth, except the 144k with Jesus. Only Gentiles will be left, and not even that many. More than show up at Armageddon 42 months later. The 144k leave with Jesus to mount Zion, when Satan is allowed to be the 8th kingdom. Many will be killed during the next 42 months, because of human wickedness and greed. Many will be beheaded, because that is the only reason why time is extended. The Gentiles mentioned in that verse will have the mark, and be following Satan's desires. No one will be redeemed waiting for the battle of Armageddon to be raptured. The only souls redeemed during this 42 months will be those beheaded, and they will have to wait to receive a body, until after Satan is bound in the pit. The 144k already have a redeemed body, because they wait with Jesus on Mount Zion. Those souls harvested during the final harvest have a physical body then, as they return on horses to start the Millennial Kingdom. They are those waiting on the sea of glass.

In Revelation 12 the wilderness is symbolic in keeping with the historical narrative of the OT, however why would there be both a physical wilderness on earth and this sea of glass not on earth. The final harvest would be physically waiting on the sea of glass. The wilderness is symbolic of this sea of glass. The sea of glass is not on the earth, because John describes it in heaven prior to the Seals being opened.
 

Timtofly

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In Chapter 6, Jesus removed the seals on the scroll. The scroll was opened to reveal what would take place in the 7 years leading up to Jesus's return. Chapter 13 are events in the second half of those 7 years.
This is part of the misleading mindset of the "left behind" eschatology that is wrong.

The Lamb's book of life contains all the names of every human who ever lived as being covered by the Atonement Covenant. This is the Record and physical document in heaven of that contract between God and Adam's offspring.

The Lamb's book of life covered all of the last 6,000 years. It is not a "road map" of a future 7 years, according to the left behind mentality. Those horses represent death to Adam's way of life. Each time a seal is opened, death is more certain and permanent for many. Once the 7th Seal is opened, names will start being removed one soul at a time, starting with those still alive on the earth. The last names removed are a thousand years later at the GWT Judgment event.

The 6th Seal is the Second Coming. Jesus will personally and physically face every one in Judgment sitting on a throne in a temple in Jerusalem. God would not be righteous nor just to not give every human with or without a physical body, a chance to represent themselves directly to their creator.

This left behind mentality totally disregards the face to face standing in judgment process. The shorter in length of time this process takes, the more elect will be saved. That is why the point of the Second Coming is an unknown. God is giving more humans a chance to freely choose Him. That way more will be removed as the church at the Second Coming.

The first 4 Seals was God giving the church a chance to step up and gather a golden harvest, to all those who obeyed God. 5 virgins would be prepared, 5 would not.
 

ewq1938

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The 7th trumpet sounding announces the third woe "to the inhabitors of the earth". You are ignoring that in Revelation 12:12,

The 3rd woe isn't found in Rev 12. It is the GT/6th trump and that is in Rev 13.


12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.


Luke 10:18 is Satan falling as lightning (not cast down) - because of the 70 disciples were casting out demons and healing people in Luke 10:17.


Casting out demons is not what cast satan out of heaven. They are unrelated.



Differently, in Revelation 12, Satan is cast down to earth having but a time/times/half time left is because of war in the second heaven which Michael and his angels cast Satan and his angels down to earth, in Revelation 12:7-9.


No, the third trumpet sounding is about an asteroid striking the earth and poisoning a third part of the waters. The name of the asteroid - Wormwood.

A star is symbolic language for an angel not an asteroid. satan is cast out of heaven in the 3rd trump, not the 7th trump when Christ rules this world and nor can the beast rule the world for another 42 months after the 7th trump.
 

Douggg

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The 3rd woe isn't found in Rev 12. It is the GT/6th trump and that is in Rev 13.
Do you see the words "Woe to the inhabiters of the earth" in Revelation 12:12 ?

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
 

Douggg

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This is part of the misleading mindset of the "left behind" eschatology that is wrong.

The Lamb's book of life contains all the names of every human who ever lived as being covered by the Atonement Covenant. This is the Record and physical document in heaven of that contract between God and Adam's offspring.

The Lamb's book of life covered all of the last 6,000 years. It is not a "road map" of a future 7 years, according to the left behind mentality. Those horses represent death to Adam's way of life. Each time a seal is opened, death is more certain and permanent for many. Once the 7th Seal is opened, names will start being removed one soul at a time, starting with those still alive on the earth. The last names removed are a thousand years later at the GWT Judgment event.

The 6th Seal is the Second Coming. Jesus will personally and physically face every one in Judgment sitting on a throne in a temple in Jerusalem. God would not be righteous nor just to not give every human with or without a physical body, a chance to represent themselves directly to their creator.

This left behind mentality totally disregards the face to face standing in judgment process. The shorter in length of time this process takes, the more elect will be saved. That is why the point of the Second Coming is an unknown. God is giving more humans a chance to freely choose Him. That way more will be removed as the church at the Second Coming.

The first 4 Seals was God giving the church a chance to step up and gather a golden harvest, to all those who obeyed God. 5 virgins would be prepared, 5 would not.
The book with the 7 seals in Revelation 5 and 6 is not the Lamb's book of life.
 

ewq1938

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Do you see the words "Woe to the inhabiters of the earth" in Revelation 12:12 ?

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.


The word "woe" doesn't automatically mean one of the 3 woe trumpets. The 7th trump cannot happen in Rev 12 because the GT hasn't started in Rev 12. The 7th trump sounds when the GT is over, found in Rev 11 which are events that take place AFTER the events of Rev 12-13.
 

Douggg

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The word "woe" doesn't automatically mean one of the 3 woe trumpets.
It is not just the word woe by itself. Do you also see the words " to the inhabiters of the earth" ?

Do you see the words "Woe to the inhabiters of the earth" in Revelation 12:12 ?


12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Do you see the words "" to the inhabiters of the earth" in Revelation 8:13 ?

13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!
 

ewq1938

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It is not just the word woe by itself. Do you also see the words " to the inhabiters of the earth" ?

Do you see the words "Woe to the inhabiters of the earth" in Revelation 12:12 ?


12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Do you see the words "" to the inhabiters of the earth" in Revelation 8:13 ?

13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!


Some of the same words are used but that hardly proves the same context and timeframe. You have ignored the fact that all kingdoms are ruled by Christ at the 7th trump so it is impossible for the beast to rule anywhere for another 42 months nor do any of the things he does in chps like Rev 13. He couldn't do any of those things if the 7th trump had sounded.
 

Davy

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What are the three woes ?

5th trumpet - the flesh tormenting locust.
6th trumpet - 1/3 of mankind killed by the massive army
7th trumpet - Satan cast down to earth having great wrath, a time/times/half time - coinciding with the 42 months of the beast-king's reign.
That sounds like you pulled that directly from some silly paperback book that some deceiver wrote. It is so... far out away from the actual Bible Scripture that I can hardly think you are only Biblically illiterate in doing that, but instead do that on purpose. Who are you?
 

Douggg

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Some of the same words are used but that hardly proves the same context and timeframe.
Those words in Revelation 12:12 are specific to the third woe, so that it can't be missed as the third woe.

The fifth trumpet text of Revelation 9 and the sixth trumpet text of Revelation 9 - neither is called a "woe", nor "to the inhabiters of the earth." Yet, they are both said to be woes to the inhabiters of the earth in Revelation 8:13. So the emphasis of the wording in Revelation 12:12 makes it clear what the third woe to the inhabiters of the earth is.

The 5th and 6th trumpet fit within the time, times, half time of the 7th trumpet third woe. When Satan and his angels are cast down to earth in Revelation 12:12, Satan is the falling star in Revelation 9:1.



thrid woe span2b.jpg


You have ignored the fact that all kingdoms are ruled by Christ at the 7th trump so it is impossible for the beast to rule anywhere for another 42 months nor do any of the things he does in chps like Rev 13. He couldn't do any of those things if the 7th trump had sounded
No, you have misunderstood the text. "are become" is indicating a process of taking the kingdoms of this world away from Satan and his angels interference in the affairs of man. That process begins with Satan and his angels cast down to earth, and ends a time, times, half time later, coinciding wit the 42 months of the beast kings rule.

At the end of that period, the beast king will be cast alive into the lake of fire. And Satan into the bottomless pit.




the bema seat of Christ 3.jpg
 
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Douggg

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That sounds like you pulled that directly from some silly paperback book that some deceiver wrote. It is so... far out away from the actual Bible Scripture that I can hardly think you are only Biblically illiterate in doing that, but instead do that on purpose. Who are you?
The three woes are on this diagram of the second half of the 7 years. Start at the top, the beginning of the second half, and follow the events down to the bottom near the very end of the years.


Revelation 5 small.jpg
 

Timtofly

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The book with the 7 seals in Revelation 5 and 6 is not the Lamb's book of life.
Of course it is. It is the only book mentioned by name in the book of Revelation.

Why would the Lamb be the only one worthy to open the Lamb's book of Life, if you think there was another book only the Lamb could unseal? The point of unsealing the Lamb's book of life, is so Jesus can sit in judgment and start removing those from the Book who will now stand in Judgment before Him. This book later referred to as the Lamb's book of life, is the entire embodiment of the Atonement Covenant. It is the written and sealed Covenant, that is confirmed during the days of the 7th Trumpet.

Matthew 25:31-32

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:"

This is exactly what happens in the 6th Seal, and when the 7th Seal is opened, names will be removed as the goats are tossed into the LOF.

It says right there "as a shepherd" meaning He was the redeemer of all, but now those who rejected Him will be judged for that rejection. Yet out of mercy, Jesus still saves a remnant, but no one knows who is who standing in judgment per this chapter. Both the sheep and goats had to ask why they were chosen or not chosen.

I know you are not Amil who states this is the GWT Judgment event after the Millennial Kingdom. You are not allowing this to happen during Jacob's Trouble of the first 6 Trumpets, either. This is not something that happens in Revelation 20. These are not dead people. These are those removed from the earth in the period of time, called the final harvest.

You whole "left behind what will we do during some AC one world government" is at odds with Jesus also being on the earth at this time, even though you think that is what Matthew wrote in chapter 24. Most interpretations want to change Revelation all around to fit the Olivet narrative. When the Olivet Discourse is given in reverse order. Because Revelation is in reverse order of the Olivet Discourse.

Then people want to change the whole narrative of Revelation to fit their individual opinions. So you have thousands of variations because thousands of humans have had their opinion on the end times, starting with the Reformation.
 

Timtofly

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Some of the same words are used but that hardly proves the same context and timeframe. You have ignored the fact that all kingdoms are ruled by Christ at the 7th trump so it is impossible for the beast to rule anywhere for another 42 months nor do any of the things he does in chps like Rev 13. He couldn't do any of those things if the 7th trump had sounded.
Actually he can because that is what Daniel 9:27 is referring to is the days of the 7th Trumpet.

Satan's 6th kingdom is not divided nor replaced with the 8th kingdom. The 8th kingdom splits the 7th Kingdom into two halves. 3.5 days after Jesus is pronounced King, God may allow Satan to have 42 months in the midst of that week. But that decision is not set in stone, because that decision is prophecied as the worse case scenario, not the only case scenario.

Think about Jonah. Jonah never said God is not going to destroy the city in 40 days. Prophecy is the worst case scenario. Jonah was a liar, because God never destroyed Nineveh in 40 days, if you are going by what Jonah actually told them:

"And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown."

Revelation gives us the worse case scenario.
 

Douggg

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Of course it is. It is the only book mentioned by name in the book of Revelation.
No, in Revelation 5-6, that book is not referred to as the Lamb's book of life.

There are six places in Revelation the Lamb's book of life is referred to.

1. in Revelation 3:5
2. in Revelation 13:8
3. in Revelation 17:8
4. in Revelation 20:12. Revelation 20:15
5. in Revelation 21:27
6. in Revelation 22:19
 

ewq1938

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Those words in Revelation 12:12 are specific to the third woe, so that it can't be missed as the third woe.

Nope. The 7th trump/3rd woe comes after the GT is over while the verse you cite in Rev 12 is before the GT.


When Satan and his angels are cast down to earth in Revelation 12:12, Satan is the falling star in Revelation 9:1.


That's the 5th trump but you have been claiming satan is cast from heaven at the 7th trump. Your exegesis is full of holes and contradictions like this.
 

Douggg

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Nope. The 7th trump/3rd woe comes after the GT is over while the verse you cite in Rev 12 is before the GT.
All 7 trumpets are part of the great tribulation.

Revelation 12:12 takes place after the great tribulation has already begun.



3rd woe.jpg
 
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