10 Questions about Eternal Security

[Ritajanice]

OSAS is not in question here. The test is to see whether or not their faith is genuine. Paul did not say "still" in the faith or "no longer" in the faith. Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. There are genuine Christians and there are "nominal" Christians. There are genuine believers and there are make believers.

Yes, I agree, but, we aren’t to judge who is or who isn’t, is that true?

As I was picked up on it yesterday by a member.

I received it, believe it was from God, plus God picked me up regarding pride in me.....oh this willfull self...doesn’t it get on one’s nerves.?

 

[mailmandan]

Only IF.... they abide IN Christ until the end of their lives.

To abide simply means to remain, continue, not to depart. Abiding in Christ is the demonstrative evidence that He has given us His Spirit.

1 John 4:13 - By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit. 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world. 15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.

So "IF" is a confirmation. In John 8:31, we read - ..IF you abide/continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine. Those who do not continue demonstrate they were not truly His disciples.

 

[Ritajanice]

To abide simply means to remain, continue, not to depart. Abiding in Christ is the demonstrative evidence that He has given us His Spirit.

Exactly....so, I wish he would explain that ?

I’ve asked so many times.

Just trying to understand where he is coming from?

 

[mailmandan]

Yes, I agree, but, we aren’t to judge who is or who isn’t, is that true?

As I was picked up on it yesterday by a member.

I received it, believe it was from God, plus God picked me up regarding pride in me.....oh this willfull self...doesn’t it get on one’s nerves.?

Only God can infallibly judge the hearts of others. To the remaining 11 disciples, Judas Iscariot looked like the real deal, yet Jesus knew his heart and said, "he is a devil!' (John 6:70)

 

[CadyandZoe]

The only way one can believe in eternal security is to only accept a few happy verses and throw the rest of God's Word in the trash.

This is not true at all. The scriptures are without error, inspired, and speak with one voice. We do not throw out some of God's word in order to make ourselves happy. If your interpretation of the rest of God's word doesn't square with the doctrine of eternal security, then perhaps your interpretation of the other verses is wrong.

You must not ignore or cut out verses about eternal security since these are also part of God's word. In order to gain a deeper understanding of the subject, let's turn to some other verses which help us get a clearer picture.

God's Word contains warnings written to Christians clearly indicating that it's very possible to for Christians to fall away from the Lord and end up going to hell.

Of course. God's word contains warnings. But how should we interpret those warnings? Do such warnings clearly indicate the possibility of falling away? Yes. Do such verses contradict the doctrine of eternal security? Not at all. Although falling away is something that some believers do; it isn't something that renders the promises of God null and void. Contingency doesn't necessarily indicate uncertainty.

Please take a look at the following passage, which comes from a conversation Jesus was having with the Pharisees.

John 8:52

The Jews said to Him, “Now we know that You have a demon. Abraham died, and the prophets also; and You say, ‘If anyone keeps My word, he will never taste of death.’ Surely You are not greater than our father Abraham, who died? The prophets died too; whom do You make Yourself out to be?” ​

The Scribes and Pharisees asked an important question, which Jesus took seriously. Abraham couldn't keep himself from death, let alone keep others from death, and neither could the prophets keep themselves from death. The Pharisee's objection contains an essential underlying assumption. God favored Abraham and blessed him; God was with the prophets and granted them his favor also. The scriptures clearly teach that God was working through the prophets and yet, not one of them was able to keep himself from death. They all died. What makes Jesus believe that he is any different than the other prophets? Jesus responds,

John 8:54-56

Jesus answered, “If I glorify Myself, My glory is nothing; it is My Father who glorifies Me, of whom you say, ‘He is our God’; and you have not come to know Him, but I know Him; and if I say that I do not know Him, I will be a liar like you, but I do know Him and keep His word. Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.” ​

it is My Father who glorifies me . . .
In this passage, Jesus communicates two important points: firstly, that he is the son of God, and secondly, that the Father will glorify him. What sets Jesus apart from Abraham and the prophets is that, being the son of God, the Father has made promises to him that were not made to Abraham or the prophets. In case we think Jesus' statement was an arrogant and empty boast, the Father himself will later prove that what Jesus said is true.

John 11:40-44

Jesus *said to [Martha], “Did I not say to you that if you believe, you will see the glory of God?” So they removed the stone. Then Jesus raised His eyes, and said, “Father, I thank You that You have heard Me. I knew that You always hear Me; but because of the people standing around I said it, so that they may believe that You sent Me.” When He had said these things, He cried out with a loud voice, “Lazarus, come forth.” The man who had died came forth, bound hand and foot with wrappings, and his face was wrapped around with a cloth. Jesus *said to them, “Unbind him, and let him go.”​

This miracle proves that the Father hears the prayers of Jesus and will raise his followers from the dead at the command of Jesus. At the command of Jesus, Lazarus walked out of the tomb alive. And he will do this again for all of his followers. Jesus' claim to be the resurrection and the live turned out to be true. And he will do it again.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-18

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.​

with a shout . . .
Paul records the promise of Jesus and how it will take place. The Lord himself will descend from heaven. With a shout (with a loud voice the dead in Christ will will rise.

in Christ
This is the key phrase, spoken often by Paul, essential to our understanding of eternal security. All those "in Christ" will be raised whether dead or alive at the descent of the Lord from heaven.

What are we saying?
The warnings in scripture indicate the contingency associated with salvation. But lest we should mistakenly believe that we are the locus of at the center of the contingency, Jesus and the apostles teach us that God promises to satisfy the contingency himself. Recall from the book of Genesis how God made a covenant with Abraham when God walked between the cuttings alone. This indicated that although God made a covenant with Abraham, which required that Abraham walk in faith and keep his part of the covenant, God would miraculously remove all contingency. The promises associated with the covenant rested on God alone.

We see this clearly in passages such as John 3, where Jesus points out that God is saving those in whom he places his spirit. Paul the apostle picks up on that idea in Romans 8.

Romans 8:9-11

However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. ​

if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you . . .
The essential aspect of salvation is whether or not the Spirit of God dwells in you. According to Paul all who have the Spirit of God dwelling in them will be saved. The Spirit himself will give life to your mortal bodies. Today we live in hope of salvation but tomorrow we will raised at the command of Jesus Christ according to a promise of the Father to glorify his son.

Romans 5:1-5

Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God. And not only this, but we also exult in our tribulations, knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance; and perseverance, proven character; and proven character, hope; and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.​

Hope does not disappoint . . .
This promise is assured and guaranteed to all those who have persevered under testing. This idea is also found in Jesus' parable of the sower, where he points out that the good soil represents the good and honest heart that will persevere in believing. The Father is the one who prepares the heart. The Father is the one who pours out his spirit into the heart. The Father is the one who puts the Spirit of Christ into those whom he is saving. God removes all contingency.

Eternal security is a miracle of God.

 

[Ritajanice]

Only God can infallibly judge the hearts of others. To the remaining 11 disciples, Judas Iscariot looked like the real deal, yet Jesus knew his heart and said, "he is a devil!' (John 6:70)

Thanks for confirming that Lord..through mailmandan....Praise God!!...for His Living Truth...it never fails to touch my heart.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

If your interpretation of the rest of God's word doesn't square with the doctrine of eternal security

That's rich coming from a cherry picker!

Of course. God's word contains warnings. But how should we interpret those warnings?

And then you proceed to cherry pick and claim God's warnings are written to someone other than to those that desire to walk with Him.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Although falling away is something that some believers do; it isn't something that renders the promises of God null and void.

Here we go again... the false belief that Christians will still be saved even if they live in sin... your boy Gnarly Charlie Stanley taught this and he's the leading proponent of the false doctrines of eternal security

In his book, Eternal Security, Stanley says

"Even if a believer for all practical purposes becomes an unbeliever, his salvation is not in jeopardy” (Chapter 10, p. 93)

“Christ will not deny an unbelieving Christian his or her salvation because to do so would be to deny Himself” (p. 94).

“Believers who lose or abandon their faith will retain their salvation, for God remains faithful” (p. 94)

He actually taught one can be a "gay christian" and still go to Heaven proving he is a false teacher!

Here's a video where you can see video of Charlies saying this (just a few minutes into the video)

In this video, Gnarly Charlie says he's proud of Andy and supports him after heresy charges

Can a Person Live a Life of Sin and Remain Saved?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Here we go again... the false belief that Christians will still be saved even if they live in sin... your boy Gnarly Charlie Stanley taught this and he's the leading proponent of the false doctrines of eternal security

In his book, Eternal Security, Stanley says

"Even if a believer for all practical purposes becomes an unbeliever, his salvation is not in jeopardy” (Chapter 10, p. 93)

“Christ will not deny an unbelieving Christian his or her salvation because to do so would be to deny Himself” (p. 94).

“Believers who lose or abandon their faith will retain their salvation, for God remains faithful” (p. 94)

He actually taught one can be a "gay christian" and still go to Heaven proving he is a false teacher!

Here's a video where you can see video of Charlies saying this (just a few minutes into the video)

In this video, Gnarly Charlie says he's proud of Andy and supports him after heresy charges

Can a Person Live a Life of Sin and Remain Saved?

what part of a child who is born of God can not live in sin do you fail to grasp?

 

[Godslittleservant]

Ritajanice you keep saying over and over " Why aren’t you explaining the Living Spiritual birth?.." you also always say but explain your view but not with scripture.
I would like to hear you answer your own question but unlike you I want you to use scripture to back your word for I trust scripture over your word any day because the word of God (scripture) is truth and life your word is just an opinion no bearing at all same as mine

 

[CadyandZoe]

That's rich coming from a cherry picker! View attachment 37976




And then you proceed to cherry pick and claim God's warnings are written to someone other than to those that desire to walk with Him.

View attachment 37977

How old are you? I've seen this before. It seems that you are intentionally trying to provoke and irritate me through continuous and harmful attacks. However, I can handle it. My only request is that you present me with logical arguments based on scripture and reason. So far, you have not provided any valid objections to what I have written. This could imply that you are uncertain about your own beliefs and are only certain about rejecting mine.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Here we go again... the false belief that Christians will still be saved even if they live in sin...

Did I say that? No, I didn't even suggest it.

It seems that your main objection is not with Eternal Security itself, but rather with those who use the doctrine to justify immoral behavior. It's important to note that how someone reacts to a doctrine is a separate issue from the truth of the doctrine itself. The fact that some dishonest individuals have used the doctrine to excuse their sinful actions is not a valid reason to reject the doctrine outright. People who have no respect for what is right or just can twist any doctrine to suit their own agenda. As others have already said, living in sin is a clear sign that God is NOT saving that individual.

I suggest we remain on topic and discuss the Biblical teaching on Eternal Security, which applies to those who are not unscrupulous or continue to live in sin.

And I have no interest in what Charles Stanley has to say about the subject. Let's keep our focus on what the Bible says.

 

[Ritajanice]

Ritajanice you keep saying over and over " Why aren’t you explaining the Living Spiritual birth?.." you also always say but explain your view but not with scripture.
I would like to hear you answer your own question but unlike you I want you to use scripture to back your word for I trust scripture over your word any day because the word of God (scripture) is truth and life your word is just an opinion no bearing at all same as mine

Explain what Jesus is saying here?

Scripture that shows that you were Born of God?

How did you become Born Again?

I had never read a Bible in my life, when I became Born of God.....he drew me to Jesus, he brought me to repentance, which is all biblical, he even brought me to believe in Jesus, I’m not saying he believed for me...I did that.....my birth was like the wind as scripture reads, he also testifies with our spirit.....all supernatural....and unfortunatley, I can’t show you him living in my spirit.

Jesus said we must be Born Again?.....and without the rebirth.....we are still in darkness and sin?

So, explain the rebirth as you asked me to do....posting scripture....not your opinion, as you said to me, it counts for nothing?

John 3:1-21​

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English Standard Version​

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You Must Be Born Again​

3 Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Jesus[a] by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.” 3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again[b] he cannot see the kingdom of God.”4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.[c] 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You[d] must be born again.’ 8 The wind[e] blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
9 Nicodemus said to him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know, and bear witness to what we have seen, but you[f] do not receive our testimony. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.[g] 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.[h]

For God So Loved the World​

16 “For God so loved the world,[i] that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. 19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. 21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”

I was birthed in the Spirit, it’s a supernatural event, that only God can do..I have explained my birth to you many times.

Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, `You must be born again


Being birthed in the Spirit, is a “ Living “ Birth?...only the Holy Spirit can birth you in the Spirit?

In Romans 8:16, though, Paul says, “The Spirit himself bears witness,” meaning that there is a special witness of the Holy Spirit to assure us that we are the children of God

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◄ John 3 ►

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Why did Jesus begin talking about the wind in relation to being born again? The Greek word for “wind” is pneuma, the same word used for “spirit.” When wind blows, we cannot see it, but we see where it has been. Tree leaves move, plants bend, and we feel the wind touch our faces. Yet no one can catch it or restrain it. When wind blows, it changes everything it touches. So it is with the Spirit. Spiritual birth is an act of the Holy Spirit. He is invisible, yet whenever He moves, there are definite changes. Neither persuasive words nor intellectual agreements have the power to make someone “born of God.” Only the Holy Spirit can perform that transformation in a repentant heart (Mark 1:15; Acts 2:38).

Berean Standard Bible Par ▾ Jesus and Nicodemus (Genesis 22:1–10; Romans 5:6–11) 1Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a leader of the Jews.2He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs You are doing if God were not with him.” 3Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.a” 4“How can a man be born when he is old?” Nicodemus asked. “Can he enter his mother’s womb a second time to be born?” 5Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh is born of flesh, but spirit is born of the Spirit. 7Do not be amazed that I said, ‘Youb must be born again.’ 8The wind blows where it wishes. You hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

 

[Ritajanice]

Ritajanice you keep saying over and over " Why aren’t you explaining the Living Spiritual birth?.." you also always say but explain your view but not with scripture.
I would like to hear you answer your own question but unlike you I want you to use scripture to back your word for I trust scripture over your word any day because the word of God (scripture) is truth and life your word is just an opinion no bearing at all same as mine

I tell you why I keep repeat,repeat, and I’ve explained many times to you?

If God hadn’t testified with our spirit that we are his child as he was indwelling me, when he Baptised me In the Spirit .

How would I know I was Born Again?

The indwelling of the Holy Spirit occurs one time. It is once for all. When Jesus Christ comes into your life as your Lord and Savior, His Spirit takes up permanent residence in you. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is for all believers

If one doesn’t know what Born Again means....then they have no authority to say, OSAS is false...why, because it sounds like that they need to check that they are in the Faith ?

Being Born of God...is by the will of God, not the will of man....

You do know that God’s word is Alive and Active don’t you?

Which means what exactly?

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◄ John 3 ►

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Berean Standard Bible Par ▾ Jesus and Nicodemus (Genesis 22:1–10; Romans 5:6–11) 1Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a leader of the Jews.2He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs You are doing if God were not with him.” 3Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.a” 4“How can a man be born when he is old?” Nicodemus asked. “Can he enter his mother’s womb a second time to be born?” 5Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh is born of flesh, but spirit is born of the Spirit. 7Do not be amazed that I said, ‘Youb must be born again.’ 8The wind blows where it wishes. You hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

 

[Ritajanice]

A Born Again who has been Born of God...has eternal security 100% ..period....a Born Again can NEVER lose their salvation ,why.....because they have been Born of God....do you know what an Honour and Privilege that is?

To become a child of the Living God!

It’s MIND BLOWING!!....and still it’s mind blowing, that God birthed me in the Spirit, 31 yrs and counting.

Praise Almighty God!!

Only he can open our heart to receive his word and there’s no power like it!! As his word says.

[12] For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

 

[Davy]

Spoken from the devil's point of view... seeking to twist God's Word to turn the grace of God in to lawlessness

Jude 1:4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

View attachment 37939

Yep!

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

How old are you? I've seen this before. It seems that you are intentionally trying to provoke and irritate me through continuous and harmful attacks.

Yeah, those that follow the false doctrines of the false teachers... typically claim other are attacking them when they point out their false doctrine isn't biblical. OSAS doctrine is false and not biblical.

It seems that your main objection is not with Eternal Security itself, but rather with those who use the doctrine to justify immoral behavior.

And those that claim to NOT use this false doctrine to justify immoral behavior.... go around telling others that "you cannot ever lose your salvation" and that is not only false doctrine, but is a stumbling block to others, a license to sin!

The OSAS peoples got blood on their hands and don't even know it!

And I have no interest in what Charles Stanley has to say about the subject

He's one of the leader of the OSAS Association Cabal and is at the top of the list of who's who in the OSAS zoo! Ask all your OSAS buddies and you'll find they all hold Gnarley Charlie Stanley in very high regard and some have even made an idol out of the man.

According to Jesus... there is no such thing as OSAS doctrine according to God's Word

Matthew 7:18,19
A corrupt tree cannot bring forth good fruit.
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

John 15:2
Every branch in Me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

 

[NayborBear]

The only way one can have total eternal security, is to have gone, or is going through the FIRST Resurrection!
And that is in the building of ones' own "Spiritual House" as Peter explains it in 1Peter 2:5! This Holy Priesthood built with "living stones" of spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God by Jesus Christ of Nazareth.
This Holy Priesthood is the Order of Melchizedek!
A FOREVER Priesthood!

So? It's NOT a bad thing to believe in the "rapture" or even OSAS doctrines!

For there IS a difference in "time frame", when it comes to Eternity and "everlasting" in the context between various earth and Heaven "AGES!"

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

So? It's NOT a bad thing to believe in the "rapture" or even OSAS doctrines!

There IS going to be a rapture according to scripture... but accordfing to scripture OSAS doctrine is in fact the doctrine of that screamin OSAS demon

 

[CadyandZoe]

Yeah, those that follow the false doctrines of the false teachers... typically claim other are attacking them when they point out their false doctrine isn't biblical. OSAS doctrine is false and not biblical.

So far we have shown from the Bible the verity of the doctrine of eternal security. And we maintain that a person's reaction to a doctrine does not prove the doctrine to be wrong.

And those that claim to NOT use this false doctrine to justify immoral behavior.... go around telling others that "you cannot ever lose your salvation" and that is not only false doctrine, but is a stumbling block to others, a license to sin!

We maintain that God will save those whom he chooses, and therefore, such people will eventually be led by the Holy Spirit to avoid sin and to live in righteousness, goodness, truth, and love.