12 reasons why hell is not eternal conscious torment
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so which one is false...show us the scripture that says God is three or a trinity or one in three or three in one...StanJ said:
I teach there is one God....
1 Corinthians 8:6
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
I teach God is one ...
Mark 12:29
And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
Galatians 3:20
Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
I teach Jesus and the Father are one...
John 10:30
I and my Father are one.
I need to know what you believe first. What do you believe if the Holy trinity is false. What is the alternative.newbirth said:
scripture is not about what you or I think...scripture is about what is written...if it is not written in scripture we should at least have a corresponding word or phrase giving the same exact meaning...one will find a corresponding phrase for ...omnipotent ,omniscience and omnipresent...but one cannot find a corresponding word or phrase for... trinity ...or three in one .... one in three...God the Son or God the SpiritButch5 said:
I believe the scripture ... you need to know that the scripture says and believe the scripture...faith comes by hearing the word of God...I am not here to promote any denomination...the alternative is the truth...ATP said:
Galatians 3:20
Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
1 Corinthians 8:6
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
John 10:30
I and my Father are one.
What are your thoughts on Jesus and the Holy Spirit being deity of the Father. For example, Jesus is not the Father rather Jesus is deity of the Father.newbirth said:
I agree. That's why I said the modern or Anthanasian Creed understanding of the Trinity is illogical. However, I don't believe that the original teaching is. The original teaching on the Trinity agrees with Paul, 'to us there is one God the Father.' The original teaching is not, three are one or one are three. It says that Jesus is God in the sense of substance or essence. Jesus said that He came out of God. Would you agree that whatever God begets is of the same substance or essence as God (the Father)? It is in this sense that Jesus is God, not that He is somehow the Father. It's like a human father and son. The father's offspring is just as human as the father. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God. If the Spirit has His origin in God then it would seem that He too is of the substance or essence of the Father. It is in this sense that they are called God. It doesn't mean they are equal with God the Father. So, I agree there is one God, the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ. When we speak of authority we speak of God the Father. I submit that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are of the same essence or substance as the Father and are therefore called God.newbirth said:
Yes, and the Body of Christ is one, so how many Christians are part of the Body of Christ?newbirth said:
Jesus said: I and the Father are one. (that's two in one)
2 Peter 1:1
Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:
[SIZE=10pt]Col 1:9-10[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority. [/SIZE]
Titus 1:4
To Titus, my true son in our common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior.
[SIZE=10pt]Titus 2:13[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Is 9:6[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt] Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Is 43:11-12[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]I, yes I, am the LORD, and apart from me there is no savior. I’ve revealed and saved and proclaimed, when there as no foreign god among you — and you are my witnesses,” declares the LORD.[/SIZE]
Your lack of understanding the vernacular of scripture, does not negate the truth therein.
Much / all of our understanding of God seems illogical. A God with NO beginning. A God with 100% omniscience. A God with 100% omnipotence.newbirth said:
Now you are claiming scripture is wrong because God is illogical? You agree with God being able to be two, but three is a problem? You purposely ignore the third person wording of the scripture I gave you?
and since they are the same they cannot be separate and distinct as individual entities...Just as you are one person with a mind that create thoughts....your mind is not a separate person or entity....you have a body with hands legs and eyes...you create what you conceive in your mind with the use of your body (eyes hands and legs) but your body is not a separate entity or person from your mind....when you think it is Butch5 thinking (you don't say my mind is thinking)....when you touch it is Butch5 touching (you don't say my hand touched)....when you walk it is Butch5 walking....(you don't say it is my legs walking)Butch5 said:
Christian believers are adopted into the fellowship and can be cut of...Christ is not adopted but is one with the Father...StanJ said:
where did I make such a claim???........Scripture says...God is one...where did I say or agree God is two...If I did I was wrong....because scripture does not say God is two....KingJ said:
But you're comparing God to human. That wouldn't be very logical. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three different names. So how can they be the same person. When Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead He didn't pray to himself, he prayed to the Father. John 14:6 is not saying "no one comes to me except through me". That would be silly.newbirth said:
That doesn't address THE issue. One does not mean one numerically, it means one in power and purpose.newbirth said:
I agree, I don't think you are understanding me. I am one person, I am human. If I have son he too is human. He is a separate entity, but still human. God is, for lack of a better phrase, God substance. If God has a Son His Son is also God substance. If the Holy Spirit proceeds from God, He too is God substance, wouldn't you agree? It is in this way that I am saying the original Trinity doctrine explained the Trinity. God the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are God substance. The original doctrine did not see the Trinity as three in one or one consisting of three, that idea came about around the time of Augustine with the Anthanasian creed.newbirth said:
The Greek word "theos" means deity, If the Father is Deity wouldn't His Son be deity also? Wouldn't the Spirit that proceeds from God be deity also? That's what the Scriptures are saying, that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are deity. That idea about three persons equal one being or one being consists of three persons is nothing more than the musings of men. It can be seen in the fifth century in the Catholic church. They went on to claim that anyone who wanted to be saved had to believe the contradiction they created. However, none of the early writers said that.
When we say "Jesus is God", what we are believing is that he is God deity. The word deity is important like Butch said.
well the Spirit of Truth is another name The Holy one of Israel is another Emmanuel another Jehovah another Father of lights yet another......I suppose by your understanding they are all different persons...ATP said:
Emmanuel is a name for Jesus, Jehovah and Father of lights is a name for the Father. The Father is not the Son.newbirth said:
then you do not believe ...Butch5 said:
Hebrews 10:5
Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
who is in that body...??? or....
2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
what one has to consider is ...are there three kingdoms??? are there two kingdoms ???or is there one kingdom???
1 Corinthians 15:50
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
Ephesians 5:5
For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
from these scriptures we know (1) it is a spiritual kingdom...(2) it is the kingdom of Christ and of God....so we can safely conclude it is one kingdom...
1 Corinthians 15:25-28King James Version (KJV)
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
but the Father is in the Son and your reasoning of three names = three persons does not stand since you prove one person can have many namesATP said:
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