23 major reasons to reject the Premil doctrine!

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WPM

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That is your personal opinionated spin.

There are 3 parts to the order:

The Cross and the OT firstfruits. The entire OT body was presented to God.

The Second Coming. The entire church is glorified and presented to God.

Then comes the end. All creation is presented to God.

If you cannot see the time between the Cross and the Second Coming, you are blind to Paul's order.

You are definitely blind to the time between the Second Coming and the end. If you cannot see the time between the Cross and the Second Coming, how can you call the time between the Second Coming and the end the same length as between the Cross and the Second Coming. It has been 1992 years. There will be a 1,000 year period between the middle presentation and the final presentation. We know both lengths of time so far. They are not equal to each other.

Daniel says:

"And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished. And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand."

Times, time, and half of time will be understood at the end. Not the end of time. The end of the prophecy. John gives us the time as 1,000 years. Twice that is 2,000 years. Half of that is 500 years. There was 500 years between Daniel and the Cross. You all try to force 490 years into 500. 483 fits as easy as 490.

It has been 1992.5 years since the Cross.

That is how we know the time is 1,000. Since the total is 3500 years, and we are almost to 2500 years, there is 1,000 years left in the equation. The Second Coming is not in another 1,000 years as you try to teach, as you claim the 1,000 is also part of the 2,000. Or is the 2,000 with your fuzzy math, as you think the end is soon. You have shrunk Daniel's time down from 3500 to 2500.

You, having no answer for this explicit passage, desperately attempt to explain it away by making much of the term “the firstfruits,” arguing that it refers solely to the event of the Lord’s resurrection rather than to what it eternally made Him. They distort such in order to blur the fact that “the end” doesn’t really mean the end. However, Christ was the firstfruits at the resurrection; Christ is the firstfruits reigning now and He will be the firstfruits at His glorious Second Advent, Christ is in reality the eternal firstfruits. 1 Corinthians 15:20 says, “Now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.”

In the reference here to “firstfruits,” Paul is essentially stating a present truth. He is stating how Christ is currently “the firstfruits,” rather than merely was or will be. The reference here to “the firstfruits” therefore is simply made in the context of what Christ is today rather than describing the actual resurrection event that occurred years before Paul wrote this Epistle. That’s why Paul could assuredly write, many years after Christ’s physical resurrection, “NOW is Christ risen from the dead, and BECOME the firstfruits of them that slept.” Paul was simply testifying of the current reality that Christ has “now” become the firstfruits of them that sleep.

What this passage is basically saying is that Christ is “the firstfruits” of His elect at the second coming. Christ was the firstfruits at the resurrection; Christ is the firstfruits reigning now and He will be the firstfruits at His glorious Second Advent, He is the eternal firstfruits. Notwithstanding, the whole focus of this passage is the second coming and the all-consummating nature of that event. This tells us that we will all rise at the second coming, but that Christ is “the firstfruits. In essence: the parousia, then the end.
 

Timtofly

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You, having no answer for this explicit passage, desperately attempt to explain it away by making much of the term “the firstfruits,” arguing that it refers solely to the event of the Lord’s resurrection rather than to what it eternally made Him. They distort such in order to blur the fact that “the end” doesn’t really mean the end. However, Christ was the firstfruits at the resurrection; Christ is the firstfruits reigning now and He will be the firstfruits at His glorious Second Advent, Christ is in reality the eternal firstfruits. 1 Corinthians 15:20 says, “Now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.”

In the reference here to “firstfruits,” Paul is essentially stating a present truth. He is stating how Christ is currently “the firstfruits,” rather than merely was or will be. The reference here to “the firstfruits” therefore is simply made in the context of what Christ is today rather than describing the actual resurrection event that occurred years before Paul wrote this Epistle. That’s why Paul could assuredly write, many years after Christ’s physical resurrection, “NOW is Christ risen from the dead, and BECOME the firstfruits of them that slept.” Paul was simply testifying of the current reality that Christ has “now” become the firstfruits of them that sleep.

What this passage is basically saying is that Christ is “the firstfruits” of His elect at the second coming. Christ was the firstfruits at the resurrection; Christ is the firstfruits reigning now and He will be the firstfruits at His glorious Second Advent, He is the eternal firstfruits. Notwithstanding, the whole focus of this passage is the second coming and the all-consummating nature of that event. This tells us that we will all rise at the second coming, but that Christ is “the firstfruits. In essence: the parousia, then the end.
This post of yours clearly indicates that Jesus was the only human who needed salvation.

Do you not understand Paul's point:

"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order"

This does not say Jesus was the only benefit needing salvation. It says every man. Every man is the firstfruits.

All you see is Jesus as the only recipient of the Atonement.

Paul saw the OT redeemed as the firstfruits. Those alive at the Second Coming, and the end after Jesus rules and subjects creation to Himself. Those humans living in the 1,000 year reign.

You literally remove all humans from Paul's point, and see only Jesus as the one redeemed from Adam's death.

The focus of the chapter is being raised out of Adam's dead corruptible flesh.
 

Keraz

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• Satan is powerless to do what he wants to do.
Firstly I have reported your for accusing me of being unchristian.

Satan has much power, 1 Peter 5:8-9, describes it very well.
• He is powerless to stop the Church of Jesus Christ spreading the good news of Gospel throughout the nations.
Many countries, including Israel; do not allow evangelizing.
• He is powerless to stop someone coming to Christ.
Satan has diverted countless numbers of people from becoming Christians. Sadly; some of my own family.
He is powerless to stop a man or woman of God walking in the will of God.
He does a pretty good job on this, too! Personally, I tread carefully, the narrow path is easy to stray off.
• He is powerless to harm a believer without God’s permission.
Obviously God has given Satan that permission. God has allowed His people to be martyred in the millions.
• He is powerless to resist a Spirit-filled believer implementing delegated authority from on high against the devil and his demons.
• He is powerless to affect the final outcome of this great battle between the kingdom of God and the kingdom of darkness.
These I agree with. The final outcome will be God's victory and Eternity with God for those who have proved themselves worthy.
That will happen a thousand years after Jesus Returns; The final test for mankind. Revelation 20:7-10
 

WPM

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Firstly I have reported your for accusing me of being unchristian.

Satan has much power, 1 Peter 5:8-9, describes it very well.

Many countries, including Israel; do not allow evangelizing.

Satan has diverted countless numbers of people from becoming Christians. Sadly; some of my own family.

He does a pretty good job on this, too! Personally, I tread carefully, the narrow path is easy to stray off.

Obviously God has given Satan that permission. God has allowed His people to be martyred in the millions.

These I agree with. The final outcome will be God's victory and Eternity with God for those who have proved themselves worthy.
That will happen a thousand years after Jesus Returns; The final test for mankind. Revelation 20:7-10

Complain all you want about me calling out your mocking of the kingship of Jesus. It is reprehensible. I stand over it! I suspect few Christians are going to support that!

It speaks volumes about your theology that your are content to mock the exalted position of Christ at the right hand of majesty on high, yet, are passionate to exalt the power of Satan and his demons. That speaks volumes for your theology!

Premil portrays a BIG devil and a small god, Amil has a small devil and a BIG God. In Premil, Satan seems sovereign in this age and God is curtailed. Premils are always lauding the ability of Satan since the cross. In Amil, Christ is sovereign and Satan is curtailed. Amils are always lauding the ability of Christ since the cross. As a consequence, Premil portrays an impotent beat-down New Testament Church, whereas Amil sees a victorious potent New Testament Church invading the nations with the good news of Christ and subjugating the powers of darkness as they do so. In Amil Christ reigns over all creation as God and His new creation as Saviour.
 
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WPM

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Will somebody tell this to Putin? To Irans crazy mullahs? To all the people who abuse their positions of power now and in the past>

But I realize you cannot now change your beliefs. Only as things happen, will you and all the deceived and confused people finally see and understand the truths of the Prophetic Word. Psalms 94:8, Isaiah 35:4-5, Isaiah 29:24

Your biggest enemy is the Word of God, which you refuse to quote. You place plenty of references but fail to quote because the inspired text forbids your error.
 
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Keraz

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Any response to the above rants, is to descend to that level of bitter and twisted accusation.
World events will soon show the truth of what God has planned for our future.
 

WPM

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Any response to the above rants, is to descend to that level of bitter and twisted accusation.
World events will soon show the truth of what God has planned for our future.

Please address the Op instead of avoiding the biblical evidence.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Context,
Revelation 19:11-21 describes His glorious Return to the earth. Confirmed by Acts 1:11
Neither Revelation 19:11-21 nor Acts 1:11 say anything about Jesus returning to the earth. We will meet Him "in the air", not on the earth (1 Thess 4:14-17).
 

Spiritual Israelite

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I think it is most important we all corroborate bible truths with the NT. It shouldn't be a struggle to convincingly do that.
And Premils, of course, are completely unable to do that. Other than an erroneous literal and chronological reading of Revelation 19 and 20, Premil has ZERO support in the New Testament.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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When Jesus Returns, He has the Name of King of Kings and Lord of Lords. Revelation 19:16
If AMill's believe Jesus has been the King of Kings before His Return and all thru this age of nearly 2000 years, then provide proof of that incredible claim.
We have already done that many times. You are too blind to see it.

Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

Ephesians 1:19 and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is the same as the mighty strength 20 he exerted when he raised Christ from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, 21 far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. 22 And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, 23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.

Revelation 1:5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, 6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

Is it possible for Jesus to have "all authority in heaven and on earth", to be placed in a position "far above all rule and authority, power and dominion...in the present age" with "all things under his feet" and to be "the ruler of the kings of the earth" without being King of kings and Lord of lords? No, I don't believe so.

Jesus did say He would be with us Spiritually until the end of the age, Matthew 28:20, as our mentor and helper; NOT as the Ruler of the world.
Try to tell that to John who said in present tense:

Revelation 1:5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, 6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.
 
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WPM

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Hello,
This world is not our home, we are ambassadors on this earth, and Apostle Paul says "do not be conformed to this World" Romans 12:2.

Jesus preached the Kingdom of Heaven, and Jesus told Pilate that "His kingdom was not of this World" John 18:36

Acts 1:6 - The apostles asked Jesus if at this time will He restore the Kingdom to Israel.

Israel is an earthly Kingdom from its beginning, The predicted coming of the Messiah was interpreted to restore the earthly Kingdom and destroy Israel's enemies. Tribulation is an earthly tribulation, a time of Jacob's trouble, Jeremiah 30:7

The Body of Christ is a Heavenly Kingdom and the tribulation is an earthly event. The two do not mix. God's Grace cannot be connected to punishment of the earth. A removal of the Body of Christ must happen before tribulation.

Check the context. Jesus was talking a spiritual kingdom. He was talking about Pentecost. The disciples may have had a parochial earthly kingdom in mind, but Jesus blew that apart in his response.
 
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WPM

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Then you cannot use this chapter as a recap for the very same reason. There is no indication, according to your own argument the chapter has anything at all to do with a Second Coming. All Second Coming verses describe a physical Coming to earth.

Besides recap is human opinion, and not God's Word. You have to teach recap. There is literally no implication, nor interpretation of recap found in Revelation. There is no specific statement of recap in Revelation.

If recap was inherent in Scripture, you could prove it from Scripture. You have not. You cannot. It is your own taught human opinion.

Since recap is human opinion, you cannot logically deny chapter 20 is chronologically after 19. This denial is human opinion, and cannot be based in Scripture one iota. There is no end to creation in Revelation 19. The birds are literally still around eating the dead carcasses of humanity. There is no fiery climactic destruction described any where in Revelation 19. Revelation 19 cannot be your ultimate end of the current age.

Satan is still free and enjoying life in Revelation 19. You literally have nothing in Revelation 19 of Satan's demise. You do have Jesus Come to earth with thousands of redeemed. Satan still on earth. The wicked are dead and being eaten by the birds. No new creation. No end to the old creation. Amil have no wrap up in Revelation 19, and thus no end, but Jesus on the earth, victorious. You cannot prove an end without Revelation 20.

You voice a faulty opinion and then build a faulty opinion on top of that. That is insane hermeneutics.
 
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Timtofly

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You voice a faulty opinion and then build a faulty opinion on top of that. That is insane hermeneutics.
It is your faulty hermeneutic that calls for a recap. Why would I build on that faulty opinion? That is all you.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Check the context. Jesus was talking a spiritual kingdom. He was talking about Pentecost. The disciples may have had a parochial earthly kingdom in mind, but Jesus blew that apart in his response.
Yep. Premils always ignore Acts 1:8 when they reference Acts 1:6.
 

rockytopva

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One reason not to abandon Premillennialism...


Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. - Matthew 24:44
 

rockytopva

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Normal days until the flood!

But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark. - Matthew 24:37-38
 

rockytopva

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When it hit Noah... He was safe on the Ark!
When it will hit us... We will be safe in the arms of Jesus!
 

WPM

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Normal days until the flood!

But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark. - Matthew 24:37-38

Yes, this marked the destruction of the wicked. None survived. So will it be at the second coming. This exposes Premil.