Can a tare become saved?

[PinSeeker]

Faith in found the heart...

...saving faith, yes, and that is because the heart has been changed from stone to flesh.

, and there is no work found there.

Right, so, even if it's inadvertent, quit making faith out to be a work, because that's what you and all Arminians are guilty of.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Behold]

...saving faith, yes, and that is because the heart has been changed from stone to flesh.

"saving faith" is "the measure of faith".......that is innate, as Paul teaches,.......and it becomes "saving faith" when we give our measure of Faith to God, when we trust in Christ.

Faith is Trust.

Right, so, even if it's inadvertent, quit making faith out to be a work, because that's what you and all Arminians are guilty of.

I was not aware that The TULIP Crowd is that little group that wants to fight about "faith being a work" or not.
I run accross these people occasionally.
They live on a theological mental roller coaster and they can't ever get off.
Same as the TULIP bunch.


Faith is not a work..........its Trust
Trust is not a work. its a revelation that you have accepted as being true.
.Trust is in the heart.. its Faith.... Its a revelation knowledge that is accepted by faith.
Its the evidence of things Hoped for....
So, you can also say that Faith is Hope.......and Hope is not a work.

 

[PinSeeker]

"saving faith" is "the measure of faith".......that is innate, as Paul teaches,...

Innate to the heart-regenerate Christian. And again, that's because the heart has been changed from stone to flesh. By God.

....and it becomes "saving faith" when we give our measure of Faith to God, when we trust in Christ.

Which we will, when this faith is worked in our heart of flesh by God via His Holy Spirit... when we are assured and convicted... by God... by God's work in us.

I was not aware that The TULIP Crowd is that little group that wants to fight about "faith being a work" or not.

LOL! It's not a "fight," behold. But it certainly is an implication that Arminians at least inadvertently make, and it is wrong. But yeah, I don't doubt your lack of awareness of that at all.

Faith is not a work..........its Trust

It's not trust, it's assurance, according to the Bible itself. Hebrews 11:1 is very clear... "faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen." You're right that it's not a work, but that's what you at least inadvertently make it out to be, even by calling it a trust. The faith we have in us as Christians is not a work of man.

Its the evidence of things Hoped for....

No, "faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen." This is, verbatim, Hebrews 11:1. Who's changing Scripture, here, Behold? Certainly not me.

So, you can also say that Faith is Hope...

No, again, "faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen." This is ~ again, verbatim ~ Hebrews 11:1. Again, who's changing Scripture, here, Behold? Again, certainly not me.

....and Hope is not a work.

Actually, it is... we hope for a lot of things, being the free will beings that we are... <smile>

Hard to believe folks can be so hard-headed, but so it is, I guess... And round and round we go...

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Behold]

Innate to the heart-regenerate Christian. And again, that's because the heart has been changed from stone to flesh. By God.

Before God can give the new birth, He has to forgive the Believer's sin.
So, once you give Him your faith in Christ, He will forgive your sin.
The reason that Its our faith that is counted and not God's faith that He forced you to have so that he can count it as Crazy Calvinism teaches...., is because He is looking for Believers, not for people He will cause to believe.

Ive talked to so many Calvinists.....and the worst one's ....the most heretical are these.. :

They will tell you........I cant believe in Christ, so, God causes me to be born again FIRST, so that i can then give God the faith that He caused me to have, after i was born again first.

= Wow......the "fruit loops have arrived".

So, Have you ever heard a Calvinist run amok with that theological insanity?

= "I was born again to believe'.......they will proudly rant.

So, when i meet one of those, all i can do is realize that of all the Devil's Satanic "christian" Theologies...... Calvinism is one of His finest.
Top 2.

Catholicism
Calvinism

It's not a "fight," behold.

"Strife" is the literal definition of "fight" that you find on forums.
Now you know.
You'll find that on every Thread on every "christian" fourm, worldwide, that is designed to promote "Theology discussions", between different denominations and belief systems.

It's not trust, it's assurance,

There are millions of Christians who are born again, who have no assurance that they are going to heaven.
Some of them are on this forum.

Faith is not Assurance........as Assurance would be a fruit of Faith, .....subsequent to it.
Even you can figure this out.....i suppose.

See, we have "assurance of salvation", but not assurance of Faith.

We give God our Faith, and He gives us the assurance we can know its all true, because Jesus coming out of the Grave, is our assurance that our Faith in Christ is not wasted.

No, "faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen."

Your bible version is terrible.........and im assuming its a bible version, and not a commentary.


Listen,
Faith in our heart, is the EVIDENCE that we have believed.......not the assurance.

God gives assurance that the born again belong to Him, but He does not cause faith to appear in an unbelievers heart.

We get a heart of flesh, and that means one that can receive SEED....The Seed of the Word.... The Gospel., so that we can believe it.

 

[PinSeeker]

Before God can give the new birth, He has to forgive the Believer's sin.

Right...

So, once you give Him your faith in Christ, He will forgive your sin.

And there it is, making faith a work of man.

Your bible version is Trash.

All versions say the same thing... "assurance of..." "confidence in..." "substance of..." "things hoped for" and "evidence of..." "assurance of..." "conviction of..." "things not seen." Any of these, assurance, confidence, substance, conviction come from outside us, is given us. So to say my Bible version (which, you don't even know which one it is, but that matters not) is trash is itself a "trash" ~ absolutely meritless, and thus silly ~ statement.

C'mon. Think

Precisely what I'm trying to get you to do. It's not hard...

 

[Behold]

Right...


And there it is, making faith a work of man.

Calvinists eventually get to the dead end point, where if you ask them......>"Are you a Christian"...they'll say....>>"Yes, im a Calvinist".
And.....When they are beyond mental and spiritual recovery, they will say...."Calvinism is Christianity"..
So, do you see the Calvinism sickness in their mind, Reader?
God does, and He didnt put it there.

Are you there yet @PinSeeker ?

 

[Behold]

So the disciples were not Christians yet. Wow.

Christians are is found in these verses

"You must be born again"..

And ...

"He that hath not the Spirit of God, is none of God's.

Now, you can't be born again, and you can have the Spirit of God, until Jesus dies on The Cross.
So, any verse that is talking to or about apostles, and Jesus has not Died yet on the Cross, and has NOT risen from the dead yet, is talking to Apostles who are not "Christians" yet.

See, The Cross is where God offeres forgiveness, and without it, you can't become a Christian......including Apostles who were disciples.

Try to understand @PinSeeker , that you can be a disciple of Christ and not be a born again Christian.

 

[Brakelite]

But we are in a different covenant today, with a different mediator with better promises.
Jesus does not lose a single one that the Father has given to Him

All these examples show that as true.

John 6:37
All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.
John 6:39
This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
John 6:44
No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 10
7 Then Jesus said to them again, “Most assuredly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. 8 All who ever came [a]before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. 9 I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. 10 The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.

John 10

The Shepherd Knows His Sheep​

22 Now it was the Feast of Dedication in Jerusalem, and it was winter. 23 And Jesus walked in the temple, in Solomon’s porch. 24 Then the Jews surrounded Him and said to Him, “How long do You keep us in [d]doubt? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly.”

25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me. 26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, [e]as I said to you. 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”


John 18
4 Jesus therefore, knowing all things that would come upon Him, went forward and said to them, “Whom are you seeking?”

5 They answered Him, “Jesus [a]of Nazareth.”

Jesus said to them, “I am He.” And Judas, who betrayed Him, also stood with them. 6 Now when He said to them, “I am He,” they drew back and fell to the ground.

7 Then He asked them again, “Whom are you seeking?”

And they said, “Jesus of Nazareth.”

8 Jesus answered, “I have told you that I am He. Therefore, if you seek Me, let these go their way,” 9 that the saying might be fulfilled which He spoke, “Of those whom You gave Me I have lost none.”

10 Then Simon Peter, having a sword, drew it and struck the high priest’s servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant’s name was Malchus.

11 So Jesus said to Peter, “Put your sword into the sheath. Shall I not drink the cup which My Father has given Me?”

Does any of the above negate the choice of the Christian to walk away? For example, Jesus promises never to cast away anyone. That is encouraging. But does He override the choices mate by any? Once we become a Christian, do we lose the power of choice? Remember, 2Thess. 2:3 is within the framework of the new covenant where a formerly established true Roman church in Christ chose to embrace politics and later warfare and persecution as a means to carry the gospel to all the world. They chose to forsake Christ in favour of the kings and queens of this world. And they still do. They have divorced themselves from God, while no-one could advise Christ from casting them off. Otherwise, Antichrist is still a faithful member of the Christian body.