1 Peter 3:18

[BeyondET]

And knowing God exist, doesn't make one part of the Church.

Doesn't make them condemned either.

 

[Augustin56]

When folks say "the Bible tells me this" or "the Bible tells me that" I'm assuming that what they are truthfully saying is, "my personal interpretation of the Bible tells me this" or "my personal interpretation of the Bible tells me that," correct?

When Jesus walked the earth, He didn't write a book to spread His truths. He founded a Church. This Church is the one in the late 4th century that set the canon for the New Testament, choosing the 27 books out of more than 300 in consideration. It is on the God-given authority of this Church that we have a New Testament. The same Church chose the Greek version of the Old Testament, the Septuagent. It is the Church that St. Paul refers to as the "pillar and foundation of truth" in 1 Tim 3:15, not each individual personally interpeting Scripture, right?

I suppose there are so many Protestant denominations because everyone is allowed to personally interpret Scripture according to his/her own whim.

 

[Pierac]

No, that's not "what they told Jesus." That's a lie.

On the contrary, it was they who spit in Jesus' face. (Rude.) History repeats itself.

All are raised up in the judgement, not all are saved, but "some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt."

There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

The other Paul will make it known to you...... 1Co 12:3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus is accursed"; and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.

ScottA you have much to learn....

NASB Act 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

You have no idea of the Love of God.... SILLY Child.... Thus you don't even believe the other Paul...even when i show you...

1Ti 4:10 For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.

 

[ScottA]

The other Paul will make it known to you...... 1Co 12:3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus is accursed"; and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.
ScottA you have much to learn....
NASB Act 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.
You have no idea of the Love of God.... SILLY Child.... Thus you don't even believe the other Paul...even when i show you...
1Ti 4:10 For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.

In denying the named exceptions, by the same measure so you become.

 

[RR144]

Doesn't make them condemned either.

I never said they were condemned. They will be judged during the Millennial reign.

 

[Pierac]

In denying the named exceptions, by the same measure so you become.

The other Paul will make it known to you...... 1Co 12:3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus is accursed"; and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.
ScottA you have much to learn....
NASB Act 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.
You have no idea of the Love of God.... SILLY Child.... Thus you don't even believe the other Paul...even when i show you...
1Ti 4:10 For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.

Thus your lack of undersanding.... Really... How hard is it to see....

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

When Jesus was baptized in the Jordan River, He was begotten to a new spirit life with the Holy Spirit.

Everything else in your post I'd agree except these two statements.
Jesus is God, always was and always will be, He just relinquished His glory temporarily, became flesh and dwelt among us. Jesus is one with he Father and the Holy Spirit, so there wasn't a time that he wasn't. Begotten means that He became flesh and was born physically, the baby Jesus. He was also the firstborn, resurrected from the dead.

Thus Jesus received a divine resurrection to immortality, honor, and glory. Revelation 5:12 (RSV), “saying with a loud voice, ‘Worthy is the Lamb who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing!

He was already immortal. His resurrection was for our sake, a transformation from a physically dead body into a new eternal body. Spiritually, He was always God and so He did not gain anything spiritually. His glory was there before He was born, from the beginning. His glory was once again returned to Him. He said itbin the cross.
He showed His glory in the Mount of Transfiguration, so it was always there, just temporarily cloaked/shadowed of you will.

 

[Jim B]

When folks say "the Bible tells me this" or "the Bible tells me that" I'm assuming that what they are truthfully saying is, "my personal interpretation of the Bible tells me this" or "my personal interpretation of the Bible tells me that," correct?

When Jesus walked the earth, He didn't write a book to spread His truths. He founded a Church. This Church is the one in the late 4th century that set the canon for the New Testament, choosing the 27 books out of more than 300 in consideration. It is on the God-given authority of this Church that we have a New Testament. The same Church chose the Greek version of the Old Testament, the Septuagent. It is the Church that St. Paul refers to as the "pillar and foundation of truth" in 1 Tim 3:15, not each individual personally interpeting Scripture, right?

I suppose there are so many Protestant denominations because everyone is allowed to personally interpret Scripture according to his/her own whim.

Why do you think that God gave us the ability to read? I am thankful that we are able to read God's word directly, without it being filtered through others.

The Bible -- the Old Testament -- existed in Jesus' time. It was the Bible of His people, the Jews, and was read in the synagogues.

I am thankful that I am not a Catholic! It is a denomination that encourages its adherents to follow the teachings of men instead of permitting people to understand God's will for their lives directly. An example: if a person sins, they go to a priest -- "call no man father" -- for a recipe to be absolved, e.g., say several "hail Mary" prayers and your sins will be absolved. What a load of nonsense!

The Protestant denomination encourages a personal relationship with God. He is our heavenly father who loves us, so there is no need for intermediaries. That is just your denomination's way of controlling others, maintaining a barrier between God and His children.

And when is Jesus going to come down from the Catholic depiction of the cross? He has risen and is at the right hand of God!

 

[Augustin56]

Why do you think that God gave us the ability to read? I am thankful that we are able to read God's word directly, without it being filtered through others.

The Bible -- the Old Testament -- existed in Jesus' time. It was the Bible of His people, the Jews, and was read in the synagogues.

I am thankful that I am not a Catholic! It is a denomination that encourages its adherents to follow the teachings of men instead of permitting people to understand God's will for their lives directly. An example: if a person sins, they go to a priest -- "call no man father" -- for a recipe to be absolved, e.g., say several "hail Mary" prayers and your sins will be absolved. What a load of nonsense!

The Protestant denomination encourages a personal relationship with God. He is our heavenly father who loves us, so there is no need for intermediaries. That is just your denomination's way of controlling others, maintaining a barrier between God and His children.

And when is Jesus going to come down from the Catholic depiction of the cross? He has risen and is at the right hand of God!

Are you aware that it's only been very recently in history that we have had universal literacy in the world? Before the Industrial Revolution, there was no interest at all in universal literacy, and vast, vast majority of the world's people were illiterate. Most work was manual labor and didn't require one to know how to read. And even then, it took a while for literacy to become of interest and taught in schools. I would say it has only been in the last 100 years or so that we have had so many people capable of reading.

If Christ would have wanted His followers to learn His message simply by reading, He would have written a book, given it to the Aposltes and said, "Make as many copies of this as you can, and tell everyone to read it, and whatever it means to them, it will be true!" That didn't happen, though. Jesus founded a (one) Church (not a denomination). It was the only Church in existence before the canon of the New Testament was decided four centuries later. And even then, it was this Church that laboriously hand copied the Bible down through the centuries until the printing press was invented. Remember the old copy machine commercial, where a monk finished hand copying a Bible, and his superior said, "Very good! Now, another 500 copies, Brother Dominick!" There was some truth to that (not the 500 copies, but the fact that monks did the copying.) Bibles were incredibly expensive because they were written on velum (no paper, yet). Velum is made from the stomachs of sheep or cows. It took an entire herd to create one Bible.

Yes, many Jews could read, but they were, by far, the exception. And when you read about the "Scriptures" in the New Testament, they are referring to the Old Testament. The New Testament didn't exist yet.

Catholics follow the teachings of Christ, Who gave them to that Apostles (mere men), who in turn gave them to their successors, the bishops (mere men), who did likewise, for 2000 years now. Some of what was handed on was written down (not all - see John 21:25). We call that the New Testament since the late 4th century when the Catholic Church gathered at the Councils of Hippo (393 A.D.) and Carthage (397 A.D.) and declared the 27 books they selected out of more than 300 being analyzed, to be worthy of being called "Scripture." That is the New Testament.

The Catholic Church is not a "denomination" strictly speaking. The word "denomination" comes from the Latin and indicates that it comes 'from' something else. The Catholic Church is the original Christian Church, founded by Christ. St. Ignatius of Antioch, ordained and appointed as bishop of Antioch by St. Peter, was captured by the Romans and was being transported to Rome to be martyred for the faith. Along the journey, he wrote to the Smyrnaeans, mentioning the "Catholic Church," not as if he were coining the term, but in such a manner as he fully expected them to understand what the term meant.

Protestantism is completely man-founded, based on personal interpretation of Scripture, which St. Peter warns against in 2 Peter 1:20-21. If there were any validity to Protestantism, there would be one Protestant denomination, not thousands, and they would all believe the same thing. Allowing every man, woman, and child to pervert the Scriptures according to their own interpretation has resulted in nothing but chaos. Note that I'm talking about the heresy of Protestant-ism here. Most Protestants, I think are invincibly ignorant of the history of Christianity, as well as what the Catholic Church actually is and teaches. I have had many Protestant friends who are very well meaning and love the Lord a lot.

And the term "personal relationship" isn't to be found in Scripture. It was made up recently from an historical viewpoint. It cannot replace receiving Jesus' Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity (the Eucharist) when we attend Mass.

 

[Jim B]

reply to your post #69

Thank you for this digest of Catholicism. I'm glad that you are happy with your denomination. BTW, I wonder if you copied this from somewhere, or did you actually just sit down and write it?

I am well aware that many people were illiterate (or semi-literate) until recently, but what is your point? And claiming that literacy on a large scale didn't occur until the 1920s (in the US) is not true.

Your history of the church doesn't agree with Scripture. There are a significant number of churches mentioned in the New Testament, and there were many that are not which were scattered throughout the Mediterranean region. Claiming that "there was the only Church in existence before the canon of the New Testament was decided four centuries later" is simply wrong. Why not try reading the New Testament (or just Revelation) to learn that there were a number of churches, each with their own doctrines, strengths and weaknesses. Your Catholic thinking is blinding you to reality!

And apparently you are unaware that there were scribes who laboriously wrote the "books" of the Bible long, long before Jesus appeared on the scene. How do you think that the OT scrolls came into existence? Claiming that "it was this Church that laboriously hand copied the Bible down through the centuries" is absurd. And it is obvious that you have never heard of papyrus! It was the medium on which people wrote long, long before monks copied anything onto vellum (not velum). (Your lack of knowledge of history is stupefying!)

And thank you for writing "when you read about the "Scriptures" in the New Testament, they are referring to the Old Testament. The New Testament didn't exist yet". Amazing!! Who knew?

Perhaps your biggest error is claiming that "The Catholic Church is the original Christian Church, founded by Christ". There is no mention of the Catholic denomination in the Bible!!! Let me repeat that: there is no mention of the Catholic denomination in the Bible!!! Maybe your priests have sold you on that fiction but it is not true! The first churches (plural) were composed primarily of Jews and, as I mentioned before, were distributed throughout the Mediterranean region. The Catholic church is nothing more than a poor copy of the Roman empire. It is centralized in Rome under the leadership of a Pope/Emperor with a huge body of clergymen who administer it.

Diversion: the Catholic denomination has been responsible for wholesale murder of the people that it conquered militarily, just like the Roman empire.

Now, to get to the heart of the matter...

You wrote "Protestantism is completely man-founded, based on personal interpretation of Scripture, which St. Peter warns against in 2 Peter 1:20-21". So who/what founded your denomination? Horses, pigs, sheep? Beyond that, the authorship of 2 Peter is questionable. It most probably was not written by the apostle Peter (who was probably illiterate), so "St Peter" -- all believers are saints (sanctified) -- didn't warn anyone, as you claim. BTW, here is the section of 2 Peter in context "So we have the prophetic message more fully confirmed. You will do well to be attentive to this as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts [plural]. First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation [including Catholic clergy], because no prophecy ever came by human will, but men and women moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God." Get it? Men and women!!! Not a special class of priests, but by believing people!!! The very Scripture that you cite disproves your claim!!!

"If there were any validity to Protestantism, there would be one Protestant denomination, not thousands, and they would all believe the same thing" is more RCC propaganda. Again, if you bother to read the New Testament -- you do read the Bible, don't you? -- you will see that there were many churches in the first years after Christ, each with their own doctrines, so the various Protestant denominations have more in common with the early churches than your monolithic Roman Catholic pseudo-empire.

Writing that "allowing every man, woman, and child to interpret (NOT pervert!) the Scriptures according to their own interpretation" has resulted in a widespread knowledge of Christ and Christian doctrine." Unlike your denomination, Protestants are "the sheep of His pasture", under the guidance of one shepherd- Christ. Or putting it another way, believers are the body of Christ; there is only one head. There are not a bunch of ordained clergy who claim to have a handle on the truth. Your denomination is the perfect example of a top-down hierarchy of men, put in place to control the masses and have them be subject to them instead of having an individual relationship with the Trinity.

You continue: "Most Protestants, I think are invincibly ignorant of the history of Christianity, as well as what the Catholic Church actually is and teaches." Are you serious? Most Protestants know the truth: the Catholic denomination is a huge, hierarchical propaganda machine that has more in common with the Roman empire than it does with the true body of Christ.

And you end with this foolishness: "And the term "personal relationship" isn't to be found in Scripture. It was made up recently from an historical viewpoint. It cannot replace receiving Jesus' Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity (the Eucharist) when we attend Mass."

a) Where is the mention of the Catholic denomination in Scripture?
b) Where is the mention of the Pope in Scripture?
c) Where is the mention of a Cardinal in Scripture?
d) Where is the doctrine of a centralized, monolithic, controlling denomination mentioned in Scripture?
e) Where is the mass murder of unbelievers justified in Scripture?
f) Where is the sexual abuse of children by clergy mentioned in Scripture?
g) and many more flagrant violations of Scripture and God's will

Every believer is granted the right to have a personal relationship with their Creator, their heavenly Father, and His Son, Jesus Christ. IT DOES NOT HAVE TO BE FILTERED THROUGH SOME PRIESTHOOD!!! 1 Peter 2:9, "But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's own people, in order that you may proclaim the excellence of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light." This was not written to some self-appointed class of priests, alarmingly similar to the OT priesthood. It was written to all God's people, the sheep of His pasture.

When will you and your denomination get over your arrogance??? You think that in some way you are superior to other believers, BUT YOU ARE NOT!!!

 

[Jim B]

Here is an article for those who think the Catholic denomination is so righteous...

Judge OKs Archdiocese of Santa Fe settlement of $121 million in clergy abuse cases

The settlement also calls for the creation of a fund against which future unknown claims could be made, as well as a public database of records pertaining to sexual abuse

www.santafenewmexican.com

That's right! The (now bankrupt) archdiocese of Santa Fe NM had to pay a $121,000,000 -- that's rights 121 million dollars -- to settle the lawsuit brought against the Catholic clergy for the many years of sexual abuse of children. Notice that the possibility remains of future additional claims.

 

[Augustin56]

Your post #70

Sadly, you think you can reinvent the wheel when it comes to Christ's message. The Catholic Church does not claim the authority to correct Christ.

a. The term "Catholic Church" is not in Scripture. So, what? Neither is the term Trinity, that most Christians believe in.
b. Again, the term "Pope" is not in Scripture, but the office created by Christ that is occupied by St. Peter and his successors, that we choose to call "Pope" is. What we call the office doesn't change the authority or reality of the office. In Matt. 16:18-19, Jesus established an office, similar to a royal steward (see Isaiah 22:22), to run His kingdom after He ascended to heaven. There have been successors of this office from St. Peter until today. The second-in-command to the king ruled the kingdom when the king was away (at war, visiting other kingdoms, ill, etc.). Upon the king's return, the king held bound whatever the second-in-command ruled and loosed whatever he loosed. And the symbol of this office was a large (2-3 ft.) key or two over his shoulder. Jesus gave St. Peter and his successors the "keys to the kingdom of heaven." He was to govern and sanctify Christ's Church. Read the Early Church Fathers. They were decidedly Catholic!
c. See a and b above.
d. Christ established one (1) Church, not thousands. See Matt. 16:18 And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. Note that He said "church" not "churches." Historically, there was but one Church. Then, in 1054 A.D., the Orthodox splintered off. Protestantism didn't begin until the 16th century, and has been splintering ever since, into more and more man-made, doctrinally contradicting/disagreeing denominations!
e. Who has a doctrine of mass murdering anyone?
f. Again, that's not a doctrine. IF that is your criteria for a Christian organization, then you cannot be Christian at all! Of the first 12, the Apostles, one was Judas Iscariot, who betrayed Jesus. Another, the one He chose to first lead His Church (Peter), denied Him three times! The rest, except for St. John, deserted Him like cowards in His hour of need. So, if you insist that every member of the Church be impeccable (which the Church has never claimed), then you cannot be a member of any Chrsitian group.
g. The Church absolutely does have sinners within its ranks. It is a hospital for sinners, not a museum of Saints. Christ knew this when He created it.

Your reliance on Scripure alone is unbiblical. Nowhere in the Bible does it say everything we are to know is in the Bible. Nowhere! In fact, it says just the opposite!

John 21:25 There are also many other things that Jesus did, but if these were to be described individually, I do not think the whole world would contain the books that would be written.
So, not everything Jesus did and taught is in the Bible, according to St. John.

Matt. 28:19-20
Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.

So, if everything Jesus did and taught is not in the Bible, but Jesus commanded the Apostles to teach "all" that He taught them, where's the part not in the Bible?!

2 Thes 2:15
Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours.

So, Paul is saying that oral teachings (Oral Tradition, aka, Holy Tradition) are as important as written teachings (Scripture). It is the Oral Tradition that preceded the New Testament. Some of what was orally taught was written down. That is the New Testament!

What I have told you is not arrogance, but truth. Arrogance is assuming that you can create a better Church than Jesus, then take that power upon yourself and run with it. Christ's Church, the Catholic Church, has Christ's authority. Authority is given, not taken.

Here's a challenge for you. See if you can get a copy of J.N.D Kelly's book, Early Christian Doctrine. J.N.D. Kelly is a renowned Protestant Early Church historian. He writes, in his book, “As regards `Catholic,’ its original meaning was `universal’ or `general’ … As applied to the Church, its primary significance was to underline its universality as opposed to the local character of the individual congregations. Very quickly, however, in the latter half of the second century at latest, we find it conveying the suggestion that the Catholic is the true Church as distinct from heretical congregations. . . . What these early Fathers were envisaging was almost always the empirical, visible society; they had little or no inkling of the distinction which was later to become important between a visible and an invisible Church.” In other words, he acknowledges that the Catholic Church is the original Church founded by Christ.

 

[Jim B]

Sadly, you think you can reinvent the wheel when it comes to Christ's message. The Catholic Church does not claim the authority to correct Christ.

a. The term "Catholic Church" is not in Scripture. So, what? Neither is the term Trinity, that most Christians believe in.
b. Again, the term "Pope" is not in Scripture, but the office created by Christ that is occupied by St. Peter and his successors, that we choose to call "Pope" is. What we call the office doesn't change the authority or reality of the office. In Matt. 16:18-19, Jesus established an office, similar to a royal steward (see Isaiah 22:22), to run His kingdom after He ascended to heaven. There have been successors of this office from St. Peter until today. The second-in-command to the king ruled the kingdom when the king was away (at war, visiting other kingdoms, ill, etc.). Upon the king's return, the king held bound whatever the second-in-command ruled and loosed whatever he loosed. And the symbol of this office was a large (2-3 ft.) key or two over his shoulder. Jesus gave St. Peter and his successors the "keys to the kingdom of heaven." He was to govern and sanctify Christ's Church. Read the Early Church Fathers. They were decidedly Catholic!
c. See a and b above.
d. Christ established one (1) Church, not thousands. See Matt. 16:18 And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. Note that He said "church" not "churches." Historically, there was but one Church. Then, in 1054 A.D., the Orthodox splintered off. Protestantism didn't begin until the 16th century, and has been splintering ever since, into more and more man-made, doctrinally contradicting/disagreeing denominations!
e. Who has a doctrine of mass murdering anyone?
f. Again, that's not a doctrine. IF that is your criteria for a Christian organization, then you cannot be Christian at all! Of the first 12, the Apostles, one was Judas Iscariot, who betrayed Jesus. Another, the one He chose to first lead His Church (Peter), denied Him three times! The rest, except for St. John, deserted Him like cowards in His hour of need. So, if you insist that every member of the Church be impeccable (which the Church has never claimed), then you cannot be a member of any Chrsitian group.
g. The Church absolutely does have sinners within its ranks. It is a hospital for sinners, not a museum of Saints. Christ knew this when He created it.

Your reliance on Scripure alone is unbiblical. Nowhere in the Bible does it say everything we are to know is in the Bible. Nowhere! In fact, it says just the opposite!

John 21:25 There are also many other things that Jesus did, but if these were to be described individually, I do not think the whole world would contain the books that would be written.
So, not everything Jesus did and taught is in the Bible, according to St. John.

Matt. 28:19-20
Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.

So, if everything Jesus did and taught is not in the Bible, but Jesus commanded the Apostles to teach "all" that He taught them, where's the part not in the Bible?!

2 Thes 2:15
Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours.

So, Paul is saying that oral teachings (Oral Tradition, aka, Holy Tradition) are as important as written teachings (Scripture). It is the Oral Tradition that preceded the New Testament. Some of what was orally taught was written down. That is the New Testament!

What I have told you is not arrogance, but truth. Arrogance is assuming that you can create a better Church than Jesus, then take that power upon yourself and run with it. Christ's Church, the Catholic Church, has Christ's authority. Authority is given, not taken.

Here's a challenge for you. See if you can get a copy of J.N.D Kelly's book, Early Christian Doctrine. J.N.D. Kelly is a renowned Protestant Early Church historian. He writes, in his book, “As regards `Catholic,’ its original meaning was `universal’ or `general’ … As applied to the Church, its primary significance was to underline its universality as opposed to the local character of the individual congregations. Very quickly, however, in the latter half of the second century at latest, we find it conveying the suggestion that the Catholic is the true Church as distinct from heretical congregations. . . . What these early Fathers were envisaging was almost always the empirical, visible society; they had little or no inkling of the distinction which was later to become important between a visible and an invisible Church.” In other words, he acknowledges that the Catholic Church is the original Church founded by Christ.

"What I have told you is not arrogance, but truth." You're joking! This is all just Catholic propaganda.

I have a personal relationship with God. Unlike yourself, I don't need intermediaries between myself and my heavenly Father.

 

[Augustin56]

"What I have told you is not arrogance, but truth." You're joking! This is all just Catholic propaganda.

I have a personal relationship with God. Unlike yourself, I don't need intermediaries between myself and my heavenly Father.

The Catholic Church's teachings are Christ's teaching. The Catholic Church received the entirety of Divine Revelation from Christ through His Apostles, who passed it on to their successors the bishops, who have done likewise for 2000 years now.

The challenge to you, since Protestantism didn't show up until the 16th century, and you think you now have all the answers, is to show were the answers that differ from what was taught from the beginning came from. Do you claim that Jesus come back and handed the leader of your denominations a list of "corrections" to what has always been taught from the beginning? Or maybe an angel (well, okay, the Mormons claim that, but it's very dubious)?

Is your personal relationship with Jesus one in which you do things His way, or one where you do things your way, based on your own interpretations and wishes? If you do things Jesus' way, why aren't you a member of His Body, the Church? Do you claim you can do better than Jesus?

And have you not heard St. Paul and St. James recommend praying for one another? Paul wrote to the Romans: “I exhort you, brothers, through our Lord Jesus Christ and through the love of the Spirit, to strive with me in prayers to God on my behalf, that I may be delivered from the disobedient in Judaea and that my ministry may be acceptable to the saints in Jerusalem, so that in the joy coming to you through the will of God I may rest with you” (Rom. 15:30-32).

James says: “Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects” (James 5:16-17). Thus, according to Scripture, God wants us to pray for one another. This must mean that prayer for one another cannot detract from the role of Jesus Christ as our one mediator with God.

The reason that Christians have the power to pray for one another is that each person who is baptized is made a member of the Body of Christ by virtue of the Holy Spirit’s action in baptism (1 Cor. 12:11-13). It is because the Christian belongs to Jesus Christ and is a member of his Body, the Church, that we can make effective prayer.

The reason we pray to the saints is that they are still members of the Body of Christ. Remember, the life which Christ gives is eternal life; therefore, every Christian who has died in Christ is forever a member of the Body of Christ. This is the doctrine which we call the Communion of the Saints. Everyone in Christ, whether living or dead, belongs to the Body of Christ.

From this it follows that a saint in heaven may intercede for other people because he still is a member of the Body of Christ. Because of this membership in Christ, under his headship, the intercession of the saints cannot be a rival to Christ’s mediation; it is one with the mediation of Christ, to whom and in whom the saints form one body.

 

[Jim B]

The Catholic Church's teachings are Christ's teaching. The Catholic Church received the entirety of Divine Revelation from Christ through His Apostles, who passed it on to their successors the bishops, who have done likewise for 2000 years now.

The challenge to you, since Protestantism didn't show up until the 16th century, and you think you now have all the answers, is to show were the answers that differ from what was taught from the beginning came from. Do you claim that Jesus come back and handed the leader of your denominations a list of "corrections" to what has always been taught from the beginning? Or maybe an angel (well, okay, the Mormons claim that, but it's very dubious)?

Is your personal relationship with Jesus one in which you do things His way, or one where you do things your way, based on your own interpretations and wishes? If you do things Jesus' way, why aren't you a member of His Body, the Church? Do you claim you can do better than Jesus?

And have you not heard St. Paul and St. James recommend praying for one another? Paul wrote to the Romans: “I exhort you, brothers, through our Lord Jesus Christ and through the love of the Spirit, to strive with me in prayers to God on my behalf, that I may be delivered from the disobedient in Judaea and that my ministry may be acceptable to the saints in Jerusalem, so that in the joy coming to you through the will of God I may rest with you” (Rom. 15:30-32).

James says: “Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects” (James 5:16-17). Thus, according to Scripture, God wants us to pray for one another. This must mean that prayer for one another cannot detract from the role of Jesus Christ as our one mediator with God.

The reason that Christians have the power to pray for one another is that each person who is baptized is made a member of the Body of Christ by virtue of the Holy Spirit’s action in baptism (1 Cor. 12:11-13). It is because the Christian belongs to Jesus Christ and is a member of his Body, the Church, that we can make effective prayer.

The reason we pray to the saints is that they are still members of the Body of Christ. Remember, the life which Christ gives is eternal life; therefore, every Christian who has died in Christ is forever a member of the Body of Christ. This is the doctrine which we call the Communion of the Saints. Everyone in Christ, whether living or dead, belongs to the Body of Christ.

From this it follows that a saint in heaven may intercede for other people because he still is a member of the Body of Christ. Because of this membership in Christ, under his headship, the intercession of the saints cannot be a rival to Christ’s mediation; it is one with the mediation of Christ, to whom and in whom the saints form one body.

Protestantism is a "course correction" of the Catholic denomination, which had gone so far off course that God inspired Martin Luther and others to re-establish His church along truthful lines and compassion.

You can write volumes of Catholic propaganda but you might as well not. I will never believe your denomination's unscriptural doctrines, rituals, and idolatry. The Catholic Church's teachings are not Christ's teachings.

You might start with learning a) the true definition of a "saint" and b) why believers should pray to God, not dead people. And why does your denomination practice idolatry: praying to statues? Don't you see the absurdity of praying to statues of the dead in heaven and showing Christ as still hanging on the cross?

Since I do things Jesus' way, unlike yourself, I am a member of His Body, the Church.

I believe what the Bible clearly says. Perhaps you should read it for yourself.

 

[Augustin56]

Protestantism is a "course correction" of the Catholic denomination, which had gone so far off course that God inspired Martin Luther and others to re-establish His church along truthful lines and compassion.

You can write volumes of Catholic propaganda but you might as well not. I will never believe your denomination's unscriptural doctrines, rituals, and idolatry. The Catholic Church's teachings are not Christ's teachings.

You might start with learning a) the true definition of a "saint" and b) why believers should pray to God, not dead people. And why does your denomination practice idolatry: praying to statues? Don't you see the absurdity of praying to statues of the dead in heaven and showing Christ as still hanging on the cross?

Since I do things Jesus' way, unlike yourself, I am a member of His Body, the Church.

I believe what the Bible clearly says. Perhaps you should read it for yourself.

Well, then we have no more to say. Similarly, there were Jews in Jesus' day that said they would never believe that He was the Messiah! They "knew" better. There is not one teaching of Christ that the Catholic Church has changed from the very beginning. Not one.

Good luck!

 

[Jim B]

Well, then we have no more to say. Similarly, there were Jews in Jesus' day that said they would never believe that He was the Messiah! They "knew" better. There is not one teaching of Christ that the Catholic Church has changed from the very beginning. Not one.

Good luck!

There is not one teaching of Christ that even mentions the Catholic denomination. In fact, the word "Catholic" isn't found anywhere in the 66 "books" of Scripture!

I agree that we have no more to say, but I will respond to further posts of yours.

 

[Behold]

Are you aware that it's only been very recently in history that we have had universal literacy in the world? Before the Industrial Revolution, there was no interest at all in universal literacy, and vast, vast majority of the world's people were illiterate. Most work was manual labor and didn't require one to know how to read. And even then, it took a while for literacy to become of interest and taught in schools. I would say it has only been in the last 100 years or so that we The Catholic Church is the original Christian Church, founded by Christ.

Originally the CC was titled "The cult of Mary".

You should do some actual research, vs just parroting the twisted hand me downs.

 

[Behold]

And the term "personal relationship" isn't to be found in Scripture. It was made up recently from an historical viewpoint. It cannot replace receiving Jesus' Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity (the Eucharist) when we attend Mass.

Jesus said """"you must be born again.""""

The Cookie and the Juice can't magically do that for you, nor can the city water supply.

"Transubstantiation". is a cult teaching, and "the water washed your sin away" is one of the Devi's best "one liners".
Don't end up as his eternal Joke, Augustine56

 

[Augustin56]

Well, then we have no more to say. Similarly, there were Jews in Jesus' day that said they would never believe that He was the Messiah! They "knew" better. There is not one teaching of Christ that the Catholic Church has changed from the very beginning. Not one. And there have been a lot more educated Protestants than you, who took the same stand and were intellectually honest enough to study their way into the Catholic Church. Dr. Scott Hahn, for example, was one of the most adamant Protestant anti-Catholics. Then, he decided he would show Catholics how wrong they were by studying their actual beliefs, and comparing them to what the Early Church believed. He kept running into things, including Scriptural passages, that he had never expected. He now teaches at Franciscan University, a Catholic university. There are also many Catholics who have left the Church, but almost always because they didn't know their Catholic faith.

Good luck!