“Bible alone” is the cos of confusion!

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marksman

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Truth must be revealed by God, and in its fullness in the sacred deposit of faith by Christ to his church! Eph 4:5 Jude 1:3 and must be taught by the church, or proposed for our belief by the apostles!
Matt 28:19-20 Lk 1:4 Jn 20:21 acts 8:31 Rom 1:5 col 2:7 1 Tim 3:15
matt 18:17

Christ and His church are one! acts 9:4 Acts 5:32 Jn 15:1-5

Truth is immutable! Cannot change!

And same truths revealed by Christ and taught by the church are always believed and taught from the beginning when Christ taught his church in person! Jude 1:3 the faith once delivered to the saints or the deposit of faith eph 4:5 one faith!


Truth must be revealed by God thru Christ to His church (the apostles Jude 1:3) then must be proposed by the church, (Matt 28:19 gal 3:23) without error by the Holy Spirit! (Jn 16:13)

The evidence of true faith is humble subjection and obedience to Christ & His holy church!

The rule of faith for Christians is Jesus Christ Jn 14:6 and His church! Matt 18:17 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

True Christians cannot listen to the errors of excommunicated heretics, but we listen faithfully to Christ, in the bosom of holy mother church, the only ark of salvation!
1 pet 3:20-21 matt 18:17 matt 16:18-19 matt 28:19-20 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-23

Truth must be revealed by God thru Christ to His church (the apostles Jude 1:3) then must be proposed by the church, (Matt 28:19 gal 3:23) without error by the Holy Spirit! (Jn 16:13)

Christ and His church are one! (Acts 9:4 eph 5:31 Jn 15:1-5)

Rejection of the one true church or its teaching is rejection of Christ and God!

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32 Jn 8:12 & Matt 5:14
If truth is immutable and cannot change why does the catholic church change it all the time? For example, they got this idea to make people pay for their salvation through indulgences because the church was short of money, then they didn't make people pay for their salvation through indulgences.
 

theefaith

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Which further supports my rather unremarkable point.

we must be taught!

We cannot read scriptures and decide doctrine for ourselves according to scripture we must be “taught”!

Lk 1:4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Acts 4:1-2
1 And as they spake unto the people, the priests, and the captain of the temple, and the Sadducees, came upon them,

2 Being grieved that they taught the people, and preached through Jesus the resurrection from the dead.

Acts 8:31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

Acts 18:25
This man was instructed in the way of the Lord;

1 thes 4:6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
 

theefaith

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If truth is immutable and cannot change why does the catholic church change it all the time? For example, they got this idea to make people pay for their salvation through indulgences because the church was short of money, then they didn't make people pay for their salvation through indulgences.

you are vastly mistaken!

Salvation has nothing to do with indulgences!

nor do indulgences have anything to do with the forgiveness of sin!

Salvation is God’s mercy to us thru His church by grace thru the sacraments!

An indulgence is a merit of Jesus Christ thru his blood passion and death! Jn 1:16 & 1:29

Cannot sell indulgences
There were indulgences granted to those who supported the building of saint peters, not selling, (donations) but if you chose to make a donation you could get an indulgence, but there were and are many other ways to get them without making a donation! Not a requirement

You did something and got a favorable response, like buying a dozen dognuts and get one free, they may accuse you cannot selling 13 but you actually only sold 12 and gave one free.

Salvation is of grace with mercy and the forgiveness of sins, but the temporal punishment due to sin Christ did not take away, just like he did not take away our sin nature and restore up to the state of innocence in the garden.

Example: a child breaks a window with his baseball, his father forgives him totally, but the child work and earn money to pay for the window, and we must pray, fast, alms, penance, carry our cross and practice Christian virtues to expiate the temporal punishment due to our sins, God provides for everything in His goodness and gives us ample means to do this, and it purifies our souls in this life or if not he also provides a means of purification in the next.

And we can pray for and do penance and gain indulgences for those being purified since they are in the communion of saints like us and those already perfected in heaven!

An indulgence can only be applied to the punishment due for sins already forgiven!
From Christ’s merits! Jn 1:16-17
 

Matthias

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we must be taught!

We cannot read scriptures and decide doctrine for ourselves according to scripture we must be “taught”!

Lk 1:4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Acts 4:1-2
1 And as they spake unto the people, the priests, and the captain of the temple, and the Sadducees, came upon them,

2 Being grieved that they taught the people, and preached through Jesus the resurrection from the dead.

Acts 8:31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

Acts 18:25
This man was instructed in the way of the Lord;

1 thes 4:6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Thanks. As you know, I agree with all of this.

*

Will someone kindly nudge the jukebox?
 

theefaith

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Thanks. As you know, I agree with all of this.

*

Will someone kindly nudge the jukebox?

Exodus 15:2
The Lord is my strength and song, and he is become my salvation: he ismy God, and I will prepare him an habitation; my father's God, and I will exalt him.

Psalm 118:14
The Lord is my strength and song, and is become my salvation.

Is God our salvation?

Lk 2:30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation.

so Jesus must be God?
 

Matthias

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Exodus 15:2
The Lord is my strength and song, and he is become my salvation: he ismy God, and I will prepare him an habitation; my father's God, and I will exalt him.

Psalm 118:14
The Lord is my strength and song, and is become my salvation.

Is God our salvation?

The Messiah’s God is.

Lk 2:30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation.

so Jesus must be God?

In some sense, yes.
 

marksman

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you are vastly mistaken!

Salvation has nothing to do with indulgences!

nor do indulgences have anything to do with the forgiveness of sin!

Salvation is God’s mercy to us thru His church by grace thru the sacraments!

An indulgence is a merit of Jesus Christ thru his blood passion and death! Jn 1:16 & 1:29

Cannot sell indulgences
There were indulgences granted to those who supported the building of saint peters, not selling, (donations) but if you chose to make a donation you could get an indulgence, but there were and are many other ways to get them without making a donation! Not a requirement

You did something and got a favorable response, like buying a dozen dognuts and get one free, they may accuse you cannot selling 13 but you actually only sold 12 and gave one free.

Salvation is of grace with mercy and the forgiveness of sins, but the temporal punishment due to sin Christ did not take away, just like he did not take away our sin nature and restore up to the state of innocence in the garden.

Example: a child breaks a window with his baseball, his father forgives him totally, but the child work and earn money to pay for the window, and we must pray, fast, alms, penance, carry our cross and practice Christian virtues to expiate the temporal punishment due to our sins, God provides for everything in His goodness and gives us ample means to do this, and it purifies our souls in this life or if not he also provides a means of purification in the next.

And we can pray for and do penance and gain indulgences for those being purified since they are in the communion of saints like us and those already perfected in heaven!

An indulgence can only be applied to the punishment due for sins already forgiven!
From Christ’s merits! Jn 1:16-17

Another classic smorgasbord invented by the catholic church to keep everyone in submission to the man that is called father when the bible is clear CALL NO MAN FATHER.
 

marksman

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Another classic smorgasbord invented by the catholic church to keep everyone in submission to the man that is called father when the bible is clear CALL NO MAN FATHER.
Another classic smorgasbord invented by the catholic church to keep everyone in submission to the man that is called father when the bible is clear CALL NO MAN FATHER.
you are vastly mistaken!

Salvation has nothing to do with indulgences!

nor do indulgences have anything to do with the forgiveness of sin!

Salvation is God’s mercy to us thru His church by grace thru the sacraments!

An indulgence is a merit of Jesus Christ thru his blood passion and death! Jn 1:16 & 1:29

Cannot sell indulgences
There were indulgences granted to those who supported the building of saint peters, not selling, (donations) but if you chose to make a donation you could get an indulgence, but there were and are many other ways to get them without making a donation! Not a requirement

You did something and got a favorable response, like buying a dozen dognuts and get one free, they may accuse you cannot selling 13 but you actually only sold 12 and gave one free.

Salvation is of grace with mercy and the forgiveness of sins, but the temporal punishment due to sin Christ did not take away, just like he did not take away our sin nature and restore up to the state of innocence in the garden.

Example: a child breaks a window with his baseball, his father forgives him totally, but the child work and earn money to pay for the window, and we must pray, fast, alms, penance, carry our cross and practice Christian virtues to expiate the temporal punishment due to our sins, God provides for everything in His goodness and gives us ample means to do this, and it purifies our souls in this life or if not he also provides a means of purification in the next.

And we can pray for and do penance and gain indulgences for those being purified since they are in the communion of saints like us and those already perfected in heaven!

An indulgence can only be applied to the punishment due for sins already forgiven!
From Christ’s merits! Jn 1:16-17


I know I am not as perfect as you but you are the one that is mistaken because I read it in a catholic book that explained what indulgences were. If I am mistaken that means the catholic church is mistaken.
 

theefaith

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Another classic smorgasbord invented by the catholic church to keep everyone in submission to the man that is called father when the bible is clear CALL NO MAN FATHER.

Really?

I would especially like hear your explanation of Jn 4:20?

Matt 23:9
Call no man Father?

Is this an absolute requirement?
Or is Our Savior condemning pride and spiritual pride of the Pharisees?

God calls men father!

Ex 3:6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

Jesus calls men father!

Jn 6:49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.

Mary calls men father!

Lk 1:55 As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.

Peter calls men father!

Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.

Acts 3:22 Moses said unto the fathers…

The stephen calls men father!

Acts 7 Stephen quotes the fathers over and over!

The Bible calls men father!

Luke 16:24
And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.


Acts 3:13
The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.


Jn 4:20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.

Jesus does not rebuke her for calling men father!


Then there is spiritual fathers!

Spiritual Fathers have care for our souls!

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep:

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

1 Tim 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you

1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

That makes Peter, Paul and John spiritual fathers, pastors of our souls!


Isa 22 the administrator of the kingdom is called father, so the same for Peter, the apostles, and their successors!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, so send in you. (The apostles) posses the same power mission and authority as Christ!
Peter, the apostles and their successors!


Eph 3: 14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,

15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,

every family in heaven and on earth is named from the “Father.” We are fathers in the Father.

Acts 7:2; 22:1, 1 John 2:13 – elders of the Church are called “fathers.” Therefore, we should ask the question, “Why don’t Protestants call their pastors “father?”

1 Cor. 4:17 – Paul calls Bishop Timothy a beloved and faithful “child” in the Lord.

2 Cor. 12:14 – Paul describes his role as parent over his “children” the Corinthians.

Phil. 2:22 – Paul calls Timothy’s service to him as a son serves a “father.”

1 Thess. 2:11- Paul compares the Church elders’ ministry to the people like a father with his children.

1 Tim. 1:2,18; 2 Tim. 1:2-3 – Paul calls Timothy his true “child” in the faith and his son.

Titus 1:4 – Paul calls Titus his true “child” in a common faith. Priests are our spiritual fathers in the family of God.

Philemon 10 – Paul says he has become the “father” of Onesimus.

Heb. 12:7,9 – emphasizes our earthly “fathers.” But these are not just biological but also spiritual (the priests of the Church).

1 Peter 5:13 – Peter refers to himself as father by calling Mark his “son.”

1 John 2:1,1 John 2:13,14 – John calls the elders of the Church “fathers.”

Isa 22:21-22 the prime minister who administer the kingdom under the king in the line of david Lk 1:32-23 has the title father and hold the keys Matt 16:18
 

theefaith

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I know I am not as perfect as you but you are the one that is mistaken because I read it in a catholic book that explained what indulgences were. If I am mistaken that means the catholic church is mistaken.

what book?
 

marksman

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Matt 23:9
Call no man Father?

Either it is the truth or it is not.

You must call no one on earth your FATHER, since you only have one FATHER, and he is in heaven. note NO ONE. That is right NO ONE. If you want to disobey scripture be my guest.
 

theefaith

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Either it is the truth or it is not.

You must call no one on earth your FATHER, since you only have one FATHER, and he is in heaven. note NO ONE. That is right NO ONE. If you want to disobey scripture be my guest.

you got a lot of scripture to explain!

Especially Jn 4:20

Matt 23:9
Call no man father? Jesus is condemning pride and spiritual pride of the Pharisees?

Or is this absolute?

God calls men father!

Ex 3:6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

Jesus calls men father!

Jn 6:49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.

Mary calls men father!

Lk 1:55 As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.

Peter calls men father!

Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.

Acts 3:22 Moses said unto the fathers…

The stephen calls men father!

Acts 7 Stephen quotes the fathers over and over!

The Bible calls men father!

Luke 16:24
And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.


Acts 3:13
The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.


Jn 4:20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.

Jesus does not rebuke her for calling men father!
 

BreadOfLife

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That is like assuming Lord Jesus had NO MINISTRY FOR THE OTHER APOSTLES, especially Apostle Paul. And Paul... REBUKED PETER in Galatians 2! So you need to quit trying to pump Peter up like a god (which I know why you do that, because your Catholic teachers taught you to do that to pump up the office of 'bishop of bishops', of which there is NOTHING in written in Bible Scripture about such a political position!)
The fact that Paul rebuked Peter doesn’t mean that Peter WASN’T in charge.
It simply means that Peter needed some rebukin’ for his behavior.

St. Catherine of Sienna rebuked the Pope in her day (Gregory XI) and convinced him to leave Avignon, France and return the Papacy to its rightful place in Rome. That didn’t mean SHE was in charge – NOR did it diminish HIS authority.
It would have been different if Paul and Catherin of Siena rebuked them for their TEACHINGS and not their behavior.

Peter and his successors were CLEARLY in charge.
- Tell me WHY Jesus singled out Peter when He gave him the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven (Matt. 16:18-19) if did not put him in charge.

- Tell me WHY Jesus asked Peter and Peter alone to feed His lambs and tend His sheep (John 21:15-19) if did not put him in charge.

- Tell me WHY Jesus said that He prayed for Peter ALONE to strengthen the others and bring them back to faith (Luke 22:31-32) if did not put him in charge.

- Tell me WHY Peter's name occurs first in all lists of apostles (Matt. 10:2; Mk 3:16; Luke 6:14; Acts 1:13) if he was not in charge??

- Tell me WHY Peter is specified by an angel as the leader and representative of the apostles (Mark 16:7) if he was not in charge??

- Tell me WHY Peter takes the lead in calling for a successor for Judas (Acts 1:22) if He was not in charge??

- Tell me WHY Peter is the first person to speak (and only one recorded) after Pentecost, making him the first Christian to preach the Gospel in the Church (Acts 2:14-36) if he was not in charge??

- Tell me WHY Peter works the first miracle of the Church Age, healing a lame man (Acts 3:6-12) if he was not in charge??

- Tell me WHY Peter utters the first anathema (Ananias and Sapphira) affirmed by God (Acts 5:2-11) if He was not in charge??

- Tell me WHY Peter is the first person after Christ to raise the dead (Acts 9:40) if he was not in charge??

- Tell me WHY Cornelius is told by an angel to seek out Peter for instruction in Christianity (Acts 10:1-6) if he was not in charge??

- Tell me WHY Peter's name is mentioned more often than all the other disciples put together if He was not in charge??

In the Epistle of Clement (circa, 80-AD), Pope Clement of Rome ruled on a controversial matter in the church at Corinth which had its own Bishop. WHY would Clement rule on a matter concerning the Church in a location if he was NOT in charge??

You may not LIKE the idea of Papal Authority and the Chair of Peter – but that DOESN’T mean that it doesn’t exist.
 

BreadOfLife

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Another classic smorgasbord invented by the catholic church to keep everyone in submission to the man that is called father when the bible is clear CALL NO MAN FATHER.
Spoken like a person who simply READS the bible – but doesn’t have a CLUE as to what it is actually saying.

In Matt. 23:9, Jesus wasn’t “forbidding” anybody from calling men “Father”. He was speaking of the Pharisees, who exalted themselves above everybody when He said that we shouldn’t consider anybody “Father” ABOVE our Father in Heaven. In the verse that precedes this (Matt. 23:8), He said that they shouldn’t call anybody “Teacher”, either.

YOUR problem is that you fail to understand the CONTEXT of Scripture.
The man who impregnated your mother is your FATHER. The person who taught you how to spell in the 2nd grad was your TEACHER – and you had PLENTY of those.
NONE of these people was a Father or Teacher ABOVE your Father and Teacher in Heaven.

Consider the following passages:
GOD said, “Honor your FATHER and your mother” (Exod. 20:12).

Jesus said, “Your FATHER Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.” (John 8:56).

Stephen refers to "our FATHER Abraham," (Acts 7:2).

Paul speaks of "our FATHER Isaac” (Romans 9:10).

For I became your FATHER in Christ Jesus through the gospel" (1 Cor. 4:14–15).

"For this I was appointed a preacher and apostle . . . a TEACHER of the Gentiles in faith and truth" (1 Tim. 2:7).

"For this gospel I was appointed a preacher and apostle and TEACHER " (2 Tim. 1:11).

"God has appointed in the church first Apostles, second prophets, third TEACHERS" (1 Cor. 12:28).


Learn how to RIGHTLY DIVIDE the Word of God . . .
 

Davy

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The fact that Paul rebuked Peter doesn’t mean that Peter WASN’T in charge.
It simply means that Peter needed some rebukin’ for his behavior.

St. Catherine of Sienna rebuked the Pope in her day (Gregory XI) and convinced him to leave Avignon, France and return the Papacy to its rightful place in Rome. That didn’t mean SHE was in charge – NOR did it diminish HIS authority.
It would have been different if Paul and Catherin of Siena rebuked them for their TEACHINGS and not their behavior.

Peter and his successors were CLEARLY in charge.
- Tell me WHY Jesus singled out Peter when He gave him the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven (Matt. 16:18-19) if did not put him in charge.

- Tell me WHY Jesus asked Peter and Peter alone to feed His lambs and tend His sheep (John 21:15-19) if did not put him in charge.

- Tell me WHY Jesus said that He prayed for Peter ALONE to strengthen the others and bring them back to faith (Luke 22:31-32) if did not put him in charge.

- Tell me WHY Peter's name occurs first in all lists of apostles (Matt. 10:2; Mk 3:16; Luke 6:14; Acts 1:13) if he was not in charge??

- Tell me WHY Peter is specified by an angel as the leader and representative of the apostles (Mark 16:7) if he was not in charge??

- Tell me WHY Peter takes the lead in calling for a successor for Judas (Acts 1:22) if He was not in charge??

- Tell me WHY Peter is the first person to speak (and only one recorded) after Pentecost, making him the first Christian to preach the Gospel in the Church (Acts 2:14-36) if he was not in charge??

- Tell me WHY Peter works the first miracle of the Church Age, healing a lame man (Acts 3:6-12) if he was not in charge??

- Tell me WHY Peter utters the first anathema (Ananias and Sapphira) affirmed by God (Acts 5:2-11) if He was not in charge??

- Tell me WHY Peter is the first person after Christ to raise the dead (Acts 9:40) if he was not in charge??

- Tell me WHY Cornelius is told by an angel to seek out Peter for instruction in Christianity (Acts 10:1-6) if he was not in charge??

- Tell me WHY Peter's name is mentioned more often than all the other disciples put together if He was not in charge??

In the Epistle of Clement (circa, 80-AD), Pope Clement of Rome ruled on a controversial matter in the church at Corinth which had its own Bishop. WHY would Clement rule on a matter concerning the Church in a location if he was NOT in charge??

You may not LIKE the idea of Papal Authority and the Chair of Peter – but that DOESN’T mean that it doesn’t exist.

Nowhere in God's Word is Apostle Peter made overseer of all of Christ's Churches! That was specifically Apostle Paul's MINISTRY...

Regarding Apostle Paul:

2 Cor 11:28
28 Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches.

KJV

Rom 11:13
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

KJV

Rom 15:16
16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.

KJV

1 Cor 7:17
17 But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.

KJV

Acts 9:15
15 But the Lord said unto him, "Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto Me, to bear My name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:"

KJV

You have OBVIOUSLY... not read those above Scriptures about Apostle Paul's Ministry, not only to the Gentiles, but ALSO to the Israelites, and to the kings!

Just WHAT KIND OF CHURCH does your Catholic history claim for Apostle Peter? Is the Catholic Church a JEWISH CHURCH made up only of Jewish believers on Jesus Christ? No... it has MANY members from among the Gentiles, probably the majority of its members are Gentiles.

Then how is it, that Jesus made Apostle Paul the ordained Apostle to the Gentiles, and NOT Apostle Peter?!?


I choose to go by what my Bible says, and NOT the confusion of what those in Rome say.
 

BreadOfLife

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Nowhere in God's Word is Apostle Peter made overseer of all of Christ's Churches! That was specifically Apostle Paul's MINISTRY...

Regarding Apostle Paul:

2 Cor 11:28
28 Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches.

KJV

Rom 11:13
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

KJV

Rom 15:16
16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.

KJV

1 Cor 7:17
17 But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.

KJV

Acts 9:15
15 But the Lord said unto him, "Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto Me, to bear My name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:"

KJV

You have OBVIOUSLY... not read those above Scriptures about Apostle Paul's Ministry, not only to the Gentiles, but ALSO to the Israelites, and to the kings!

Just WHAT KIND OF CHURCH does your Catholic history claim for Apostle Peter? Is the Catholic Church a JEWISH CHURCH made up only of Jewish believers on Jesus Christ? No... it has MANY members from among the Gentiles, probably the majority of its members are Gentiles.

Then how is it, that Jesus made Apostle Paul the ordained Apostle to the Gentiles, and NOT Apostle Peter?!?

I choose to go by what my Bible says, and NOT the confusion of what those in Rome say.
Ahhhhh - I see where your confusion lies. YOU actually believe that there are TWO Churches - one for Jews and one for Gentiles.
This is a perversion of the Word f God.

At the Last Supper, Jesus prayed for the UNITY of His Church - they they all remain ONE, as He and the Father are ONE (John 17:20-23). The Bible speaks of Paul's Ministry to the Gentiles - but NOWHERE does it even imply that he was in charge of the Church.
I noticed that your response is filled with denial - but not a SINGE refutation of the Scriptural evidence I presented for the primacy of Peter.
Gee - I WONDER why that is??

And speaking of Paul - he refeers to Peter as "Cephas" in his Letters.
Do YOU have ANY idea why?
I'll wait right here for your informed response . . .
 

Davy

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Ahhhhh - I see where your confusion lies. YOU actually believe that there are TWO Churches - one for Jews and one for Gentiles.

WRONG AGAIN!

There is only ONE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST, and it is of THE SPIRIT, not a physical location like Rome!

John 4:24
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth.
KJV


That is why... a physical building only exists as a SYMBOL, and is NOT Christ's actual Church! If the building were destroyed it would mean the end of His Church, which is why it is impossible for a building or ANY man-made structure to mean His True Church.

Here is what God's Word says the FOUNDATION of Christ's Church is built upon...

Eph 2:19-22
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief corner stone;


21 In Whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:


22 In Whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

KJV

Sorry, I don't see a pope mentioned... ANYWHERE in that FOUNDATION!