The deep danger of politicizing Christianity. It simply reveals our deep need for revival.

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Enoch111

Well-Known Member
May 27, 2018
17,688
15,996
113
Alberta
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
He told Peter to put away his sword, for those who live by the sword also die by the sword!
Christians need to be extremely careful to interpret Scripture in its proper context. Unless that is done it simply leads to spiritual confusion.

1. Why did Christ tell Peter to put away his sword? Because Peter was trying to defend Christ against His enemies, even though the Lord Himself had fully determined to hand Himself over without resistance (Jn 18:11). That was a part of the plan of salvation, since Christ would be numbered with the transgressors.

2. At the same time, why did the Lord advise His disciples to purchase swords (Lk 22:36)? Because without Christ in their midst, and while traveling with the Gospel, they would need to defend themselves against thieves, robbers, and bandits. Self-defense is not condemned in the Bible.

3. Why did Christ also say that those who take the sword (for the sake of bloodshed or warfare) will perish with the sword (Mt 26:52)?. Because (a) those who resort to violence and murder for their own selfish reasons are subject to the sword of the executioner and (b) those who become soldiers and use swords (or weapons of any kind) may will find themselves killed by a sword (or a grenade).

4. At the same time why did Christ says that He had come to bring a sword upon the earth (Mt 10:34)? Here the Lord used the word "sword" as a metaphor for cutting off or cutting away, i.e. separating people from each other. The Gospel itself brings division in that a few will believe and many will not. Furthermore those who do not believe become enemies and haters of those who do believe. It divides parents from children, brothers from sisters, etc .Thus Christians are persecuted and killed worldwide, and in Islamic countries a profession of faith in Christ is automatically a death sentence.

5. Finally why did the Holy Spirit tell Paul to inform Christians that they must be law-abiding citizens or face the executioner's sword (Rom 13:4)? Because high crimes and heinous crimes are (or were) punishable by death. And this brings us to issue of massive fraud and the illegal and illegitimate promotion of a criminal politician -- Joe Biden -- to the highest office in the land.

Under *normal* circumstances -- or under traditional laws where justice is meted out properly -- both Joe and Hunter Biden belong in prison. And since they have both colluded with the enemy (China) to undermine the interests of the United States, while profiting thereby, they have also committed treason. And treason is punishable by either imprisonment or death.

What this post is meant to show is that there are various applications of the sword in Scripture -- some of which are fully approved by God. Therefore for Christians to cry "Foul" when ordinary justice demands execution means that Christians are failing to understand the mind of God or even Scripture.
 

Ronald Nolette

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2020
12,705
3,774
113
69
South Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Christians need to be extremely careful to interpret Scripture in its proper context. Unless that is done it simply leads to spiritual confusion.

1. Why did Christ tell Peter to put away his sword? Because Peter was trying to defend Christ against His enemies, even though the Lord Himself had fully determined to hand Himself over without resistance (Jn 18:11). That was a part of the plan of salvation, since Christ would be numbered with the transgressors.

2. At the same time, why did the Lord advise His disciples to purchase swords (Lk 22:36)? Because without Christ in their midst, and while traveling with the Gospel, they would need to defend themselves against thieves, robbers, and bandits. Self-defense is not condemned in the Bible.

3. Why did Christ also say that those who take the sword (for the sake of bloodshed or warfare) will perish with the sword (Mt 26:52)?. Because (a) those who resort to violence and murder for their own selfish reasons are subject to the sword of the executioner and (b) those who become soldiers and use swords (or weapons of any kind) may will find themselves killed by a sword (or a grenade).

4. At the same time why did Christ says that He had come to bring a sword upon the earth (Mt 10:34)? Here the Lord used the word "sword" as a metaphor for cutting off or cutting away, i.e. separating people from each other. The Gospel itself brings division in that a few will believe and many will not. Furthermore those who do not believe become enemies and haters of those who do believe. It divides parents from children, brothers from sisters, etc .Thus Christians are persecuted and killed worldwide, and in Islamic countries a profession of faith in Christ is automatically a death sentence.

5. Finally why did the Holy Spirit tell Paul to inform Christians that they must be law-abiding citizens or face the executioner's sword (Rom 13:4)? Because high crimes and heinous crimes are (or were) punishable by death. And this brings us to issue of massive fraud and the illegal and illegitimate promotion of a criminal politician -- Joe Biden -- to the highest office in the land.

Under *normal* circumstances -- or under traditional laws where justice is meted out properly -- both Joe and Hunter Biden belong in prison. And since they have both colluded with the enemy (China) to undermine the interests of the United States, while profiting thereby, they have also committed treason. And treason is punishable by either imprisonment or death.

What this post is meant to show is that there are various applications of the sword in Scripture -- some of which are fully approved by God. Therefore for Christians to cry "Foul" when ordinary justice demands execution means that Christians are failing to understand the mind of God or even Scripture.

Well I know there is but one interpretation of Scripture, but we can glean many applications from a passage.

I fully believe in the death penalty as God set forth- for cold blooded murder. The rest are decisions of govt. We should not be afraid to face a death penalty as Paul did, even if it is for a nonbiblical reason . Like in Pauls days not acknowledging Cesar as Lord was a nonbiblical death penalty, but one which our brethren gladly submitted to versus declaring Cesar as Lord instead of Jesus.
 

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
33,545
21,653
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Okay Simon Zealotes! But I do not think that is the answer Jesus wishes for his people to do. He told Peter to put away his sword, for those who live by the sword also die by the sword!

I am not looking forward to the next administration on a human level. it is going to mean grave and dangerous changes to teh nation the Lord has placed me as an ambassador in. It can also mean persecutions of believers could (that is a maybe) begin here. No one I know longs for pain or hardship. but our god is still on the throne and we can use this as an opportunity to love the brethren more so that the lost can see we are Jesus' disciples and maybe make some of them hunger for what we have!

If we respond like th eword does when things do not go our way- why should they want Jesus if we act like them and get ornery just like them?
My only concern is that I don't want to be separated from my wife, she really needs me. Otherwise, I hope for peace, but who knows what's coming? It could be rough, maybe not, Jesus has this, and I can enjoy today. Whatever happens, God loves us!

Much love!
 

Gideons300

Well-Known Member
Nov 3, 2020
357
445
63
Maryville, Tn.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I began this post with a deep sorrow for what I was seeing as far as growing attitudes within the body of Christ. After 14 pages of replies, my sorrow has only deepened and my concern for our current state is even more grave than before.

I am neither Democrat or Republican. But what the current president, a man who has no moral compass, a man who is the classic definition of a narcissist, has done is truly terrifying. He has been the author of 1000 lies and conspiracy theories and by repeating 'fake news' and doubling down on his lies even when caught in his lies, he has muddied the waters so thoroughly that truth has become 'opinion', even to Christians. Do we honestly think he cares a rip about abortion, or even the nation of Israel? They are nothing but vote "click bait" to him

And we now see this split beginning to occur in the church itself, with sides being taken, to the point that any who do not fully agree are labelled the enemy. This should bother us greatly.

The church has, ever since the death of Paul when the wolves entered the flock, been a mixture of wheat and tares, growing together, And this was God's plan till the end when the last days were in sight. But God has told us that there would be a last days awakening and a subsequent separation of wheat and tares, sheep and goats. I thoroughly believe we are seeing the beginnings of this split come to the surface.

God is looking for a people who are sojourners, people who are Heavenly minded, whose eyes are fixed on Him alone as our solution. His will for us is that we see ourselves as a people who do not get so involved with the affairs of this world system, because at its core, it is ALL corrupt. Both sides. ALL.

Yet, in post after post here, I have seen people regurgitating right wing conspiracy theories as if they are backed by facts when even Republican officials and Republican-led courts have stated again and again that there is simply no evidence of widespread systematic election fraud. Now, these posters are saying the supreme court is corrupt, because it did not agree with Trump's conspiracy theories. I guess we need to 'lock them up' too, which is ironic since 6 of the 9 are Republicans and three are actually Trump appointees. That is how badly the craziness has become.

Trump has indoctrinated his followers into thinking anything not lining up with his narrative is false and evil and has spread lies upon lies, and many in the church have become supporters of this. Do not read into this that I am supporting Democrats. I hate abortion. Hate it.

But this has been the rallying cry for many here, and several unnamed popsters have suggested it is time for physical violence. Yet, if I were a betting man, I would say not one is out protesting at abortion clinics. Far easier to spew anger and judgements backed by no concrete evidence.... armchair rebels. proof

So now, several here have clearly stated it is time for war with Democrats, with the American political system, to bring about civil war, to really bring hell on earth about for millions who simply want peace so they can provide for their children. many of whom think abortion is evil? Why not just bomb the abortion clinics or attack the physicians or nurses? If these posters felt strongly about the issue, should they not do more than blustering and threatening and spewing false narratives?

This is not an attack against those opposing abortion. It is not an attack against Republicans, though it may seem so. It is a warning against letting hatred get a hold of our hearts. The spirit of the world that has laid dormant in the church for centuries, as His own have tried to live with one foot in each kingdom. And as long as civility reigned, things appeared fine.... on the surface.

But we are entering into a different time, and the spirit that has laid dormant, undetected, for 1900 years, is now blossoming into real tangible evil.... inside our church walls, in the hearts of men, and there will be a time approaching when we are going to have choose to stand up and decide whom we will serve, the spirit of the world or the Spirit of God. The Bible calls it "coming out from among them and being separate". We are going to have to face up to the truth that the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God and choose God over EVERYTHING ELSE.

As concerning as it is that a few posters are espousing violence as a viable solution is the fact that there have been very few posts questioning this avenue of thought. Look. Evil days are coming. If we think what we are seeing now is bad, we are in for a rude awakening. It is time for us to seek God's face and to lay ourselves on the alter, including our political leanings and our nationalistic pride. ALL must be surrendered to Him. To those who do so, God has a walk for you that will blow your minds and fill you with joy, even with the persecutions that are coning.

But a warning must also be sounded. Satan is going to succeed in grabbing many who are part of the church and use them for his purposes, which is to bring chaos, tears, fear and great suffering. Why? Because this social upheaval will lead to a world situation so bad, so precarious, that the peoples of this earth on BOTH sides of the divide we see happening will bow before anyone who can restore order, and satan has just the man for the job, amen?

I pray all who read these words and think I am being judgmental or overreacting to this think on this. This 'great divide' in the church is going to become so severe that there will be those IN the church system who will think they are doing God a service by killing other believers who do not line up with them ideologically. That, guys, is great deception, and it is coming.

It is time to seek God's face for how to get the evil..... our old fallen nature, our of us. God has a way, but we must see a need for it. May God open our eyes.

blessings,

Gideon

P.S. I am sure there will be venomous posts following this. I have said my piece and now will let it lay. Post as you see fit. Disagreeing is fine, as long as we do it with patience and kindness.

No response of mine at this point will change anyones mind. But I am praying that God opens eyes and hearts, and if you find yourself agreeing with what I have written, please join me in prayer forcall of us to walk in wisdom and to seek the face of God.
 
Last edited:

GTW27

Well-Known Member
Dec 6, 2018
871
1,229
93
wilderness
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I began this post with a deep sorrow for what I was seeing as far as growing attitudes within the body of Christ. After 14 pages of replies, my sorrow has only deepened and my concern for our current state is even more grave than before.

I am neither Democrat or Republican. But what the current president, a man who has no moral compass, a man who is the classic definition of a narcissist, has done is truly terrifying. He has been the author of 1000 lies and conspiracy theories and by repeating 'fake news' and doubling down on his lies even when caught in his lies, he has muddied the waters so thoroughly that truth has become 'opinion', even to Christians. Do we honestly think he cares a rip about abortion, or even the nation of Israel? They are nothing but vote "click bait" to him

And we now see this split beginning to occur in the church itself, with sides being taken, to the point that any who do not fully agree are labelled the enemy. This should bother us greatly.

The church has, ever since the death of Paul when the wolves entered the flock, been a mixture of wheat and tares, growing together, And this was God's plan till the end when the last days were in sight. But God has told us that there would be a last days awakening and a subsequent separation of wheat and tares, sheep and goats. I thoroughly believe we are seeing the beginnings of this split come to the surface.

God is looking for a people who are sojourners, people who are Heavenly minded, whose eyes are fixed on Him alone as our solution. His will for us is that we see ourselves as a people who do not get so involved with the affairs of this world system, because at its core, it is ALL corrupt. Both sides. ALL.

Yet, in post after post here, I have seen people regurgitating right wing conspiracy theories as if they are backed by facts when even Republican officials and Republican-led courts have stated again and again that there is simply no evidence of widespread systematic election fraud. Now, these posters are saying the supreme court is corrupt, because it did not agree with Trump's conspiracy theories. I guess we need to 'lock them up' too, which is ironic since 6 of the 9 are Republicans and three are actually Trump appointees. That is how badly the craziness has become.

Trump has indoctrinated his followers into thinking anything not lining up with his narrative is false and evil and has spread lies upon lies, and many in the church have become supporters of this. Do not read into this that I am supporting Democrats. I hate abortion. Hate it.

But this has been the rallying cry for many here, and several unnamed popsters have suggested it is time for physical violence. Yet, if I were a betting man, I would say not one is out protesting at abortion clinics. Far easier to spew anger and judgements backed by no concrete evidence.... armchair rebels. proof

So now, several here have clearly stated it is time for war with Democrats, with the American political system, to bring about civil war, to really bring hell on earth about for millions who simply want peace so they can provide for their children. many of whom think abortion is evil? Why not just bomb the abortion clinics or attack the physicians or nurses? If these posters felt strongly about the issue, should they not do more than blustering and threatening and spewing false narratives?

This is not an attack against those opposing abortion. It is not an attack against Republicans, though it may seem so. It is a warning against letting hatred get a hold of our hearts. The spirit of the world that has laid dormant in the church for centuries, as His own have tried to live with one foot in each kingdom. And as long as civility reigned, things appeared fine.... on the surface.

But we are entering into a different time, and the spirit that has laid dormant, undetected, for 1900 years, is now blossoming into real tangible evil.... inside our church walls, in the hearts of men, and there will be a time approaching when we are going to have choose to stand up and decide whom we will serve, the spirit of the world or the Spirit of God. The Bible calls it "coming out from among them and being separate". We are going to have to face up to the truth that the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God and choose God over EVERYTHING ELSE.

As concerning as it is that a few posters are espousing violence as a viable solution is the fact that there have been very few posts questioning this avenue of thought. Look. Evil days are coming. If we think what we are seeing now is bad, we are in for a rude awakening. It is time for us to seek God's face and to lay ourselves on the alter, including our political leanings and our nationalistic pride. ALL must be surrendered to Him. To those who do so, God has a walk for you that will blow your minds and fill you with joy, even with the persecutions that are coning.

But a warning must also be sounded. Satan is going to succeed in grabbing many who are part of the church and use them for his purposes, which is to bring chaos, tears, fear and great suffering. Why? Because this social upheaval will lead to a world situation so bad, so precarious, that the peoples of this earth on BOTH sides of the divide we see happening will bow before anyone who can restore order, and satan has just the man for the job, amen?

I pray all who read these words and think I am being judgmental or overreacting to this think on this. This 'great divide' in the church is going to become so severe that there will be those IN the church system who will think they are doing God a service by killing other believers who do not line up with them ideologically. That, guys, is great deception, and it is coming.

It is time to seek God's face for how to get the evil..... our old fallen nature, our of us. God has a way, but we must see a need for it. May God open our eyes.

blessings,

Gideon

P.S. I am sure there will be venomous posts following this. I have said my piece and now will let it lay. Post as you see fit. Disagreeing is fine, as long as we do it with patience and kindness.

No response of mine at this point will change anyones mind. But I am praying that God opens eyes and hearts, and if you find yourself agreeing with what I have written, please join me in prayer forcall of us to walk in wisdom and to seek the face of God.

Blessings in Christ Jesus! Last time was a reproving. This time is for understanding. And there is nothing venomous here. Long ago when I was listening to an argument for once saved, always saved verses you can lose your salvation, The lord spoke and said, "these are not the right questions, the question should be, are you saved?"Back then I did not know what that meant but today it is crystal clear.As we grow in Him, and Him in us, the Light shines brighter and brighter. I consider myself the least worthy of the measure of grace I have been given. The things you have spoken about over the years, how we can be overcomers in Christ Jesus, I have, as I have Him and He has me. And this is His doing and His good pleasure to do it. I am one who does walk in The Spirit, and preaches in The Spirit, as The Lord wills. He has also given me eyes to see and ears to hear. All I need is to have faith that He will provide and He does as He is faithful. And then there are the spiritual gifts. All of this is Him in us and us in Him as One (John17). It has been said that The Lord knows those that are His, and this is true. For all that are truly His, have both The Father and The Son in the form of The Holy Spirit indwelling them. These are the ones that are truly born again(from above) and these are the ones that will be His special possesion on that Day. These are the ones that have truly believed and have made Him Lord and Savior. All the things that you have judged concerning the church can not be found in them, because He is there, as He promised He would be. And He is not leaving them. I have found that in the world that many profess to be Christian. When I am out there walking in the flesh and I come across another True Christian, one that is truly born from above(The Holy Spirit within them) I instantly go into walking in The Spirit. From walking in the flesh to walking in The Spirit. My contenance instantly changes(glowing) and am filled with all joy and peace. This is The Spirit bearing witness to The Spirit. We could be strangers and yet we are One.(john 17.) On the other hand there are many I come across that profess to be Christian, and yet I remain in the flesh standing before them. In other words,"not so." I have also found that out there there is only a handful out of 100 that truly are. The same applies in here, in this very forum. The words that people write(type) either have Him(AS One) or they do not. As I said, when He enters in, He will not leave. Eternal life is Eternal life. The Lord in His infinite wisdom, when He was lifted up gave Gifts onto man. So when you see all that is happening around you, in here, and in this country(the politics), know that they can not help what they do, they are only following their father, and many do not know it. And to those, in here, the handful plus a couple more, could we really walk away from a Love such as this? So there it is Gids, layed down, something to consider. And no, you are not my enemy, so take the words spoken to you before for what they are. I too long ago, had the page turned(from old to new), from works(what we must do) to entering His rest. Once a person enters His rest, they will find that their Father is always working.(In and through them). So it was for Jesus, so it can be for us.
 

Addy

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2020
4,288
4,467
113
61
Ontario
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Blessings in Christ Jesus! Last time was a reproving. This time is for understanding. And there is nothing venomous here. Long ago when I was listening to an argument for once saved, always saved verses you can lose your salvation, The lord spoke and said, "these are not the right questions, the question should be, are you saved?"Back then I did not know what that meant but today it is crystal clear.As we grow in Him, and Him in us, the Light shines brighter and brighter. I consider myself the least worthy of the measure of grace I have been given. The things you have spoken about over the years, how we can be overcomers in Christ Jesus, I have, as I have Him and He has me. And this is His doing and His good pleasure to do it. I am one who does walk in The Spirit, and preaches in The Spirit, as The Lord wills. He has also given me eyes to see and ears to hear. All I need is to have faith that He will provide and He does as He is faithful. And then there are the spiritual gifts. All of this is Him in us and us in Him as One (John17). It has been said that The Lord knows those that are His, and this is true. For all that are truly His, have both The Father and The Son in the form of The Holy Spirit indwelling them. These are the ones that are truly born again(from above) and these are the ones that will be His special possesion on that Day. These are the ones that have truly believed and have made Him Lord and Savior. All the things that you have judged concerning the church can not be found in them, because He is there, as He promised He would be. And He is not leaving them. I have found that in the world that many profess to be Christian. When I am out there walking in the flesh and I come across another True Christian, one that is truly born from above(The Holy Spirit within them) I instantly go into walking in The Spirit. From walking in the flesh to walking in The Spirit. My contenance instantly changes(glowing) and am filled with all joy and peace. This is The Spirit bearing witness to The Spirit. We could be strangers and yet we are One.(john 17.) On the other hand there are many I come across that profess to be Christian, and yet I remain in the flesh standing before them. In other words,"not so." I have also found that out there there is only a handful out of 100 that truly are. The same applies in here, in this very forum. The words that people write(type) either have Him(AS One) or they do not. As I said, when He enters in, He will not leave. Eternal life is Eternal life. The Lord in His infinite wisdom, when He was lifted up gave Gifts onto man. So when you see all that is happening around you, in here, and in this country(the politics), know that they can not help what they do, they are only following their father, and many do not know it. And to those, in here, the handful plus a couple more, could we really walk away from a Love such as this? So there it is Gids, layed down, something to consider. And no, you are not my enemy, so take the words spoken to you before for what they are. I too long ago, had the page turned(from old to new), from works(what we must do) to entering His rest. Once a person enters His rest, they will find that their Father is always working.(In and through them). So it was for Jesus, so it can be for us.

I SO wish I could hug you right now.... THIS is BRILLIANT!!!!
 

Ronald Nolette

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2020
12,705
3,774
113
69
South Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
My only concern is that I don't want to be separated from my wife, she really needs me. Otherwise, I hope for peace, but who knows what's coming? It could be rough, maybe not, Jesus has this, and I can enjoy today. Whatever happens, God loves us!

Much love!


Marks fear not!

god does not give us grace to endure hardships until we need that grace. so if there is "bad things" down the road for you- when the time comes God will give you grace, not only to endure, but to overcome.

Remember after Paul and silas were given the Roman 39 lashes and thrown into a cave dungeon- they were able to sing Psalms! I ma sure they were in excruciatin gphysical pain, but joyful internally.
 

Addy

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2020
4,288
4,467
113
61
Ontario
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
I pray all who read these words and think I am being judgmental or overreacting to this think on this. This 'great divide' in the church is going to become so severe that there will be those IN the church system who will think they are doing God a service by killing other believers who do not line up with them ideologically. That, guys, is great deception, and it is coming.

Well... My Dear Gideon ( and I mean that tenderly )

What you have described here in your last posting is a totally different subject than our differing views on legalism and judgement... I hope you take the time to read and digest what @GTW27 has written to you as it so beautifully reflects the truth of RESTING in HIM... Truly... our concern should be... AM I SAVED? And from that position... we are given such liberty to love others where they are at... allowing God to work with each individual as they are ready and allow Him to... all the while being able to know and believe that JESUS has it covered. It's a life-long process my dear brother.

I feel your pain Gideon... and with the topic of this election... the "prophets" declaring that it's NOT over and just KEEP PRAYING and FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT... with the absolute possibility of a civil war in your country..... YES!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is urgent... and YES this is serious!!!!!!
and all the more reason for us to be STILL and petition the heart of GOD for HIS mercy, grace and forgiveness... America needs to be humbled... and that is a painful lesson... which I am not certain many will take heed to... or accept... sadly... this will include a great many believers.

Have you thought that perhaps what is happening is actually the beginning of a NEW CHURCH... of a TRUE CHURCH?
For years.... the Word of Faith/Prosperity Movement has over taken the nation of America.... and it has done MUCH DAMAGE to CHRISTIANITY.
I truly believe that although these are difficult times... that GOD is very much in control...and He's definitely up to something... but it may not be what people are thinking... believing or seeing. I encourage you to be of good cheer my brother... BE still and KNOW that HE is God.

Tenderly... Addy
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Ronald Nolette

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2020
12,705
3,774
113
69
South Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I began this post with a deep sorrow for what I was seeing as far as growing attitudes within the body of Christ. After 14 pages of replies, my sorrow has only deepened and my concern for our current state is even more grave than before.

I am neither Democrat or Republican. But what the current president, a man who has no moral compass, a man who is the classic definition of a narcissist, has done is truly terrifying. He has been the author of 1000 lies and conspiracy theories and by repeating 'fake news' and doubling down on his lies even when caught in his lies, he has muddied the waters so thoroughly that truth has become 'opinion', even to Christians. Do we honestly think he cares a rip about abortion, or even the nation of Israel? They are nothing but vote "click bait" to him

And we now see this split beginning to occur in the church itself, with sides being taken, to the point that any who do not fully agree are labelled the enemy. This should bother us greatly.

The church has, ever since the death of Paul when the wolves entered the flock, been a mixture of wheat and tares, growing together, And this was God's plan till the end when the last days were in sight. But God has told us that there would be a last days awakening and a subsequent separation of wheat and tares, sheep and goats. I thoroughly believe we are seeing the beginnings of this split come to the surface.

God is looking for a people who are sojourners, people who are Heavenly minded, whose eyes are fixed on Him alone as our solution. His will for us is that we see ourselves as a people who do not get so involved with the affairs of this world system, because at its core, it is ALL corrupt. Both sides. ALL.

Yet, in post after post here, I have seen people regurgitating right wing conspiracy theories as if they are backed by facts when even Republican officials and Republican-led courts have stated again and again that there is simply no evidence of widespread systematic election fraud. Now, these posters are saying the supreme court is corrupt, because it did not agree with Trump's conspiracy theories. I guess we need to 'lock them up' too, which is ironic since 6 of the 9 are Republicans and three are actually Trump appointees. That is how badly the craziness has become.

Trump has indoctrinated his followers into thinking anything not lining up with his narrative is false and evil and has spread lies upon lies, and many in the church have become supporters of this. Do not read into this that I am supporting Democrats. I hate abortion. Hate it.

But this has been the rallying cry for many here, and several unnamed popsters have suggested it is time for physical violence. Yet, if I were a betting man, I would say not one is out protesting at abortion clinics. Far easier to spew anger and judgements backed by no concrete evidence.... armchair rebels. proof

So now, several here have clearly stated it is time for war with Democrats, with the American political system, to bring about civil war, to really bring hell on earth about for millions who simply want peace so they can provide for their children. many of whom think abortion is evil? Why not just bomb the abortion clinics or attack the physicians or nurses? If these posters felt strongly about the issue, should they not do more than blustering and threatening and spewing false narratives?

This is not an attack against those opposing abortion. It is not an attack against Republicans, though it may seem so. It is a warning against letting hatred get a hold of our hearts. The spirit of the world that has laid dormant in the church for centuries, as His own have tried to live with one foot in each kingdom. And as long as civility reigned, things appeared fine.... on the surface.

But we are entering into a different time, and the spirit that has laid dormant, undetected, for 1900 years, is now blossoming into real tangible evil.... inside our church walls, in the hearts of men, and there will be a time approaching when we are going to have choose to stand up and decide whom we will serve, the spirit of the world or the Spirit of God. The Bible calls it "coming out from among them and being separate". We are going to have to face up to the truth that the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God and choose God over EVERYTHING ELSE.

As concerning as it is that a few posters are espousing violence as a viable solution is the fact that there have been very few posts questioning this avenue of thought. Look. Evil days are coming. If we think what we are seeing now is bad, we are in for a rude awakening. It is time for us to seek God's face and to lay ourselves on the alter, including our political leanings and our nationalistic pride. ALL must be surrendered to Him. To those who do so, God has a walk for you that will blow your minds and fill you with joy, even with the persecutions that are coning.

But a warning must also be sounded. Satan is going to succeed in grabbing many who are part of the church and use them for his purposes, which is to bring chaos, tears, fear and great suffering. Why? Because this social upheaval will lead to a world situation so bad, so precarious, that the peoples of this earth on BOTH sides of the divide we see happening will bow before anyone who can restore order, and satan has just the man for the job, amen?

I pray all who read these words and think I am being judgmental or overreacting to this think on this. This 'great divide' in the church is going to become so severe that there will be those IN the church system who will think they are doing God a service by killing other believers who do not line up with them ideologically. That, guys, is great deception, and it is coming.

It is time to seek God's face for how to get the evil..... our old fallen nature, our of us. God has a way, but we must see a need for it. May God open our eyes.

blessings,

Gideon

P.S. I am sure there will be venomous posts following this. I have said my piece and now will let it lay. Post as you see fit. Disagreeing is fine, as long as we do it with patience and kindness.

No response of mine at this point will change anyones mind. But I am praying that God opens eyes and hearts, and if you find yourself agreeing with what I have written, please join me in prayer forcall of us to walk in wisdom and to seek the face of God.


You spoke of people speaking with hatred, yet you wrote with venom against Trump!

Trump is a narcissist. As a board certified counselor I am pretty sure it comes from insecurity and not an over inflated ego. He doies display many of the standard tell tale signs of insecurity.

Trump did much good for this nation. As for most of the media being fake news? He was saying what most people knew for a long time. Even the media itself has openly and proudly declared it has a very left wing bias. They have continously downplayed conservatives have done well or even ifgnored them.

Just look at this news concerning Hunter and Joe Biden! Trump was impeached for far less empirical evidence of any malfeasance, and yet all the major media (excluding fox) have defoted a combined total of less than 30 minutes since this rocking scandal broke that does invovle the president elect!

How much praise have you heard from the major media for Trump pushing hard to get these vaccines up and running?
Did you hear that Trump was ahead of Fauci in pushing for masks and ramping up production of PPE when it was discovered the national stockpile was nearly depleted or rotting?

Trump was the first POTUS to attend the pro life rally in January.

Trump was the president who declared Jeruslam Israels capital and moved our embassy there.

Trump negotiated with Israel six peace treaties with their neighbors. who got the Nobel Peace Prize? Biden and Kamala. For what???

NO my brother I would never vote Trump to be a pastor but asa president he has done good for this nation we are ambassadors to. He exposed the corruption hat is D.C. and the general media and paid dearly for doing so.

Amnd you should tread carefully when Trump bashing. According to Franklin Graham, He prayed with Him to trust Christ as His Savior Whether it was of faith or not- I leave to God, but bashing HIm may be bashing a brother! Did you pray for Him as POTUS that He would seeks Gods wisdom?

Now I know that this nation will fall under the spell of the antichrist like all other nations on earth, but that doesn't mean I want to see it collapse now.
 

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
33,545
21,653
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Marks fear not!

god does not give us grace to endure hardships until we need that grace. so if there is "bad things" down the road for you- when the time comes God will give you grace, not only to endure, but to overcome.

Remember after Paul and silas were given the Roman 39 lashes and thrown into a cave dungeon- they were able to sing Psalms! I ma sure they were in excruciatin gphysical pain, but joyful internally.
Amen! I've learned this in my life. It seemed the greater the pain, the more my heart opened to receive God's love. These were among the stranges times in my life!

I have a great concern for my wife, but I know that if God takes me from Her is will be because He is going to reveal Himself to her through it.

I don't fear for myself. There is great work ahead, no matter what is coming!

Much love!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ronald Nolette

Addy

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2020
4,288
4,467
113
61
Ontario
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Trump is a narcissist. As a board certified counselor I am pretty sure it comes from insecurity and not an over inflated ego. He doies display many of the standard tell tale signs of insecurity.

This is very interesting as I would have thought the other.
 

Addy

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2020
4,288
4,467
113
61
Ontario
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
On February 29, 1892, The Supreme Court declared (in Holy Trinity v. United States) that the historical record of America overwhelmingly demonstrated that the United States “… is a Christian nation.” Contrary to this historical and legal record, judges throughout the end of the twentieth and beginning of the twenty-first centuries have repeatedly ruled against the place that Christianity has enjoyed in American life. Rather than render decisions consistent with the legal foundation of America, activist judges have taken it upon themselves to attempt to establish a new foundation for American law—that being the subjective opinions of liberal activist judges. Thousands of pieces of evidence exist that demonstrate that America was founded as a Christian nation, and Holy Trinity v. United States is only one of the many pieces of that mosaic of historical truth.

Ironically.... I created a new post this morning... I will copy and paste...

On July 4, 1776, Founding Fathers wrote the United States Declaration of Independence.
Twenty years later... The Government of America is already denying and denouncing its existence as a Christian nation. I found this very interesting.


The Treaty of Tripoli (Treaty of Peace and Friendship between the United States of America and the Bey and Subjects of Tripoli of Barbary) was signed in 1796. It was the first treaty between the United States of America and Tripoli (now Libya) to secure commercial shipping rights and protect American ships in the Mediterranean Sea from local Barbary pirates.

Treaty of Tripoli Article 11

Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen (Muslims); and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan (Mohammedan) nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries. This treaty was signed by John Adams.
( source Wikipedia )

My question then is on WHAT basis do people believe that United States is a CHRISTIAN NATION? This is not a mocking or fishing question... It's an honest one... Why do so many Christians consider America a Christian nation?
 

Ronald Nolette

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2020
12,705
3,774
113
69
South Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
This is very interesting as I would have thought the other.

Well He does express the signs that it is not just an over inflated ego, but has deep seated insecurities. and given his biography, that adds weight to that.

Both express themselves nearly identically, but witht he tells that at times are subtle, I lean towards him being insecure. But that is diagnosing through the media and that is always sketchy at best.
 

Addy

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2020
4,288
4,467
113
61
Ontario
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Well He does express the signs that it is not just an over inflated ego, but has deep seated insecurities. and given his biography, that adds weight to that.

Both express themselves nearly identically, but witht he tells that at times are subtle, I lean towards him being insecure. But that is diagnosing through the media and that is always sketchy at best.

I had no idea there were two variables... I simply thought it was all over inflated ego... so there... you taught me something...
 

Ronald Nolette

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2020
12,705
3,774
113
69
South Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Ironically.... I created a new post this morning... I will copy and paste...

On July 4, 1776, Founding Fathers wrote the United States Declaration of Independence.
Twenty years later... The Government of America is already denying and denouncing its existence as a Christian nation. I found this very interesting.


The Treaty of Tripoli (Treaty of Peace and Friendship between the United States of America and the Bey and Subjects of Tripoli of Barbary) was signed in 1796. It was the first treaty between the United States of America and Tripoli (now Libya) to secure commercial shipping rights and protect American ships in the Mediterranean Sea from local Barbary pirates.

Treaty of Tripoli Article 11

Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen (Muslims); and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan (Mohammedan) nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries. This treaty was signed by John Adams.
( source Wikipedia )

My question then is on WHAT basis do people believe that United States is a CHRISTIAN NATION? This is not a mocking or fishing question... It's an honest one... Why do so many Christians consider America a Christian nation?

Being a history buff. I have a strong theory on why Adams said this to the Muslims.
Europe had been very antagonistic towards the Muslim nations. Each and every European nation was a "Christian Nation" in that they all had a national religion. England -Anglican, Germany-Lutheran, Spain- Catholic etc.etc etc. While most of the founders extolled the virutes of Christianity and it was very demonstrated in our public and governmental life, we had no Official religion (denomination) I believe it was written this way to ease the potential tensions because of the European hostility.

Also given that Christianity is divided amongst many denominations and is a walk of life more than a "religion" per se' , it can be written with full confidence and yet still have Christianity as a major influence in public and private life for the many.
 

Addy

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2020
4,288
4,467
113
61
Ontario
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Being a history buff. I have a strong theory on why Adams said this to the Muslims.
Europe had been very antagonistic towards the Muslim nations. Each and every European nation was a "Christian Nation" in that they all had a national religion. England -Anglican, Germany-Lutheran, Spain- Catholic etc.etc etc. While most of the founders extolled the virutes of Christianity and it was very demonstrated in our public and governmental life, we had no Official religion (denomination) I believe it was written this way to ease the potential tensions because of the European hostility.

Also given that Christianity is divided amongst many denominations and is a walk of life more than a "religion" per se' , it can be written with full confidence and yet still have Christianity as a major influence in public and private life for the many.

Well... I am not a history buff... I had to look up that information... and was surprised actually. I am not American... and I do not believe there is such a thing as a Christian nation... I also do not believe the Supreme Court has the authority to discern anything regarding Christian matters.

Regardless of why the document was written... IT was written and expresses the United States as NOT being a Christian nation. It is a legal document.
 

David H.

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
2,480
1,908
113
55
michigan
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
My question then is on WHAT basis do people believe that United States is a CHRISTIAN NATION? This is not a mocking or fishing question... It's an honest one... Why do so many Christians consider America a Christian nation?

America is not a Christian nation, She is founded upon Judeo Christian Ideals. Her founding is based on religious freedom not a state church, She was founded by many fleeing such religious tyranny. Hence the freedoms which our constitution protects which the left and the media are trying to destroy. This is why laws such as "hate speech" are being pushed because they violate these freedoms and take them away from the people.

We the people of this country did not vote for this, but corruption is now placing these ideals in office. the Election process was sabotaged by the left, and anyone with a common sense saw this occur on election night. with the elections compromised, Biden may be declared president or whoever his replacement may be, but they will not rule by the consent of the people of this country for they were NOT duly elected in a fair electoral process. The result will be civil disobedience unlike ever before, and likely lead to civil war as no resolution will be seen as "Fair and Just" for either party. Black markets will increase, lawlessness will increase, and the love of many will grow cold.

The Last bastion of true justice in the world has lost its light in the world, the city on the hill that the U.S. was, the beacon for freedom and opportunity has now been replaced by tyranny, and the left, the media, the corrupt are to blame. It is not the will of the people that has done this but the corruption of the leaders, and this was all foretold in scripture. Once Trump is out of the way, all h*ll will be loosed on the people. We have little time in this world as Christians to prepare for what is to come.
 

Addy

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2020
4,288
4,467
113
61
Ontario
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
America is not a Christian nation, She is founded upon Judeo Christian Ideals. Her founding is based on religious freedom not a state church, She was founded by many fleeing such religious tyranny. Hence the freedoms which our constitution protects which the left and the media are trying to destroy. This is why laws such as "hate speech" are being pushed because they violate these freedoms and take them away from the people.

We the people of this country did not vote for this, but corruption is now placing these ideals in office. the Election process was sabotaged by the left, and anyone with a common sense saw this occur on election night. with the elections compromised, Biden may be declared president or whoever his replacement may be, but they will not rule by the consent of the people of this country for they were NOT duly elected in a fair electoral process. The result will be civil disobedience unlike ever before, and likely lead to civil war as no resolution will be seen as "Fair and Just" for either party. Black markets will increase, lawlessness will increase, and the love of many will grow cold.

The Last bastion of true justice in the world has lost its light in the world, the city on the hill that the U.S. was, the beacon for freedom and opportunity has now been replaced by tyranny, and the left, the media, the corrupt are to blame. It is not the will of the people that has done this but the corruption of the leaders, and this was all foretold in scripture. Once Trump is out of the way, all h*ll will be loosed on the people. We have little time in this world as Christians to prepare for what is to come.

Thank you for this thoughtful response. I appreciate your words.
 

Addy

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2020
4,288
4,467
113
61
Ontario
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Well He does express the signs that it is not just an over inflated ego, but has deep seated insecurities. and given his biography, that adds weight to that.

Both express themselves nearly identically, but witht he tells that at times are subtle, I lean towards him being insecure. But that is diagnosing through the media and that is always sketchy at best.

I just read this in an article this morning...It seems to line up with what you have stated...

“The mental condition he suffers most from is formally known as a severe instance of narcissistic personality disorder,” he added.

Dr Zinner said that the disorder “is the failure in childhood and beyond to develop an inner sense of worth or self-esteem,” and added that it “makes one’s worth entirely dependent upon admiration from others.”
( which would explain his constant compulsion to pat himself on the back ).

It is mind-boggling to me how Christians support this person... but it does say much about the state of America... There is nothing Christian about a nation that is all about ITSELF... America First... me... me... me. This in my opinion is all about MONEY... and POWER... That seems to be how America defines itself.
 
Last edited by a moderator: