I have a confession to make

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Pearl

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I confess that i am not totally convinced that Jesus was resurrected, i would like to believe that but i seem to not have a strong enough faith as to believe that it could happen, i question its validity but i realise that he was a great man and i still believe he was the son of God, I believe most of the Word but the Resurrection is hard to digest for me.

There is a film called 'Risen' about a Roman officer entrusted with the job of guarding the tomb where Jesus is laid after his death on the cross. He seals the stone and his men are placed outside the tomb but in the morning the tomb is open and empty. The officer is then on a mission to find the body which he is unable to do. It is a very good film and might answer a few questions.

Also there's a book called, 'Who Moved the Stone?' Who Moved the Stone?: Amazon.co.uk: Morison, Frank: 9781850786740: Books
 
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keithr

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People come back from the dead all the time so what seems to be the deal. Can you give a run down on that?
A resuscitation is not the same thing as a resurrection. Nobody has come back to life after they have been cremated!
 
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farouk

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There is a film called 'Risen' about a Roman officer entrusted with the job of guarding the tomb where Jesus is laid after his death on the cross. He seals the stone and his men are placed outside the tomb but in the morning the tomb is open and empty. The officer is then on a mission to find the body which he is unable to do. It is a very good film and might answer a few questions.

Also there's a book called, 'Who Moved the Stone?' Who Moved the Stone?: Amazon.co.uk: Morison, Frank: 9781850786740: Books
Hi @Pearl I was going to mention Frank Morrison's Who moved the Stone? but you did already... :)
 
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Pearl

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Hi @Pearl I was going to mention Frank Morrison's Who moved the Stone? but you did already... :)
Years ago when i was a new Christian, somebody in our church did a visual presentation of 'Who Moved the Stone'. It is so convincing. @farouk Have you seen 'Risen'?
 

2nd Timothy Group

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Well quoted. :)


However, I think this quote is less relevant, because it is referring to God bringing the Israelites back to Israel in the latter days, and so it applies only to Jews in Israel. A bit of context [WEB]:

17) “Therefore say, ‘Thus says the Lord Yahweh: “I will gather you from the peoples, and assemble you out of the countries where you have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel.”
18) “‘They will come there, and they will take away all its detestable things and all its abominations from there.
19) I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you [them]. I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them a heart of flesh;
20) that they may walk in my statutes, and keep my ordinances, and do them. They will be my people, and I will be their God.

Hey Keith!

Thanks for the reply. I hear what you're saying. Truly, I do. I think that there is a greater context, however, than even the one that you have provided. It comes from Romans chapter 2:

Romans 2:28-29 NLT - "For you are not a true Jew just because you were born of Jewish parents or because you have gone through the ceremony of circumcision. 29 No, a true Jew is one whose heart is right with God. And true circumcision is not merely obeying the letter of the law; rather, it is a change of heart produced by God's Spirit. And a person with a changed heart seeks praise from God, not from people."

The Promised Land is a reflection of what awaits in Heaven. To receive that Heavenly Promised Land, one must be Circumcised by Christ, and the Ezekiel passages give us an amazing Old Testament description of what that Circumcision is. This idea is all throughout Scripture, that is, the Circumcision of Christ. Here's another example:

Deuteronomy 10:16 KJV - "Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked."
Deuteronomy 30:6 KJV - "And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live."

This is not a process for Jews. This is a process from those who God foreknew and chose before the World began. These are the same ones who Jesus said that He would not lose even one child that the Father had ordained to give Him.

Col 2:9-15 explains the Spiritual Circumcision of Christ. The KJV and NLT combined really pry the concept wide open.
 

Stuart

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"For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake . . ."

I am finding this a bit hard to fathom, I do believe in him, God cannot believe in himself, He believes in me and i in him, its a mutually beneficial arangement and because of christ that only makes the bond even stronger.
 

Stuart

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Nobody has come back to life after they have been cremated!

maybe he wasnt fully dead maybe he was in a state of shock idk, i have heard of people who are thought to have died come back to life, what if he was still alive when taken down and he regained consciousness back in the tomb, the pierced side could have been a flesh wound and not life threatening. But idk and i will never know for certain unless i trust in god fully and accept his teaching on those events.
 

2nd Timothy Group

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I am finding this a bit hard to fathom, I do believe in him, God cannot believe in himself, He believes in me and I in him, its a mutually beneficial arrangement and because of Christ that only makes the bond even stronger.

Do you not know that God is in control of ALL things? Are you aware of the Heavenly Scrolls and the implications behind them? What is written in a scroll is what is going to happen; and there isn't anything we can do about it. The Bible shows this level of control over all of creation right down to when falcons and owls will show up at a specific place and at a specific time, each with it's mate. Imagine that . . . each moment of the life of and owl or falcon is accounted for, to ensure that what is written in the Scrolls will, in fact, take place. How much more, then, does God control humanity?

Isaiah 34:15-16 NIV - "The owl will nest there and lay eggs, she will hatch them, and care for her young under the shadow of her wings; there also the falcons will gather, each with its mate. 16 Look in the scroll of the LORD and read: None of these will be missing, not one will lack her mate. For it is his mouth that has given the order, and his Spirit will gather them together."

As said, the Lord is in control of ALL things. Nothing is outside of His grasp and control. :)
 

TheslightestID

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You believe in an all powerful God who created the universe and you don't believe that same God can do what would be relitively simple compared to the universe, as in cause a resurection?
 

keithr

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Romans 2:28-29 NLT - "For you are not a true Jew just because you were born of Jewish parents or because you have gone through the ceremony of circumcision. 29 No, a true Jew is one whose heart is right with God. And true circumcision is not merely obeying the letter of the law; rather, it is a change of heart produced by God's Spirit. And a person with a changed heart seeks praise from God, not from people."

The Promised Land is a reflection of what awaits in Heaven. To receive that Heavenly Promised Land, one must be Circumcised by Christ, and the Ezekiel passages give us an amazing Old Testament description of what that Circumcision is. This idea is all throughout Scripture, that is, the Circumcision of Christ.
I think a combination of the WEB and ISV translations of Romans 2:28-29 is a bit better:
"For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, neither is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit not in the letter;" [WEB] "That person's praise will come from God, not from people" [ISV]

The word circumcision signifies clean or pure. The word was used of lips, ears, hearts and even of fruit trees, e.g. “And when ye shall come into the land, and shall have planted all manner of trees for food, then ye shall count the fruit thereof as uncircumcised: three years shall it be as uncircumcised unto you: it shall not be eaten of” (Lev. 19:23). So the Romans verses are saying that a true Jew (for in this passage Paul was talking to Jews) would have a truly spiritually pure and clean heart; he would not just obey the Law but his every thought would be clean and pure too.

This is not a process for Jews. This is a process from those who God foreknew and chose before the World began. These are the same ones who Jesus said that He would not lose even one child that the Father had ordained to give Him.

Col 2:9-15 explains the Spiritual Circumcision of Christ.
It is a requirement for the Jews, and in fact everyone. Perfect righteousness and love is required from everyone, Jews, Christians and others, if they are to have eternal life. So we should read those Colossians verses (written to Christians) while bearing in mind that circumcision means clean and pure, and uncircumcision means unclean and impure:

10) and in him [Jesus] you are made full, who is the head of all principality and power;
11) in whom you were also circumcised [cleansed and purified] with a circumcision [cleansing] not made with hands, in the putting off of the body of the sins of the flesh, in the circumcision [cleansing and purifying] of Christ;
12) having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.
13) You were dead through your trespasses and the uncircumcision [uncleanliness and impurity] of your flesh. He made you alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,
14) wiping out the handwriting in ordinances which was against us; and he has taken it out of the way, nailing it to the cross;
 
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keithr

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maybe he wasnt fully dead maybe he was in a state of shock idk, i have heard of people who are thought to have died come back to life, what if he was still alive when taken down and he regained consciousness back in the tomb, the pierced side could have been a flesh wound and not life threatening. But idk and i will never know for certain unless i trust in god fully and accept his teaching on those events.
The Roman soldiers were experts at killing people! We can be quite sure that he was dead. But even if he wasn't dead after he had been placed in the tomb, it's unconceivable that he could remain there severely injured for three days, without food and water, then in the dark make his way to the stone at the entrance, which was sealed from outside and had Roman soldiers outside guarding it, that he could then roll the stone aside and wander off unoticed. It's easier to believe that God resurrected him, as the Scriptures say!

Besides, as believers in God and Christ, we should not call them liers!
 

2nd Timothy Group

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I think a combination of the WEB and ISV translations of Romans 2:28-29 is a bit better:
"For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, neither is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit not in the letter;" [WEB] "That person's praise will come from God, not from people" [ISV]

The word circumcision signifies clean or pure. The word was used of lips, ears, hearts and even of fruit trees, e.g. “And when ye shall come into the land, and shall have planted all manner of trees for food, then ye shall count the fruit thereof as uncircumcised: three years shall it be as uncircumcised unto you: it shall not be eaten of” (Lev. 19:23). So the Romans verses are saying that a true Jew (for in this passage Paul was talking to Jews) would have a truly spiritually pure and clean heart; he would not just obey the Law but his every thought would be clean and pure too.


It is a requirement for the Jews, and in fact everyone. Perfect righteousness and love is required from everyone, Jews, Christians and others, if they are to have eternal life. So we should read those Colossians verses (written to Christians) while bearing in mind that circumcision means clean and pure, and uncircumcision means unclean and impure:

10) and in him [Jesus] you are made full, who is the head of all principality and power;
11) in whom you were also circumcised [cleansed and purified] with a circumcision [cleansing] not made with hands, in the putting off of the body of the sins of the flesh, in the circumcision [cleansing and purifying] of Christ;
12) having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.
13) You were dead through your trespasses and the uncircumcision [uncleanliness and impurity] of your flesh. He made you alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,
14) wiping out the handwriting in ordinances which was against us; and he has taken it out of the way, nailing it to the cross;

Sounds good to me. And if this is so, I'm wondering why you would be correcting me. Its a mystery! :)
 

keithr

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Sounds good to me. And if this is so, I'm wondering why you would be correcting me. Its a mystery! :)
I wasn't really correcting you, just providing a bit more information that may be of some help to others who are reading this discussion thread - just a sharing of knowledge. :) I didn't really undersrtand the meaning of circumcision for many years, and there may well be others who would welcome an explanation.
 

Nancy

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I confess that i am not totally convinced that Jesus was resurrected, i would like to believe that but i seem to not have a strong enough faith as to believe that it could happen, i question its validity but I realize that he was a great man and i still believe he was the son of God, I believe most of the Word but the Resurrection is hard to digest for me.
Hi Stuart, it is hard to digest, and it was also for His apostles. But then...why would all of them become martyrs if it were not true? Would you give your life for something that was not true?
Just ask Him for understanding and He will give it to you brother!
 
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charity

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I think a combination of the WEB and ISV translations of Romans 2:28-29 is a bit better:
"For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly,
neither is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh;
but he is a Jew who is one inwardly,
and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit not in the letter;" [WEB]
"That person's praise will come from God, not from people" [ISV]

The word circumcision signifies clean or pure. The word was used of lips, ears, hearts and even of fruit trees, e.g. “And when ye shall come into the land, and shall have planted all manner of trees for food, then ye shall count the fruit thereof as uncircumcised: three years shall it be as uncircumcised unto you: it shall not be eaten of” (Lev. 19:23). So the Romans verses are saying that a true Jew (for in this passage Paul was talking to Jews) would have a truly spiritually pure and clean heart; he would not just obey the Law but his every thought would be clean and pure too.

It is a requirement for the Jews, and in fact everyone. Perfect righteousness and love is required from everyone, Jews, Christians and others, if they are to have eternal life. So we should read those Colossians verses (written to Christians) while bearing in mind that circumcision means clean and pure, and uncircumcision means unclean and impure:

10) and in him [Jesus] you are made full, who is the head of all principality and power;
11) in whom you were also circumcised [cleansed and purified] with a circumcision [cleansing] not made with hands, in the putting off of the body of the sins of the flesh, in the circumcision [cleansing and purifying] of Christ;
12) having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.
13) You were dead through your trespasses and the uncircumcision [uncleanliness and impurity] of your flesh. He made you alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,
14) wiping out the handwriting in ordinances which was against us; and he has taken it out of the way, nailing it to the cross;
Hello @keithr,

With respect, I would ask you to consider verse 11, which you have quoted (above), for your bracketed words (cleansing and purifying) appear to imply that Christ Himself needed 'cleansing and purifying', which we know is not the case. Circumcision here is spoken of in regard to Christ's death, when His life was 'cut off'. (Circumcision being the cutting off of the foreskin). Believers are reckoned to have died with Him (- in doing so, putting off the body of the sins of the flesh v.11), and have been raised with Him to walk in newness of life before the Father.

* We are complete in Him.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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Nancy

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Hello @keithr,

With respect, I would ask you to consider verse 11, which you have quoted (above), for your bracketed words (cleansing and purifying) appear to imply that Christ Himself needed 'cleansing and purifying', which we know is not the case. Circumcision here is spoken of in regard to Christ's death, when His life was 'cut off'. (Circumcision being the cutting off of the foreskin). Believers are reckoned to have died with Him (- in doing so, putting off the body of the sins of the flesh v.11), and have been raised with Him to walk in newness of life before the Father.

* We are complete in Him.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Hi Chris, have you been getting your inboxes? I did respond to your last message...
xx
 

Stuart

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there are 4 known interpretations of Jesus resurrection, which one is true? all of them?
 

2nd Timothy Group

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I wasn't really correcting you, just providing a bit more information that may be of some help to others who are reading this discussion thread - just a sharing of knowledge. :) I didn't really undersrtand the meaning of circumcision for many years, and there may well be others who would welcome an explanation.

I couldn't agree more. In fact, I'd say that the entire Bible revolves around Circumcision, for this is one of the unbelievable ways that God kept His Mysterious Plan a Mystery. The Jews stumbled over the sign of physical circumcision, thinking that it was the sign that saved them rather than the Circumcision of Heart that saved Abraham, our Father of Faith.

Glad to see that you are onboard with the True, Effectual, Causal Faith of Abraham! :)
 
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