12 reasons why hell is not eternal conscious torment

[Butch5]

There was never a time in the church when the essence of Trinity was not taught. The Father has always been taught as being God. The Son has always been taught as being God. The Holy Spirit has always been taught as being God.

Beginning in the 4th century, the church specifically defined the trinity in response to various heresies, based in Neo-Platonism, which attempted to define the Son and the Holy Spirit as less than equal to God or as separate from the Godhead. The definition of the Trinity is derived from what the church had taught everywhere and at all times up until that point.

The Trinity is not a 'replacement." It is the original teaching of the church.

What is that definition of the Trinity?

 

[JimParker]

What is that definition of the Trinity?

I believe in one God, the Father almighty, Maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible and in one Lord Jesus Christ, the son of God, the only begotten,. Begotten of the Father before all worlds, Light of Light, Very God of Very God, begotten not made, of one essence with the Father through whom all things were made. And I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life Who proceeds from the Father, Who with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified, who spoke through the prophets.

 

[Butch5]

I believe in one God, the Father almighty, Maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible and in one Lord Jesus Christ, the son of God, the only begotten,. Begotten of the Father before all worlds, Light of Light, Very God of Very God, begotten not made, of one essence with the Father through whom all things were made. And I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life Who proceeds from the Father, Who with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified, who spoke through the prophets.

Then what are you guys arguing over?

 

[ATP]

Then what are you guys arguing over?

air.

 

[newbirth]

I believe in one God, the Father almighty, Maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible and in one Lord Jesus Christ, the son of God, the only begotten,. Begotten of the Father before all worlds, Light of Light, Very God of Very God, begotten not made, of one essence with the Father through whom all things were made. And I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life Who proceeds from the Father, Who with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified, who spoke through the prophets.

I have never seen that in scripture...you believe in one Lord Jesus Christ and you believe in another Lord the Holy Spirit...you believe in two Lords...

 

[KingJ]

air.

lol!!! and lol at the course of this thread.

 

[KingJ]

I have never seen that in scripture...you believe in one Lord Jesus Christ and you believe in another Lord the Holy Spirit...you believe in two Lords...

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

You don't believe He is an individual because He does not speak of Himself. A forgiveable mistake.

 

[StanJ]

whatever that is

I seriously DOUBT that you don't know who the UPC is. Sadly many people like you come on sites like this and hide who their affiliation is because it does tell a big part of their story, which seems to be something they want to hide? In fact at only 30 posts, it didn't really take long for your true colours to be revealed.

 

[newbirth]

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

You don't believe He is an individual because He does not speak of Himself. A forgiveable mistake.

so who is he speaking of ???...the spirit of truth is not speaking of himself,,,,tell us who he is speaking of...

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

The scripture is telling you something ...but you don't want to hear .....you have accepted the trinity and as such you now reject what the spirit is saying to you...

 

[Butch5]

air.

lol

 

[newbirth]

I seriously DOUBT that you don't know who the UPC is. Sadly many people like you come on sites like this and hide who their affiliation is because it does tell a big part of their story, which seems to be something they want to hide? In fact at only 30 posts, it didn't really take long for your true colours to be revealed.

well now you are telling me what I know and what I want to hide........and what my true colours are....and this has something to do with the OP???.....is anyone edified with this information??? so you stray from the scripture ...you derail the thread in an effort to highlight this important information concerning me...evaluate your input line them up with scripture and see your own colours ....

 

[StanJ]

well now you are telling me what I know and what I want to hide........and what my true colours are....and this has something to do with the OP???.....is anyone edified with this information??? so you stray from the scripture ...you derail the thread in an effort to highlight this important information concerning me...evaluate your input line them up with scripture and see your own colours ....

and of course now you add self righteousness to the mix. You did have me fooled for a while there.

 

[KingJ]

so who is he speaking of ???...the spirit of truth is not speaking of himself,,,,tell us who he is speaking of...

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

The scripture is telling you something ...but you don't want to hear .....you have accepted the trinity and as such you now reject what the spirit is saying to you...

It is confusing to understand the Holy Spirit as a separate being. I agree with you there. It is much easier to just think of Him as God's spirit and Jesus as God in flesh. The trinity is very confusing for us. That however does not make it false. Our brain is the limiting factor on much spiritual truth. Do you know where God comes from? Why is Jesus = God easy to grasp when Jesus prayed to God?

It is not an issue if you believe one is three or three are one. Believing one is two and two are one is just as confusing. It is no train smash as the Holy Spirit does not speak of Himself.

The only real heresy on the trinity is to say Jesus is not God or the Holy Spirit is not God. Free agents = heresy.

 

[Butch5]

It is confusing to understand the Holy Spirit as a separate being. I agree with you there. It is much easier to just think of Him as God's spirit and Jesus as God in flesh. The trinity is very confusing for us. That however does not make it false. Our brain is the limiting factor on much spiritual truth. Do you know where God comes from? Why is Jesus = God easy to grasp when Jesus prayed to God?

It is not an issue if you believe one is three or three are one. Believing one is two and two are one is just as confusing. It is no train smash as the Holy Spirit does not speak of Himself.

The only real heresy on the trinity is to say Jesus is not God or the Holy Spirit is not God. Free agents = heresy.

The Trinity isn't that hard to understand if people will stop trying to force illogical concepts on it.

 

[newbirth]

It is confusing to understand the Holy Spirit as a separate being. I agree with you there. It is much easier to just think of Him as God's spirit and Jesus as God in flesh. The trinity is very confusing for us. That however does not make it false. Our brain is the limiting factor on much spiritual truth. Do you know where God comes from? Why is Jesus = God easy to grasp when Jesus prayed to God?

It is not an issue if you believe one is three or three are one. Believing one is two and two are one is just as confusing. It is no train smash as the Holy Spirit does not speak of Himself.

The only real heresy on the trinity is to say Jesus is not God or the Holy Spirit is not God. Free agents = heresy.

God is not the author of confusion...the trinity is confusing(your words)...understanding the Holy Spirit is not confusing....saying the Holy Spirit is a separate being is confusing...if the HS is separate from the Father...then the Father has a separate Spirit...But the Father is Spirit...so you are saying the Father is a Spirit who has a separate Spirit and Jesus who is now in Spirit is the third Spirit...you guys are crazy.....

 

[newbirth]

The Trinity isn't that hard to understand if people will stop trying to force illogical concepts on it.

the trinity by itself is an illogical concept...formed by twisting scripture...

 

[ATP]

the trinity by itself is an illogical concept...formed by twisting scripture...

The trinity is truth newbirth, three persons inside one God. Why would you say it's illogical.

 

[StanJ]

the trinity by itself is an illogical concept...formed by twisting scripture...

and yes you refute none of it and don't provide any to support your false teaching?

 

[newbirth]

to formulate the trinity one has to jump all over the scriptures fitting pieces of scripture to come up with a doctrine...no one epistle ascribe to God as three...one in three...or three in one....there is one God the Father.....and God is one....clearly written in scripture...you are advocating trinity that is not written in scripture....we are not to make doctrine from scripture ...we are to use scripture for doctrine

 

[newbirth]

The trinity is truth newbirth, three persons inside one God. Why would you say it's illogical.

kindly quote that from scripture....