12 reasons why hell is not eternal conscious torment

[StanJ]

So are you going to enlighten us, or is this just priveleged information for the priveleged themselves and poeple of superior intellect, such as yourself?

Most on this thread have been Keeth, and I have no ability to enlighten those who CANNOT or WILLNOT hear, despite your facetiousness.

 

[Butch5]

The topic of hell, etc. has been discussed on this board many a time, and the discussions always seem to go the way this one has.

The really good ones have been where people start saying, "But in ancient Greek the meaning is actually..." or "In the Latin, it actually translates into..."

Or when someone mentions Matt. 25:41 "“Then shall He say also unto them on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels" and someone claims that only the first is eternal and the lives/souls of the sinners are not so they are quickly burned into nothing and/or it will only be the devil and his angels that will be there for all eternity.

The there are those that claim that they will suffer in 'a hell-like environment' until they have 'paid the price' and then are welcomed into heaven (ignoring the scripture that people are appointed to die once and then be judged).

I would take a step back and first ask why Jesus spoke so frequently and prominently of the dangers of hell. Is it because people "don't know what they are missing" and that they will be destroyed quickly and be without God and from then on be nothing and they are missing out?

That makes no sense.

I think the reason they break down is because of Pride

 

[StanJ]

I think the reason they break down is because of Pride

Probably the ONLY point in this issue we can agree on Butch.

 

[Caffus]

Check out this Biblical site..it's very extensive, informative and awesome! We have an amazing God!
<ahref=http://www.mercifultruth.com">www.mercifultruth.com</a>

 

[Phoneman777]

The topic of hell, etc. has been discussed on this board many a time, and the discussions always seem to go the way this one has.

The really good ones have been where people start saying, "But in ancient Greek the meaning is actually..." or "In the Latin, it actually translates into..."

Or when someone mentions Matt. 25:41 "“Then shall He say also unto them on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels" and someone claims that only the first is eternal and the lives/souls of the sinners are not so they are quickly burned into nothing and/or it will only be the devil and his angels that will be there for all eternity.

The there are those that claim that they will suffer in 'a hell-like environment' until they have 'paid the price' and then are welcomed into heaven (ignoring the scripture that people are appointed to die once and then be judged).

I would take a step back and first ask why Jesus spoke so frequently and prominently of the dangers of hell. Is it because people "don't know what they are missing" and that they will be destroyed quickly and be without God and from then on be nothing and they are missing out?

That makes no sense.

If the wages of sin = eternal torment, the only way Jesus could take our place and take our penalty upon Himself so that we may go free is that He be eternally tormented in our place. Therefore, the wages of sin IS NOT eternal torment, but death, just as the Bible says it is.

 

[newbirth]

I disagree, hell IS ETERNAL, Jesus himself said so in Matt 18:8,

And if your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life crippled or lame than with two hands
or two feet to be thrown into the eternal fire.

And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Matt 25:46

Now in John 5:24 (below) as in Matt 25:46 (above), the Holy Spirit uses the same Greek word when speaking of "eternal", when describing the length of
time - not that eternity can be measured - one would spend in both heaven and hell.

Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed
from death to life.

So am I now to believe that He meant two different things when speaking of eternal, forever with one and a set time for the other ?
Of course not, eternal is eternal because that's what eternal means ... forever.

The real question is this ... should I believe Jesus or should I believe you ?

very good point ...and it shows the difference between our understanding of death and Jesus understanding of death....


Matthew 8:21-22King James Version (KJV)
21 And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.
22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

 

[newbirth]

If the wages of sin = eternal torment, the only way Jesus could take our place and take our penalty upon Himself so that we may go free is that He be eternally tormented in our place. Therefore, the wages of sin IS NOT eternal torment, but death, just as the Bible says it is.

How so?? No sin was found in Him so why should he be eternally tormented??? He was without sin, wrongfully accused and executed....death and hell could not keep him...it is on that basis by faith we receive his blood that we be cleansed from sin and enter into life...

 

[newbirth]

<<Protestants from the time of Luther until this day have seen clearly that when the Caesars vacated the throne in Rome, the Antichrist was finally able to arise in the very place that was previously occupied by them.>>

Sure. The pope's the anti-Christ, blah...blah....blah....blah.

Pure crap.

the antichrist is a doctrine more than it is a man....
1 John 2:22
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

the majority of denominations have rejected the teachings of the Father and the Son and replaced it with the trinity...

 

[JimParker]

the antichrist is a doctrine more than it is a man....
1 John 2:22
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

the majority of denominations have rejected the teachings of the Father and the Son and replaced it with the trinity...

There was never a time in the church when the essence of Trinity was not taught. The Father has always been taught as being God. The Son has always been taught as being God. The Holy Spirit has always been taught as being God.

Beginning in the 4th century, the church specifically defined the trinity in response to various heresies, based in Neo-Platonism, which attempted to define the Son and the Holy Spirit as less than equal to God or as separate from the Godhead. The definition of the Trinity is derived from what the church had taught everywhere and at all times up until that point.

The Trinity is not a 'replacement." It is the original teaching of the church.

 

[newbirth]

There was never a time in the church when the essence of Trinity was not taught. The Father has always been taught as being God. The Son has always been taught as being God. The Holy Spirit has always been taught as being God.

Beginning in the 4th century, the church specifically defined the trinity in response to various heresies, based in Neo-Platonism, which attempted to define the Son and the Holy Spirit as less than equal to God or as separate from the Godhead. The definition of the Trinity is derived from what the church had taught everywhere and at all times up until that point.

The Trinity is not a 'replacement." It is the original teaching of the church.

1 Corinthians 8:6
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

this is the teaching of the apostle Paul...where is the trinity in there???

what does vs 24 tell you ??? continue in the Son and in the Father or continue in the trinity??? and if you deny the Father and the Son you are antichrist...


1 John 2:22-24King James Version (KJV)
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

 

[JimParker]

1 Corinthians 8:6
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

this is the teaching of the apostle Paul...where is the trinity in there???

what does vs 24 tell you ??? continue in the Son and in the Father or continue in the trinity??? and if you deny the Father and the Son you are antichrist...
1 John 2:22-24King James Version (KJV)
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

<<1 Corinthians 8:6>>

Your error is that you are basing your conclusion on a verse or two instead of the entire revelation of scripture.

Is the Holy Spirit God or not?

 

[newbirth]

<<1 Corinthians 8:6>>

Your error is that you are basing your conclusion on a verse or two instead of the entire revelation of scripture.

Is the Holy Spirit God or not?

your error is you do not believe the writer knows what he is saying so you have to come to your own conclusion...Paul is consistent in all his writings...He includes Grace and Peace from "God the Father and his Son Jesus Christ our Lord"in the beginning of all his epistles....the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God and thus not another person or entity

 

[JimParker]

your error is you do not believe the writer knows what he is saying so you have to come to your own conclusion...Paul is consistent in all his writings...He includes Grace and Peace from "God the Father and his Son Jesus Christ our Lord"in the beginning of all his epistles....the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God and thus not another person or entity

<<your error is you do not believe the writer knows what he is saying >>

I totally trust that Paul knew exactly what he was saying.

You didn't answer my question.

Is the Holy Spirit God?

Your options are "Yes" and "No."

 

[newbirth]

<<your error is you do not believe the writer knows what he is saying >>

I totally trust that Paul knew exactly what he was saying.

You didn't answer my question.

Is the Holy Spirit God?

Your options are "Yes" and "No."

if you ask me a question and give me the answer ...then it is you that answered the question....The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God ...therefore the Holy Spirit is God....NOT a person in a trinity...

 

[JimParker]

if you ask me a question and give me the answer ...then it is you that answered the question....The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God ...therefore the Holy Spirit is God....NOT a person in a trinity...

Cute.

You refuse to answer the question.

The Church has believed that the Holy Spirit is one of the persons (hypostases) of the Trinity from the beginning. It has been later heresies and modern churches with alleged "new light" which have attempted to reduce the Holy Spirit to something less than God.

 

[newbirth]

Cute.

You refuse to answer the question.

The Church has believed that the Holy Spirit is one of the persons (hypostases) of the Trinity from the beginning. It has been later heresies and modern churches with alleged "new light" which have attempted to reduce the Holy Spirit to something less than God.

I refuse to answer the question the way you want it to be answered....but I did answer...no one is reducing the Holy Spirit....but clearly you are invoking a trinity...you are saying the Holy Spirit is God...and that God is part of a trinity...scripture is clear there is but one God the Father...and God is ONE

 

[JimParker]

I refuse to answer the question the way you want it to be answered....but I did answer...no one is reducing the Holy Spirit....but clearly you are invoking a trinity...you are saying the Holy Spirit is God...and that God is part of a trinity...scripture is clear there is but one God the Father...and God is ONE

So you are United Pentecostal?

 

[JimParker]

I refuse to answer the question the way you want it to be answered....but I did answer...no one is reducing the Holy Spirit....but clearly you are invoking a trinity...you are saying the Holy Spirit is God...and that God is part of a trinity...scripture is clear there is but one God the Father...and God is ONE

Ah! I must have ID'd your Church and you've run away.

No need. I'm sure God is much less impressed with our theology than we are.

 

[newbirth]

So you are United Pentecostal?

whatever that is

 

[newbirth]

Ah! I must have ID'd your Church and you've run away.

No need. I'm sure God is much less impressed with our theology than we are.

see it's church you are playing...God knows only one church ...that is the body of Christ...