No. See Church history for documentation.
see the Bible eph 4:5 Jude 1:3
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No. See Church history for documentation.
see the Bible eph 4:5 Jude 1:3
If truth is immutable and cannot change why does the catholic church change it all the time? For example, they got this idea to make people pay for their salvation through indulgences because the church was short of money, then they didn't make people pay for their salvation through indulgences.Truth must be revealed by God, and in its fullness in the sacred deposit of faith by Christ to his church! Eph 4:5 Jude 1:3 and must be taught by the church, or proposed for our belief by the apostles!
Matt 28:19-20 Lk 1:4 Jn 20:21 acts 8:31 Rom 1:5 col 2:7 1 Tim 3:15
matt 18:17
Christ and His church are one! acts 9:4 Acts 5:32 Jn 15:1-5
Truth is immutable! Cannot change!
And same truths revealed by Christ and taught by the church are always believed and taught from the beginning when Christ taught his church in person! Jude 1:3 the faith once delivered to the saints or the deposit of faith eph 4:5 one faith!
Truth must be revealed by God thru Christ to His church (the apostles Jude 1:3) then must be proposed by the church, (Matt 28:19 gal 3:23) without error by the Holy Spirit! (Jn 16:13)
The evidence of true faith is humble subjection and obedience to Christ & His holy church!
The rule of faith for Christians is Jesus Christ Jn 14:6 and His church! Matt 18:17 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15
True Christians cannot listen to the errors of excommunicated heretics, but we listen faithfully to Christ, in the bosom of holy mother church, the only ark of salvation!
1 pet 3:20-21 matt 18:17 matt 16:18-19 matt 28:19-20 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-23
Truth must be revealed by God thru Christ to His church (the apostles Jude 1:3) then must be proposed by the church, (Matt 28:19 gal 3:23) without error by the Holy Spirit! (Jn 16:13)
Christ and His church are one! (Acts 9:4 eph 5:31 Jn 15:1-5)
Rejection of the one true church or its teaching is rejection of Christ and God!
Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32 Jn 8:12 & Matt 5:14
Which further supports my rather unremarkable point.
If truth is immutable and cannot change why does the catholic church change it all the time? For example, they got this idea to make people pay for their salvation through indulgences because the church was short of money, then they didn't make people pay for their salvation through indulgences.
we must be taught!
We cannot read scriptures and decide doctrine for ourselves according to scripture we must be “taught”!
Lk 1:4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.
Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
Acts 4:1-2
1 And as they spake unto the people, the priests, and the captain of the temple, and the Sadducees, came upon them,
2 Being grieved that they taught the people, and preached through Jesus the resurrection from the dead.
Acts 8:31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
Acts 18:25
This man was instructed in the way of the Lord;
1 thes 4:6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.
2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Thanks. As you know, I agree with all of this.
*
Will someone kindly nudge the jukebox?
Exodus 15:2
The Lord is my strength and song, and he is become my salvation: he ismy God, and I will prepare him an habitation; my father's God, and I will exalt him.
Psalm 118:14
The Lord is my strength and song, and is become my salvation.
Is God our salvation?
Lk 2:30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation.
so Jesus must be God?
you are vastly mistaken!
Salvation has nothing to do with indulgences!
nor do indulgences have anything to do with the forgiveness of sin!
Salvation is God’s mercy to us thru His church by grace thru the sacraments!
An indulgence is a merit of Jesus Christ thru his blood passion and death! Jn 1:16 & 1:29
Cannot sell indulgences
There were indulgences granted to those who supported the building of saint peters, not selling, (donations) but if you chose to make a donation you could get an indulgence, but there were and are many other ways to get them without making a donation! Not a requirement
You did something and got a favorable response, like buying a dozen dognuts and get one free, they may accuse you cannot selling 13 but you actually only sold 12 and gave one free.
Salvation is of grace with mercy and the forgiveness of sins, but the temporal punishment due to sin Christ did not take away, just like he did not take away our sin nature and restore up to the state of innocence in the garden.
Example: a child breaks a window with his baseball, his father forgives him totally, but the child work and earn money to pay for the window, and we must pray, fast, alms, penance, carry our cross and practice Christian virtues to expiate the temporal punishment due to our sins, God provides for everything in His goodness and gives us ample means to do this, and it purifies our souls in this life or if not he also provides a means of purification in the next.
And we can pray for and do penance and gain indulgences for those being purified since they are in the communion of saints like us and those already perfected in heaven!
An indulgence can only be applied to the punishment due for sins already forgiven!
From Christ’s merits! Jn 1:16-17
Another classic smorgasbord invented by the catholic church to keep everyone in submission to the man that is called father when the bible is clear CALL NO MAN FATHER.
Another classic smorgasbord invented by the catholic church to keep everyone in submission to the man that is called father when the bible is clear CALL NO MAN FATHER.
you are vastly mistaken!
Salvation has nothing to do with indulgences!
nor do indulgences have anything to do with the forgiveness of sin!
Salvation is God’s mercy to us thru His church by grace thru the sacraments!
An indulgence is a merit of Jesus Christ thru his blood passion and death! Jn 1:16 & 1:29
Cannot sell indulgences
There were indulgences granted to those who supported the building of saint peters, not selling, (donations) but if you chose to make a donation you could get an indulgence, but there were and are many other ways to get them without making a donation! Not a requirement
You did something and got a favorable response, like buying a dozen dognuts and get one free, they may accuse you cannot selling 13 but you actually only sold 12 and gave one free.
Salvation is of grace with mercy and the forgiveness of sins, but the temporal punishment due to sin Christ did not take away, just like he did not take away our sin nature and restore up to the state of innocence in the garden.
Example: a child breaks a window with his baseball, his father forgives him totally, but the child work and earn money to pay for the window, and we must pray, fast, alms, penance, carry our cross and practice Christian virtues to expiate the temporal punishment due to our sins, God provides for everything in His goodness and gives us ample means to do this, and it purifies our souls in this life or if not he also provides a means of purification in the next.
And we can pray for and do penance and gain indulgences for those being purified since they are in the communion of saints like us and those already perfected in heaven!
An indulgence can only be applied to the punishment due for sins already forgiven!
From Christ’s merits! Jn 1:16-17
Another classic smorgasbord invented by the catholic church to keep everyone in submission to the man that is called father when the bible is clear CALL NO MAN FATHER.
I know I am not as perfect as you but you are the one that is mistaken because I read it in a catholic book that explained what indulgences were. If I am mistaken that means the catholic church is mistaken.
Matt 23:9
Call no man Father?
Either it is the truth or it is not.
You must call no one on earth your FATHER, since you only have one FATHER, and he is in heaven. note NO ONE. That is right NO ONE. If you want to disobey scripture be my guest.
The fact that Paul rebuked Peter doesn’t mean that Peter WASN’T in charge.That is like assuming Lord Jesus had NO MINISTRY FOR THE OTHER APOSTLES, especially Apostle Paul. And Paul... REBUKED PETER in Galatians 2! So you need to quit trying to pump Peter up like a god (which I know why you do that, because your Catholic teachers taught you to do that to pump up the office of 'bishop of bishops', of which there is NOTHING in written in Bible Scripture about such a political position!)
Spoken like a person who simply READS the bible – but doesn’t have a CLUE as to what it is actually saying.Another classic smorgasbord invented by the catholic church to keep everyone in submission to the man that is called father when the bible is clear CALL NO MAN FATHER.
The fact that Paul rebuked Peter doesn’t mean that Peter WASN’T in charge.
It simply means that Peter needed some rebukin’ for his behavior.
St. Catherine of Sienna rebuked the Pope in her day (Gregory XI) and convinced him to leave Avignon, France and return the Papacy to its rightful place in Rome. That didn’t mean SHE was in charge – NOR did it diminish HIS authority.
It would have been different if Paul and Catherin of Siena rebuked them for their TEACHINGS and not their behavior.
Peter and his successors were CLEARLY in charge.
- Tell me WHY Jesus singled out Peter when He gave him the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven (Matt. 16:18-19) if did not put him in charge.
- Tell me WHY Jesus asked Peter and Peter alone to feed His lambs and tend His sheep (John 21:15-19) if did not put him in charge.
- Tell me WHY Jesus said that He prayed for Peter ALONE to strengthen the others and bring them back to faith (Luke 22:31-32) if did not put him in charge.
- Tell me WHY Peter's name occurs first in all lists of apostles (Matt. 10:2; Mk 3:16; Luke 6:14; Acts 1:13) if he was not in charge??
- Tell me WHY Peter is specified by an angel as the leader and representative of the apostles (Mark 16:7) if he was not in charge??
- Tell me WHY Peter takes the lead in calling for a successor for Judas (Acts 1:22) if He was not in charge??
- Tell me WHY Peter is the first person to speak (and only one recorded) after Pentecost, making him the first Christian to preach the Gospel in the Church (Acts 2:14-36) if he was not in charge??
- Tell me WHY Peter works the first miracle of the Church Age, healing a lame man (Acts 3:6-12) if he was not in charge??
- Tell me WHY Peter utters the first anathema (Ananias and Sapphira) affirmed by God (Acts 5:2-11) if He was not in charge??
- Tell me WHY Peter is the first person after Christ to raise the dead (Acts 9:40) if he was not in charge??
- Tell me WHY Cornelius is told by an angel to seek out Peter for instruction in Christianity (Acts 10:1-6) if he was not in charge??
- Tell me WHY Peter's name is mentioned more often than all the other disciples put together if He was not in charge??
In the Epistle of Clement (circa, 80-AD), Pope Clement of Rome ruled on a controversial matter in the church at Corinth which had its own Bishop. WHY would Clement rule on a matter concerning the Church in a location if he was NOT in charge??
You may not LIKE the idea of Papal Authority and the Chair of Peter – but that DOESN’T mean that it doesn’t exist.
Ahhhhh - I see where your confusion lies. YOU actually believe that there are TWO Churches - one for Jews and one for Gentiles.Nowhere in God's Word is Apostle Peter made overseer of all of Christ's Churches! That was specifically Apostle Paul's MINISTRY...
Regarding Apostle Paul:
2 Cor 11:28
28 Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches.
KJV
Rom 11:13
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
KJV
Rom 15:16
16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.
KJV
1 Cor 7:17
17 But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.
KJV
Acts 9:15
15 But the Lord said unto him, "Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto Me, to bear My name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:"
KJV
You have OBVIOUSLY... not read those above Scriptures about Apostle Paul's Ministry, not only to the Gentiles, but ALSO to the Israelites, and to the kings!
Just WHAT KIND OF CHURCH does your Catholic history claim for Apostle Peter? Is the Catholic Church a JEWISH CHURCH made up only of Jewish believers on Jesus Christ? No... it has MANY members from among the Gentiles, probably the majority of its members are Gentiles.
Then how is it, that Jesus made Apostle Paul the ordained Apostle to the Gentiles, and NOT Apostle Peter?!?
I choose to go by what my Bible says, and NOT the confusion of what those in Rome say.
Ahhhhh - I see where your confusion lies. YOU actually believe that there are TWO Churches - one for Jews and one for Gentiles.