2 Thessalonians 2:3 Great Falling Away

[whirlwind]

.

Hello Whirlwind,what I'm referring to is the next time true tongues will be spoken,this is not happening now....


Mark 13:11 "But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost [Spirit]."

When this time comes into being in the very near future, it will not be the elect of God that does the speaking, but the Holy Spirit speaking in and through the mouths of His elect. Every one of these individuals will be delivered before these false councils before the final day of this earth age. This is why Peter would say to the people in Acts 2, on Pentecost day; "This is that which was spoken of by Joel the Prophet."

I agree that it is the Holy Spirit speaking through the elect but it is the voice of the elect that speak what He reveals.



John 16:12-14 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify Me: for he shall receive of Mine, and shall shew it unto you.



We are now delivered before false councils, false teachers....each day in our walk. The Spirit of truth is in us...is us....as we speak His Words which are truth. The Holy Spirit reveals the deeper mysteries to the elect and we in turn speak what we are shown. We glorify Him as we receive His Words and show it to others.


Matthew 10:17-22 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues; And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for My sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles. But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you. And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death. And ye shall be hated of all men for My name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.



There are always more cities,(more forums, more churches, more study groups) for us to flee to before He returns.

Acts 2:16: "But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;"
We can read this prophecy in Joel 2:28-32. These sons and daughters shall speak in a cloven tongue, as recorded in Acts 2:6; meaning that the language that they shall speak in will need no interpreter, for every one that hears will hear in their native tongue of the dialect of the neighborhood they grew up in. This is the way that the gospel will go forth in the last days, for it is the evidence of the presence of the Holy Spirit. These sons and daughters will speak, as stated in Mark 13:11, but whatsoever words they do speak in that hour, it will be the Holy Spirit that speaks through them.

Acts 2:17"And it shall come to pass in the last days,' saith God, `I will pour out of My Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and you old men shall dream dreams:"

Acts 2:18 "And on My servants and on My handmaidens I will pour out in those days of My Spirit; and they shall prophesy:"

Acts 2:19 "And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:"

Acts 2:20 "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:"

Acts 2:21 "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.' "
When the sons and daughter speak, it will be heard in every language and dialect in the world. This will not come from the mind of those people, but those people shall be willing witnesses that allow God to speak directly through them to the people. Thus the true gospel of Christ will be spoken. These trials will be made public to the world, and it will be as the two churches of Revelation 2:9; and 3:9 taught, and it is important that you know exactly what they did teach.

The trials are already public as we debate on forums. Our Words are already heard in many languages as we debate on forums...we now willingly witness .

Those churches of Smyrna and Philadelphia taught about the synagogue of Satan, about those that claimed to be of God, of Judah, but lied and were not. These churches taught how you would know and identify who the Kenites were. Those Kenites claimed to be of Judah [Jews] but were a bunch of liars, who in fact were nothing more than the sons and daughters of Satan. They were members of the synagogue of Satan, they are the Kenites that are taking over the entire religious community, and it is time to wake up. We will be delivered up into their synagogues and tried before them. This is part of God's plan, whereby God can speak through you by the Holy Spirit.

http://www.theseason...mark/mark13.htm

I very much agree about the Kenites and who they are. We face some today but it isn't necessary to go to a literal synagogue....rather it is wherever the body of Christ is found...they are among us.

 

[n2thelight]

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I agree that it is the Holy Spirit speaking through the elect but it is the voice of the elect that speak what He reveals.



John 16:12-14 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify Me: for he shall receive of Mine, and shall shew it unto you.



We are now delivered before false councils, false teachers....each day in our walk. The Spirit of truth is in us...is us....as we speak His Words which are truth. The Holy Spirit reveals the deeper mysteries to the elect and we in turn speak what we are shown. We glorify Him as we receive His Words and show it to others.


Matthew 10:17-22 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues; And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for My sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles. But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you. And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death. And ye shall be hated of all men for My name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.



There are always more cities,(more forums, more churches, more study groups) for us to flee to before He returns.






The trials are already public as we debate on forums. Our Words are already heard in many languages as we debate on forums...we now willingly witness .






I very much agree about the Kenites and who they are. We face some today but it isn't necessary to go to a literal synagogue....rather it is wherever the body of Christ is found...they are among us.

I understand what you are saying,but when the hour of temptation comes,though Ive never spoken another language,when the Holy Spirit speaks through me it will be heard in every language of the world,also it will not happen until satan is here pretending to be Christ.....

 

[Vengle]

Hello Whirlwind,what I'm referring to is the next time true tongues will be spoken,this is not happening now....


Mark 13:11 "But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost [Spirit]."

When this time comes into being in the very near future, it will not be the elect of God that does the speaking, but the Holy Spirit speaking in and through the mouths of His elect. Every one of these individuals will be delivered before these false councils before the final day of this earth age. This is why Peter would say to the people in Acts 2, on Pentecost day; "This is that which was spoken of by Joel the Prophet."

Acts 2:16: "But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;"
We can read this prophecy in Joel 2:28-32. These sons and daughters shall speak in a cloven tongue, as recorded in Acts 2:6; meaning that the language that they shall speak in will need no interpreter, for every one that hears will hear in their native tongue of the dialect of the neighborhood they grew up in. This is the way that the gospel will go forth in the last days, for it is the evidence of the presence of the Holy Spirit. These sons and daughters will speak, as stated in Mark 13:11, but whatsoever words they do speak in that hour, it will be the Holy Spirit that speaks through them.

Acts 2:17"And it shall come to pass in the last days,' saith God, `I will pour out of My Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and you old men shall dream dreams:"

Acts 2:18 "And on My servants and on My handmaidens I will pour out in those days of My Spirit; and they shall prophesy:"

Acts 2:19 "And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:"

Acts 2:20 "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:"

Acts 2:21 "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.' "
When the sons and daughter speak, it will be heard in every language and dialect in the world. This will not come from the mind of those people, but those people shall be willing witnesses that allow God to speak directly through them to the people. Thus the true gospel of Christ will be spoken. These trials will be made public to the world, and it will be as the two churches of Revelation 2:9; and 3:9 taught, and it is important that you know exactly what they did teach.

Those churches of Smyrna and Philadelphia taught about the synagogue of Satan, about those that claimed to be of God, of Judah, but lied and were not. These churches taught how you would know and identify who the Kenites were. Those Kenites claimed to be of Judah [Jews] but were a bunch of liars, who in fact were nothing more than the sons and daughters of Satan. They were members of the synagogue of Satan, they are the Kenites that are taking over the entire religious community, and it is time to wake up. We will be delivered up into their synagogues and tried before them. This is part of God's plan, whereby God can speak through you by the Holy Spirit.

http://www.theseason...mark/mark13.htm

I commend the effort you have obviously put in to that understanding, but what say we fine tune it?

2 Corinthians 6:2 "(For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)"

Much of what you speak of was and is yet and has been being fulfilled TODAY as in "now is the day of salvation".

It began at Pentecost 3 and 1/2 years after the death of Jesus and continued ever since. We are yet in that same day of salvation.

Speaking of this progressive "day of salvation", Jesus said, John 12:31 "Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out." The casting out of the devil is progressively taking place in this earth among true Christians.

Understanding this also helps us understand the following better:

Hebrews 4:1 ¶Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 ¶Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

 

[lawrance]

I think the great falling away has started as when you Government or leader just openly saying that they do not believe in God and the state school's openly bag Christ every where and we have people angry as hell that anyone dare even bring the subject up about Jesus Christ and start on with the brain dead, it's the cause of all wars rubbish etc etc. and then push as hard as they can to force feed you that their diabolical socialist cancer as your salvation and that you better believe it !
As we know down the track it will be very much like Nazi Germany but for one major difference, total utter incompetence pond life running the show.

 

[Prentis]

The falling away, I think, has to do with falling from true faith to a false form of faith.

It is not that almost none will 'believe in Jesus' when he comes back'. The question is 'will Christ find anyone walking by faith?'

We are to walk in this faith, and the falling away is a falling away of true communion with the Lord and with the brethren, rather than a falling away from considering and calling ourselves christian, which means nothing if we are not walking in this.

 

[whirlwind]

It was there then and visible to be seen: 2 Thessalonians 2:7 "For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way."

This is the man of sin seen then: Acts 20:28 "Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears."

This is from where the man of sin comes: 1 Corinthians 3:1 "And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
5 ¶Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?"

The man of sin can be accurately described as the flesh body of Adam standing up in the church trying to win control through popularity feel good preaching. And thus it is becomes as a false body of Christ.

So, if I am understanding you correctly....you see the "man of sin," the "son of perdition," as many and not one entity?


So do I!

 

[veteran]

Most of the Churches today that are busy preaching the great falling away of 2 Thess.2 began back in history also deny a singular antichrist false messiah is coming to work great signs and wonders on this earth to deceive. Those are following the Preterist doctrines of men, and not God's Word as written.

The one working great signs and wonders that Paul spoke of is the same one that is to work those signs and wonders per Rev.13:11 forward, which is the "another beast" who will setup the 'image of the beast' idol for the world to bow in false worship to. Until that specific false messiah shows up doing those miracles in the sight of men, the height of the great apostasy is not yet. Those not seeing this are already in his snare.

 

[whirlwind]

Most of the Churches today that are busy preaching the great falling away of 2 Thess.2 began back in history also deny a singular antichrist false messiah is coming to work great signs and wonders on this earth to deceive. Those are following the Preterist doctrines of men, and not God's Word as written.

The one working great signs and wonders that Paul spoke of is the same one that is to work those signs and wonders per Rev.13:11 forward, which is the "another beast" who will setup the 'image of the beast' idol for the world to bow in false worship to. Until that specific false messiah shows up doing those miracles in the sight of men, the height of the great apostasy is not yet. Those not seeing this are already in his snare.

Are you certain the antichrist and false messiah are one and the same? Or...one or the same?



.

 

[veteran]

Are you certain the antichrist and false messiah are one and the same? Or...one or the same?

Yes, I'm sure. And so should anyone in Christ Jesus be today, because for centuries Christ's Church has been looking for that specific false one to come, and he didn't, but only patterns happened. But now, today, all the prophecy is aligned to happen exactly as written line upon line. Thus we find that warning is going to be a reality for us today, because we are in the last generation when the Church in past generations were not. So there's no excuse for men to dream up a replacement theology to say Scripture is not meaning a singular Antichrist just because the early Church missed with who they thought was the Antichrist in their days.

 

[whirlwind]

Yes, I'm sure. And so should anyone in Christ Jesus be today, because for centuries Christ's Church has been looking for that specific false one to come, and he didn't, but only patterns happened. But now, today, all the prophecy is aligned to happen exactly as written line upon line. Thus we find that warning is going to be a reality for us today, because we are in the last generation when the Church in past generations were not. So there's no excuse for men to dream up a replacement theology to say Scripture is not meaning a singular Antichrist just because the early Church missed with who they thought was the Antichrist in their days.

I used to be sure but....no longer.

Will there be a "specific false one?" Yes, I believe Scripture teaches that but is that one the antichrist? Rather I see the false one as the one who comes after "the working."


2 Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,



.

 

[Vengle]

So, if I am understanding you correctly....you see the "man of sin," the "son of perdition," as many and not one entity?


So do I!

I see him as a false body of Christ which walks in this world right in among the true body.

That is why I keep emphasizing that true church of Christ is the temple he stands up in:

Ephesians 2:19 "Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit."


Re visit and ponder my post #19


That Babylon the Great which you have correctly identified is that false body of Christ.

She has gone for a long time intermingled with those of the true church. That is why there are true believers in her to be called out of her.

In this last hour she has grown to appear to be the complete church of Christ. But the reality is that old Satan has no power to destroy the true temple of Christ as he is trying by her to do. The true bride of Christ is able to pick up and walk away from that drunken whore.

 

[veteran]

I used to be sure but....no longer.

Will there be a "specific false one?" Yes, I believe Scripture teaches that but is that one the antichrist? Rather I see the false one as the one who comes after "the working."


2 Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
.

Revelation 19 speaks of three, the dragon, the false prophet, and the beast, and only the false prophet and beast go into the lake of fire at the START of Christ's Millennium reign. So what does that tell us?

That beast and false prophet represent the working for the tribulation. That's why their working ends with Christ's coming by their going into the lake of fire. The dragon represents Satan (Rev.12:9), as he is only locked in the pit for the thousand years to be released once more at the end of it.


Rev 16:13-14
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
(KJV)

The dragon is shown to be the "another beast" that is to work great signs and miracles upon the earth in the sight of men per Rev.13:11 forward. That one also equates with the one Jesus warned of in Matt.24:23-26 concerning the one who places the abomination that makes desolate to begin idol worship in Jerusalem. He's also the one Paul was speaking of in 2 Thess.2:3-4 that will sit in the temple of God, to show himself that he is God. That is the specific role of a false messiah, a pseudo Christ, putting himself in place of Christ to be worshipped as God. That will be the real Antichrist (which also means 'in place of Christ' per the Greek, not just the idea of against).


Rev 19:20
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
(KJV)

It's kind of like an unholy trinity. In that verse, it's pointing to the false prophet that works the miracles and deception. For this reason, I see the false prophet as an office or role joined with the dragon. And it may involve a false prophet coming to deceive with an attempted Elijah office.

The prophecy, when put together from Daniel, our Lord's Olivet Discourse, Paul's warnings of "another Jesus" and that Wicked one, and our Lord's Revelation, reveals another temple built in Jerusalem with sacrifices in place, and then the Antichrist/false messiah or dragon coming to end the sacrifices and setup idol worship with the "image of the beast". The setting up of another temple to begin sacrifices in prep for the later coming false messiah may involve the work of the false prophet.

 

[veteran]

The temple Paul spoke of in 2 Thess.2 is not the spiritual temple of Christ's many-membered body.

The reason is because the true temple of Christ's Body per Ephesians 2:19-22 is made of the foundation of the Apostles and prophets, our Lord Jesus Himself being the Chief Cornerstone. That Temple of Christ CANNOT be corrupted by a false one. The reason is because an apostate to Christ is 'cut off' from it if they become an apostate away from Him, instead of His Church being allowed to be corrupted by a false one.

Trying to treat the temple the false one of 2 Thess.2 sits in as Christ's spiritual Temple is just another idea from Satan designed to get people off the idea of a false one coming to sit in a Jerusalem temple for the end, with the placing of an idol abomination.

 

[Vengle]

The temple Paul spoke of in 2 Thess.2 is not the spiritual temple of Christ's many-membered body.

The reason is because the true temple of Christ's Body per Ephesians 2:19-22 is made of the foundation of the Apostles and prophets, our Lord Jesus Himself being the Chief Cornerstone. That Temple of Christ CANNOT be corrupted by a false one. The reason is because an apostate to Christ is 'cut off' from it if they become an apostate away from Him, instead of His Church being allowed to be corrupted by a false one.

Trying to treat the temple the false one of 2 Thess.2 sits in as Christ's spiritual Temple is just another idea from Satan designed to get people off the idea of a false one coming to sit in a Jerusalem temple for the end, with the placing of an idol abomination.

You make a good argument for what I said.

You just don't realize it.

She has gone for a long time intermingled with those of the true church. That is why there are true believers in her to be called out of her.

In this last hour she has grown to appear to be the complete church of Christ. But the reality is that old Satan has no power to destroy the true temple of Christ as he is trying by her to do. The true bride of Christ is able to pick up and walk away from that drunken whore.

From where did you come?

What foundation does the Catholic church claim?

What foundation do all of the churches claim?

And though they went out from among them are not they all bound together today as a thing called Christendom?

Revelation 17:5 "And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH."

Does she claim to be the body of Christ or not?

In saying (Revelation 18:2) "Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird."

Doesn't "is fallen, is fallen" mean that at one time she stood strong but not anymore?

Doesn't the rest of that verse mean that the people in her now carry on all sorts of unclean practices?

Has it never occurred to you that the problem is that you are looking to the future and you should be looking back to when it all happened?

This mess we have today of tangled beliefs does not tell you that that great delusion has already occurred?

 

[veteran]

You make a good argument for what I said.

You just don't realize it.

Which would mean what? It would mean you agree the temple Paul spoke of in 2 Thess.2 is about a physical temple built again in Jerusalem by the unbelieving Jews. And so it will be, one for the coming false messiah to sit in.

Like Jesus said to the unbelieving Jews...

John 5:43
43 I am come in My Father's name, and ye receive Me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
(KJV)

And so that false messiah is prepared for those who believe not on Christ Jesus.

 

[Vengle]

First think about what I have already said.

There is enough there that explains it if you want to give it a chance.

 

[whirlwind]

Revelation 19 speaks of three, the dragon, the false prophet, and the beast, and only the false prophet and beast go into the lake of fire at the START of Christ's Millennium reign. So what does that tell us?

That beast and false prophet represent the working for the tribulation. That's why their working ends with Christ's coming by their going into the lake of fire. The dragon represents Satan (Rev.12:9), as he is only locked in the pit for the thousand years to be released once more at the end of it.


Rev 16:13-14
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
(KJV)

I believe that the battle has been ongoing for millennia...and will culminate at His appearance. Armageddon is spiritual in nature, good against evil, God vs. the Devil. The spirits of devils, etc. have been influencing the whole world and consequently many good men have fallen to their deception. They/we must fall away from the deception, from their influence first, revealing the man of sin within us. We are either sons of God or sons of perdition. Then, once we have fallen away, revealing our old man, our carnal nature, our holier than thou ego sitting in the temple of God, showing ourselves as being of the body of Christ....can he be destroyed.....

2 Thessalonians 2:3-6 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.


Our own egos "witholdeth" the truth of the son of perdition within us.


2:7-10 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

It is we ourselves that "let" him deceive us and that old man must be "taken out of the way," in order to reveal the wickedness within us. Once we reveal him then the Lord consumes him with His truth. Christ indwells us and there is no room for the son of perdition....we fall away from sin into the arms of Christ. The works of the devil are destroyed.....

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

The dragon is shown to be the "another beast" that is to work great signs and miracles upon the earth in the sight of men per Rev.13:11 forward. That one also equates with the one Jesus warned of in Matt.24:23-26 concerning the one who places the abomination that makes desolate to begin idol worship in Jerusalem. He's also the one Paul was speaking of in 2 Thess.2:3-4 that will sit in the temple of God, to show himself that he is God. That is the specific role of a false messiah, a pseudo Christ, putting himself in place of Christ to be worshipped as God. That will be the real Antichrist (which also means 'in place of Christ' per the Greek, not just the idea of against).

When we truly find salvation and follow Him then He dwells in us, walks in us. We are One. We are the temple of God.

2 Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.


The antichrist, as you have rightly stated is...instead of Christ. Would not those believing or pretending themselves to be the body of Christ be...the instead of Christ in the temple of God? Would they not be those He "never knew?"


Matthew 7:22-23 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Rev 19:20
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
(KJV)

The beast speaks of many. The false prophet, I believe, also speaks of many.....

Jeremiah 14:14-15 Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart. Therefore thus saith the LORD concerning the prophets that prophesy in my name, and I sent them not, yet they say, Sword and famine shall not be in this land; By sword and famine shall those prophets be consumed.

Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

False Christs are....antichrists.

It's kind of like an unholy trinity. In that verse, it's pointing to the false prophet that works the miracles and deception. For this reason, I see the false prophet as an office or role joined with the dragon. And it may involve a false prophet coming to deceive with an attempted Elijah office.

The prophecy, when put together from Daniel, our Lord's Olivet Discourse, Paul's warnings of "another Jesus" and that Wicked one, and our Lord's Revelation, reveals another temple built in Jerusalem with sacrifices in place, and then the Antichrist/false messiah or dragon coming to end the sacrifices and setup idol worship with the "image of the beast". The setting up of another temple to begin sacrifices in prep for the later coming false messiah may involve the work of the false prophet.

I see the antichrist as many instead-of-christs or...false prophets, false christs. I see the false messiah as Satan who comes after the working of those that have not fallen away from him, those still allowing his spirit to guide them...even unknowingly.



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The temple Paul spoke of in 2 Thess.2 is not the spiritual temple of Christ's many-membered body.

The reason is because the true temple of Christ's Body per Ephesians 2:19-22 is made of the foundation of the Apostles and prophets, our Lord Jesus Himself being the Chief Cornerstone. That Temple of Christ CANNOT be corrupted by a false one. The reason is because an apostate to Christ is 'cut off' from it if they become an apostate away from Him, instead of His Church being allowed to be corrupted by a false one.

Trying to treat the temple the false one of 2 Thess.2 sits in as Christ's spiritual Temple is just another idea from Satan designed to get people off the idea of a false one coming to sit in a Jerusalem temple for the end, with the placing of an idol abomination.

I believe they are one and the same. Many are of the temple today but won't be at His arrival. Case in point....the foolish virgins. They loved Christ but not enough to search for truth.



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[Vengle]

I believe that the battle has been ongoing for millennia...and will culminate at His appearance. Armageddon is spiritual in nature, good against evil, God vs. the Devil. The spirits of devils, etc. have been influencing the whole world and consequently many good men have fallen to their deception. They/we must fall away from the deception, from their influence first, revealing the man of sin within us. We are either sons of God or sons of perdition. Then, once we have fallen away, revealing our old man, our carnal nature, our holier than thou ego sitting in the temple of God, showing ourselves as being of the body of Christ....can he be destroyed.....

2 Thessalonians 2:3-6 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.


Our own egos "witholdeth" the truth of the son of perdition within us.


2:7-10 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

It is we ourselves that "let" him deceive us and that old man must be "taken out of the way," in order to reveal the wickedness within us. Once we reveal him then the Lord consumes him with His truth. Christ indwells us and there is no room for the son of perdition....we fall away from sin into the arms of Christ. The works of the devil are destroyed.....

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.










When we truly find salvation and follow Him then He dwells in us, walks in us. We are One. We are the temple of God.

2 Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.


The antichrist, as you have rightly stated is...instead of Christ. Would not those believing or pretending themselves to be the body of Christ be...the instead of Christ in the temple of God? Would they not be those He "never knew?"


Matthew 7:22-23 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.








The beast speaks of many. The false prophet, I believe, also speaks of many.....

Jeremiah 14:14-15 Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart. Therefore thus saith the LORD concerning the prophets that prophesy in my name, and I sent them not, yet they say, Sword and famine shall not be in this land; By sword and famine shall those prophets be consumed.

Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

False Christs are....antichrists.









I see the antichrist as many instead-of-christs or...false prophets, false christs. I see the false messiah as Satan who comes after the working of those that have not fallen away from him, those still allowing his spirit to guide them...even unknowingly.



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I believe they are one and the same. Many are of the temple today but won't be at His arrival. Case in point....the foolish virgins. They loved Christ but not enough to search for truth.



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Yes.

Yahweh is not just stomping his feet in a fit of rage in this earth.

He is calmly working out our entanglement that he might save us.

He lets us go our own chosen way only when we see and choose of our own volition not to comply, or when he sees that we of our own volition choose not to see.

 

[veteran]

I believe that the battle has been ongoing for millennia...and will culminate at His appearance. Armageddon is spiritual in nature, good against evil, God vs. the Devil. The spirits of devils, etc. have been influencing the whole world and consequently many good men have fallen to their deception. They/we must fall away from the deception, from their influence first, revealing the man of sin within us. We are either sons of God or sons of perdition. Then, once we have fallen away, revealing our old man, our carnal nature, our holier than thou ego sitting in the temple of God, showing ourselves as being of the body of Christ....can he be destroyed.....

....
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Eventually, everyone is going to understand how the one-world system beast being formed up today is simply another attempt by Satan to literally rule over all nations and peoples on the earth, in place of Christ Jesus; meaning, it's the same thing Satan did when he first rebelled against God in the time of old. Per Rev.12:3-4 we are shown Satan used a beast world system of ten horns, seven heads, but only seven crowns to do that of old when he first rebelled against God. The one today is to have ten crowns instead.

 

[whirlwind]

Eventually, everyone is going to understand how the one-world system beast being formed up today is simply another attempt by Satan to literally rule over all nations and peoples on the earth, in place of Christ Jesus; meaning, it's the same thing Satan did when he first rebelled against God in the time of old. Per Rev.12:3-4 we are shown Satan used a beast world system of ten horns, seven heads, but only seven crowns to do that of old when he first rebelled against God. The one today is to have ten crowns instead.

That is a very interesting thought Veteran. I don't yet know if I agree or disagree but do want to spend time looking into it.


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