1 Corinthians 2 is so abused

[CNKW3]

1 Corinthians 1:19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
1 Corinthians 1:20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
1 Corinthians 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
1 Corinthians 1:22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

The entire point of having "eyes to see" talked about by Jesus, is explained here in 1 Corinthians. Two of the spiritual gifts is "preaching" and "teaching", we are told and explained why here, that God commanded that no man can be a "scribe" of the Word of God but only through the "foolishness of preaching to save them that believe". You can not know God or be saved, without the Word of God being preached to you by someone guided by the Holy Spirit with the gift of teaching.

That someone preaching today is guided by the word. Not through some direct operation of the Spirit. This is how we have so many churches teaching and practicing different doctrines. They all say they are led by the Spirit. But it’s funny how the Spirit never teaches the same thing. He teaches the baptist one thing, he teaches the Methodist another, the Catholics something different. Isn’t it funny how the Spirit can never get it straight.

Acts 8:28 Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.
Acts 8:29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
Acts 8:30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
Acts 8:31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

For those that know the story, Philip has the gift of evangelist, after Jesus died the Holy Spirit spoke to Philip to join the man at the chariot. Right as Philip was told to go speak to the man, the man on the chariot was reading the Word of God but did not understand. Philip asked him if he understood, and the man replied "how can I, except some an should guide me". After Philip preached to the man about Jesus Christ, the man asked to baptized and be saved. But if the Holy Spirit did not "SPEAK" to Philip to help the man understand the Word of God, the man would never have be saved or knew Jesus, Esaias would have been a nice story and dismissed as such with the man going on his life without ever becoming a Christian.

Are you saying the Spirit acts on you the same way as he did on Philip? Don’t think so. Why couldn’t the Eunuch understand? Because the NT that explains who Jesus is had not been written yet. That’s what the gifts in the first century were for. To reveal and confirm the word.

Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
Isaiah 61:2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

Receiving the Holy Spirit is nothing new, for as the Word of God says "nothing is new under the sun". In the Old Testament the Holy Spirit was sent to God's prophets, so that being filled with the Holy Spirit they could preach and prophesize. There was nothing the prophets could read to teach or to learn in those days, because their words speaking it and having it written down was the first time in the history of mankind that God revealed those secrets to man. The only difference between then and now, is that Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to all of us after he died, as a comforter to guide us how to know God.

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

Yes he did....through his word he has given us.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

God catches men today through earthen vessels. 2 Cor 4.

The supernatural gift of God: The mystery of the Revelation of Jesus Christ carried in an earthen vessel. God set in the heart of an earthen vessel, the God of peace ruling from the heart of a new born child translated into the kingdom of God which is above all. God set in the heart of an earthen vessel therefore the minister speaks of heavenly things which are above. His spirit in them. “not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God” comforter-helper. Because of this ‘God with men’ they run and ‘faint’ not, nor grow weary...while the flesh faints and grows weary. there is a supernatural power to endure within as when Jesus Christ told them they would do the impossible and catch men and not literal fish. <spiritual gifts and fruit for the building up and edification of the earthen vessel with God set in the heart so they will know in a weak vessel the Power is indeed OF God.

The natural: the world set in the heart and carried in an earthen vessel preaching another Jesus, the spirit of the Antichrist. Transforming themselves into ministers of light but carrying a lie of bondage. The world set in the heart of the earthen vessel therefore a minister of earthly things and another Jesus who promises those things set in their heart. Void of power catching literal fish. <spiritual gifts NOT for the building up and edification of an earthen vessel with the world set in the heart.

1 Corinthians 2:12-14
[12] Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. [13] Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. [14] But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them , because they are spiritually discerned.

John 8:23
[23] And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

1 Corinthians 2:5-6
[5] That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God. [6] Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

...that come to nothing.

 

[Earburner]

Once again, the point is there are two subjects in mind in each one of these sentences.
The WE and the YOU.
The WE is not the YOU and the YOU is not the WE.
He said WE are ambassadors and then mentioned the YOU. So, the WE is not the YOU. They are two separate subjects.
If I were to say to you.....hey we are going to the movies do YOU want to come. You would understand that there are two subjects in mind. The one group who is going and then you who may or may not go. It’s not very difficult.

WRONG!!
Every person who is literally born again by the Person of His Holy Spirit, is a NEW creature (creation) in Christ Jesus, and therefore ARE ALL Ambassadors for Christ!
.
Both God the Father and God the Son together, are the Holy Spirit of God/Christ.
John 14[23] Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode [dwelling place] with him.

Rom. 8[9] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ,
he is none of his.

 

[Earburner]

That someone preaching today is guided by the word. Not through some direct operation of the Spirit. This is how we have so many churches teaching and practicing different doctrines. They all say they are led by the Spirit. But it’s funny how the Spirit never teaches the same thing. He teaches the baptist one thing, he teaches the Methodist another, the Catholics something different. Isn’t it funny how the Spirit can never get it straight.


Are you saying the Spirit acts on you the same way as he did on Philip? Don’t think so. Why couldn’t the Eunuch understand? Because the NT that explains who Jesus is had not been written yet. That’s what the gifts in the first century were for. To reveal and confirm the word.


Yes he did....through his word he has given us.

"That someone preaching today is guided by the word. Not through some direct operation of the Spirit. This is how we have so many churches teaching and practicing different doctrines. They all say they are led by the Spirit. But it’s funny how the Spirit never teaches the same thing. He teaches the baptist one thing, he teaches the Methodist another, the Catholics something different. Isn’t it funny how the Spirit can never get it straight."
EB's reply:
They never get it straight, because they do not understand HOW Isa. 55:8-9 and John 16:13 work together, for God's understanding of HIS OWN words.
.
Instead, they trust in their religious institutions of "higher learning", and formulate/fabricate their doctrines and traditions of men.
No longer being willing, that God Himself shall truly teach and guide them, they therefore TRUST in their "Religious" denomination, being cast unmoveable in cement.
.
Isa. 55[8] For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
[9] For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
.
John 16[13] Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth [the Person of the Holy Spirit], is come, he will guide you into all truth:
for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

 

[bbyrd009]

The WE is not the YOU and the YOU is not the WE.

Well, so you say...

 

[bbyrd009]

Once again, the point is there are two subjects in mind i

and those are objects i think, pretty sure. The subject(s) would be...diff?

 

[bbyrd009]

If I were to say to you.....hey we are going to the movies do YOU want to come. You would understand that there are two subjects in mind. The one group who is going and then you who may or may not go. It’s not very difficult.

the subject would be "movies" and the "you" would be the secondary object? i thought? I don't really care so much, don't get me wrong, but I'm about to try to tie the two objects together in those vv using the subject

 

[Earburner]

No I do not believe we are transformed in a miraculous way by Christ. Paul is clear that it is through preaching that we are changed. 2 Cor 4 tells us that Gods message is in earthen vessels. So, yes we even today are vessels for Christ. The difference is Paul was a specific CHOSEN vessel hand picked by Christ. We have not been chosen that way.

Jn 13-16 is clearly Jesus and the 12, there was nobody else present. A little later we find Jesus and the eleven in acts 1..
Acts 1:4-5 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
This was spoken directly to the apostles. This promise is not for you and me. We are not to remain in Jerusalem. Hope you are able to see this.
The promise we see in Mk 16:17-20 and acts 2:16-20 was for members of the early church before the NT had been recorded.
Do we receive the Spirit today? Yes through the word he has left us. And as earthen vessels we Cary this message to others.

How do you receive the HS? What does the HS do for you?

CNKW3 wrote:
"No I do not believe we are transformed in a miraculous way by Christ. Paul is clear that it is through preaching that we are changed. 2 Cor 4 tells us that Gods message is in earthen vessels. So, yes we even today are vessels for Christ. The difference is Paul was a specific CHOSEN vessel hand picked by Christ. We have not been chosen that way."
.
EB's Reply:
> You are absolutely incorrect, and are in need of stern correction!!
.
The Lord STILL "hand picks" those who ARE born again of His Spirit, for HIS purposes!!

I for one, was given a dream/vision, whereby in the dream, i was handed a book to read. It was titled
1 Timothy.
This all took place before I became a Born Again Christian. Prior to that, I was searching to know if there was a God. Apart from an occasional trip to a church service, when I was young, I was "unchurched" and a heathen. I knew nothing about the Bible, and no prior knowledge of 1 Timothy at all.
.
If it weren't for the God given dream/vision, I might have remained a heathen these past 40+ years. I thank God for the dream from Him.
Six Mos. later after it, via the book of John, and only by His guidance through His Holy Spirit, I have been saved since then.
.
No one else was involved in my coming to Christ for God's forgiveness, and his free Gift of His Holy Spirit! No invitation by men, or anyone of flesh guiding me. It was strictly ALL HIM!!
.
So therefore, I can fully attest that anyone, through faith, can be saved by God Himself alone!!
.
You know nothing about what you are talking about!!

 

[Davy]

Davy wrote:
"Many no doubt have been duped by that idiot in that article with his dissing our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. The reason he did that dissing was to prepare the duped into believing the lie that God's Word doesn't point to a singular Antichrist figure. It does, and in several Scriptures. This is why the early Church fathers also looked for the coming a singular Antichrist figure."
> Wrong!
I provided the answers to prove through scripture that Judas Iscariot was not the only "son of perdition", proving even more so, the plurality of 2 Thes. 2:8.
But you can't get beyond your bogus mantra of your " boy", "THE" Antichrist, to come.
.

Judas Iscariot isn't the REAL "son of perdition". Satan is. The reason is because even Judas has NOT yet been judged to perish yet. If you say he has, then that is to lie, and infer that God's Great White Throne judgment has already happened. No flesh born man has been judged to perish in the lake of fire yet today, not even Judas. But Satan and his angels have (Matthew 25:41). That is why the "son of perdition" phrase in 2 Thessalonians 2 is about Satan as the coming Antichrist at the end of this world. Afterall, Judas had already been dead for a while when Apostle Paul spoke of the "son of perdition" in that 2 Thess.2 chapter.

Think!

 

[Davy]

You started off with MK 13:11. You took vs 11 completely out of context. So, I showed you what the proper context of the passage was. That passage was not directed to you and me.
This is how 90% of “Christianity” uses the Bible. You go to one or two verses that says something you like, you don’t even consider the context, then you start spouting how wrong everybody is when they show you the truth. You don’t care about anything except your own man made doctrine. You don’t care to learn what the Bible actually says.

You are a LIAR, and that's all there is to it. What happened was exactly as I said, and now you only make up more lies. You are not to be trusted.

 

[Earburner]

Judas Iscariot isn't the REAL "son of perdition". Satan is. The reason is because even Judas has NOT yet been judged to perish yet. If you say he has, then that is to lie, and infer that God's Great White Throne judgment has already happened. No flesh born man has been judged to perish in the lake of fire yet today, not even Judas. But Satan and his angels have (Matthew 25:41). That is why the "son of perdition" phrase in 2 Thessalonians 2 is about Satan as the coming Antichrist at the end of this world. Afterall, Judas had already been dead for a while when Apostle Paul spoke of the "son of perdition" in that 2 Thess.2 chapter.

Think!

Quite literally, you are clueless of who/what "the son of perdition [destruction]" is!
He is the unsaved "natural man" .
If you will recall, Judas ended his life BEFORE the Day of Pentecost, which was WHEN the free Gift of God's Holy Spirit was made available to the disciples, as well as ALL people since then.
Judas WAS NOT THERE for that Gift, and had died previously, without faith for repentance and God's forgiveness.
.
But Peter was fine, wasn't he!!
Which was the worse sin? Betrayal or Denial?
The answer is neither!!
Peter by faith, received the Lord's forgiveness, and the Gift of His Holy Spirit. Judas did not, and could not!
.
Don't you know yet, that all who die without the Holy Spirit in them, they REMAIN to be "condemned already", as "the son of perdition"? John 3:18.

Rom. 8[9] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.
Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ,
he is none of his.

 

[Davy]

Quite literally, you are clueless of who/what "the son of perdition [destruction]" is!
He is the unsaved "natural man" .
If you will recall, Judas ended his life BEFORE the Day of Pentecost, which was WHEN the free Gift of God's Holy Spirit was made available to the disciples, as well as ALL people since then.
Judas WAS NOT THERE for that Gift, and had died previously, without faith for repentance and God's forgiveness.
.
But Peter was fine, wasn't he!!
Which was the worse sin? Betrayal or Denial?
The answer is neither!!
Peter by faith, received the Lord's forgiveness, and the Gift of His Holy Spirit. Judas did not, and could not!
.
Don't you know yet, that all who die without the Holy Spirit in them, they REMAIN to be "condemned already", as "the son of perdition"? John 3:18.

Rom. 8[9] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.
Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ,
he is none of his.

Unsaved NATURAL MAN???!!

Where did you get that pagan philosophy? Probably from the corrupt Gnostic NIV Bible translation no doubt, from Wescop and Wort, er... I mean Wescott & Hort.

Try reading Thomas Paine's Common Sense. He was an atheist. He and William James, a socialist, liked to use humanist terms like that for their philosophy. Modern Bible translations like to use them too, since those modern translations use the Wescott & Hort translation from the Alexandria, Egypt school that was influenced by Neo-Platonism and Gnosticism.

 

[amadeus]

ya...when you personify spirits you don't hafta be satan I guess?
But you also cant be a christ then I guess
ah, being lazy, Death, More Abundantly

I might be totally wrong there, but imo I get the impression if one started the "I'll fly away" jazz he would be looking for an exit pretty quick!

As I said, I know little about Billy Graham. Once a number of years ago, but long after he first became popular, I looked for a message given by him. My search I guess was short and I had not incentive to continue it so I did not. To this day most of my knowledge of him and his walk with God is hearsay. I do remember a big flare-up when he apparently kissed the Pope's ring.

Any man who has focused even a little bit more on Life more abundantly than on death more abundantly has a measure of good [God alone being Good] in him. Some sifting is almost always needed. This should certainly be the role of the Holy Spirit in us as the Sifter. Who else but God really knows what Good is? All of us have knowledge of death... but not...!

 

[amadeus]

yes, i've done both i guess. I mean i was a Mithraist myself, for many years...who Tamar reps should be fairly easy to agree on?

I am not knowledgeable on Mithraism. It is one of those things I have heard of... but never delved into...
I have always been a Christian in some sense of the word... even when I had determined that I would not be one.

I do seek the Truth, but what truth will we find by spending every waking hour studying all of the other ways that someone has decided is the best way? Could not a man study that way for long hours daily during 70 years of natural life and as he lies down for the last time to draw his last breath still not really know that any one of them is better than the others? Should you or anyone try to answer that question?

Isn't it perhaps a carnal question, or it is a spiritual question where only God and those with whom He has shared it may have even an inkling of an answer?

I took note of the two different scriptural coats/garments of many colors a number of years ago and set it aside for a study which to date I have not done. Your mention of it here brought it back to mind now. What do they mean to you? You say you've 'done both'.

Joseph's coat was a special gift from his father, which stirred up, to put it mildly, the animosity of his brothers, who were also sons of the same father. An early example of sibling rivalry and/or jealousy.

Tamar on the other hand wore her garment it apparently because she was a daughter of the King, King David.

Joseph was sold as a slave. Tamar was raped by her own brother. Each one had a special covering garment which became defiled. They both were of diverse colors. Does this speak of the rainbow God displayed after the great flood in the time of Noah? Did not God say, "never again" such a destruction by flood?

Joseph's coat was purposely dipped in the blood of a dead animal by his brothers.
Tamar tore her garment purposely to make manifest to any observer her humble state.

 

[bbyrd009]

The WE is not the YOU and the YOU is not the WE.

So, scanning through here i guess the point has already been made more or less. You might notice how what does appear to be "contrasting" is really more like cleverly constructed phrases,

2 Corinthians 1:6-7 And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer: or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation. And our hope of you is stedfast, knowing, that as ye are partakers of the sufferings, so shall ye be also of the consolation

i mean, "same, so shall you be also" etc?

 

[bbyrd009]

I am not knowledgeable on Mithraism. It is one of those things I have heard of... but never delved into...
I have always been a Christian in some sense of the word... even when I had determined that I would not be one.

Not to put too fine a point on it but virtually all claimers of "Christian" now are Mithraists, essentially i guess? Looking up, going up to heaven, becoming an immortal, the only real diff being i guess that Mithraism's "Greys" are now afforded entry into the Elysian Fields?

 

[bbyrd009]

I do seek the Truth, but what truth will we find by spending every waking hour studying all of the other ways that someone has decided is the best way? Could not a man study that way for long hours daily during 70 years of natural life and as he lies down for the last time to draw his last breath still not really know that any one of them is better than the others? Should you or anyone try to answer that question?

Well, imo everyone is different, and so might every answer be, but fwiw i did not set out to study Mithraism; i was confronted with the truth that i was a Mithraist! I never cared to discover that i was a Hegelian Thinker, but forums taught me that deterministic answers can only ever be half-right, at best.

Visualizing literally walking around on twelve precious stone foundations worked just great for like 30 years, the Pearl of Great Price stayed, what, i guess "my salvation" or some other ambiguous claim for longer, etc.

Isn't it perhaps a carnal question, or it is a spiritual question where only God and those with whom He has shared it may have even an inkling of an answer?

not sure now what question you mean, so to this i will say that
Life, more abundantly and Death More Abundantly
simply do not mix, as near as i can tell?

they are about as close as Having Faith and Believing, or Eternal and Immortal, imo

 

[amadeus]

tbh I figured it would read better coming from you
we covered them a year or so ago, didn't we? You and I?

I'll take your word for it. My memory is fuzzy on the specifics. Mostly now, however, we are probably on the same page. The common man, the unbeliever, is dead and never really worries about it except when it comes to considering perhaps the end of time for his own little piece of flesh.

The believer, or any who consider themselves believers, will be focused on God or maybe on some self drawn line in between the two. The mammon side is death although blind people or people with poor vision may think there is really life there as well. Ultimate there really is not. God also sees these three groups here speaking particularly to one group but mentioning the others:

"I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth." Rev 3:15-16

Where are those who pursue this DMA [death more abundantly]? Likely never on the hot side, but in one or both of the other two. The ones who have never tasted Life and/or had a glimpse but turned soon away would I guess be on the cold side. The latter may have been a Christian of sorts but the former never was.

The middle of the roaders almost all would have to be people who really met Jesus and had a bit more than just glimpse, but never were willing to give up all that mammon had to offer. They are the most likely pursuers I guess of that DMA. They think they can have their cake and eat it too, but they really cannot. Sooner or later they will be spit out... unless while they still have time they get off of the fence.

And then homing on the one who would preach of teach are there any scribes, Pharisees or hypocrites among them leading people blindly into a ditch?

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves." Matt 23:15

 

[Butterfly]

No I do not believe we are transformed in a miraculous way by Christ. Paul is clear that it is through preaching that we are changed. 2 Cor 4 tells us that Gods message is in earthen vessels. So, yes we even today are vessels for Christ. The difference is Paul was a specific CHOSEN vessel hand picked by Christ. We have not been chosen that way.

Jn 13-16 is clearly Jesus and the 12, there was nobody else present. A little later we find Jesus and the eleven in acts 1..
Acts 1:4-5 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
This was spoken directly to the apostles. This promise is not for you and me. We are not to remain in Jerusalem. Hope you are able to see this.
The promise we see in Mk 16:17-20 and acts 2:16-20 was for members of the early church before the NT had been recorded.
Do we receive the Spirit today? Yes through the word he has left us. And as earthen vessels we Cary this message to others.

How do you receive the HS? What does the HS do for you?

Sadly I am not going to waste my testimony on someone that is so closed minded - you have made it clear where you stand- I do not agree - but have absolutely no desire to waste my time when it is clear that you are not actually interested in what others say, unless it is to ' tell them how wrong they are '
Rita

 

[bbyrd009]

I took note of the two different scriptural coats/garments of many colors a number of years ago and set it aside for a study which to date I have not done. Your mention of it here brought it back to mind now. What do they mean to you? You say you've 'done both'.

ok, well for that we would have to agree on what Tamar means imo, in order to see her coat of many colors, and that is going to take a while i guess, so to just answer your Q my current understanding is that her coat reps the several, many ways that religion eats our money, and/or infringes on our free-market, more or less, all for "good."

So, i was...an enthusiastic and successful pursuer of the $, lived in a free mansion that actually produced about a 1/4 million a year or so, + the extra we made from fake upkeep and fires, Bc something like $3500 a month or so just in property taxes, + payoffs to inspectors and whatnot.

Now it might seem hard or a stretch to see why Religion has anything to do with Free Market...so an example that comes to mind there is maybe Abortion, a more "morally charged" I'll say subject than housing--which i mean our housing is a crime, but nevermind that for now...

Bc the point is really about the way the money flow shifts based upon our choices of national "morality," obviously millions of dollars are at stake even in abortion, say as opposed to no abortion and adoption, which sounds all warm and fuzzy but gives rise to child slavery, etc.

So, Tamar's coat might be perceived as an unfettered free market, where i can just send Frank some heroin if he wants it and i have it, and the rape of Tamar would be all the stuff i mentioned, perhaps--or actually i guess those would be what happens when the free market is manipulated, say.

Now instead of $5 Frank has to pay me $20 for $5 worth of stuff, Bc "morals"