Tares Reveal Themselves by what they DON’T Say...And They Are With us Here .How to Identify Them...

Blood Bought 1953 said:

I assume people know their Bibles or they would not be in here....if I type something about the Bible in a Post, maybe I give people too much credit,but I figure they know the verse just as well as I do and it’s not necessary to give the Chapter and verse......I usually give chapter and verse if I am quoting an obscure Scripture like “All things are Lawful” or you are ordered to “give money to the-man that gave you the Gospel”.....want Chapter and verse for those? I can get them.....

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All things are lawful because we are not of the law. We are not judged by the law, we are judged by a God and don't think for a minute you can play Him for a fool.

Blood Bought 1953 said:

...Certain Books in the Bible I have read probably 50 times...

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I have read through all of the epistles at least 104 times...as for the past 2 years I have read through all of the epistles once per week, 52 times per year.

Blood Bought 1953 said:

...I am not so full of myself That I don’t readily admit that there are a Preachers out there ( God’s Gifts, He calls them....why do you reject them?) That are smarter than me , know the Bible better than me

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You should consider that some of your opponents might be among those of whom you speak.

Blood Bought 1953 said:

...how about you? Are you guys claiming to know it all and are above being taught “ anything “ by “ anybody”...

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We believe that we can be added to by those who study the Bible with a Berean attitude.

Blood Bought 1953 said:

...I’ve found that I can learn a little from almost anybody out there....of course it takes a little humility...

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You seem to think that we do not listen to teachers at all. Whereas we are disparaging you for listening to false teachers and for not knowing your Bible well enough to discern that their teachings are false.

marks said:

Ad hominem . . .

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Sometimes an ad hominem argument can be valid, as in the case with what you are complaining about.

Blood Bought 1953 said:

and we are to do “ Our” Righteous Thing by Rebuking those who ADD to Paul’s Gospel with False Doctrines like the Damnation Of all Souls That do not Repent Of all of their their sins before they die...

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Of course, the Bible teaches that those who continue to be "workers / doers of iniquity" shall be cast into the furnace of everlasting fire (Matthew 13:41-42, Matthew 7:23, Matthew 25:41).

It should also be clear that mankind is born dead in trespasses and sins (Ephesians 2:1) and therefore he is a "doer / worker of iniquity" by default.

Therefore in order to not be cast into the furnace of everlasting fire, he must cease from being a "doer / worker of iniquity". That means REPENT.

Not sure why you're not getting that, @Blood Bought 1953...

Do you believe that the Bible is the inspired word of the living God?

Do you deny that the scriptures that I am referencing are inspired truths?

What is the origination of your cognitive dissonance?

Grailhunter said:

Ludacris.

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That's "ludicrous".

Ludacris is a rapper.

marks said:

You know that none of these mean what you are saying it your interpretation contradicts other Scriptures, of which there are many which tell us that those, well, even just one, such as Colossians 3, that those who have been raised with Christ will appear with Him in glory.

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1) he is not interpreting the scriptures that he is quoting, he is merely quoting them.

2) the only reason why you believe they contradict each other (that his scriptures contradict yours) is because you seem to think that a man can have faith in Christ without that faith making him holy.

Blood Bought 1953 said:

.....said the Pot to the kettle....

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@Ferris Bueller has refuted you not a few times with holy scripture; and so have I.

marks said:

Yeah, so what I'm saying is, you've transferred <fify>, in your mind, the responsibility for remaining "saved", whatever that really must mean to you I don't know, but you've made your salvation to be on you to maintain.

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Actually, what I am teaching is that it is our responsibility to give diligence to make our calling and election sure. If it is sure, then we can be certain that the Lord will maintain it.

Those who have a genuine faith (a heart faith that is unto righteousness (Romans 10:10) and enduring to the end (Matthew 10:22, Hebrews 3:6, Hebrews 3:14)) are sealed by the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13-14, Ephesians 4:30, 2 Corinthians 1:22, 2 Corinthians 5:5) and therefore they have an everlasting faith and thus everlasting life (John 6:47).

Those whose faith is nominal, lukewarm, or shallow cannot say that they have been sealed by the Holy Spirit. Their attempts at maintaining their own salvation, of course, will be to no avail.

Because only those who have the Holy Ghost are able to keep themselves by the power of God through faith (1 John 5:18, 1 Peter 1:5, Jude 1:21).

marks said:

And if you don't remove yourself from His hand, this shows you were able to maintain <fify>, or, you were able to hold tightly to the word, not letting go, YAY! You DID IT!!

You kept yourself in His hand!

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Correct (1 John 5:18).

marks said:

"go back to unbelief", that's fiction.

If you've been raised with Him, you WILL appear with Him in glory.

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In Luke 8:12-13, in verse 12, we find that the person who believes is saved (as with Ephesians 2:8-9). In verse 13 we find people who "believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away." That means that they "went back to unbelief"...and therefore the concept is not fiction.

marks said:

He has promised, He will never leave me nor forsake me.

Do you tack on your caveats? That promise is for me!

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Are you sure?

You would do well to do some more soul-searching as the Bible commands you to do in such verses as Philippians 2:12, 2 Peter 1:10, and 2 Corinthians 13:5.

Blood Bought 1953 said:

...Salvation to many of you guys is Jesus PLUS Lucky Repentance ...

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The "lucky" in that is found in 1 Corinthians 15:37, Matthew 13:30.

The repentance in Matthew 13:41-42, Matthew 7:23, Matthew 25:41.

Because we are born dead in trespasses and sins.

So, we must repent in order to cease from being "workers / doers of iniquity"

Ezekiel 33:11-20 is also clear on this matter (for the Berean who will study his Bible to know whether what we preach is really so).

Blood Bought 1953 said:

...Jesus PLUS avoiding all willful sins...

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Yes, that is the teaching of Hebrews 10:26-31...if you take it at face value instead of listening to false teachers on the matter.

Blood Bought 1953 said:

You don't understand it .....you never will ...

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That is not for you to decide.

Blood Bought 1953 said:

This side of Heaven, no man with a Body Of Flesh will obtain the life of “ Sinless Perfection” that he strives for because he sadly and mistakenly thinks that the “ Sermon on the Mount” was the System for ...... the Gospel Of Paul, given to him by Jesus personally is the “ System” this Side Of The Cross.....we Believe it “ unto Salvation”

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Blood Bought 1953 said:

Trying and failing to keep The 613 Commandments ( not just 10), or trying to obey the Impossible Standards set by the Sermon on the Mount ( which was the Ten Commandments on STEROIDS!) was not God's System to get anybody Saved.....it was HIS WAY to get you to give up on all attempts to become Fit For Heaven other than throwing yourself upon His Mercy and Grace and “ Turning to Him (the only type of “ Repentance” that plays a part in Salvation) as a Lost Sinner , and putting your Faith in Jesus Christ...... God says that if you will simply do “ that”......He will “ Save you to the UTTERMOST!”——- that’s good enough fo me!
Even if one “ could” eradicate all of the sin from their lives, where would that leave a person? They would become keepers of the Law...”and by the Keeping of the Law , NO FLESH shall be JUSTIFIED!”

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A couple of my favorite quotes from BB...I do not have a suitable frame for it....but I will keep an eye out for one.
I am sure on Judgement Day, Christ will tell you He was just kidding about the morality thing. Will you feel bad that you did not sin more? Just think of the fun you could have had! Or is it a commentary of the Gospel by Satan? Would Satan say the same thing?

The Tares have given their opinions apart from what is written in the holy scriptures; while the "wheat" have given scriptural concepts and have either quoted or referenced scripture to substantiate their point of view.

The "kernels of wheat" that the "wheat" bears, is holy scripture.

The following scripture is what differentiates the wheat from the Tare.

Rom 10:8, But what saith <the righteousness of faith>? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

marks said:

"go back to unbelief", that's fiction.

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I've been saying all along I have no problem with anyone thinking that the true believer will never go back to not believing. I'm talking to the people who think you can be an unbeliever again and remain saved. It's the exact polar opposite of the legalist, but just as deadly.

Blood Bought 1953 said:

Now that the Tares have showed their hands, lets move on to something else....this thread is getting repetitious and boring.....I’m getting ready to start another intriguing thread....Check it out!

I would like to thank everybody that participated in this one.....even the most stiff- necked played their parts....they were excellent “ Springboards” to get the True Gospel Of Grace out there for those that have been Poorly Taught and are “ Still” in Bondage to their “ Performances” ....

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HA.... Sounds like a graduation speech.... I'll bring more snacks for the next thread.

Blood Bought 1953 said:

Jesus PLUS avoiding all willful sins....the list goes on and on.....It just can’t be “ Jesus Saves- Period.” Can it?

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You've mentioned being college educated, so why can't you comprehend that the argument being made is that willfully going back to your sins is going back to unbelief? Are you purposely mischaracterizing the argument?

@Ferris Bueller ... I am also college educated.... LOL.... which means absolutely NOTHING... as I find those who are highly educated often have a difficult time with simplicity and mystery.... Consider two people...

One is raised in a very negative environment... the father is an authoritarian task-master and the mother is always worried about appearances... the child grows up MOST insecure and filled with the need to perform for her self-worth...

The other child is raised in a home where Daddy is her hero... her prince and she is lavishly loved and cherished by both parents. This child grows up KNOWING full well what her worth is.

That is the difference in how some see and perceive Christianity.... some perceive God as angry... and always JUDGING performance... These Christians are "sin-focused".... and in all honesty ... they are a miserable lot... always putting their noses in others business... correcting...judging... condemning...

The one who believes in GRACE... is given an IDENTITY at the BEGINNING of conversion...They become IN CHRIST... therefore they are free to LIVE their lives in peace and with JOY.

The assumption and accusation that those of us who are RESTING in our position are CONDONING sin... is an ABSOLUTE LIE.... and it doesn't matter how often one states... I DO NOT CONDONE sin of ANY KIND.... the rebuttal always comes back as YES you do...

I would much rather live in the FREEDOM and Light of Christ's love then in the shadow of judgement.

NO ONE .... EVER gets away with SIN. Those who accuse others of hypocrisy are the very ones who are living a life filled with it... because they think they are BETTER than others.

I believe I am SAVED... done deal... I have the FAITH to believe that God will finish doing a good work in me. Done deal. I do NOT believe I can sin all I desire to... I don't focus on sin.... I focus on JESUS... the LOVER of my soul.

Blood Bought 1953 said:

I have read the Bible many, many times....Certain Books in the Bible I have read probably 50 times....I have listened to hundreds of preachers over the last 40 years and I was a “ Berean” before I even knew what a Berean was.....I don’t care who says what until I check it out for myself....


Some teachers are worse than worthless.....others have taught me many things....I am not so full of myself That I don’t readily admit that there are a Preachers out there ( God’s Gifts, He calls them....why do you reject them?) That are smarter than me , know the Bible better than me ( and you ) and help me “ Properly Divide “ the Scriptures....how about you? Are you guys claiming to know it all and are above being taught “ anything “ by “ anybody”......I’ve found that I can learn a little from almost anybody out there....of course it takes a little humility...

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Learning and studying in and of itself does not guarantee anything......

Addy said:

I believe I am SAVED... done deal... I have the FAITH to believe that God will finish doing a good work in me. Done deal.

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That's called 'continuing in faith'. That's what we're supposed to do. That's what the Bible says to do. I'm saying there's no need to complicate it beyond this and cause so much strife and division as so many people are doing. Why is it important that the church draw battle lines over whether or not you can lose your salvation? The important thing is that we keep believing and are not found in unbelief when Christ returns and we are raised to give an account of our lives.

Ferris Bueller said:

That's called 'continuing in faith'. That's what we're supposed to do. That's what the Bible says to do. There's no need to complicate it beyond this and cause so much strife and division as so many people are doing. Why is it important that the church draw battle lines over whether or not you can lose your salvation? The important thing is that we keep believing and are not found in unbelief when Christ returns and we are raised to give an account of our lives.

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Well... I come from a family that is legalistic.... and this issue is IMPORTANT because legalism KILLS and brings DEATH.... Sadly... far too many Christians come from this type of upbringing... and it causes MUCH TROUBLE... not to mention teaching that one can lose their salvation is a LIE against what GOD said. My faith is simple.... I used to get so very angry with the legalists... their teachings left me absolutely in a state of unrest and constant fear.... It took 20 years to be convinced that God actually loves little old me... The damage done by teaching one can lose their salvation is DANGEROUS. I can smell them from a mile away... and they STINK.

Anyways.... I saw that you were awake... and thought I would make a comment.

Addy said:

I used to get so very angry with the legalists... their teachings left me absolutely in a state of unrest and constant fear.... It took 20 years to be convinced that God actually loves little old me.

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Tell us about it. What were you fearful of? The commands of God? Or the commands of men?

Addy said:

It took 20 years to be convinced that God actually loves little old me.

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When I found that out that was the day I got saved. Up to then I rightly feared the just punishment my sins deserved. Then I was told how God cared that I was trapped in sin and not going to be with him when I die. That truth didn't change the "legalism" of what sin was. It led me to the grace of God's forgiveness and receiving power over the sin that condemned me.

Ferris Bueller said:

Tell us about it. What were you fearful of? The commands of God? Or the commands of men?

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I smell a trap.... LOL Sorry.... I simply wanted to have a conversation with you... I do not really desire to get into the depths of a fruitless debate.
But to answer your question with simplicity.... the environment in a legalistic home is toxic... whenever I was in the presence of this person... I felt as though I was choking... It is similar on these threads... You can tell when talking to someone who is legalistic because all they want to talk about is sin.... and they accuse those who live in Restful assurance of condoning sin... They are earthly minded folk... always striving to look good on the outside...

I am now in a good position because I have been set free from all that CRAP.... I am no longer fearful of losing my salvation. My eyes are focused on CHRIST.... not on SIN....

Addy said:

The damage done by teaching one can lose their salvation is DANGEROUS.

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I think it better to stick to the Bible's warning to not stop believing rather than get into the osas debate. That's safe territory because those passages are so clear that they are not open to debate.

@Ferris... I'm off now... It was lovely bumping into you... Have a lovely sleep when you get there... LOL

Addy said:

I smell a trap.... LOL Sorry.... I simply wanted to have a conversation with you... I do not really desire to get into the depths of a fruitless debate.
But to answer your question with simplicity.... the environment in a legalistic home is toxic... whenever I was in the presence of this person... I felt as though I was choking... It is similar on these threads... You can tell when talking to someone who is legalistic because all they want to talk about is sin.... and they accuse those who live in Restful assurance of condoning sin... They are earthly minded folk... always striving to look good on the outside...

I am now in a good position because I have been set free from all that CRAP.... I am no longer fearful of losing my salvation. My eyes are focused on CHRIST.... not on SIN....

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I don't think legalism is defined by being able to lose your salvation. I was trying to start a discussion about what legalism is. It's not being told you'll go to hell if you don't repent. Don't you agree?