10 Questions about Eternal Security

[Webers_Home]

~

1. Where did God say any man ever loses his free will on this earth?

Christ's free will trumps everybody else's free will when it comes to the security of all
that's been given him from above.

One of the many things that God gives His son is sheep. (John 10:27-30)

Now, whether the sheep like it or not, they're struck with Jesus because he's
determined to comply with his superior's instructions to lose nothing of what he's
been given.

"This is the will of the one who sent me; that I should not lose anything of what He gave
me." (John 6:39)

"I always do what is pleasing to Him." (John 8:29)

Were Christ to fail-- fail in any way at all --accomplishing the will of the one who sent
him; then it would be dishonest of Christ to claim to "always" please God. Christ might
be able to claim pleasing the one who sent him a high percentage of the time, but
certainly not always.

"I am the gate; whoever enters through me shall be saved." (John 10:9)

Were Christ a so-so shepherd; then he wouldn't dare say "shall be" saved; no, he'd
have to tone it down a bit and say "can be" saved. That would leave him some room for
error. But when Christ says "shall be" he's claiming a 0.0% failure rate. That's how
confident Christ is that he will lose nothing of what his Father has given him.

Were the good shepherd only human, then I would be inclined to agree with skeptics
that Jesus might fail to keep his sheep safe. But the Bible teaches that prior to the
Word's humanity, he was divine and had a hand in constructing the entire cosmos with
all of its forms of life, matter, and energy (John 1:1-3, Col 1:16-17). So then, the good
shepherd has all the powers and abilities of the supreme being at his disposal to ensure
he succeeds at keeping the sheep right where his Father wants them.
_

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Christ's free will trumps everybody else's free will when it comes to the security of all
that's been given him from above.

So one will be saved even if they live a life of sin!

That's what the false doctrines of John Calvin claims.

One of the many things that God gives His son is sheep. (John 10:27-30)

And God's Word warns that some fall away from the faith... you think they'll be saved anyway after turning their backs on the Lord and leaving Him to go serve satan by living in sin?

"This is the will of the one who sent me; that I should not lose anything of what He gave
me." (John 6:39)

Let's quote the whole thought Jesus spoke concerning this...

John 6:39,40
And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on Him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Notice the part "and believeth on Him"???

"Believeth" here is in the continuous tense just like it is in John 3:16

In order to be saved, one must continue believing and we know from the Book of James that faith without works (living like we are Christians) of of NO effect and is not saving faith that the Lord accepts.

Were Christ to fail-- fail in any way at all --accomplishing the will of the one who sent
him; then it would be dishonest of Christ to claim to "always" please God.

No, the Lord perfectly pleased the Father and it's no based on man's decisions at all.

"I am the gate; whoever enters through me shall be saved." (John 10:9)

Yes, initially... at the point in time they are saved... unless they fall away, and then they are no longer saved which is not Jesus' fault

But there are numerous warnings in God's Word concerning falling away from Him... and sadly, the false teachers ignore those warnings because they don't accept all that the Lord says... which is due to suffering from Cherry Pickers Syndrome... in that, they simply don't want to hear all the Lord says.

Sadly, many today that claim to love the Lord... don't believe everything He says in His Word is actually true!

John 15:1,2
I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

John 15:5
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

 

[Webers_Home]

~
● Luke 2:8-12 . . Now there were shepherds in that region living in the fields
and keeping the night watch over their flock. The angel of The Lord
appeared to them, and the glory of The Lord shone around them, and they
were struck with great fear.

. . .The angel said to them: Do not be afraid; for behold, I proclaim to you
good news of great joy that will be for all the people. For today in the city of
David a savior has been born for you who is Messiah and Lord.

The angel announced the birth of a savior. Webster's defines a "savior" as
one who rescues.

Rescuing is what the Coast Guard does when boats capsize. Rescuing is what
Firemen do when people are trapped inside burning buildings. Rescuing is
what mountaineer teams do when climbers are in trouble. Rescuing is what
EMT paramedics do when someone needs to get to a hospital in a hurry; and
kept alive till they arrive. Rescuing is what surgeons do when someone
needs an organ transplant.

I could go on and on giving example of rescuer after rescuer; but I think we
get the idea. The New Testament's Jesus is like that: he rescues people from
the wrath of God-- people who not only fully deserve it, but definitely in line
to get it; and with no humanly possible way to avoid it.

Now; of what real benefit would the savior of Luke 2:8-12 really be to
anybody if he couldn't guarantee a fail-safe rescue from the wrath of God?
He'd be of no benefit to anybody. No; he'd be an incompetent ninny that
nobody could rely on.

But, if a savior were to be announced who guaranteed anybody who wants it
a completely free of charge, no strings attached, guaranteed fail-safe, sin
proof, human nature-proof, Ten Commandments-proof, bad behavior-proof,
apostasy-proof, reprobate-proof, back-sliding proof, Sermon on the Mount
proof, God-proof, Devil-proof, irrevocable rescue from the wrath of God, and
full-time protection from future retribution; wouldn't that qualify as good
news of great joy?

I think just about everybody concerned about ending up on the wrong side
of things would have to agree with me that news like that would not only
most certainly be good; but also cause for celebration, and ecstatic
happiness.

FAQ: Why did the angel appear to only the shepherds?

REPLY: One possibility is that the date of Messiah's appearance was
accurately predicted in advance by the prophet Daniel to occur on what we
know as Palm Sunday (a.k.a. the Triumphal Entry) but the date of Messiah's
birth in Bethlehem wasn't predicted. Consequently, those sheep guys were
the only audience at hand instead of the thousands that one might expect at
such a significant event.
_

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

I could go on and on giving example of rescuer after rescuer

Jesus... is like Noah's Ark.

We are saved and secure IN Christ as long as we remain on the Ark.

But, those that walk after the flesh have jumped overboard.. and are no longer on the Ark.

Those folks that do this are no longer saved and secure because they have forsaken the One Who came to rescue them.

 

[Ritajanice]

So far we have shown from the Bible the verity of the doctrine of eternal security. And we maintain that a person's reaction to a doctrine does not prove the doctrine to be wrong.


We maintain that God will save those whom he chooses, and therefore, such people will eventually be led by the Holy Spirit to avoid sin and to live in righteousness, goodness, truth, and love.

Amen!!

 

[ScottA]

If a once truly born again believer can’t possibly go back to sin and go to hell, explain:

1. Where did God say any man ever loses his free will on this earth? (Joshua 24:15)
2. Where did God say that those He saves cannot ever go back to sin?
3. How and why are the wages of sin no longer death? (Romans 6:23)
4. Why did God separate Adam and Eve from Himself when they sinned and yet now somehow changed and keeps rebels, violators, unrepentant sinners in His kingdom? (Genesis 3:24; Malachi 3:6)
5. Explain why God is no longer just?
6. Explain why God no longer punishes sin, especially in the unrepentant? (Romans 2:6-7)
7. Explain why God is no longer holy and therefore can and will keep rebels in His holy, eternal kingdom? (Isaiah 6:3; Revelation 4:8)
8. Explain why you claim Jesus lied when He said a man can “believe” and then “fall away” if such is not possible? (Luke 8:13)
9. Explain why Christ’s apostle Paul warned all New Testament believers, namely Gentiles, that they will be “cut off” from and by God if they do not continue in His goodness? (Romans 11:20-22)
10. Explain why Jesus told the Church at Laodicea, His own people, that if they become “lukewarm,” He would reject, spue them out of His mouth? (Revelation 3:15-16)

The answers to your questions are not a problem, but your motivation is. You are obviously trying to promote your own errored understanding of what is written. But your misunderstanding of the scriptures is not the measure of what is true. One's own rationale is not the source--God is. Here are the answers according to God, which are true whether one understands them or not. Hear and understand now, or weep later:

1. Joshua 24:15 has very little to do with it. But the answer is this: Whereas "the lamb was slain before the foundation of the world" so was freewill for or against salvation. Meaning the would-be timeline of the history of this world is rather a storyline revealing all that was already true "before the foundation of the world", which was to be before the judgement. History is the last will and testament.
2. Same answer as #1: It was all finished except for the revealing of it, "before the foundation of the world." Therefore, nothing that happens in the world changes anything, it simply reveals it as it was written and recorded. These things are now only being made manifest as they were done "before the foundation of the world."
3. Same answer as #2. Nothing has changed but the revealing of what was "before the foundation of the world."
4. Same answer as above. But thanks for bringing up Malachi 3:6 (“For I am the Lord, I do not change; Therefore you are not consumed, O sons of Jacob." That's exactly what I have been saying--nothing has changed since "before the foundation of the world" when all these things were finished and recorded, and now only revealed.
5. God is just. The revealing of history and all that was already true "before the foundation of the world" is now made manifest as the last will and testament of the condemned before the Judgement, by their own living testimony "but each one in his own order."
6. "Now" is the time of testimony. "Punishment" comes to all "but each one in his own order."
7. God is holy...you simply have the wrong idea about even what the world is (explained in the above answers).
8. Jesus didn't lie...again, you simply do not understand.
9. The apostle Paul spoke to people in every phase of their unfolding revealing freewill and their salvation finished "before the foundation of the world." Thus, just as he had warned many "before the foundation of the world" he warned them also in the revealing of all things made manifest, just as it was recorded and written ("before the foundation of the world").
10. Same answer as #9. What occurred, was recorded, written, and "finished" "before the foundation of the world" is then all revealed and made manifest as a testimony before the judgement, just as it was written before hand. These are mere enactments of what was "before the foundation of the world." As it is written, "God is the same yesterday, today, and forever." This is what I have been telling you.

 

[Webers_Home]

~
● 1Pet 3:15b . . Be ready always to give an answer to every man that asks
you a reason of the hope that is in you.

The Greek word for "hope" in that passage, and in others (e.g. Rom 8:23
25) pertains to expectations; viz: it isn't wishful thinking, nor crossing your
fingers; no, it's a confident kind of hope that looks forward to something,
and fully expects to obtain it; i.e. it's an anticipating hope; viz: it doesn't
pray for the best, while in the back of its mind dreading the worst.

When people aren't 110% sure what the afterlife has in store for them-- if
there is even the slightest glimmer of concern, anxiety, or unease --they
can't possibly comply with Peter's instructions for the simple reason that the
hope that is in them, if any, is the wrong kind of hope.

● Rom 12:12 . . Rejoice in hope.

When people are praying for the best, while in the back of their mind
dreading the worst, they have absolutely no cause for rejoicing; no; but they
do have plenty of cause to fear the unknown.

● Eph 4:4 . .You were also called to the one hope

When people are in doubt about their afterlife circumstances; it's an
indication that they have not yet responded to the call to the one hope;
quite possibly because they're either unaware of it, don't believe such a
thing is available, have enough religion already, or worse: indifferent.

● 1Pet 1:3 . . Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! By his
great mercy we have been born anew to a living hope

Peter's "living hope" is the same Greek word as before; which speaks of
confident expectation. When people lack the living hope it can only be
because they have not yet been born anew seeing as that's how living hope
is obtained;
_

 

[Jack]

If we can NEVER be unsaved what's the point of defending it? It's like OSASers are trying to convince each other.

 

[ScottA]

If we can NEVER be unsaved what's the point of defending it? It's like OSASers are trying to convince each other.

You should consider (before assuming to be correct) that God being "the same, yesterday, today, and forever" is a "OSASer."

But to answer your question: It is our good work to defend the gospel, to make corrections, and to give reproof--to keep it holy, when confronted with error.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

If we can NEVER be unsaved what's the point of defending it? It's like OSASers are trying to convince each other.

It's really eye opening to see who all believes this false doctrine while denying they are Calvinists.

THE ORIGIN OF OSAS: (Once Saved Always Saved)

OSAS can easily be traced back to John Calvin (1509-1564) from Synod of Dort under the description of the perseverance of the saints. But did you know that it, and other points of Calvinism, can be traced more than one thousand years earlier to Augustine of Hippo (354-430)?

This was the theme about which Augustine structured his thinking during the last half of his writing ministry. As he put it: whatsoever persons are through the riches of divine grace exempted from the original sentence of condemnation are undoubtedly brought to hear the Gospel, and when hearing they are caused to believe it, and are made likewise to endure to the end in the faith which works by love, and should they at any time to astray, they are recovered and set right again. (Here are Election and Eternal Security.)

 

[Jack]

You should consider (before assuming to be correct) that God being "the same, yesterday, today, and forever" is a "OSASer."

But to answer your question: It is our good work to defend the gospel, to make corrections, and to give reproof--to keep it holy, when confronted with error.

Then why so many warnings to Christians in the NT?

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Just bc someone believes a thing does not make it true!
Many are indoctrinated so deeply they will need & maybe heed only the Holy Spirit to pull them out.

To spit and fight with those in ritualistic denoms who follow man made traditions is silly. Especially if one own pot is black also.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

If we can NEVER be unsaved what's the point of defending it? It's like OSASers are trying to convince each other.

Great point!

It's kinda like the atheists that go so far out of their way to argue against something that claim does not exist!

Another thing to consider is... if it weren't possible to turn away from the Lord, then why is the devil continually trying to tempt Christians to turn away?

He wouldn't be wasting his time on something that was not possible.

 

[Behold]

. if it weren't possible to turn away from the Lord, then why is the devil continually trying to tempt Christians to turn away?

Demas turned away from the Faith.
He's in heaven now.

Let me show you something..

You can turn away from your parents, for the rest of your life., and you'll still be their son/daughter, forever.
Why?
Because you were BORN of them..... So, you can't stop being their Son/Daughter...., but you can turn away from them, forever.

And that is the same with CHRISTianity.

See, once a person is BORN Again Spiritually, by Father God, then that is a BIRTH, and you can't stop being "born again"..
You can fall away later.
You can turn away.
You can run away..

But what can't be done, is to be "un-born again". As this spiritual new birth is God caused... and its like being born of your mother.
You dont control that...

Now, the pride filled, who dont understand salvation, and dont actually understand anything about being born again,... like to rant and rave about "losing it".
These baby believers, or religious but lost, obsess on "OSAS"..

So...This is the most common aspect of a baby christian, as all the "beginners level" "diaper babies" who live as Hebrews 6:1, all talk about their works, their commandment keeping, their water baptism, and how they can lose their salvation.
Some of them, mature, and once that happens, they would never be found again in public teaching such anti-Cross theology.

 

[ScottA]

Then why so many warnings to Christians in the NT?

Because the new testament was written and first preached on the cusp of salvation just arriving when many were of one fold and many of another, when many believed and many did not but perhaps only in part, when many were being saved while many were not yet saved, and so that we also who would come after, whether we are at any one of those places would take heed.

But do consider also, that one who is [actually] saved, having already passed from death to life--does such a one, one who no longer even lives, but in whom it is Christ who lives--does such a one need to be warned...as if to say Christ himself needs to be warned? And what explanation could there really be to the contrary...that one could actually reenter the spiritual womb of God and be passed back into the belly of fallen humanity? Not even Nicodemus would fall for that!

 

[ScottA]

Another thing to consider is... if it weren't possible to turn away from the Lord, then why is the devil continually trying to tempt Christians to turn away?

Because many were falsely taught and remain on the fence.

 

[Jack]

Because the new testament was written and first preached on the cusp of salvation just arriving when many were of one fold and many of another, when many believed and many did not but perhaps only in part, when many were being saved while many were not yet saved, and so that we also who would come after, whether we are at any one of those places would take heed.

But do consider also, that one who is [actually] saved, having already passed from death to life--does such a one, one who no longer even lives, but in whom it is Christ who lives--does such a one need to be warned...as if to say Christ himself needs to be warned? And what explanation could there really be to the contrary...that one could actually reenter the spiritual womb of God and be passed back into the belly of fallen humanity? Not even Nicodemus would fall for that!

The NT isn't for us?

 

[Taken]

10 Questions about Eternal Security
Tread Title ^

10 OP Questions that have no basis in such claims being made by ANYONE.

You trying to prove a point regarding an others belief, BASED on your Understanding of an others Belief, which you do Not understand, with questions the other does not believe, is a weird deflection.

OSAS, applies ONLY to those who ARE Sanctified.

ANY others, (not Sanctified), can believe, can stop believing, can believe, doubt, can believe, can be Seen in Church every Sunday, can be members of a man-made church, can be a nice guy, can preach the Word, and can still at any time stop believing.

OSAS, has nothing to do with LOSING ones “FREEWILL”.

An individual person CHOOSING to exercise THEIR FREEWILL, to make a Vow, a Promise, it IS them exercising their FREEWILL to make a Vow, A Promise.

Not a big secret, individuals make Promises for all kinds of things to all kinds of people.
AND routinely BREAK their Promises.

Bottom line, seems you are concerned, to not have the OPTION for a man to BREAK his Promise to God.

Simple remedy…don’t make a Promise to God…!!

Simple knowledge…of Gods Word…
Be diligent…read, study, know FOR SURE “IF” you want to make a promise TO GOD.
Be sure….read, study, know FOR SURE “IF” you want to make a promise TO GOD…
THAT “HIS” POWER will KEEP you FAITHFUL from being a LIAR, and breaking your Promise to Him.
(Because you do realize, that every promise / vow you have made, that you have broken, MADE you a LIAR).

God does not DESIRE men to LIE to Him.
God does not COMMUNICATE with human men from the thoughts of a human mans MIND.
God IS Spirit, and Receives COMMUNICATION from the “SPIRIT” of a human man, not the man’s MIND.
More Specifically, God does not hear the Communications of a human mans “NATURAL Spirit”. (Because it is corrupt.)
AND WHY a natural spirit of man, requires an intercessor, to SPEAK his desire to become Sanctified. THAT intercessor, IS Christ the Lord Jesus.
IF a man DESIRES to HAVE his own natural spirit, BORN AGAIN… THAT is where the man is told to BE Diligent, BE Sure, BFFORE making his desire KNOWN to the intercessor.
BECAUSE ONCE God is informed of an individuals DESIRE…..
It is God Himself who teaches…TEST EVERYTHING….Because He does…He searches the mans Natural spirit, TO SEE if his “desire” his “plea” his “request” IS true or not.

True? God gives that individual what God Promised and what God Offered and what the individual is Asking to receive.
False? The man LIED, and no consideration of giving that man what he is asking for.

2 Pet 1:
[10] Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

Heb 10:
[14] For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

THEY who ARE sanctified, ARE sanctified FOR HOW LONG?

FOR EVER.

Once a man IS Saved FOR HOW LONG IS that man SAVED?

ALWAYS.

Rom 4:
[16] Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

 

[Jack]

10 Questions about Eternal Security
Tread Title ^

10 OP Questions that have no basis in such claims being made by ANYONE.

You trying to prove a point regarding an others belief, BASED on your Understanding of an others Belief, which you do Not understand, with questions the other does not believe, is a weird deflection.

OSAS, applies ONLY to those who ARE Sanctified.

ANY others, (not Sanctified), can believe, can stop believing, can believe, doubt, can believe, can be Seen in Church every Sunday, can be members of a man-made church, can be a nice guy, can preach the Word, and can still at any time stop believing.

OSAS, has nothing to do with LOSING ones “FREEWILL”.

An individual person CHOOSING to exercise THEIR FREEWILL, to make a Vow, a Promise, it IS them exercising their FREEWILL to make a Vow, A Promise.

Not a big secret, individuals make Promises for all kinds of things to all kinds of people.
AND routinely BREAK their Promises.

Bottom line, seems you are concerned, to not have the OPTION for a man to BREAK his Promise to God.

Simple remedy…don’t make a Promise to God…!!

Simple knowledge…of Gods Word…
Be diligent…read, study, know FOR SURE “IF” you want to make a promise TO GOD.
Be sure….read, study, know FOR SURE “IF” you want to make a promise TO GOD…
THAT “HIS” POWER will KEEP you FAITHFUL from being a LIAR, and breaking your Promise to Him.
(Because you do realize, that every promise / vow you have made, that you have broken, MADE you a LIAR).

God does not DESIRE men to LIE to Him.
God does not COMMUNICATE with human men from the thoughts of a human mans MIND.
God IS Spirit, and Receives COMMUNICATION from the “SPIRIT” of a human man, not the man’s MIND.
More Specifically, God does not hear the Communications of a human mans “NATURAL Spirit”. (Because it is corrupt.)
AND WHY a natural spirit of man, requires an intercessor, to SPEAK his desire to become Sanctified. THAT intercessor, IS Christ the Lord Jesus.
IF a man DESIRES to HAVE his own natural spirit, BORN AGAIN… THAT is where the man is told to BE Diligent, BE Sure, BFFORE making his desire KNOWN to the intercessor.
BECAUSE ONCE God is informed of an individuals DESIRE…..
It is God Himself who teaches…TEST EVERYTHING….Because He does…He searches the mans Natural spirit, TO SEE if his “desire” his “plea” his “request” IS true or not.

True? God gives that individual what God Promised and what God Offered and what the individual is Asking to receive.
False? The man LIED, and no consideration of giving that man what he is asking for.

2 Pet 1:
[10] Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

Heb 10:
[14] For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

THEY who ARE sanctified, ARE sanctified FOR HOW LONG?

FOR EVER.

Once a man IS Saved FOR HOW LONG IS that man SAVED?

ALWAYS.

Rom 4:
[16] Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Then why are OSASers trying to convince themselves? What's the point?

 

[Taken]

Then why are OSASers trying to convince themselves? What's the point?

People who believe in having received Eternal Salvation, ARE individuals like any one else who shares a basic core belief…
they discuss, they have different depths of learning and study and ideas of HOW and WHY they have PERSONALLY landed on that belief.

What’s the point of ANY two persons have a conversation or sharing WHY they share the SAME belief with an OTHER, yet having ARRIVED at their Belief through different avenues?

Person (A) can state their belief….and expound they believe “whatever”, BECAUSE…
Daddy believed that, Mommy believed that, a teacher said it was so, a preacher said it was so, their friend said, their spouse said….
WHILE:
Person (B) can state their belief, similar to Person (A), but Believe it because the Word of God says it is so.

Point being, People can have the SAME beliefs for DIFFERENT reasonings.
Discussing, Revealing their reasonings amongst themselves…

BOTHERS YOU WHY?
It has nothing to do with you.