“And the earth was without form, and void”

[VictoryinJesus]

Genesis 1:2-3
[2] And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. [3] And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.


Jeremiah 4:21-28
[21] How long shall I see the standard, and hear the sound of the trumpet? [22] For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge. [23] I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. [24] I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. [25] I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. [26] I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord , and by his fierce anger. [27] For thus hath the Lord said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end. [28] For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it , I have purposed it , and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.

Any input on Jeremiah 4:21-28?

 

[farouk]

Genesis 1:2-3
[2] And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. [3] And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.


Jeremiah 4:21-28
[21] How long shall I see the standard, and hear the sound of the trumpet? [22] For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge. [23] I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. [24] I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. [25] I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. [26] I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord , and by his fierce anger. [27] For thus hath the Lord said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end. [28] For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it , I have purposed it , and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.

Any input on Jeremiah 4:21-28?

So were you thinking of the Gap Theory, or something like that?

 

[CoreIssue]

Genesis 1:2-3
[2] And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. [3] And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Genesis 1:2-3 New International Version (NIV)
2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

The KJV Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon
Strong's Number: 01961 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
hyh a primitive root [compare (01933)]
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Hayah TWOT - 491
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
haw-yaw Verb
Definition

1. to be, become, come to pass, exist, happen, fall out
   1. (Qal)
      1. ----- 1a
   2. to happen, fall out, occur, take place, come about, come to pass 1a
   3. to come about, come to pass
      1. to come into being, become 1a
   4. to arise, appear, come 1a
   5. to become 1a
      1. to become 1a
      2. to become like 1a
      3. to be instituted, be established
      4. to be 1a
   6. to exist, be in existence 1a
   7. to abide, remain, continue (with word of place or time) 1a
   8. to stand, lie, be in, be at, be situated (with word of locality) 1a
   9. to accompany, be with
   10. (Niphal)
       1. to occur, come to pass, be done, be brought about
       2. to be done, be finished, be gone

Jeremiah 4:21-28
[21] How long shall I see the standard, and hear the sound of the trumpet? [22] For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge. [23] I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. [24] I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. [25] I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. [26] I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord , and by his fierce anger. [27] For thus hath the Lord said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end. [28] For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it , I have purposed it , and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.

Any input on Jeremiah 4:21-28?

YES READ, IT IS COVERED HERE;

Commentaries by CoreIssue

 

[VictoryinJesus]

So were you thinking of the Gap Theory, or something like that?

I’m not thinking anything. It has always leapt out 23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was waste and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

 

[CoreIssue]

I’m not thinking anything. It has always leapt out 23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was waste and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

It is all laid out here

Commentaries by CoreIssue

 

[brakelite]

Genesis 1:2-3
[2] And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. [3] And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.


Jeremiah 4:21-28
[21] How long shall I see the standard, and hear the sound of the trumpet? [22] For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge. [23] I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. [24] I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. [25] I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. [26] I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord , and by his fierce anger. [27] For thus hath the Lord said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end. [28] For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it , I have purposed it , and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.

Any input on Jeremiah 4:21-28?

It is a description of the earth after the second coming...during the millennium. There are other like descriptives in scripture which paint a picture of an empty, desolate, barren wasteland wherein no man is living, but corpses lay about as they were left unburied, unlamented, as a result of the destruction that went on immediately prior to the second coming...the plagues and disasters etc. The phrase "yet will I not make a full end" alludes to the new heavens and new earth that arise after the New Jerusalem descends along with the resurrected and glorified saints from all ages past...

 

[Helen]

QUOTE="CoreIssue, post: 469860, member: 7990"][/QUOTE

@CoreIssue Post number 3.
If you go back up and look at post number 3, you will see that it is not visible for us to know who is saying what!!
...as I was just saying on another thread.

 

[Helen]

I’m not thinking anything. It has always leapt out 23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was waste and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

Good to see you...I have missed you!
Glad that you popped on here. :)

 

[Enoch111]

Any input on Jeremiah 4:21-28?

Jeremiah describes future events connected to the wrath of God and the Day of the LORD. It would appear to be conditions immediately AFTER the Great Tribulation and before the Second Coming of Christ. Please note:

CATCYLSMIC COSMIC EVENTS BEFORE THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST

... and the heavens, and they had no light. I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly... For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black... (Jer 4:21-28)

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken... (Mt 24:29)

And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. (Rev 6:12-14)

 

[Enoch111]

It is a description of the earth after the second coming..

Not after, but before the Second Coming of Christ. Please note *and then* stated each time in each Gospel. So the 6th seal events alluded to in Jeremiah PRECEDE the Second Coming of Christ.

MATTHEW 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

MARK 13
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, 25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

LUKE 21
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; 26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. 27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

 

[ScottA]

Genesis 1:2-3
[2] And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. [3] And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.


Jeremiah 4:21-28
[21] How long shall I see the standard, and hear the sound of the trumpet? [22] For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge. [23] I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. [24] I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. [25] I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. [26] I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord , and by his fierce anger. [27] For thus hath the Lord said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end. [28] For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it , I have purposed it , and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.

Any input on Jeremiah 4:21-28?

Beginning and End.

 

[brakelite]

Not after, but before the Second Coming of Christ. Please note *and then* stated each time in each Gospel. So the 6th seal events alluded to in Jeremiah PRECEDE the Second Coming of Christ.

MATTHEW 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

MARK 13
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, 25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

LUKE 21
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; 26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. 27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

If the Jeremiah quote alludes to the time before the second coming, and Jeremiahs description paints the picture of an earth empty of all living, how then do we get tribes mourning, and saints resurrected, as per NT accounts if they are of the same event and time?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

how then do we get tribes mourning, and saints resurrected, as per NT accounts if they are of the same event and time?

Good question.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Good to see you...I have missed you!
Glad that you popped on here. :)

Missed you too. I tried to email, and like you I typed out a long message and then couldn’t send it. Tried twice!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

It is all laid out here

Commentaries by CoreIssue

Thank you. I did read your commentary and, honestly, I don’t see how it could be before Adam. (If I understood you correctly).

Mostly because God’s Spirit moved and created in the beginning. In Jeremiah 4:26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord , and by his fierce anger.

 

[Taken]

Genesis 1:2-3
[2] And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. [3] And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.


Jeremiah 4:21-28
[21] How long shall I see the standard, and hear the sound of the trumpet? [22] For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge. [23] I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. [24] I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. [25] I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. [26] I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord , and by his fierce anger. [27] For thus hath the Lord said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end. [28] For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it , I have purposed it , and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.

Any input on Jeremiah 4:21-28?

I understand the message to be:
God Created the Heavens Before He created Celestial beings.
God Created the Earth Before He created Terrestrial beings.

In short God created what was VISIBLE TO HIM, but not Visible to things NOT yet Created.

With Gods Word and Gods Power, He created.

With Gods Word and Gods Power, He "FORMS" what He has Created.

The FACT is; The Earth He Created, and THEN gave the Earth a FORM, and out of the Earth, He Created a MAN Kind of thing, and MADE that MAN have the ability to SEE, his own form, and his own formed habitat.

The FACT is; the Heavens were Created Before Celestials.

The PRESUMPTION is: the Celsetials were ALSO created out of their own formed habit, and they given VISION to see themselves and their habitat.

POINT being; God is Outside of His own creations, and His creations can not BE observed Until God gives His creations the POWER to Observe (SEE), which He gives that ability TO His creations, BY and THROUGH, His Word and His Power.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Episkopos]

Genesis 1:2-3
[2] And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. [3] And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.


Jeremiah 4:21-28
[21] How long shall I see the standard, and hear the sound of the trumpet? [22] For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge. [23] I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. [24] I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. [25] I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. [26] I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord , and by his fierce anger. [27] For thus hath the Lord said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end. [28] For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it , I have purposed it , and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.

Any input on Jeremiah 4:21-28?

This is about the spiritual order.

I think the salient point in this portion of the word is...And they had no light. This, of course, is not a physical light...but a spiritual one.

God is a God of order. Sin entering into His creation broke that order. So then, in the outward world, we return to a place BEFORE God brought His presence and light into creation. Now we have His creation but without His order and presence. Violence has entered the world. The strong prey on the weak. The world is beyond the direct presence of God.

Our souls are in darkness until we enter into Christ to experience His presence and light. Then, creation...the new creation can change our world from within.

So then we have the creation story retold in a new dimension...a spiritual one where there is a want of a NEW creation AFTER the fall of man. What is needed is a new spiritual covenant that provides people with His light and His order.

 

[Helen]

Missed you too. I tried to email, and like you I typed out a long message and then couldn’t send it. Tried twice!

That is the way you have chosen your setting.
When I tried to INBOX you , it says- "This member does not allow messages." So you have chosen to block messages. You could go back to your profile page and "allow" private messages . ( or not, as the case may be :) )

Anyway, good to see you again.
Truth ( Glenn) is still sadly missing after the death of his wife a few weeks ago...bless his heart.
Stranger INBOXED me....so he is fine and he put up a couple of one liners yesterday....so we know he is okay. :)

APAX is one I have NOT seen in a number of weeks...I must INBOX him and see if he is okay.

Hugs...Helen

 

[CoreIssue]

QUOTE="CoreIssue, post: 469860, member: 7990"][/QUOTE

@CoreIssue Post number 3.
If you go back up and look at post number 3, you will see that it is not visible for us to know who is saying what!!
...as I was just saying on another thread.

My posts are actually easier to read the yours.

You pile a bunch of things at the bottom of a response and we have to go back up and match what you're saying to what you're responding to. And it's all in the same font size ect. That is hard to follow.

As well, you're the only one having a problem.

 

[Helen]

Oh yay!
I just tried your message box...and it allowed me to send one!! :)