12 reasons why hell is not eternal conscious torment

[logabe]

Not biblical logabe. They are already dead, the time of salvation has come and gone brother. Nonbelievers are not granted eternal life after the GWT. There is a reason why they call in the second death. Either you're written in the book of life or not. (Rev 20:12 NIV The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.)

Rev 20:11-15 NIV Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

Most Christians believe that the 1st Resurrection is where all believers are finally raptured to be with
the Lord forever more, but that's not what the scriptures teach. The scriptures teach that the first fruits
or (1st Resurrection Saints) will begin the process of the Restoration of all things (Acts 3:21).

21 whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all
things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets
from ancient time.

We are waiting for Jesus to come back a second time to begin the process by which the rest of the world
will be reconciled. Most Christians don't believe that, because that is the way they have been taught for the
last 1600 years. It's not their fault, but their eyes have been opened to this type of darkness because of
their teachers. Just as the Israelites rejected a direct relationship with God @ Mount Sinai, they prefer to
listen to man rather than God.

Notice what Peter is saying. Until the period of the Restoration of all things, meaning, it doesn't begin until
Jesus comes back and gives the Overcomers immortal life (Romans 8:19).

19 For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the
revealing of the sons of God.

The Restoration begins when the Sons of God are manifested or made known to the rest of the creation. In
other words, the Sons of God will be doing what Jesus done 2000 years prior. They will be healing, delivering,
and teaching the truth of the Gospel (Isa. 2:2-4).

2 Now it will come about that in the last days the mountain of the house
of the Lord will be established as the chief of the mountains, And will be
raised above the hills; And all the nations will stream to it.
3 And many peoples will come and say, “come, let us go up to the mountain
of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; That He may teach us
concerning His ways and that we may walk in His paths. ”for the law will
go forth from Zion and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
4 And He will judge between the nations, And will render decisions for
many peoples; And they will hammer their swords into plowshares and
their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not lift up sword against nation,
and never again will they learn war.

That hasn't happened yet, but it will in the near future, because the prophets spoke that the Restoration @
some point in history would take hold of the creation and begin a reconciliation that has never been seen in
all of the world's existence. So what is God been doing for the last 6000 years?

He has been taking out a people for His name sake (Acts 15:14) to build back the Tabernacle of David that
has fallen down. In essence, God has been calling out a people that will be used to set up His Government
upon this earth, where the Saints of the Most High will reign over the creation through righteousness.

Aren't we tired of man ruling over us?

I said all of that so we can know that God will not leave our children or grandchildren in this make believe
place called the Lake of Fire. I believe there is a Lake of Fire, but it's not what man is teaching. Man is
teaching what Hollywood believes about God, church, religion, and they give Hollywood a lot of bullets to
shoot @ the human race about the things they think is God.

The 1st death is fixing to end for the Overcomers, but it will continue through the Tabernacles Age, but it
will end @ the G.W.T. and the 2nd death will begin. The second death is a period of time where the Sons
of God will judge the people that didn't allow the Blood of Jesus to cover their sins. Their time ended and
their sins wasn't atoned so God created the 2nd death for the purpose of their reconciliation (2nd Cor. 5:19).

Do I want to go through the Lake of Fire? Heck no, but if one of my kin has to go, then, I know God will
not throw him or her away, but God will correct them and give them life in the future.

Now that's good news!

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe

 

[ATP]

The 1st death is fixing to end for the Overcomers, but it will continue through the Tabernacles Age, but it
will end @ the G.W.T. and the 2nd death will begin. The second death is a period of time where the Sons
of God will judge the people that didn't allow the Blood of Jesus to cover their sins. Their time ended and
their sins wasn't atoned so God created the 2nd death for the purpose of their reconciliation (2nd Cor. 5:19).

Do I want to go through the Lake of Fire? Heck no, but if one of my kin has to go, then, I know God will
not throw him or her away, but God will correct them and give them life in the future.

Born again Christians will not be a part of the lake of fire,
that is only for nonbelievers who haven't accepted Jesus as Savior in this lifetime.
When I say "first resurrection", I'm referring to Rev 20:4-6.
I feel as though we are going in circles here, we should move on logabe.

 

[logabe]

Born again Christians will not be a part of the lake of fire,
that is only for nonbelievers who haven't accepted Jesus as Savior in this lifetime.
When I say "first resurrection", I'm referring to Rev 20:4-6.
I feel as though we are going in circles here, we should move on logabe.

You are right... they want be a part of the Lake of Fire and only nonbelievers will be thrown into
the Lake of Fire or as I like to call it the "second death".

When I say 1st Resurrection, I'm referring to Rev. 20:4-6 also, where just the Overcomers are
raised, but the rest of the believers that didn't overcome will be raised with the unbeliever in the
second resurrection just before the G.W.T. They will not be thrown into the second death, but
they will be corrected for a period of time (Luke 12:45-48).

My point is, most Christians don't understand what the 1st death is, so how can they comprehend
what the 2nd death is. The 1st death is what we have been living in for the last 6000 years, which
Paul calls the wages of sin is death.

There was no death until Adam disobeyed God. When Adam sinned all mankind was plunged into
the 1st death. In other words, the mind of man became carnal, thus, bringing forth the 1st death.
Paul tells us in Rom. 8:6,

6 For to be carnally minded is death,

In essence, we became independent from God in our minds. Our mind became a god that could see
and hear something other than the voice of the True God. So don't we think the 2nd death will be
something like the 1st death? The second death is when God will raise the unbeliever in his or her
carnal mind a second time so that person can pay for the crimes he/she has committed.

So when we are begotten of God by believing on the Lord Jesus that death sentence is voided. We
escape the 2nd death through the Blood of Jesus by believing in His death, burial & resurrection.

But if we live this life without recognizing and believing in Jesus, we will have to spend a long time
in the Lake of Fire, which is, the second death.

It will be a period of time where God will deal with the unbelievers by using the Overcomers to teach
them the ways of God. They will have to go through fiery trials like we do , but this will be for a very
long time. The ultimate goal is to reconcile these people so they can eventually enter the Kingdom of
God.

God will use the 2nd death to bring all of His enemies into the Kingdom of God, so that God can be All
in All (1st Cor. 15:28). As Overcomers, we will have the ability to enter the Lake of Fire, but it will not
have power over us, because we will be immortal and our minds will be the Mind of Christ, which is life.

We will be walking in the midst of the Lake of Fire like Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, and the fire
will be our friend, because that Fire is a "Consuming Fire". It will destroy whatever has a person bound
just like the three Hebrew boys in the fiery furnace.

Will it be fun for the unbeliever? No... but it will be necessary in order to bring that person out of the
kingdom of the carnal mind.

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe

 

[Keeth]

That the Emperor was the restrainer was an accepted view for a long time. When Rome fell to the German tribes, the Emperor in Constantinople was assumed to be the restrainer. When Constantinople fell, the duty fell to the Tzar (Russian for "Caesar"). After the Tzar was assassinated by atheist communists, the spread their anti-Christian Communist dogma around the world bringing about half its population under their atheist, materialist, rule, in the following 50 years by means of bloody revolutions. It would seem that the early church may have had a good handle on who the restrainer was.

Those who, without Biblical sanction, separated themselves from the Church which Jesus had established in order to "re-form" it according to their own, personal tastes, used a wide range of propaganda to convince their uneducated peasants that there was good reason to do so. That the pope was the anti-Christ was one of the propaganda "talking points" of the so-called "re-formers." Many people who are still in that re-formed tradition hold to the tradition of making a point to go out of their way to insult the bishop of Rome by calling him the anti-Christ. (As you have done in a semi-stealthy manner)

This looks like subject for another thread, still such rubbish should be addressed. No stealth here, the Pope is and always has been anti-christ. He asuumes a position and authority which belong to Christ alone. Those who addressed the continuous and murderous abuses of the antichristian church had every right and good reason to do so. The uneducated peasents you speak of were uneducated because the spiritually fornicatious relationship between the kings of the earth and the antichristian system of the papacy would not allow for their education. Such a system requires and implements a superior few of "nobility" and clergy, to dominate and abuse the inferior of thier own creation, whose life and blood they suck dry for their own sustenance and aggrandizement. I would be more than happy to go far more in depth with you on this one on another thread. Please do start one to defend your lies I quoted, where we can more closely examine the issue.

 

[ATP]

When I say 1st Resurrection, I'm referring to Rev. 20:4-6 also, where just the Overcomers are
raised, but the rest of the believers that didn't overcome will be raised with the unbeliever in the
second resurrection just before the G.W.T. They will not be thrown into the second death, but
they will be corrected for a period of time (Luke 12:45-48).

Incorrect. The term "overcomers" is in reference to the cross.
All who accept Jesus as savior has overcome death.
Believers are subject to the Bema Seat of Christ,
and nonbelievers only are subject to the GWT.

John 5:24 NIV “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

 

[JimParker]

the Pope is and always has been anti-christ. He asuumes a position and authority which belong to Christ alone.

<<Those who addressed the continuous and murderous abuses of the antichristian church had every right and good reason to do so. The uneducated peasents you speak of were uneducated because the spiritually fornicatious relationship between the kings of the earth and the antichristian system of the papacy would not allow for their education.>> Such a system requires and implements a superior few of "nobility" and clergy, to dominate and abuse the inferior of thier own creation, whose life and blood they suck dry for their own sustenance and aggrandizement. I would be more than happy to go far more in depth with you on this one on another thread. Please do start one to defend your lies I quoted, where we can more closely examine the issue.

<<he Pope is and always has been anti-christ. He asuumes a position and authority which belong to Christ alone.>>

I've heard that! And it's always from some ignorant, Catholic-hating, bigot! (Not you, of course!)

If the pope has assumed "a position and authority which belong to Christ alone" then so has the head of every Protestant denomination and they are all anti-Christs.

<<<<Those who addressed the continuous and murderous abuses of the antichristian church had every right and good reason to do so. The uneducated peasents you speak of were uneducated because the spiritually fornicatious relationship between the kings of the earth and the antichristian system of the papacy would not allow for their education.>>

That is a very good representation of the standard, anti-KATH-lick, hate-filled, rant that I hear/see from the average anti-Catholic, bigot, igmo, who, with regard to theology and history, regularly has difficulty distinguishing between a sphincter and a post hole.

Thank you for that identification of "kinds of people to avoid." Though, people who recite such excremental nonsense often give themselves away by wearing white robes with pointed hoods and also hate Jews, blacks, Mexicans, Italians, Irish, American Indians, and a variety of others. (Though they do seem to keep a warm spot in their hearts for old, German, WWII veterans. Go figure!)

The historically verifiable fact is, of course, that the Catholic church was the primary (often only) source of education during the "dark ages" after the collapse of the Roman Empire.

Your posting of some of the rhetoric of those poor, disillusioned, ignorant, gullible people who have been deceived by the Devil into a religious hatred not unlike that of the members of ISIS, is an excellent warning to us all about what kind of people to pay no attention to and to avoid because their irrational hatred based in pathological paranoia identifies them as people who might be dangerous.

Many thanks.

You've done us all a great service.

You have a FABULOUS DAY!

Father Jim Parker

 

[Keeth]

<<he Pope is and always has been anti-christ. He asuumes a position and authority which belong to Christ alone.>>

I've heard that! And it's always from some ignorant, Catholic-hating, bigot! (Not you, of course!)

If the pope has assumed "a position and authority which belong to Christ alone" then so has the head of every Protestant denomination and they are all anti-Christs.

<<<<Those who addressed the continuous and murderous abuses of the antichristian church had every right and good reason to do so. The uneducated peasents you speak of were uneducated because the spiritually fornicatious relationship between the kings of the earth and the antichristian system of the papacy would not allow for their education.>>

That is a very good representation of the standard, anti-KATH-lick, hate-filled, rant that I hear/see from the average anti-Catholic, bigot, igmo, who, with regard to theology and history, regularly has difficulty distinguishing between a sphincter and a post hole.

Thank you for that identification of "kinds of people to avoid." Though, people who recite such excremental nonsense often give themselves away by wearing white robes with pointed hoods and also hate Jews, blacks, Mexicans, Italians, Irish, American Indians, and a variety of others. (Though they do seem to keep a warm spot in their hearts for old, German, WWII veterans. Go figure!)

The historically verifiable fact is, of course, that the Catholic church was the primary (often only) source of education during the "dark ages" after the collapse of the Roman Empire.

Your posting of some of the rhetoric of those poor, disillusioned, ignorant, gullible people who have been deceived by the Devil into a religious hatred not unlike that of the members of ISIS, is an excellent warning to us all about what kind of people to pay no attention to and to avoid because their irrational hatred based in pathological paranoia identifies them as people who might be dangerous.

Many thanks.

You've done us all a great service.

You have a FABULOUS DAY!

Father Jim Parker

What a load of crap. As soon as anyone points out ugly truths about the history of Catholicism, they are instantly declared anti-Catholic bigots. Can you please tell which Protestant Pastor has ever made the following claim. All emphasis mine.

[SIZE=12pt]Medieval Sourcebook:
Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam, 1302[/SIZE]


[SIZE=12pt]THE BULL UNAM SANCTAM , 1302[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]The Bull 'Unam Sanctam', in which Pope Boniface VIII asserted his rights against King Phillip the Fair of France, is a landmark in the history of the doctrine of Papal Primacy. [/SIZE]


[SIZE=12pt]The following English translation of 'Unam' is taken from a doctoral dissertation written in the Dept. of Philosophy at the Catholic University of America, and published by CUA Press in 1927.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]UNAM SANCTAM (Promulgated November 18, 1302)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Urged by faith, we are obliged to believe and to maintain that the Church is one, holy, catholic, and also apostolic. We believe in her firmly and we confess with simplicity that outside of her there is neither salvation nor the remission of sins, as the Spouse in the Canticles [Sgs 6:8] proclaims: 'One is my dove, my perfect one. She is the only one, the chosen of her who bore her,' and she represents one sole mystical body whose Head is Christ and the head of Christ is God [1 Cor 11:3]. In her then is one Lord, one faith, one baptism [Eph 4:5]. There had been at the time of the deluge only one ark of Noah, prefiguring the one Church, which ark, having been finished to a single cubit, had only one pilot and guide, i.e., Noah, and we read that, outside of this ark, all that subsisted on the earth was destroyed. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]We venerate this Church as one, the Lord having said by the mouth of the prophet: 'Deliver, O God, my soul from the sword and my only one from the hand of the dog.' [Ps 21:20] He has prayed for his soul, that is for himself, heart and body; and this body, that is to say, the Church, He has called one because of the unity of the Spouse, of the faith, of the sacraments, and of the charity of the Church. This is the tunic of the Lord, the seamless tunic, which was not rent but which was cast by lot [Jn 19:23-24]. Therefore, of the one and only Church there is one body and one head, not two heads like a monster; that is, Christ and the Vicar of Christ, Peter and the successor of Peter, since the Lord speaking to Peter Himself said: 'Feed my sheep' [Jn 21:17], meaning, my sheep in general, not these, nor those in particular, whence we understand that He entrusted all to him [Peter]. Therefore, if the Greeks or others should say that they are not confided to Peter and to his successors, they must confess not being the sheep of Christ, since Our Lord says in John 'there is one sheepfold and one shepherd.' We are informed by the texts of the gospels that in this Church and in its power are two swords; namely, the spiritual and the temporal. For when the Apostles say: 'Behold, here are two swords' [Lk 22:38] that is to say, in the Church, since the Apostles were speaking, the Lord did not reply that there were too many, but sufficient. Certainly the one who denies that the temporal sword is in the power of Peter has not listened well to the word of the Lord commanding: 'Put up thy sword into thy scabbard' [Mt 26:52]. Both, therefore, are in the power of the Church, that is to say, the spiritual and the material sword, but the former is to be administered _for_ the Church but the latter by the Church; the former in the hands of the priest; the latter by the hands of kings and soldiers, but at the will and sufferance of the priest. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]However, one sword ought to be subordinated to the other and temporal authority, subjected to spiritual power.[/SIZE] For since the Apostle said: 'There is no power except from God and the things that are, are ordained of God' [Rom 13:1-2], but they would not be ordained if one sword were not subordinated to the other and if the inferior one, as it were, were not led upwards by the other.

[SIZE=12pt]For, according to the Blessed Dionysius, it is a law of the divinity that the lowest things reach the highest place by intermediaries. Then, according to the order of the universe, all things are not led back to order equally and immediately, but the lowest by the intermediary, and the inferior by the superior. Hence we must recognize the more clearly that spiritual power surpasses in dignity and in nobility any temporal power whatever, as spiritual things surpass the temporal. This we see very clearly also by the payment, benediction, and consecration of the tithes, but the acceptance of power itself and by the government even of things. For with truth as our witness, it belongs to spiritual power to establish the terrestrial power and to pass judgement if it has not been good. Thus is accomplished the prophecy of Jeremias concerning the Church and the ecclesiastical power: 'Behold to-day I have placed you over nations, and over kingdoms' and the rest. Therefore, if the terrestrial power err, it will be judged by the spiritual power; but if a minor spiritual power err, it will be judged by a superior spiritual power; but if the highest power of all err, it can be judged only by God, and not by man, according to the testimony of the Apostle: 'The spiritual man judgeth of all things and he himself is judged by no man' [1 Cor 2:15]. This authority, however, (though it has been given to man and is exercised by man), is not human but rather divine, granted to Peter by a divine word and reaffirmed to him (Peter) and his successors by the One Whom Peter confessed, the Lord saying to Peter himself, 'Whatsoever you shall bind on earth, shall be bound also in Heaven' etc., [Mt 16:19]. Therefore whoever resists this power thus ordained by God, resists the ordinance of God [Rom 13:2], unless he invent like Manicheus two beginnings, which is false and judged by us heretical, since according to the testimony of Moses, it is not in the beginnings but in the beginning that God created heaven and earth [Gen 1:1]. Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff. [/SIZE]

Tell usplease JimParker, is the above true? As far as your denial of the murderous past of of the anti-christian church, this is no surprise, there are already many denying the Holocaust. Speaking of the Holocaust and Hitler, concerning your accusations towards those like me being like Nazi's, are you not aware that the Church of Rome was the first political entity to sign an accord with Adolf Hitler and the Nazi's? Seems like your getting things a little backwards here. All good Catholics were told to support and cooperate with Hitler before he became even to big for the church to handle.

http://www.concordatwatch.eu/showtopic.php?org_id=858&kb_header_id=752

Long before Hitler ever put the Jews in ghettos, and made them wear identifying badges, the Church of Rome did the same. As far as your ignorant remarks concerning my hatred of others like a clan member, I have Jewish, German, Italian, Spanish, Irish, British and God only knows what else blood in me. I am a virtual mut. As a Christian, I have no right to hate or abuse anyone.

 

[StanJ]

This looks like subject for another thread, still such rubbish should be addressed. No stealth here, the Pope is and always has been anti-Christ.

Regardless of what the Pope is, in terms of human nature, he is not anti-Christ. The Pope supports what Christ stands for despite the traditions of men that He tries to uphold in the RCC. Their main doctrine is Jesus Christ as our savior. In my lifetime I have NEVER heard a Pope deny Christ as John teaches in 1 John 2:18, 22, 4:3, and 2 John 1:7.
The anti-Christ is an opposer of Christ. Not much different than an anti-RCC.

 

[JimParker]

What a load of crap. As soon as anyone points out ugly truths about the history of Catholicism, they are instantly declared anti-Catholic bigots. Can you please tell which Protestant Pastor has ever made the following claim. All emphasis mine.


Tell usplease JimParker, is the above true? As far as your denial of the murderous past of of the anti-christian church, this is no surprise, there are already many denying the Holocaust. Speaking of the Holocaust and Hitler, concerning your accusations towards those like me being like Nazi's, are you not aware that the Church of Rome was the first political entity to sign an accord with Adolf Hitler and the Nazi's? Seems like your getting things a little backwards here. All good Catholics were told to support and cooperate with Hitler before he became even to big for the church to handle.

http://www.concordatwatch.eu/showtopic.php?org_id=858&kb_header_id=752

Long before Hitler ever put the Jews in ghettos, and made them wear identifying badges, the Church of Rome did the same. As far as your ignorant remarks concerning my hatred of others like a clan member, I have Jewish, German, Italian, Spanish, Irish, British and God only knows what else blood in me. I am a virtual mut. As a Christian, I have no right to hate or abuse anyone.

<<As a Christian,>>

Christian??? Did you say you claim to be a Christian???

Do you imagine yourself to be a wonderful example of love, compassion, patience, kindness, and graciousness on display for all the world to see.

1Jo 3:15 Any one who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

Hey, KEETH!!! That's YOU! John's talking to YOU, ABOUT YOU!

<< I have no right to hate or abuse anyone.>>

So if you have no right to hate of abuse then why oh why are you here you are venting your hatred by spewing your ignorant, hate-filled, bigoted, abusive filth against a pope you don't know?

And that would be TODAY's pope, my alleged "Brother" Keeeth, not some tyrant from the middle ages that you are quoting out of context.

As for a pope signing an accord with Hitler, what was he supposed to do, Keeeth, Threaten Hitler with the vast war machine of the Vatican City?

But, no! NO! HEAVENS NO! YOU'RE not a religious bigot! No you're only the poster child for religious bigotry because you really don't believe the filth that comes out of your mouth. (By the way, Keeeeth, do you kiss your mother with that mouth?)

How wonderful for you to have someone to hate and look down upon. Though, I doubt it makes up for all your feelings of inadequacy and your resentment for whatever you imagine excuses your demonic behavior. Who knows, maybe some day you can go to Rome and personally spit in the Pope's face like your idea of an ideal Protesting, Reforming, Bigot.

And YOU think you represent the best that the Protestant Reformation has to offer???

I certainly hope not.

So if you have no right to hate or abuse anyone then how about this: ... just shut up.

 

[Keeth]

Regardless of what the Pope is, in terms of human nature, he is not anti-Christ. The Pope supports what Christ stands for despite the traditions of men that He tries to uphold in the RCC. Their main doctrine is Jesus Christ as our savior. In my lifetime I have NEVER heard a Pope deny Christ as John teaches in 1 John 2:18, 22, 4:3, and 2 John 1:7.
The anti-Christ is an opposer of Christ. Not much different than an anti-RCC.

Surprise, surprise.

<<As a Christian,>>

Christian??? Did you say you claim to be a Christian???

Do you imagine yourself to be a wonderful example of love, compassion, patience, kindness, and graciousness on display for all the world to see.

1Jo 3:15 Any one who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

Hey, KEETH!!! That's YOU! John's talking to YOU, ABOUT YOU!

<< I have no right to hate or abuse anyone.>>

So if you have no right to hate of abuse then why oh why are you here you are venting your hatred by spewing your ignorant, hate-filled, bigoted, abusive filth against a pope you don't know?

And that would be TODAY's pope, my alleged "Brother" Keeeth, not some tyrant from the middle ages that you are quoting out of context.

As for a pope signing an accord with Hitler, what was he supposed to do, Keeeth, Threaten Hitler with the vast war machine of the Vatican City?

But, no! NO! HEAVENS NO! YOU'RE not a religious bigot! No you're only the poster child for religious bigotry because you really don't believe the filth that comes out of your mouth. (By the way, Keeeeth, do you kiss your mother with that mouth?)

How wonderful for you to have someone to hate and look down upon. Though, I doubt it makes up for all your feelings of inadequacy and your resentment for whatever you imagine excuses your demonic behavior. Who knows, maybe some day you can go to Rome and personally spit in the Pope's face like your idea of an ideal Protesting, Reforming, Bigot.

And YOU think you represent the best that the Protestant Reformation has to offer???

I certainly hope not.

So if you have no right to hate or abuse anyone then how about this: ... just shut up.

You might want to look in the mirror my freind. I stated some facts and beliefs which I would be and am very happy to back up with scripture and historical facts, you are the one who has been hurling non stop insults and degrading titles upon me. Telling someone the truth is not hating them. Our Lord and Savior did it for only three and half years before the religious radicals such as yourself killed him for doing so. I do not hate you simply because I will tell you the truth. You can make excuses for the Vatican if you wish regarding their cooperation with Hitler, but I will not. Are you telling me that Christ would have signed an accord with Hitler? Are not the Pope and the Vatican supposed to be the representatives of Christ here on earth? Yes they are, and they are without excuse on this one and a great deal more throughout history. I could share volumes of that history right here, and it will not mean that I hate anyone for doing so, but to the contrary only wish to share the truth unto salvation. I will not shut up. Say and do what you do, so will I. It's called freedom of speech. I'm sure you would like to remove mine, but I will not allow you to do so. Don't worry, you and yours are working on that one, no doubt you will soon silence many. Nevertheless, tidings from the east will greatly disturb you.

Regardless of what the Pope is, in terms of human nature, he is not anti-Christ. The Pope supports what Christ stands for despite the traditions of men that He tries to uphold in the RCC. Their main doctrine is Jesus Christ as our savior. In my lifetime I have NEVER heard a Pope deny Christ as John teaches in 1 John 2:18, 22, 4:3, and 2 John 1:7.
The anti-Christ is an opposer of Christ. Not much different than an anti-RCC.

The Immaculate Conception denies that Christ came in our fallen human flesh, this is the spirit of anti-christ. We know Jesus Father was not one of us, if His mother was not either, then neither was He.

1 Joh 4:1 ¶ Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2 Joh 1:7 ¶ For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Do a study on the word flesh in the above scriptures. Christ was of the seed of Abraham, and David, sinners like all the rest of us. The Immaculate conception denies this all important truth. Christ became one with us who needed salvation, not another perfect being who needed none.

[SIZE=12pt] Immaculate Conception[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]THE DOCTRINE[/SIZE]​

[SIZE=12pt]In the Constitution Ineffabilis Deus of 8 December, 1854, Pius IX pronounced and defined that the Blessed Virgin Mary [/SIZE]"in the first instance of her conception, by a singular privilege and grace granted by God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Saviour of the human race, was preserved exempt from all stain of original sin."
[SIZE=12pt]"The Blessed Virgin Mary . . ."[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] The subject of this immunity from original sin is the person of Mary at the moment of the creation of her soul and its infusion into her body. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]". . .in the first instance of her conception . . ."[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] The term conception does not mean the active or generative conception by her parents. Her body was formed in the womb of the mother, and the father[/SIZE] had the usual share in its formation. The question does not concern the immaculateness of the generative activity of her parents. Neither does it concern the passive conception absolutely and simply (conceptio seminis carnis, inchoata), which, according to the order of nature, precedes the infusion of the rational soul. The person is truly conceived when the soul is created and infused into the body. Mary was preserved exempt from all stain of original sin at the first moment of her animation, and sanctifying grace was given to her before sin could have taken effect in her soul.
[SIZE=12pt]". . .was preserved exempt from all stain of original sin. . ."[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] The formal active essence of original sin was not removed from her soul, as it is removed from others by baptism; it was excluded, it never was simultaneously with the exclusion of sin. The state of original sanctity, innocence, and justice, as opposed to original sin[/SIZE], was conferred upon her, by which gift every stain and fault, all depraved emotions, passions, and debilities, essentially pertaining in her soul to original sin, were excluded. But she was not made exempt from the temporal penalties of Adam -- from sorrow, bodily infirmities, and death.
[SIZE=12pt]". . .by a singular privilege and grace granted by God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Saviour of the human race."[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] The immunity from original sin was given to Mary by a singular exemption from a universal law through the same merits of Christ, by which other men are cleansed from sin by baptism. Mary needed the redeeming Saviour to obtain this exemption, and to be delivered from the universal necessity and debt (debitum) of being subject to original sin. The person of Mary, in consequence of her origin from Adam, should have been subject to sin, but, being the new Eve who was to be the mother of the new Adam, she was, by the eternal counsel of God and by the merits of Christ[/SIZE], withdrawn from the general law of original sin. Her redemption was the very masterpiece of Christ's redeeming wisdom. He is a greater redeemer who pays the debt that it may not be incurred than he who pays after it has fallen on the debtor.
[SIZE=12pt]Such is the meaning of the term "Immaculate Conception." [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]The Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume VII
Copyright © 1910 [/SIZE]

 

[StanJ]

Surprise, surprise.

The Immaculate Conception denies that Christ came in our fallen human flesh, this is the spirit of anti-christ. We know Jesus Father was not one of us, if His mother was not either, then neither was He.

1 Joh 4:1 ¶ Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2 Joh 1:7 ¶ For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Do a study on the word flesh in the above scriptures. Christ was of the seed of Abraham, and David, sinners like all the rest of us. The Immaculate conception denies this all important truth. Christ became one with us who needed salvation, not another perfect being who needed none.

Hey Keeth... please read 1 Cor 13:11 and guide yourself accordingly.

It doesn't matter what doctrine they teach, it matters who they say is savior. You are a false teaches and Immaculate conception although you don't seem to actually understand it, is also a false teaching. Neither on is anti-Christ.

I suggest you obviously haven't done a study of scripture or you would know that both Mary and Joseph were descended from David, and as such they affirmed the entire law as Jesus was not only legitimate in the eyes of Israel but legitimate in the flesh as well.

I'm pretty sure 2 John 1:7 IS talking about you and your ilk. Christ was NOT a sinner. Heb 4:15

I think it is apparent to all you DON'T know God's word as you claim you do.

 

[Phoneman777]

That the Emperor was the restrainer was an accepted view for a long time. When Rome fell to the German tribes, the Emperor in Constantinople was assumed to be the restrainer. When Constantinople fell, the duty fell to the Tzar (Russian for "Caesar"). After the Tzar was assassinated by atheist communists, the spread their anti-Christian Communist dogma around the world bringing about half its population under their atheist, materialist, rule, in the following 50 years by means of bloody revolutions. It would seem that the early church may have had a good handle on who the restrainer was.

Those who, without Biblical sanction, separated themselves from the Church which Jesus had established in order to "re-form" it according to their own, personal tastes, used a wide range of propaganda to convince their uneducated peasants that there was good reason to do so. That the pope was the anti-Christ was one of the propaganda "talking points" of the so-called "re-formers." Many people who are still in that re-formed tradition hold to the tradition of making a point to go out of their way to insult the bishop of Rome by calling him the anti-Christ. (As you have done in a semi-stealthy manner)

Let's not forget that the ECF expected the Antichrist to arise upon the heels of the fall of the Roman Empire, which narrows the candidates down considerably to "way back then".

Roman Catholicism long ago ceased to be God's church because an organization that claims that it stands in place of Christ and claims that all the names, titles, attributes, and prerogatives of Christ belong to the Pope is anything but a God-sanctioned organization. Though there have always been faithful, Catholic children of God who love Jesus, His true church "fled into the wilderness" as prophecy predicted and there preserved the truth while Roman Catholicism slaughtered countless millions of the faithful who refused to go along with her pagan dogmas.

I don't understand why you are offended when someone refers to the Papal power as "Antichrist" which means "in place of Christ" because that is exactly what the official title of the office of the Papacy is: "Vicarius Filii Dei" which means..."in place of Christ."

<<he Pope is and always has been anti-christ. He asuumes a position and authority which belong to Christ alone.>>

I've heard that! And it's always from some ignorant, Catholic-hating, bigot! (Not you, of course!)

If the pope has assumed "a position and authority which belong to Christ alone" then so has the head of every Protestant denomination and they are all anti-Christs.

<<<<Those who addressed the continuous and murderous abuses of the antichristian church had every right and good reason to do so. The uneducated peasents you speak of were uneducated because the spiritually fornicatious relationship between the kings of the earth and the antichristian system of the papacy would not allow for their education.>>

That is a very good representation of the standard, anti-KATH-lick, hate-filled, rant that I hear/see from the average anti-Catholic, bigot, igmo, who, with regard to theology and history, regularly has difficulty distinguishing between a sphincter and a post hole.

Thank you for that identification of "kinds of people to avoid." Though, people who recite such excremental nonsense often give themselves away by wearing white robes with pointed hoods and also hate Jews, blacks, Mexicans, Italians, Irish, American Indians, and a variety of others. (Though they do seem to keep a warm spot in their hearts for old, German, WWII veterans. Go figure!)

The historically verifiable fact is, of course, that the Catholic church was the primary (often only) source of education during the "dark ages" after the collapse of the Roman Empire.

Your posting of some of the rhetoric of those poor, disillusioned, ignorant, gullible people who have been deceived by the Devil into a religious hatred not unlike that of the members of ISIS, is an excellent warning to us all about what kind of people to pay no attention to and to avoid because their irrational hatred based in pathological paranoia identifies them as people who might be dangerous.

Many thanks.

You've done us all a great service.

You have a FABULOUS DAY!

Father Jim Parker

Why do you continue to defend such an indefensible institution? Do you not realize that as recently as the 1960s, a non-clergy member such as yourself would be SUBJECT TO ANATHEMA for possessing and reading the Bible such as you do today? Do you not realize that it is through a carefully orchestrated campaign that was perfected over the centuries to keep Catholic people Biblically ignorant is how Catholicism has managed to dupe the Catholic faithful into believing that the Pope is "God on earth", yet you accuse Protestants of ignorance? Do you not realize that the very system you so vehemently defend still claims the authority to sell the faithful indulgences (forgiveness), though 500 years ago Luther, with only their corrupted MSS, was still able to prove from them that such a doctrine was nothing more than a worthless doctrine of the devil? You would do well to abandon her and join us Protestants in helping to deliver our Catholic brothers and sisters from this corrupt system into the true church of Christ which is founded on "salvation by grace through faith" alone.

<<As a Christian,>>

Christian??? Did you say you claim to be a Christian???

Do you imagine yourself to be a wonderful example of love, compassion, patience, kindness, and graciousness on display for all the world to see.

1Jo 3:15 Any one who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

Hey, KEETH!!! That's YOU! John's talking to YOU, ABOUT YOU!

<< I have no right to hate or abuse anyone.>>

So if you have no right to hate of abuse then why oh why are you here you are venting your hatred by spewing your ignorant, hate-filled, bigoted, abusive filth against a pope you don't know?

And that would be TODAY's pope, my alleged "Brother" Keeeth, not some tyrant from the middle ages that you are quoting out of context.

As for a pope signing an accord with Hitler, what was he supposed to do, Keeeth, Threaten Hitler with the vast war machine of the Vatican City?

But, no! NO! HEAVENS NO! YOU'RE not a religious bigot! No you're only the poster child for religious bigotry because you really don't believe the filth that comes out of your mouth. (By the way, Keeeeth, do you kiss your mother with that mouth?)

How wonderful for you to have someone to hate and look down upon. Though, I doubt it makes up for all your feelings of inadequacy and your resentment for whatever you imagine excuses your demonic behavior. Who knows, maybe some day you can go to Rome and personally spit in the Pope's face like your idea of an ideal Protesting, Reforming, Bigot.

And YOU think you represent the best that the Protestant Reformation has to offer???

I certainly hope not.

So if you have no right to hate or abuse anyone then how about this: ... just shut up.

Brother Jim, many poor young Catholic boys have abandoned God altogether because of the all too often abuse by priests, but some remain behind to grow up and defend the institution with fierce loyalty. We need to try to reach these poor souls and help them to escape and heal from the horrors inflicted upon them at the hands of those who claim to be "Christ's representatives".

 

[JimParker]

Let's not forget that the ECF expected the Antichrist to arise upon the heels of the fall of the Roman Empire, which narrows the candidates down considerably to "way back then".

Roman Catholicism long ago ceased to be God's church because an organization that claims that it stands in place of Christ and claims that all the names, titles, attributes, and prerogatives of Christ belong to the Pope is anything but a God-sanctioned organization. Though there have always been faithful, Catholic children of God who love Jesus, His true church "fled into the wilderness" as prophecy predicted and there preserved the truth while Roman Catholicism slaughtered countless millions of the faithful who refused to go along with her pagan dogmas.

I don't understand why you are offended when someone refers to the Papal power as "Antichrist" which means "in place of Christ" because that is exactly what the official title of the office of the Papacy is: "Vicarius Filii Dei" which means..."in place of Christ."

Why do you continue to defend such an indefensible institution? Do you not realize that as recently as the 1960s, a non-clergy member such as yourself would be SUBJECT TO ANATHEMA for possessing and reading the Bible such as you do today? Do you not realize that it is through a carefully orchestrated campaign that was perfected over the centuries to keep Catholic people Biblically ignorant is how Catholicism has managed to dupe the Catholic faithful into believing that the Pope is "God on earth", yet you accuse Protestants of ignorance? Do you not realize that the very system you so vehemently defend still claims the authority to sell the faithful indulgences (forgiveness), though 500 years ago Luther, with only their corrupted MSS, was still able to prove from them that such a doctrine was nothing more than a worthless doctrine of the devil? You would do well to abandon her and join us Protestants in helping to deliver our Catholic brothers and sisters from this corrupt system into the true church of Christ which is founded on "salvation by grace through faith" alone.

Brother Jim, many poor young Catholic boys have abandoned God altogether because of the all too often abuse by priests, but some remain behind to grow up and defend the institution with fierce loyalty. We need to try to reach these poor souls and help them to escape and heal from the horrors inflicted upon them at the hands of those who claim to be "Christ's representatives".

get help

 

[ATP]

get help

I see you haven't let up, in your ignorance.

 

[Keeth]

Hey Keeth... please read 1 Cor 13:11 and guide yourself accordingly.

It doesn't matter what doctrine they teach, it matters who they say is savior. You are a false teaches and Immaculate conception although you don't seem to actually understand it, is also a false teaching. Neither on is anti-Christ.

I suggest you obviously haven't done a study of scripture or you would know that both Mary and Joseph were descended from David, and as such they affirmed the entire law as Jesus was not only legitimate in the eyes of Israel but legitimate in the flesh as well.

I'm pretty sure 2 John 1:7 IS talking about you and your ilk. Christ was NOT a sinner. Heb 4:15

I think it is apparent to all you DON'T know God's word as you claim you do.

You think a lot of things, but that will never make them reality. You are ignorant concerning what I beleive, as well as what I was suggesting. Your use of scripture to insult rather than instruct is enlightening. I know Christ never sinned, the scriptures say so, and we would have no salvation if He had. Christ was born of the seed of Abraham and David according to the flesh, not of a sinless woman miraculously kept from all stain of sin by God because she was going to be Christ's mother. this is wholly extra biblical. Christ was tempted in all points as we are yet without sin. He could be tempted in all points as we are, because he was one of us. Again, if neither His mother or Father was one of us, then neither was He.

Ac 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

Ro 1:1 ¶ Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, 2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) 3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

Ro 9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: 4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; 5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

1 Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Heb 2:14 ¶ Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. 17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. 18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

Heb 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

1 Pet 4:1 ¶ Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

1 Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2 Jn 1:7 ¶ For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

There is a reason Jesus referred to HImself as the Son of man many times. The humanity of Christ is essential to our salvation. He became one with fallen humanity that He might save the same, not sinless humanity which of course would have no need of salvation.

 

[StanJ]

You think a lot of things, but that will never make them reality. You are ignorant concerning what I beleive, as well as what I was suggesting. Your use of scripture to insult rather than instruct is enlightening. I know Christ never sinned, the scriptures say so, and we would have no salvation if He had. Christ was born of the seed of Abraham and David according to the flesh, not of a sinless woman miraculously kept from all stain of sin by God because she was going to be Christ's mother. this is wholly extra biblical. Christ was tempted in all points as we are yet without sin. He could be tempted in all points as we are, because he was one of us. Again, if neither His mother or Father was one of us, then neither was He.


There is a reason Jesus referred to HImself as the Son of man many times. The humanity of Christ is essential to our salvation. He became one with fallen humanity that He might save the same, not sinless humanity which of course would have no need of salvation.

Only in YOUR world Keeth. I am indeed ignorant of what you believe because you keep moving the goal posts and equivocating. I have no idea why you keep going on about this Immaculate MIS-conception, as I've already stated it is fallacious doctrine? His actual biological father was the Holy Spirit and His biological mother was Mary....it's called a hypostatic union. Maybe you should look it up?

The humanity of Jesus Christ is of course part of God's plan of salvation but I have no idea, again, what point you are trying to make here?

If you're having problems with my vocabulary or vernacular, let me know and I'll try to dumb it down for you.

 

[KingJ]

Let's not forget that the ECF expected the Antichrist to arise upon the heels of the fall of the Roman Empire, which narrows the candidates down considerably to "way back then".

1. Roman Catholicism long ago ceased to be God's church because an organization that claims that it stands in place of Christ and claims that all the names, titles, attributes, and prerogatives of Christ belong to the Pope is anything but a God-sanctioned organization. Though there have always been faithful, Catholic children of God who love Jesus, His true church "fled into the wilderness" as prophecy predicted and there preserved the truth while Roman Catholicism slaughtered countless millions of the faithful who refused to go along with her pagan dogmas.

2. I don't understand why you are offended when someone refers to the Papal power as "Antichrist" which means "in place of Christ" because that is exactly what the official title of the office of the Papacy is: "Vicarius Filii Dei" which means..."in place of Christ."

3. Why do you continue to defend such an indefensible institution? Do you not realize that as recently as the 1960s, a non-clergy member such as yourself would be SUBJECT TO ANATHEMA for possessing and reading the Bible such as you do today? Do you not realize that it is through a carefully orchestrated campaign that was perfected over the centuries to keep Catholic people Biblically ignorant is how Catholicism has managed to dupe the Catholic faithful into believing that the Pope is "God on earth", yet you accuse Protestants of ignorance? Do you not realize that the very system you so vehemently defend still claims the authority to sell the faithful indulgences (forgiveness), though 500 years ago Luther, with only their corrupted MSS, was still able to prove from them that such a doctrine was nothing more than a worthless doctrine of the devil? You would do well to abandon her and join us Protestants in helping to deliver our Catholic brothers and sisters from this corrupt system into the true church of Christ which is founded on "salvation by grace through faith" alone.

4. Brother Jim, many poor young Catholic boys have abandoned God altogether because of the all too often abuse by priests, but some remain behind to grow up and defend the institution with fierce loyalty. We need to try to reach these poor souls and help them to escape and heal from the horrors inflicted upon them at the hands of those who claim to be "Christ's representatives".

1. So they stopped teaching about Jesus and the need to obey His commandments?

2. It is because ''in place of'' is interpreted as ''in opposition too'' or ''over riding''. The pope is simply seen as the continuation of Peter's post.

3. What faith alone? What faith do you have that Catholics don't?

4. A person who gave up wealth and family to serve God is evil? Intentions could not be better. That many sinned greatly is a separate issue.

 

[Phoneman777]

1. So they stopped teaching about Jesus and the need to obey His commandments?

2. It is because ''in place of'' is interpreted as ''in opposition too'' or ''over riding''. The pope is simply seen as the continuation of Peter's post.

3. What faith alone? What faith do you have that Catholics don't?

4. A person who gave up wealth and family to serve God is evil? Intentions could not be better. That many sinned greatly is a separate issue.

1. Yes, they ceased to teach the Jesus of Scripture long ago and adopted an extra-Biblical Jesus. For instance, didja ever hear of the doctrine of the "Immaculate Conception"? Not Jesus' conception, but MARY'S CONCEPTION. Mary was "preserved from all stain of original sin", meaning that it was not so that "He, Himself, also, likewise took part of the same flesh", and having taken part of different flesh (through Mary's supposed "perfect flesh"), He is unapproachable by us who are supposed to be not preserved from the stain of original sin, and therefore this illogical logic paves the way for the Roman Catholic church's most infamous, abominable doctrines of all - "Just as no man cometh to the Father except through the Son, no man cometh to the Son except through Mary." This Jesus that they teach is not the Jesus of Scripture.

2. The word Antichrist means "in place of / in behalf of / instead of / for" Christ. Any institution which claims to be such invariably places itself "in opposition to" Christ - which is exactly what the office of the Papacy claims to be.

3. "One Lord, one faith, one baptism." The Roman Catholic hierarchy teaches the Catholic faithful that it is through the mediation of the Bishop of Rome, priests, the sacraments, etc. that salvation is obtained. Is that the "one faith" that the Bible speaks of?

4. "Poor" in the sense of "pitiful", not a lack of wealth. Catholic priests have physically traumatized countless young boys and mentally traumatized millions upon millions with their faith destroying doctrines, and that is why the best Protestants are always former Catholics who managed to escape that system, while most born and raised Protestants are falling all over themselves to defend that same system that used to slaughter by the multiplied millions anyone who proclaimed "the Bible and the Bible alone".

 

[Phoneman777]

get help

Don't need it. I've never been victimized by a Catholic priest.

 

[brakelite]

Only in YOUR world Keeth. I am indeed ignorant of what you believe because you keep moving the goal posts and equivocating. I have no idea why you keep going on about this Immaculate MIS-conception, as I've already stated it is fallacious doctrine? His actual biological father was the Holy Spirit and His biological mother was Mary....it's called a hypostatic union. Maybe you should look it up?

The humanity of Jesus Christ is of course part of God's plan of salvation but I have no idea, again, what point you are trying to make here?

If you're having problems with my vocabulary or vernacular, let me know and I'll try to dumb it down for you.

Stan, if you fully understood Rome's doctrine of the 'immaculate conception,' and compared it with scripture appreciating the implications of that doctrine and how it impacts on the nature of Christ, then you would understand the significance of what Keeth is saying when he speaks of the text of John and the denial of Jesus Christ. Despite your protestations to the contrary, Keeth does know what he is talking about.

get help

This perfectly sums up your attitude. While vilifying others' contributions without any meaningful and intelligent rebuttal or contribution of your own, you demonstrate a total lack of Christlikeness but rather a penchant for abuse and denigration. I suggest a return to seminary for it seems you missed the class that discussed the meaning of
Luke 6:45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

I see you call yourself father Jim. I take it then you may be a priest? I remember when I first became a Christian nearly 40 years ago now. After discovering the reality of Christ and experiencing Him personally for the first time, I returned to the only church I knew, the one that educated, and raised me spiritually, the RCC. With great joy I went to mass one Sunday morning and afterward as was the custom, greeted the celebrant at the door on leaving. My excitement of having received Christ into my life and having been born again in a most decidedly radical way, compelled me to proclaim my new found faith to the priest as I shook his hand. The look that came over him I will never forget. The distaste, the disgust, the confusion...a sourness like he had just swallowed a pint of unsweetened concentrated lemon juice ...he really had no idea what I was talking about, but what he did know was it was not catholic. The next Sunday with a different priest and at a different time brought me realization that though very religious, the only church I knew had little or nothing in common with the living Christ I had just met a couple of weeks previously. I did not return.I suspect the same mind as the aforementioned clergyman may be yours. I recommend, nay charge you in the name of Jesus, that you get to know Him on a personal basis Then come back and discuss the merits or otherwise of these important issues. I presume you realize the magnitude of the issue at hand. The true identity of the antichrist is a life and death matter. It is a subject that demands an open and honest conversation. Not the vituperative comments that have thus far comprised the bulk of your arguments.
For those who would indulge in thinking that perhaps Islam or some other religion or religious leader is the Antichrist, I would remind them again that the word 'antichrist' means 'in place of' or 'instead of' Christ. Thus the religion of the antichrist is a forgery of the real religion of the real Christ. It is a counterfeit. Now it is vitally important that we all recognize that
counterfeits are copies of the truth. You do not get counterfeit $99 notes. The counterfeit religion, the counterfeit god, the counterfeit worship of the last days through Babylon the Great, is a quasi Christian form of worship, a quasi Christian God, a counterfeit Christian form of church. That my friends is what makes it so dangerous, so deceptive.
It is imperative that we must understand the original before we can identify the false. That is what counterfeit experts do. They are so familiar with the real, that the false becomes obvious. We also must become absolutely familiar with the real Christ, we must worship Him in Spirit and in truth, then, and only then, can we hope to recognize the dangers that the Antichrist possesses.
But it must be remembered and recognized that the apostolic church was an organized church. It was not an ad hoc ensemble of individual congregations all doing their own thing. Even the apostle Paul went to Jerusalem to confer with the church leaders, the apostles, to confirm whether he was in fact preaching the true gospel. And as the church grew, particularly in later centuries in Britain and the far East, church leaders were appointed to encourage, teach, lead and guide the church in missions and church life. These churches flourished and grew from strength to strength, and made massive miraculous and life changing inroads into the incumbent ruling paganism of those days, in countries from as far afield as Ireland to Arabia, and from Ethiopia to Scandinavia, from India to China. And all within 2 to 3 hundred years from the time of Christ. These churches must never be confused with the church / state union that emanated from Rome in the 6th century and became the bitterest enemy of Christ’s church for over a 1000 years.