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  1. Butch5

    God does not drag all....

    I did not say the days were spiritual. I quoted Scripture. Peter Quotes from the OT and says, 'a day with the Lord is as a thousand years and a thousand years as a day'. That is Scripture, so when God said in the day you eat of it you shall surely die, he could very easily have meant the...
  2. Butch5

    Freewill and Choice have NOTHING to dowith Salvation

    I am not arguing that your position does not make sense, however, it is not required. As I mentioned, the verse just before is speaking of the judgment of this world. if we understand verse 32 as you do, are we to understand that is it only all types of men that will be judged or will every...
  3. Butch5

    Freewill and Choice have NOTHING to dowith Salvation

    Not so friend, God did not cause Adam and Eve to sin. What would be the purpose of causing them to sin? Ps. 90:1-3. "Lord, You have been our dwelling place in all generations. Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever You have formed the earth or the world, even from everlasting to...
  4. Butch5

    Freewill and Choice have NOTHING to dowith Salvation

    First let me say that I apologize if my post yesterday came across as sarcastic. Secondly, I do not hold to Arminian doctrin. Well, you see it is the Calvinist conclusion that does not fit with the Scriptures. The Calvinist is force to change the meaning of words to reconcile doctrine. As I...
  5. Butch5

    God does not drag all....

    Jesus didn't say the lost tribes, He said hte lost sheep.
  6. Butch5

    God does not drag all....

    I am not confusing things friend, you just seem to have so many different terms that are not in Scripture, as most Calvinists do. Please show me where Jesus or the apostles teach of rejecting God absolutely as opposed to rejecting Him any other way. The Scriptures you posted show that men choose...
  7. Butch5

    God does not drag all....

    If you look at the Greek you will find that the word believe is in the "Subjunctive" mood which indicates possibility or probability but "not" certainty. That is the reason the word might was added by the translators. You may have covered it but I do not accept it. As I have shown the verse...
  8. Butch5

    God does not drag all....

    What's your point. I did not say anyting of mdoern Israel. All I did was quote Christ.
  9. Butch5

    Freewill and Choice have NOTHING to dowith Salvation

    Yes friend I have. And I have done so in context. I did not overlook verse 45, as I said, Israel was blinded, only those who were drawn could come, and verse 45 are those who were drawn. And yes, I would be most interested if you could show how John 12:32 is out of context. And please don't...
  10. Butch5

    Freewill and Choice have NOTHING to dowith Salvation

    Can you explain then why this teaching was not taught in the church until Martin Luther and John Calvin? In the time of Christ and the apostles this was taught by the Greek Philosophers.
  11. Butch5

    Freewill and Choice have NOTHING to dowith Salvation

    Just a single verse that speaks of Spiritual death.
  12. Butch5

    Freewill and Choice have NOTHING to dowith Salvation

    I've already shown you that John calls the believer the one who overcomes. So, all who believe are overcomers. You may have said that God is not calling all people, but that is not what the Scriptures say.
  13. Butch5

    Freewill and Choice have NOTHING to dowith Salvation

    Wow, you sure read a lot into that. I didn't see most of what you said when I read the creation account. Maybe that is why you are having difficulty reconciling hte Scriptures. As I have shown, Peter says that a thousand years is as a day with the Lord, Adam lived 930 years. So, according to...
  14. Butch5

    Freewill and Choice have NOTHING to dowith Salvation

    Not at all my friend, I have already shown that John 6:44 in context is not speaking to the drawing of the elect to salvation. First of all John 6:44 is spoken by Jesus while on earth. Let's look at what else Jesus said. Matthew 15:24 ( KJV ) But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto...
  15. Butch5

    Freewill and Choice have NOTHING to dowith Salvation

    Can you provide any evidence to support your claim? You said look at the order of Ephesians two, this is not giving an order of salvation, it is merely Paul explaining what happened to the Ephesians in their past. Please show me a single verse of Scripture that says one is saved before they have...
  16. Butch5

    Freewill and Choice have NOTHING to dowith Salvation

    Adam died spiritually??? That is pure speculation and conjecture. The passage says nothing of spiritual death. It is an assumption based on the idea that Adam did not die in that 24 hour period. However, what do the Scriptures say? Genesis 2:16-17 ( KJV ) And the LORD God commanded the man...
  17. Butch5

    Freewill and Choice have NOTHING to dowith Salvation

    I have just posted commentary regarding the drawing in John 6:44, you can read it here. http://www.christianityboard.com/apologetic-christian-forum/god-does-not-drag-all/msg75816/#msg75816
  18. Butch5

    God does not drag all....

    I think the reason you are having trouble with this is because most people do not take the context into account. This passage, John 6:44 was spoken to the Jews ( the only ones that Christ came to) and was spoken of the time of Jesus' earthly ministry. During that time God was preparing the...
  19. Butch5

    God does not drag all....

    Do you have any gramatical or contextual evidence to support such a claim?
  20. Butch5

    God does not drag all....

    Its 12000 from the each of the 12 tribes of Israel.