“Bible alone” is the cos of confusion!

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theefaith

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Luther didn't want to end the Catholic system. It was the extraneous doctrines those in control of the Catholic system had added and gotten away from the simplicity of Bible Scripture that he wanted to try and correct. Instead of Luther causing a correction, God did it. And thus came the Protestant Faith, which in reality had always existed from the 1st century Apostles and disciples in the first place, that early history of the Church being in Britain.

What doctrines are you thinking of?

thats you’re fantasy!


Truth must be revealed by God, and in its fullness in the sacred deposit of faith by Christ to his church! Eph 4:5 Jude 1:3 and must be taught by the church, or proposed for our belief by the apostles!
Matt 28:19-20 Lk 1:4 Jn 20:21 acts 8:31 Rom 1:5 col 2:7 1 Tim 3:15
matt 18:17

Christ and His church are one! acts 9:4 Acts 5:32 Jn 15:1-5

Truth is immutable! Cannot change!

And same truths revealed by Christ and taught by the church are always believed and taught from the beginning when Christ taught his church in person! Jude 1:3 the faith once delivered to the saints or the deposit of faith eph 4:5 one faith!


Truth must be revealed by God thru Christ to His church (the apostles Jude 1:3) then must be proposed by the church, (Matt 28:19 gal 3:23) without error by the Holy Spirit! (Jn 16:13)

The evidence of true faith is humble subjection and obedience to Christ & His holy church!

The rule of faith for Christians is Jesus Christ Jn 14:6 and His church! Matt 18:17 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

True Christians cannot listen to the errors of excommunicated heretics, but we listen faithfully to Christ, in the bosom of holy mother church, the only ark of salvation!
1 pet 3:20-21 matt 18:17 matt 16:18-19 matt 28:19-20 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-23

Truth must be revealed by God thru Christ to His church (the apostles Jude 1:3) then must be proposed by the church, (Matt 28:19 gal 3:23) without error by the Holy Spirit! (Jn 16:13)

Christ and His church are one! (Acts 9:4 eph 5:31 Jn 15:1-5)

Rejection of the one true church or its teaching is rejection of Christ and God!

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32 Jn 8:12 & Matt 5:14
 

Davy

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What doctrines are you thinking of?

thats you’re fantasy!

The early Christian Church in Britain BEFORE Rome converted to Christ was a REALITY, and not a "fantasy".

You Catholics love to deny that history of the early British Church, but it's not going to go away. It is part of Christian history. Britain, NOT Rome, was first to convert to Christ Jesus on a national scale. Even when Augustine (4th century A.D.) arrived in Britain he said he found bishops of the Christian Church (not Cathollic) already there, and that they refused any authority by a pope in Rome.

British Christians in Rome Before Paul Ever Arrived | Clifton Emahiser's Watchman's Teaching Ministries
 

theefaith

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The early Christian Church in Britain BEFORE Rome converted to Christ was a REALITY, and not a "fantasy".

You Catholics love to deny that history of the early British Church, but it's not going to go away. It is part of Christian history. Britain, NOT Rome, was first to convert to Christ Jesus on a national scale. Even when Augustine (4th century A.D.) arrived in Britain he said he found bishops of the Christian Church (not Cathollic) already there, and that they refused any authority by a pope in Rome.

British Christians in Rome Before Paul Ever Arrived | Clifton Emahiser's Watchman's Teaching Ministries

only one church Jn 10:16 one founder Matt 16:18-19 on Peter and those in union with him
 

Davy

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only one church Jn 10:16 one founder Matt 16:18-19 on Peter and those in union with him

Only reason you are taught to say that is because of what you've been taught that the pope is representative of Apostle Peter's office. The fact that the British bishops would not recognize a pope in Rome ought to reveal something to you.

The office of a pope (or 'bishop of bishops') didn't even come about until bishops in Rome and bishops in Byzantine were at odds at each other jockeying for political position. So how could that ever descend from Apostle Peter??? Made up tradition, that's all the pope office is.
 

theefaith

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Only reason you are taught to say that is because of what you've been taught that the pope is representative of Apostle Peter's office. The fact that the British bishops would not recognize a pope in Rome ought to reveal something to you.

The office of a pope (or 'bishop of bishops') didn't even come about until bishops in Rome and bishops in Byzantine were at odds at each other jockeying for political position. So how could that ever descend from Apostle Peter??? Made up tradition, that's all the pope office is.


Jesus Christ is the rock of salvation!

Peter is the rock that the church is built on by Christ alone!

Lk 22
All apostles But Jesus prays for Peter alone

Jn 21:17 Peter entrusted with the flock or church

Only Peter and His successors have
Jurisdictional authority from Christ to govern the church!

Already acting in the person of Christ even acting as intermediary!

It is Jesus Christ who identifies peter with himself!

Matt 17:24 And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?

25 He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the houser, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?

26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.

27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.

It is Jesus Christ who identifies peter with himself! Matt 17:27

Jesus Christ gives the keys of the kingdom to peter matt 16:18-19 making him prime minister applying Isa 22:21-22 to peter

It’s Christ who does this

Why is the name of peter even mentioned?

Why does Christ change Peter’s name, God changing a persons name like Abram to Abraham or Jacob to Israel always signifies a mission or ministry!

Why does Christ give him the keys of jurisdictional authority that the prime minister holds under the king to administer the kingdom? Isa 22:21-22

How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?

How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)

How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?


also have to explain
Isa 22:21-22 jurisdictional authority of the keys and called father
Matt 28:19 go teach baptize
Jn 20:21-23 same mission power and authority as christ
Eph 2:20 church built on the apostles
Matt 23 successors of Moses have the jurisdictional authority and the power to bind and loose which Christ says must be obeyed, then taken from them matt 21:43 given to Peter and the apostles and their successors

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.



Applies only to Peter as “prince of the apostles”!

Peter and his successors are the Leader of the apostles and the head of the church until Christ returns!

First and chief apostle!

Matt 10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter,

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Lk 22:32 Christ prayed for Peter!

Peter is head of the church on earth in the place of Christ until His return!

Isa 22:21-22 21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.

22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

Matt 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Matt 23:1 power and authority of the kingdom known in the keys and binding and loosing, Matt 21:43 kingdom shall be taken from you given to another who will bear fruit. (Peter the apostles in holy church Lk 22:29)

Matt 17:27 Jesus identified peter with himself.

Matt 16:17 Peter alone received revelation from the Father

Lk 22:32 Peter to strengthen his brethren (the apostles)

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep

Peter exercises his authority over the apostles and the church!

Acts 1:15
Acts 3:4
Acts 5:5 5:10
Acts 10:44
Acts 15:7

ONLY TO PETER CHRIST SAID: THOU ART PETER AND UPON THIS ROCK I WILL BUILT MY CHURCH, AND THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT!Matt 16:18

Peter is the prime minister, father, and head of the church on earth until Christ returns Isa 22:21-22

Seat of peter remains Until Christ returns
Matt 28:19-20


Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.


Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

4 important questions:

1) How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?

2) How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)

3) How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?

4) why did Christ give the keys to Peter (and only to Peter) keys of jurisdictional authority. Isa 22:21-22 why even bother to mention Peter if he is not involved?

Explain Jn 20:21 Peter and the apostles and their successors have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! “As the father sent me, so I send you”!

Matt 28:19 christ communicates his authority to peter and the apostles to teach all nations, baptize all disciples!
Jn 20:21-23 apostles even have authority to forgive sins
Eph 2:20 church built on the apostles
Matt 23 the authority and power of the successors of Moses required to be obeyed are taken from them and given to Peter and the apostles

Jn 21:17
Peter commanded to Feed my sheep:

2 Tim 3: 8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
(Protestants, fundamentalists, etc.)

Christ and His church are one!
God cannot reveal error and the church cannot teach error!

True Christians cannot listen to the errors of excommunicated heretics like luther, calvin, etc. but we listen faithfully to Christ, in the bosom of holy mother church, the only ark of salvation!






Questions about Jesus, Peter, and the keys!

How can Jesus be the builder and the church being built?

If Christ is the rock:

1) Why does Christ even mention Peter?

2) Why did Christ change Peter’s name? (Indicating an office or ministry, similar to Abram & Jacob)

3) Why did Christ give the keys to Peter? (and only to Peter) keys of jurisdictional authority. (Refer to Isa 22:21-22)

4) Why does Christ identify peter with himself! Matt 17:27
Where is the coin for the other apostles?

5) Why is Peter commanded to feed Christ’s sheep (the other apostles) and the lambs? (The people)
Jn 21:17

If Peter’s confession is the rock:

1) How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?

2) How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)

3) How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?


Christ is the Head of the Church.The Pope sits on His seat (position) on earth not in place of Christ as it's Head, but as an indication of his primacy among men living, his honor as governor (for Christ)and his jurisdiction, as the leader of the Church in this realm. Governing a realm, being given a jurisdiction by the King is not replacing the King.
 

Davy

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Jesus Christ is the rock of salvation!

Peter is the rock that the church is built on by Christ alone!

That is like assuming Lord Jesus had NO MINISTRY FOR THE OTHER APOSTLES, especially Apostle Paul. And Paul... REBUKED PETER in Galatians 2! So you need to quit trying to pump Peter up like a god (which I know why you do that, because your Catholic teachers taught you to do that to pump up the office of 'bishop of bishops', of which there is NOTHING in written in Bible Scripture about such a political position!)
 

theefaith

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That is like assuming Lord Jesus had NO MINISTRY FOR THE OTHER APOSTLES, especially Apostle Paul. And Paul... REBUKED PETER in Galatians 2! So you need to quit trying to pump Peter up like a god (which I know why you do that, because your Catholic teachers taught you to do that to pump up the office of 'bishop of bishops', of which there is NOTHING in written in Bible Scripture about such a political position!)

The apostles and their successors have authority in union with Peter in union with Christ by the power of the spirit, Paul as an apostle may rebuke Peter in a matter of discipline
 

Matthias

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The apostles and their successors have authority in union with Peter in union with Christ by the power of the spirit, Paul as an apostle may rebuke Peter in a matter of discipline

Have you ever sat down with the Bible and just read it for yourself, with no thought about what anyone else has thought or said about it?
 

quietthinker

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“Bible alone” is the cos of confusion!
Left dusting on the bookshelf, for sure!
 

theefaith

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Have you ever sat down with the Bible and just read it for yourself, with no thought about what anyone else has thought or said about it?

daily
And all the info I provide is my own study save a quote or two
 

Matthias

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And all the info I provide is my own study save a quote or two

Excellent, but I must say that surprises me.

I know that you don’t consider non-Catholics to be Christian but I’m currently reading a Protestant author who - at least initially, I’ll have to rethink it now - reminded me of you. He’s discussing how to read the Bible and advocating something I thought you would agree with - read scripture with “the Great Tradition” of the Nicene and Apostles’ Creed in mind.
 

theefaith

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Excellent, but I must say that surprises me.

I know that you don’t consider non-Catholics to be Christian but I’m currently reading a Protestant author who - at least initially, I’ll have to rethink it now - reminded me of you. He’s discussing how to read the Bible and advocating something I thought you would agree with - read scripture with “the Great Tradition” of the Nicene and Apostles’ Creed in mind.

sure
Acts 2:42
 

theefaith

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Whatever did Christians do before the Nicene Creed came into existence?

they believed the same faith it was only defined at that time

Truth must be revealed by God, and in its fullness in the sacred deposit of faith by Christ to his church! Eph 4:5 Jude 1:3 and must be taught by the church, or proposed for our belief by the apostles!
Matt 28:19-20 Lk 1:4 Jn 20:21 acts 8:31 Rom 1:5 col 2:7 1 Tim 3:15
matt 18:17

Christ and His church are one! acts 9:4 Acts 5:32 Jn 15:1-5

Truth is immutable! Cannot change!

And same truths revealed by Christ and taught by the church are always believed and taught from the beginning when Christ taught his church in person! Jude 1:3 the faith once delivered to the saints or the deposit of faith eph 4:5 one faith!


Truth must be revealed by God thru Christ to His church (the apostles Jude 1:3) then must be proposed by the church, (Matt 28:19 gal 3:23) without error by the Holy Spirit! (Jn 16:13)

The evidence of true faith is humble subjection and obedience to Christ & His holy church!

The rule of faith for Christians is Jesus Christ Jn 14:6 and His church! Matt 18:17 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

True Christians cannot listen to the errors of excommunicated heretics, but we listen faithfully to Christ, in the bosom of holy mother church, the only ark of salvation!
1 pet 3:20-21 matt 18:17 matt 16:18-19 matt 28:19-20 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-23

Truth must be revealed by God thru Christ to His church (the apostles Jude 1:3) then must be proposed by the church, (Matt 28:19 gal 3:23) without error by the Holy Spirit! (Jn 16:13)
 

Matthias

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they believed the same faith it was only defined at that time

Truth must be revealed by God, and in its fullness in the sacred deposit of faith by Christ to his church! Eph 4:5 Jude 1:3 and must be taught by the church, or proposed for our belief by the apostles!
Matt 28:19-20 Lk 1:4 Jn 20:21 acts 8:31 Rom 1:5 col 2:7 1 Tim 3:15
matt 18:17

Christ and His church are one! acts 9:4 Acts 5:32 Jn 15:1-5

Truth is immutable! Cannot change!

And same truths revealed by Christ and taught by the church are always believed and taught from the beginning when Christ taught his church in person! Jude 1:3 the faith once delivered to the saints or the deposit of faith eph 4:5 one faith!


Truth must be revealed by God thru Christ to His church (the apostles Jude 1:3) then must be proposed by the church, (Matt 28:19 gal 3:23) without error by the Holy Spirit! (Jn 16:13)

The evidence of true faith is humble subjection and obedience to Christ & His holy church!

The rule of faith for Christians is Jesus Christ Jn 14:6 and His church! Matt 18:17 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

True Christians cannot listen to the errors of excommunicated heretics, but we listen faithfully to Christ, in the bosom of holy mother church, the only ark of salvation!
1 pet 3:20-21 matt 18:17 matt 16:18-19 matt 28:19-20 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-23

Truth must be revealed by God thru Christ to His church (the apostles Jude 1:3) then must be proposed by the church, (Matt 28:19 gal 3:23) without error by the Holy Spirit! (Jn 16:13)

No. See Church history for documentation.
 

Matthias

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Jesus and the apostles - 1st century.

Nicene Creed - 4th century.

Neither Jesus nor the apostles were Nicene Creed men; the Trinity is not their God.

How do we know the Trinity is not their God? Jesus himself tells us who his God and their God is.

Jesus and the apostles are Creed of Judaism men / Shema men. The Father and none other is their God.