1 John 3:9 - Is it cannot "practice" sin, or cannot "commit" sin?

[Bible Highlighter]

John leaves it open in 1 John 2:1 as to whether it is possible or not.

Again, John would contradict himself if he said to “sin not” which is not possible in your viewpoint. You are looking at the glass half empty and seeking to justify sin when the Bible says you can overcome sin (See: Galatians 5:24, 1 Peter 4:1-2, 2 Corinthians 7:1, Romans 13:14).

Jesus said that stumbling blocks were inevitable in this world (Matthew 18:7),

Jesus said,

“Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!” (Matthew 18:7).

What’s the context here? The world. Woe unto the world because of offenses. That’s what it says. Believers are not of the world.
Believers are not to love the world and neither the things in the world. If they do, the love of the Father is not in them.

Revelation 22:14-15 (which is in the last chapter of the Bible) says:
“Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.”

But again, please read what John says. Even if we do stumble, if we confess our sins, we can trust Christ to advocate for us before our Father, we can trust Christ's sacrifice on our behalf, we can trust God to forgive us.

This is just like when a drunk may stumble on rare occasion on his road to recovery in overcoming his sin of alcoholism. His stumbling in the past at one point in time does not indicate his future behavior of permanently being alcohol free. It’s why John tells us to “sin not.” If John did not think it was possible for you to “sin not” he would have never said such a thing.

I'm hearing that our assurance comes from our own righteous behavior. I'm saying with John in 1 John 1:8 - 1 John 2:2 that our assurance comes from trusting Christ.

The ONLY assurance we can really ever have is through trust.

Do you understand?

Please God, open eyes and hearts and minds to hear this message.

I am non-denominational, and I just believe the Bible alone + the Anointing to Understand It. You have been trained in the ways of Protestantism and therefore that is all you know. There are many verses or passages that you have been trained to not see (or understand) in your own Bible. Let me give you one example.

Galatians 6:8-9 says:

“For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.”​

If you never knew of Protestantism and all you had was a Bible and you just believe it plainly, then you would not try to either ignore this passage above or seek to change it because you don’t like what it says.

For part of Galatians 6:8 says that the person who sows to the Spirit will reap life everlasting. Verse 9 defines what this sowing to the Spirit is in that it is called, “well doing” (which is good works). It says we will reap if we faint not. Reap what? Life everlasting. If we sow to the Spirit (by welling doing) we will reap life everlasting.

There are tons of passages like this in your Bible that you have to duck, dodge, or ignore at every turn of the page in your New Testament.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

@L3astAm0ngManyB13ss3d

As for Jesus’ words that say, “Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.” (Matthew 23:24).

Well, I don’t think justifying the sins of lying and or looking upon a woman in lust on occasion was the context in Matthew 23 (if you were to re-read the whole chapter in context). The Pharisees appeared to be outwardly righteous and they ignored the weightier matters of the Law like love, faith, justice, and mercy (Matthew 23:23, cf. Luke 11:42). Lying and or fornication is simply one not loving their neighbor (Romans 13:8-10).

1 John 4:7-8 says:
“Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.”



Can believers judge?

Jesus said,
“Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.” (John 7:24).

Granted, I am not interested in judging individuals exactly. That’s not my goal in life. My goal is to refute the false beliefs of others that runs contrary to God’s Holy Word. 2 Timothy 3:16 says Scripture is profitable for correction and instruction in righteousness.

As for the point Jesus was making about how with God all things are possible:

I see this statement by Jesus as Him referring to how God can change a person’s heart and given Him their Spirit so that they can obey and do what is good and right (vs. justifying sin).



No. I am not a part of any affiliated church organization that gets together in a big building.
Nor am I affiliated with any online church, either.
I just believe the Bible. My influence is God’s Word in what it says.
If somebody says something contrary to His Word, then I disbelieve it (It does not matter who it is).



The Bible talks about how there are teachers. So I think there are times we can glean truths from other believers but most often there is always something I disagree with among believers these days even if I do find them to be gifted in teaching a particular truth in one area. But no. I don’t look to any man alone to get my theology accept the man Jesus Christ (of which His words are written in Scripture for us).



To serve the flesh means one is serving sin or they are trapped under being a slave to incorrectly serving some wrong aspect of Laws of Moses.
Romans 8 mentions the word “flesh” in relation to how Paul was once a Pharisee struggling to keep the Old Law in Romans 7:14-24.

Those who justify the idea that they can sin and still be saved today by waving 1 John 1:8 around as if it was a banner flag to sin on some smaller level, are not serving God but they are serving their own sin or flesh. Why? They are justifying sin with that verse. Yes, God can forgive us but we must confess and forsake sin In order to have mercy (Proverbs 28:13).



See here:

What is your Statement of Faith?

My Statement of Faith: 1. God (a) God is Triune (The Lord our God is one God who exists as three persons: The Father, the Word (Jesus), and the Holy Ghost); Note: You can check out my defense of the Trinity in this CF thread here. (b) God is spirit (God is a spirit being; Transcendent and...

www.christianforums.com

See here:

What does Scripture Mean About Perfection?

The Scriptures Teaching on Sinless Perfectionism: Sinless Perfectionism is the goal of our Sanctification. It is yet another Biblical doctrine that is commonly misunderstood and or denied amongst Eternal Security Proponents or those who do not believe that “Sin Cannot Separate a Believer From...

www.christianforums.com

Heated cat that hisses?
I think you are wrongfully projecting something that is not true.
I have no ill will toward anyone here.
I want to simply see all abiding in our Lord Jesus Christ and His Word.
In any event, I see this as telling the truth of God’s Word like it is in trying to correct others who are in error (Of which I am allowed to do according to 2 Timothy 3:16).

So what do you think Jesus was doing in Matthew 23?
How would you describe His behavior in that chapter?

Anyways, I can give a list of how a believer can overcome sin but one must first believe God’s Word in that they cannot justify sin by their wrongfully interpreting 1 John 1:8, and Romans 7:14-24 as an excuse to sin. They need to first believe God in that they can overcome sin in this life (See: Galatians 5:24, 1 Peter 4:1-2, 2 Corinthians 7:1, Romans 13:14).

Thank you for reading thru my post this time with answering.
Maybe it's just your approach that is off putting.
I want ALL to know the truth as the Word relates it as well.
However with the rebuke or rejection of what someone states it must be done in love and concise context.
Maybe it's just me but this is the first time I feel like you are COMMUNICATING ......WITH ME, not at me.
That may be the problem in response to your post.

I want ALL to receive what Jesus has done for us, how God's great love was within himself as he dwelt among us, gave himself for us to remove the wages of sin we had incurred.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

@L3astAm0ngManyB13ss3d

As for Jesus’ words that say, “Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.” (Matthew 23:24).

Well, I don’t think justifying the sins of lying and or looking upon a woman in lust on occasion was the context in Matthew 23 (if you were to re-read the whole chapter in context). The Pharisees appeared to be outwardly righteous and they ignored the weightier matters of the Law like love, faith, justice, and mercy (Matthew 23:23, cf. Luke 11:42). Lying and or fornication is simply one not loving their neighbor (Romans 13:8-10).

1 John 4:7-8 says:
“Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.”



Can believers judge?

Jesus said,
“Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.” (John 7:24).

Granted, I am not interested in judging individuals exactly. That’s not my goal in life. My goal is to refute the false beliefs of others that runs contrary to God’s Holy Word. 2 Timothy 3:16 says Scripture is profitable for correction and instruction in righteousness.

As for the point Jesus was making about how with God all things are possible:

I see this statement by Jesus as Him referring to how God can change a person’s heart and given Him their Spirit so that they can obey and do what is good and right (vs. justifying sin).



No. I am not a part of any affiliated church organization that gets together in a big building.
Nor am I affiliated with any online church, either.
I just believe the Bible. My influence is God’s Word in what it says.
If somebody says something contrary to His Word, then I disbelieve it (It does not matter who it is).



The Bible talks about how there are teachers. So I think there are times we can glean truths from other believers but most often there is always something I disagree with among believers these days even if I do find them to be gifted in teaching a particular truth in one area. But no. I don’t look to any man alone to get my theology accept the man Jesus Christ (of which His words are written in Scripture for us).



To serve the flesh means one is serving sin or they are trapped under being a slave to incorrectly serving some wrong aspect of Laws of Moses.
Romans 8 mentions the word “flesh” in relation to how Paul was once a Pharisee struggling to keep the Old Law in Romans 7:14-24.

Those who justify the idea that they can sin and still be saved today by waving 1 John 1:8 around as if it was a banner flag to sin on some smaller level, are not serving God but they are serving their own sin or flesh. Why? They are justifying sin with that verse. Yes, God can forgive us but we must confess and forsake sin In order to have mercy (Proverbs 28:13).



See here:

What is your Statement of Faith?

My Statement of Faith: 1. God (a) God is Triune (The Lord our God is one God who exists as three persons: The Father, the Word (Jesus), and the Holy Ghost); Note: You can check out my defense of the Trinity in this CF thread here. (b) God is spirit (God is a spirit being; Transcendent and...

www.christianforums.com

See here:

What does Scripture Mean About Perfection?

The Scriptures Teaching on Sinless Perfectionism: Sinless Perfectionism is the goal of our Sanctification. It is yet another Biblical doctrine that is commonly misunderstood and or denied amongst Eternal Security Proponents or those who do not believe that “Sin Cannot Separate a Believer From...

www.christianforums.com

Heated cat that hisses?
I think you are wrongfully projecting something that is not true.
I have no ill will toward anyone here.
I want to simply see all abiding in our Lord Jesus Christ and His Word.
In any event, I see this as telling the truth of God’s Word like it is in trying to correct others who are in error (Of which I am allowed to do according to 2 Timothy 3:16).

So what do you think Jesus was doing in Matthew 23?
How would you describe His behavior in that chapter?

Anyways, I can give a list of how a believer can overcome sin but one must first believe God’s Word in that they cannot justify sin by their wrongfully interpreting 1 John 1:8, and Romans 7:14-24 as an excuse to sin. They need to first believe God in that they can overcome sin in this life (See: Galatians 5:24, 1 Peter 4:1-2, 2 Corinthians 7:1, Romans 13:14).

I did go to Christian forums and read your thoughts.

I would say this .....do you want to be a founder for your own church or theology ?
I gleaned this by your references to other reformation ideaologies.
To use words of others to me is the same as following man. Give your own version of what you believe,trust and hold God to.

Some of what you've written, I can verify by the Word some not in context.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I did go to Christian forums and read your thoughts.

I would say this .....do you want to be a founder for your own church or theology ?

The church was already founded at Pentecost. My goal is simply to get people to believe the Bible in what it says. I am not seeking recognition or praise. Only God deserves that. I am nothing and Christ is everything.

I gleaned this by your references to other reformation ideaologies.
To use words of others to me is the same as following man. Give your own version of what you believe,trust and hold God to.

There are those who believe in Sanctification and sin like I do who hold to the same view you do. I disagree with them and with you on that we cannot use terms that describe a particular truth in God’s Word. These terms or labels are merely describing what is true in the Bible. There are also labels that describe false beliefs. For example: The Bible describes a people called the Sadducees. This was a term used to describe a particular people who held to certain beliefs that were wrong. Then believers were first called Christians at Antioch. Again, a label was given to believers. So if labeling was wrong like this, then we would see that taught in Scripture. God’s people even expounded upon the Word of God (The Scriptures). To expound means they used other words to explain what the Word of God taught. Jesus even accepted a parable from a woman. She used her own parable or words and Jesus did not rebuke her. It’s like saying a cat is a feline. They are the same thing. Whatever that label is… it describes a concept or idea. Some concepts are true, and other concepts are false (according to the Bible). For example: Godhead means Trinity. I can use the word Trinity even though that word is not in the Bible. The same concept is taught in the Bible. Then there is the word “Bible” which did not originally appear in the Scriptures. This was an addition to the formation of the book known as the Holy Bible today. But it’s not wrong to use the word Bible anymore than to use the word Trinity or any other label.

Some of what you've written, I can verify by the Word some not in context.

And this is the case with many believers today. Unless somebody is just blindly following the crowd, generally believers will have differing views or interpretations on what the Word of God says. This is because we are living in the perilous times of the last days as per 2 Timothy 3:1-9. It’s hard to find Christians who truly just want to believe every word of God in their Bible. Many today want to be their own authority or let sin reign on some level instead of God in their lives. It’s why they are so bent on trying to defend the idea that they must sin on occasion (with the thinking they are still saved). Sure, they may not defend the idea that they will practice sin, but justifying even one sin or saying one must sin again is merely telling of one’s wrong mental condition that is carnal and not of God; For God does not justify sin. We are to have the mind of our LORD. So if you don’t have his mindset on sin, then you are in grave error. The Scriptures say, we have the mind of Christ (See 1 Corinthians 2:16). Do you have that?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Thank you for reading thru my post this time with answering.

Your welcome.

Maybe it's just your approach that is off putting.

Truth is never popular. The Word of God can cut to the heart and get people upset. It had Stephen stoned.
It did not mean Stephen did not love those he was talking to even those his words may been harsh to them.

I want ALL to know the truth as the Word relates it as well.
However with the rebuke or rejection of what someone states it must be done in love and concise context.

I agree that we should speak in love. But you need to show me where I have not spoken in love when I corrected others. If you point this out in my writings, I will be happy to fix it if I feel that what I said was in fact not loving. But rebuking a false belief (from my perspective) is not going to bode well with those who don’t want to hear it, and they will see it as hate speech when that’s simply not the case.

Maybe it's just me but this is the first time I feel like you are COMMUNICATING ......WITH ME, not at me.
That may be the problem in response to your post.

There is nothing wrong with addressing an audience or speaking in a third person way. Jesus, Paul, and other apostles did it all the time.
I usually strive to speak in in general way so as not to make it personal and or to lead to a heated discussion where the person takes it as an insult. I try to make it about the belief and not the person. But that is sometimes difficult to achieve. Sometimes it is hard not to address the person when you are speaking about a wrong belief they have. Again, it does not mean I don’t love them. It just means I am trying to point out the flaw in their belief or thinking.

I want ALL to receive what Jesus has done for us, how God's great love was within himself as he dwelt among us, gave himself for us to remove the wages of sin we had incurred.

Believers need to put to death the misdeeds of the body by the Spirit so that they will live (live eternally) (See Romans 8:13).
Also please read Galatians 6:8-9.

 

[GodsGrace]

What is helpful in understanding 1 John 1:8 is looking at its immediate context. 1 John 1:10 says if we say we have not sinned. 1 John 1:10 switches gears from 1 John 1:8 in regards to time; John talks about the declaration on committing sin in verse 8 (which is present tense) to a declaration on committing sin being a past declaration (with verse 10). Verse 10 is saying there are people who said they have not sinned (past tense). This is clearly a gnostic belief. Why? Well, most believers today hold to the idea that they have sinned as a part of their old life before coming to Christ (Regardless of whether they are “OSAS,” a “Sin and still be saved” type believer, or a “Conditional Salvationist”). So this clearly is a “gnostic belief” that John was warning the brethren about (See 1 John 2:26).

OK. I know John was worried about gnosticism coming into the church, because it already existed before he died.
So you're saying it's the GNOSTICS that claimed to never have sinned? (they did worse than that).
Agreed about 1 John 2:26

1 John 1:8 is a present declaration of sin. It is saying if we say we have no sin when we do sin (present tense). This has to be the interpretative understanding of this verse because 1 John 2:4 says if we say we know Him and do not keep His commandments we are a liar and the truth is not in us. The OSAS's interpretation on 1 John 1:8 does not work because it conflicts with a normal reading on 1 John 2:3-4. You cannot always be in sin (breaking God's commands) as a part of 1 John 1:8 and yet also fulfill 1 John 2:3 that says we can have an assurance of knowing Him if we keep His commandments. Especially when 1 John 2:4 says we are a liar and the truth is not in us if we break his commandments. In other words, if the OSAS interpretation on 1 John 1:8 was true, then I would be damned if I do by obeying God's commands (1 John 1:8) and yet I would be damned if I don't by not obeying God's commands (1 John 2:4).

In fact, the New English Translation says this for 1 John 1:8,

"If we say we do not bear the guilt of sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us." (1 John 1:8 NET).

So far so good.
I don't know why you keep mentioned those that believe in non-conditional eternal security, I think it's because you're still thinking of the gnostics.
OSAS is not a biblical teaching.

In other words, this verse is saying that if a person sins and says they do not bear the guilt of sin (in the sense that they will not have to face any wrath or Judgment from God over their sin) then they would be deceiving themselves and the truth would not be in them. This is exactly what the Eternal Security proposes. They are saying that they do not bear the guilt of any sin (destruction of their soul and body in hell fire) if they do sin because they believe their future sins are paid for by Jesus.

Agreed.

They are saying, they do not bear the guilt or the punishment of sin at the final Judgment because of their belief on Jesus. In short, 1 John 1:8 is a denial of the existence of sin on some level. “If we say we have no sin (in the sense that it does not exist) we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.” (1 John 1:8). Christian Scientists think sin is an illusion and does not exist at all. So this verse would apply to them. Eternal Security Proponents and those who deny that “Sin Can Separate a Believer from God” deny the existence of sin partially. They believe sin exists physically but they do not believe sin exists for them on a spiritual level because Jesus has forgiven them of all their sin by their belief on Jesus.

I think I still agree.
I haven't read anything that is not biblical.

In fact, to see just how silly your argument actually is for 1 John 1:8, you would have to believe that you are sinning right now at this very moment in order for such a verse to be true because 1 John 1:8 is speaking in the present tense.

Can't remember what I said that was silly.
1 John 1:8 is speaking about having sin.
IOW, we're not perfect, we have sinned.
I don't understand why I'd have to be sinning at that moment.

We cannot say that we do not have sin....
meaning we HAVE sinned - whenever.

John prescribes that we do not think that sin is an illusion, and we are automatically saved, but John is telling us to "sin not" and go to our advocate Jesus Christ (1 John 2:1), and confess our sins so as to be forgiven of sin and to be cleansed of all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9). How can you confess and be forgiven of sin if all your future sin is paid for? It makes no sense.

I agree again.
We must confess all sins that we commit even after being saved.

You can say that John is talking about a break of fellowship by one's sins and not a loss of salvation, but that would not be consistent with Scripture. 1 John 5:12 says he that has the Son has life, and he that does not have the Son does not have life.

Side Note:

Here are some related verses that speak to those who misinterpret 1 John 1:8 and who believe they can sin and still be saved.

Proverbs 30:20 says:
“Such is the way of an adulterous woman; she eateth, and wipeth her mouth, and saith, I have done no wickedness.”

Isaiah 5:20
“Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!”

Malachi 2:17 AMP
“You have wearied the LORD with your words. But you say, “In what way have we wearied Him?” In that you say, “Everyone who does evil is good in the sight of the LORD, and He delights in them,” or [by asking], “Where is the God of justice?”

Hey BH,
I don't know what I posted, but I agree with all of the above.
I could have answered sooner...
I believe we are to obey God.
I do not believe in OSAS - it is not in scripture, unless we twist some verses. (same for all false teachings).
John was very worried about gnostics entering into the church and I do believe he was referring
to these people in 1 John 2:19.

 

[Grailhunter]

OSAS is a scheme of the devil.....assures him of a good quota.
Same thing goes for the whole robot thing and precreation judgment day of the Calvinists.
On the other hand some of these people try to suggest that we are hopeless to the temptations of sinning because of the hundreds of man-made sins. We should make an effort not to sin, but first we have to know what sins are. There are only so many biblical sins and those should be our focus. The minefield of fake sins are not a concern for Christians....the truth will set you free.

 

[GodsGrace]

OSAS is a scheme of the devil.....assures him of a good quota.
Same thing goes for the whole robot thing and precreation judgment day of the Calvinists.
On the other hand some of these people try to suggest that we are hopeless to the temptations of sinning because of the hundreds of man-made sins. We should make an effort not to sin, but first we have to know what sins are. There are only so many biblical sins and those should be our focus. The minefield of fake sins are not a concern for Christians....the truth will set you free.

Hi GH
What is a fake sin?
Thanks.

 

[Grailhunter]

Hi GH
What is a fake sin?
Thanks.

Hi GH
What is a fake sin?
Thanks.

Hi there GodsGrace
Simply put a fake sin is a sin that somebody came up with that is not in the Bible....more specifically not in the New Testament.
The history of Christianity, 2000 years of people trying to suggest that they are holier than thou by what they do not do.
When pleasing God is about exhausting yourself doing what you should do.
And then we get into the false beliefs....but I but together a short list of false sins.....
Tobacco use
Sexual desire
Sex
Nudity
not Tithing
Various types of music
Drinking alcoholic beverages
Drinking coffee…caffeine
Eating pork
Gambling
Cards and dice and board games
Women wearing pants
Women wearing shorts
Women wearing make-up
Women wearing dresses above the knees
Women working outside the home
Men with long hair
Women with short hair
Tattoos
Dancing
Going to the swimming pool…swimming with mixed sexes.
Physical sports such as boxing and football
Military service
Law enforcement
Self-defense or the defense of others
The use of any other bible other than the King James Version
Visiting or associating with other denominational churches
Not belonging to a denomination
Watching television

 

[Bible Highlighter]

OK. I know John was worried about gnosticism coming into the church, because it already existed before he died.
So you're saying it's the GNOSTICS that claimed to never have sinned? (they did worse than that).
Agreed about 1 John 2:26

Well, the writing I gave you was from my write up (that I am looking to revise). I am moving away from calling them gnostics now (Although I know some commentators will say that). I just believe whoever these false seducers were, they appear to hold to the view that sin did not exist or it was an illusion (just like Christian Scientists today teach - see here).

So far so good.
I don't know why you keep mentioned those that believe in non-conditional eternal security, I think it's because you're still thinking of the gnostics.
OSAS is not a biblical teaching.

Proponents of Unconditional Eternal Security hold to the view that sin does not endanger their salvation, and they hold to the view that all future sin is paid for. So when they sin, they don’t believe it exists for them on a spiritual level because Jesus paid for that sin (according to them). So while they believe sin exists physically, they don’t believe it exists on a spiritual level for them. But 2 Corinthians 7:1 refutes this false line of thinking because Paul says let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Agreed.


I think I still agree.
I haven't read anything that is not biblical.

Thanks.

Can't remember what I said that was silly.

Sorry about that. You appeared to have taken this from my old write up last night that I provided (without my double checking it). When I was more awake, I double checked my post to you, and I updated it this morning before you replied. I edited my post to cater it to you personally this morning (US time). But it appears you still were looking at my older post (that was not updated). My original write up is written to those who use 1 John 1:8 as an excuse to justify sin on some level. So again. My apologies.

1 John 1:8 is speaking about having sin.
IOW, we're not perfect, we have sinned.
I don't understand why I'd have to be sinning at that moment.

1 John 1:10 is written to say that we have never sinned in the past.
1 John 1:8 is written in the present tense to say we have no sin now.
That’s how it reads. It speaks as if the person has sin now in the present tense.
Eternal Security Proponents take this to mean that they have some kind of sin nature in them that must sin again at some point on occasion.
Other Eternal Security folk who are Hyper Grace believe that this is in reference to how they sin daily multiple times a day (Hence why think they must say they have sin - in the present tense). But I believe 1 John 1:8 is saying if we say we have no sin [if we do sin]. While the words “if we do sin” is not in the text, it is implied based on the context. Or one can read it as… if we say we have no sin [i.e. no sin whatsoever in the sense that sin does not exist or is an illusion]. The claim in 1 John 1:8 is a warning to the brethren about a false belief of those who were trying to seduce them. That has to be the interpretative viewpoint because if not it would contradict 1 John 2:1, 1 John 2:3-4, Galatians 5:24, 2 Corinthians 7:1, Romans 13:14, 1 Peter 4:1-2, etcetera.

I agree again.
We must confess all sins that we commit even after being saved.

I am glad to hear that.

Hey BH,
I don't know what I posted, but I agree with all of the above.
I could have answered sooner...
I believe we are to obey God.
I do not believe in OSAS - it is not in scripture, unless we twist some verses. (same for all false teachings).
John was very worried about gnostics entering into the church and I do believe he was referring
to these people in 1 John 2:19.

Yes. They went out from them but they were not of them.
Meaning, I believe they held to wrong views about God and sin to begin with that were hard to let go of.

Anyways, I hope that what I said with God’s Word helped.

May the Lord’s peace and blessings be upon you and your family in the name of Jesus.

 

[Wynona]

This discussion has been really satisfying to read.

I see some positive engagement and communication that is honestly refreshing. And I love when people use the Scriptures to back up what they are saying.

I think I'll just be frank and say I believe getting rid of all sin and being blameless should be the goal of Christians. It's what God deserves. And it's clearly in the Scriptures.

Christians may be at a point where they are aware of their flaws and failures. But each day, moment by moment we have decisions to make. We have to stop believing that sin is inevitable and that we must fail all the time till we die. Christ has the power to cleanse us from all sin.

I just think that we are constantly hearing the opposite. It's so common to hear things even in church and sermons that speak against perfection. But the Bible is not against moral perfection at all. It's up to us to deal with that in our hearts and admit that this "inevitably Christians sin" mentality is largely not found in the Bible.

I think we are taught a defeatist mentality towards moral righteousness even in mainstream Christendom for a lot of reasons but we are falling for it because we either refuse to take the Bible at its Word or are not abiding in it.

The competing voices of sermons, blogs, books, devotionals, and even our own hearts should not crowd out what is plainly taught in the Bible.

God doesn't want us to get rid of sin out of lack of love. He wants us to live. So anything that leads to death has to go. God's goodness and His holiness go together.

 

[quietthinker]

Are you sure you aren’t just trying to get some of my ice cream…

it did cross my mind....and I hoped it was vanilla flavoured.

 

[Phoneman777]

You must be aware of Mark 16:16-18
16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

Some do not know that verse 18 is a Hebrew idiom meaning divine protection. I've seen God in action supernaturally protecting me many times. But there are some who take it literally and PRESUMPTUOUSLY pick up rattle snakes and drink cyanide. When Jesus was in the wilderness with Satan, Satan told HIm to jump off a high pinnacle and God's angels would catch him. Jesus told him, Thou shalt not test the Lord your God. So those snake handlers are testing God, and that is a presumptuous sin.

So what examples of presumptuous sins are you thinking of, brother. In the Old Testament in Numbers 15:30-36 picking up sticks for a fire on the Sabbath was a presumptuous sin, and they stoned him to death.

Isn't it so reassuring to know that Divine protection covers us, despite our unworthiness? Where would we be without it? God's unconditional, patient love for us reminds me of this:

 

[Bible Highlighter]

This discussion has been really satisfying to read.

I see some positive engagement and communication that is honestly refreshing. And I love when people use the Scriptures to back up what they are saying.

I think I'll just be frank and say I believe getting rid of all sin and being blameless should be the goal of Christians. It's what God deserves. And it's clearly in the Scriptures.

Christians may be at a point where they are aware of their flaws and failures. But each day, moment by moment we have decisions to make. We have to stop believing that sin is inevitable and that we must fail all the time till we die. Christ has the power to cleanse us from all sin.

I just think that we are constantly hearing the opposite. It's so common to hear things even in church and sermons that speak against perfection. But the Bible is not against moral perfection at all. It's up to us to deal with that in our hearts and admit that this "inevitably Christians sin" mentality is largely not found in the Bible.

I think we are taught a defeatist mentality towards moral righteousness even in mainstream Christendom for a lot of reasons but we are falling for it because we either refuse to take the Bible at its Word or are not abiding in it.

The competing voices of sermons, blogs, books, devotionals, and even our own hearts should not crowd out what is plainly taught in the Bible.

God doesn't want us to get rid of sin out of lack of love. He wants us to live. So anything that leads to death has to go. God's goodness and His holiness go together.

Well said Wynona.

Big hugs to you & your husband in the LORD.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

but I but together a short list of false sins.....

While I agree with your initial assertion about fake sins, your list is far too liberal and beyond the bounds of “appearance of evil”

“Abstain from all appearance of evil.” (1 Thessalonians 5:22)

 

[Grailhunter]

While I agree with your initial assertion about fake sins, your list is far too liberal and beyond the bounds of “appearance of evil”

“Abstain from all appearance of evil.” (1 Thessalonians 5:22)

I know a lot of preachers and I know their stress....that is why I am not a preacher. Johnny Appleseed of truth.....truth is my ministry....but no stress....I do not care if people believe me.....I want them to either look it up or prove me wrong. Love a Challenge.

This topic is easier than most.....it is clearly in the Bible or it is not.
Men are men and they do the same thing over and over again, that is why history repeats itself.....they do not learn from their mistakes. That trait will nip them in them in the bud in life because Christ expects people to learn from their mistakes.

The Jewish leaders did everything they could to make the burden of the Law as great as possible.
Men are men...Christian leaders did the same thing with man-made sins. Men do not have the authority to play God and make up sins. And some of these fake sins have done horrible things to the church and humanity.

It is just better to go with the truth.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

I know a lot of preachers and I know their stress....that is why I am not a preacher. Johnny Appleseed of truth.....truth is my ministry....but no stress....I do not care if people believe me.....I want them to either look it up or prove me wrong. Love a Challenge.

This topic is easier than most.....it is clearly in the Bible or it is not.
Men are men and they do the same thing over and over again, that is why history repeats itself.....they do not learn from their mistakes. That trait will nip them in them in the bud in life because Christ expects people to learn from their mistakes.

The Jewish leaders did everything they could to make the burden of the Law as great as possible.
Men are men...Christian leaders did the same thing with man-made sins. Men do not have the authority to play God and make up sins. And some of these fake sins have done horrible things to the church and humanity.

It is just better to go with the truth.

I so agree with this post.
Who do we belong unto, God or man's society ?
Who will give the final order on our placement , left or right ?
How will this be judged ? I say by the Word of God and by his Spirit. These are the two forces that will correctly lead us to God's will.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

They are both the same in effect, but one is defined solely to justify what we are doing at a certain time.

It's the foolish game of playing semantics with God and His word.

No one can be committing something at the time, and not be practicing it, nor committed to doing to at that time.

God is a God of now and today, and His word is written to apply to what we are doing now on earth, not before in the past, nor later that may not come.

Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

Afterall, we can only be committing sin once at a time, and so to say committing sin once does not apply, is foolish sophistry, not reason and truth.

If we are only sinning from time to time, then we are doing and practicing and committed to it from time to time.

And each time, we must be drawn to come to Christ with godly sorrow to be forgiven and reconciled to Him.

I have noticed that there are those who demand "practicing" is correct because they believe the apostles teach that it is okay to sin once in a while, then repent, and then sin again, and repent, just so they don't make a habit of it called "practicing." You see I love animals, and I could no more abuse an animal even ONCE. That is "we cannot commit sin."

 

[L.A.M.B.]

We cannot move the goalposts around in sin.
All unrighteousness is SIN!
Anything and everything we do must have this goal, am I pleasing God?
That is the ultimate question !

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Isn't it so reassuring to know that Divine protection covers us, despite our unworthiness? Where would we be without it? God's unconditional, patient love for us reminds me of this:

I've been filled with His Spirit since 1977 (45 years), so can hear his voice, and have so many testimonies I'm writing a book, actually two.