Marcus O'Reillius
Active Member
TRUE!ATP said:You believe christians can lose their salvation and be thrown into the lake of fire. FAALLSE.
That's what the Bible says happens IF YOU WORSHIP THE ABOMINATION OR TAKE THE MARK OF THE BEAST.
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TRUE!ATP said:You believe christians can lose their salvation and be thrown into the lake of fire. FAALLSE.
..IS NOT referring to believers. Otherwise God is a liar. Are you calling God a liar? Do you believe Marcus?Marcus O'Reillius said:TRUE!
That's what the Bible says happens IF YOU WORSHIP THE ABOMINATION OR TAKE THE MARK OF THE BEAST.
Non-osas is deception bro. You will not enter heaven based on good deeds. The blood of Jesus is your only hope. Good night.Marcus O'Reillius said:OSAS fails when it falls on the tip of Rev 14:9-11.
Some people just don't like anything more difficult than a warm glass of milk. Good night ATP.
I really hate to shake your apple cart ATP, but YOU - if you take the mark of the beast, or worship the talking image of the anti-Christ - you're going to Hell.ATP said:..IS NOT referring to believers. Otherwise God is a liar. Are you calling God a liar? Do you believe Marcus?
You have little understanding of what James said about works and faith.ATP said:You will not enter heaven based on good deeds.
I really don't like this game you're playing here. You are saying I am calling God a liar and that I don't believe. That's offensive.ATP said:..IS NOT referring to believers. Otherwise God is a liar. Are you calling God a liar? Do you believe Marcus?
Best wishes on your journey. - ATPMarcus O'Reillius said:I really don't like this game you're playing here. You are saying I am calling God a liar and that I don't believe. That's offensive.
Who is calling God a liar? Well let me put it to you this way:
If you take the mark of the beast, saying to yourself that you have Jesus in your heart, and banking on ALL the verses you've trotted out - then you're saying that God lied when He said that anyone who takes the mark of the beast will go to Hell.
That kind of hurts doesn't it?
So I won't say you make God out to be a liar; that's offensive. I think you're taking a very simple view which can't comprehend a simple complication. There is a clause that invalidates every OSAS verse out there - Rev 14:9-11. What that verse does is prove that whatever faith that so-called Christian had was not true faith because it did not continue under adversity. And so when faced with a life-threatening situation, they give up their faith to save their life. Jesus had something to say about that too... and it's not good for the OSAS believer.
So I don't know if you're going to figure out the seeming dichotomy between the faith verses and this warning verse to the Church - but it matters not.
What does matter is how we treat each other. And I won't call you a liar or question your faith. I will warn you not to delude yourself about the need to continue in faith and to show that faith in works so that you are fruitful.
Hi ATP,ATP said:2 Thess 2:3 World English Bible
Let no one deceive you in any way. For it will not be, unless the departure comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of destruction,
Having seen how the popular understanding of the phrase "falling away" creates a problem for the posttribulational interpretation of 2Thess 2, let's get to what we believe is the simple solution.
Though one would never know it to read most Bibles today, the Greek noun apostasia, translated "falling away" in this passage, has an alternate translation: it can also be translated "departure", "departing", or "disappearance". This is significant because this particular translation, according to scholars, denotes the removal of something, as in the physical or spatial sense. Could it be that the Greek word, apostasia, rather than denoting a spiritual falling away or rebellion is actually referring to the removal of God's people at the Rapture?
The interesting thing is that "departure" used to be the predominant translation of the Greek, apostasia; it was found in virtually every early version of the English Bible. Even the Latin Vulgate from around 400 AD translates apostasia to discessio, meaning "departure". So the "departure/removal" translation is by no means a stretch or an anomaly -- it used to be the norm. For whatever reason -- no good one has ever been given -- the translators of the King James Version (published in 1611) decided to render apostasia, "falling away". Subsequently, most English versions followed suit.
From the book: The Coming Days of Awe by T.W. Tramm
Sinners are taken away by what?amani said:Who is taken away (first)?
Is it the elect?
No. The sinners are taken away first.
"For as were the days of Noah ..... they were eating and drinking and marrying and giving in marriage ..... they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away ..... two men will be in the field, one will be taken and one left , two woman will be grinding at the mill, one will be taken, and one left".
The flood took the sinners away.
Last? But if Christians are still being martyred Rev 6:9-11 NIV, then God is a liar and is not protecting them Rev 3:10 NIV.amani said:I never said the rapture comes first before anything.... I said it comes last.
Also I disagreed with ATP.
But if the hour of trial is being beheaded, then God is a liar Rev 3:10.Marcus O'Reillius said:God is not a liar. If He watches out for you, even if you die, you'll live forever with Him.
After the Great a Tribulation, the Great Multitude arrive in Heaven. God saves, He does not lose (us).
The word "airó" means to raise, take up, lift. Why would sinners be raised up when they're killed by fire?? That doesn't make sense. Where does scripture prove posttrib?amani said:Hi ATP.
Forgive me, I only read the first posts.
You ask "(sinners) Taken away by what?"
Answer: By fire.
I don't think the context of 2nd Thessalonians 3 could fit a rapture.
But I might check the word used later.
And... Yes, the elect are taken away last, (after everything visible is gone).
God will protect his elect.